"Monsters"="Soul Monster": new information from Marco Beltrami leaves no room for doubt

[Sweersa]

Wouldn't it be great if after they officially release Monsters, that they later release a CD-era mix titled Soul Monster? Same with Hard Skool, vs Hardschool. Name the older mixes with Robin and Buckethead something that can differentiate them from the NITL versions. Even if it is on some bonus or digital download, it certainly would be welcomed by the hardcore fans, even if rough mixes. Minimal effort required. 

[Free Bird]

13 hours ago, Sweersa said:

Wouldn't it be great if after they officially release Monsters, that they later release a CD-era mix titled Soul Monster? Same with Hard Skool, vs Hardschool. Name the older mixes with Robin and Buckethead something that can differentiate them from the NITL versions. Even if it is on some bonus or digital download, it certainly would be welcomed by the hardcore fans, even if rough mixes. Minimal effort required. 

In opposition to those who think Axl is the only one who makes the decisions I believe as long as Duff and Slash are in GNR there won’t be song releases without their input.

 

[El Guapo]

25 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

In opposition to those who think Axl is the only one who makes the decisions I believe as long as Duff and Slash are in GNR there won’t be song releases without their input.

 

Of course not.

[Sweersa]

3 hours ago, Free Bird said:

In opposition to those who think Axl is the only one who makes the decisions I believe as long as Duff and Slash are in GNR there won’t be song releases without their input.

I think Axl, as a courtesy, may ask for some input, but I believe he's the ultimate shot caller. If Axl really wants Robin to stay on Zodiac when it's released, Robin will stay on Zodiac. If he likes Bucket's solo on Seven and wants it to stay, it will stay, etc. If they ever drop an album, of the 12+ songs, it would probably even be easier or smoother to include a few tracks with parts from older members intact, much like there was on the 2008 album, and we already have this to some extent with the NITL releases. 

[StrangerInThisTown]

31 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

I think Axl, as a courtesy, may ask for some input, but I believe he's the ultimate shot caller. If Axl really wants Robin to stay on Zodiac when it's released, Robin will stay on Zodiac. If he likes Bucket's solo on Seven and wants it to stay, it will stay, etc. If they ever drop an album, of the 12+ songs, it would probably even be easier or smoother to include a few tracks with parts from older members intact, much like there was on the 2008 album, and we already have this to some extent with the NITL releases. 

There won't be any lead guitar by anyone other than Slash or Fortus on new GNR songs. It is literally asinine to me to think you're gonna hear Buckethead soloing on new GNR releases while Slash is in the band. None of the Slash replacement dudes solos will stay on whatever they plan to release...that is an OLYMPIC LEVEL stretch. Don't set your own self up for disappointment like many like to do with this band.

[Free Bird]

58 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

I think Axl, as a courtesy, may ask for some input, but I believe he's the ultimate shot caller. If Axl really wants Robin to stay on Zodiac when it's released, Robin will stay on Zodiac. If he likes Bucket's solo on Seven and wants it to stay, it will stay, etc. If they ever drop an album, of the 12+ songs, it would probably even be easier or smoother to include a few tracks with parts from older members intact, much like there was on the 2008 album, and we already have this to some extent with the NITL releases. 

So you admit that Axl prefers Slash’s take on the released singles over Fincks, Bucketheads and Bumblefoots?

[gavgnr]

Somebody somewhere please just leak all the Chinese sessions recorded up to 2012. Probably safe to say nothing of substance was tracked later than that. 
 

It’s about time.

[Sweersa]

On 4/10/2024 at 3:31 PM, Free Bird said:

So you admit that Axl prefers Slash’s take on the released singles over Fincks, Bucketheads and Bumblefoots?

No. If I had to guess, he probably prefers the original solos. But, he respects them enough to give a little, even if it means sacrificing the overall quality of the song. Another example of this is Bumblefoot's solo on Riad, which is garbage IMO. 

On 4/10/2024 at 3:30 PM, StrangerInThisTown said:

There won't be any lead guitar by anyone other than Slash or Fortus on new GNR songs. It is literally asinine to me to think you're gonna hear Buckethead soloing on new GNR releases while Slash is in the band. None of the Slash replacement dudes solos will stay on whatever they plan to release...that is an OLYMPIC LEVEL stretch. Don't set your own self up for disappointment like many like to do with this band.

Why not? There already has been, we got two seconds of Robin on Perhaps, maybe even more. Bucket's kill switch intro to Silkworms was kept.

[Rovim]

9 hours ago, Sweersa said:

No. If I had to guess, he probably prefers the original solos. But, he respects them enough to give a little, even if it means sacrificing the overall quality of the song. Another example of this is Bumblefoot's solo on Riad, which is garbage IMO. 

Why not? There already has been, we got two seconds of Robin on Perhaps, maybe even more. Bucket's kill switch intro to Silkworms was kept.

a Bucket second here, 2 Robin seconds there is not the same as a full solo though. 

[jamillos]

It's not about respect or Axl's whims; it's about basic logic. The fans didn't wait for Slash to return for 20 years only to subsequently hear some replacement guys (sorry) playing the guitar on the new album. Makes no sense. 

[Rovim]

3 minutes ago, jamillos said:

It's not about respect or Axl's whims; it's about basic logic. The fans didn't wait for Slash to return for 20 years only to subsequently hear some replacement guys (sorry) playing the guitar on the new album. Makes no sense. 

Bumble said basically the same thing after Absurd got released with Slash's guitar. said he understood why Axl replaced his guitar with Slash's.

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, jamillos said:

It's not about respect or Axl's whims; it's about basic logic. The fans didn't wait for Slash to return for 20 years only to subsequently hear some replacement guys (sorry) playing the guitar on the new album. Makes no sense. 

What makes sense can differ depending on perspective. For Slash fans or fans of GN'R adhering to a certain sound, then it makes perfect sense to have Slash play the leads. For fans who simply prefer Buckethead or Robin Finck and want the GN'R music to sound as good as possible to them, it makes perfect sense to not want Slash added to these songs. It is all about perspective, there is no objective truth here. 

[Rovim]

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

What makes sense can differ depending on perspective. For Slash fans or fans of GN'R adhering to a certain sound, then it makes perfect sense to have Slash play the leads. For fans who simply prefer Buckethead or Robin Finck and want the GN'R music to sound as good as possible to them, it makes perfect sense to not want Slash added to these songs. It is all about perspective, there is no objective truth here. 

but are we just talking about what makes sense when it comes to what fans want or what we think will happen/what we guess Axl will go with when it comes to who's gonna play the vast majority of solos? most fans want Slash to do it.

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, Rovim said:

but are we just talking about what makes sense when it comes to what fans want or what we think will happen/what we guess Axl will go with when it comes to who's gonna play the vast majority of solos? most fans want Slash to do it.

I don't know what "we" are talking about. I just was responding to what jamillos wrote. Maybe I lost some context.

What Axl wants is already clear from the singles we have received: New songs released when Slash is touring with the band will feature Slash on lead. Maybe Axl thinks they sound better that way or are more "GN'R", maybe he sticks to his principle that members of the touring lineup should be featured on releases, or maybe he wants to oblige fans who crave Slash. Regardless, the outcome is still that when it came to releasing new music, they went back and picked some of the unreleased songs from the CD era and had Slash add his leads onto them. 

What will happen when they have run through these songs is anyone's guess. Maybe Axl will ask Slash to continue adding leads to old songs or maybe Axl will release them with Bucket/Paul/Robin/Bumble, or maybe Axl will take them to the grave with him.

[jamillos]

19 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

What makes sense can differ depending on perspective. For Slash fans or fans of GN'R adhering to a certain sound, then it makes perfect sense to have Slash play the leads. For fans who simply prefer Buckethead or Robin Finck and want the GN'R music to sound as good as possible to them, it makes perfect sense to not want Slash added to these songs. It is all about perspective, there is no objective truth here. 

Nope, I’m not talking about preferences, which obviously differ (younger folks may prefer the NuGuns era, because it was active in their teenage years etc., that’s understandable). I’m talking about basic logic, which is intertwined with the band’s legacy and history and songs. The valid argument as to what I mean is in my preceding post. I don't think it needs any further explanation. 

[SoulMonster]

6 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Nope, I’m not talking about preferences, which obviously differ (younger folks may prefer the NuGuns era, because it was active in their teenage years etc., that’s understandable). I’m talking about basic logic, which is intertwined with the band’s legacy and history and songs. The valid argument as to what I mean is in my preceding post. I don't think it needs any further explanation. 

But if you prefer Bucket then it is BASIC LOGIC to want him on the songs. What you are trying to do, is to devalue the opinions of people who prefers Bucket by trying to make an argument that that somehow isn't logical.

It is ONLY logical for Axl to replace old guitarists with Slash, if that is what he wants. Obviously, base don what has happened, Axl wanted thsi to happen for the songs released. So that is a moot point. 

[Rovim]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

But if you prefer Bucket then it is BASIC LOGIC to want him on the songs. What you are trying to do, is to devalue the opinions of people who prefers Bucket by trying to make an argument that that somehow isn't logical.

It is ONLY logical for Axl to replace old guitarists with Slash, if that is what he wants. Obviously, base don what has happened, Axl wanted thsi to happen for the songs released. So that is a moot point. 

just to be clear, I'm one of those fans who would love for a Bucket or Robin solo to make it, or to hear the original versions of the Chinese era tunes we don't have.

Slash is just a big and original part of the sound of the band, making it automatically sound more Gn'R so it would make sense to just let him redo it, since he's back in the band imo.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Rovim said:

just to be clear, I'm one of those fans who would love for a Bucket or Robin solo to make it, or to hear the original versions of the Chinese era tunes we don't have.

Slash is just a big and original part of the sound of the band, making it automatically sound more Gn'R so it would make sense to just let him redo it, since he's back in the band imo.

Yes, as I said, one of the reasons Axl decided to let Slash add parts could be that he wanted to make it sound more "GN'R." But it is only BASIC LOGIC if Axl wanted to make it sound more classical GN'R. My point is, the "logic" that jamillos talks about and want to make into a universal thing so that he can argue that some people are being illogical, isn't objective it follows from preferences. 

[Rovim]

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, as I said, one of the reasons Axl decided to let Slash add parts could be that he wanted to make it sound more "GN'R." But it is only BASIC LOGIC if Axl wanted to make it sound more classical GN'R. My point is, the "logic" that jamillos talks about and want to make into a universal thing so that he can argue that some people are being illogical, isn't objective it follows from preferences. 

I get what you're saying. It makes me think that Axl never wanted to replace Slash in the first place and that Gn'R fans never wanted Slash to be replaced. maybe that's why in my mind it makes sense that Axl decided to redo 5 tunes that we know of with Slash and Duff guitar and bass.

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I get what you're saying. It makes me think that Axl never wanted to replace Slash in the first place and that Gn'R fans never wanted Slash to be replaced. maybe that's why in my mind it makes sense that Axl decided to redo 5 tunes that we know of with Slash and Duff guitar and bass.

Yeah, maybe he even at one point wanted these songs to be with Slash on lead. Canter said Axl had a few songs where he would have liked Slash to add leads. Maybe it is these four we now have. 

My problem with Slash adding leads is mostly to do with how "soulless" the songs become after each iteration of redoing them. I am a strong proponent of more organic music making, when the band hash our their parts together, so that each part communicates with the others' parts, so it becomes actual interplay.  That was great on Appetite but to some extent lost on UYIs. And this was lost a long time ago with the CD era music, and I think it gets worse each time it happens again with these songs, and so for the most part, the songs we have got sounds "disjointed" to me. Like Slash is just haphazardly slapped onto them. Then of course, comes the fact that Slash isn't all that anymore. There is no guarantee that I would prefer his leads over Robin's, or Bucket's. I don't know. I hope we get to hear these songs in other versions, too, at some point. That Axl decides to release it all in some box set. That's my pipe dream.  But all this is just me complaining yet again, like I always do, all in all I am happy we just get to hear the songs.

[jamillos]

57 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

But if you prefer Bucket then it is BASIC LOGIC to want him on the songs. What you are trying to do, is to devalue the opinions of people who prefers Bucket by trying to make an argument that that somehow isn't logical.

It is ONLY logical for Axl to replace old guitarists with Slash, if that is what he wants. Obviously, base don what has happened, Axl wanted thsi to happen for the songs released. So that is a moot point. 

Again, nope. I think you’re only arguing for the sake of arguing. You’d know what I mean if you really wanted to look at things from the other one’s point of view. But ok, I’ll bite once again. In layman’s terms: we often talk about these "casuals", comprising the majority of the concert goers etc. For these folks, GN'R means Axl, Slash, Duff and the others. The guys from the heydays, who made Appetite and UYI, having created the world stardom. So far so good? The last album of original music these guys made is from 1991. Since Slash is back, whatever the band will release will be considered as their first record since 91. And an average intelligent person could imagine these folks' reaction if, instead of Slash, the solos were done by some former members from an era 25 years ago where, to the knowledge of many, the band either was on hiatus or possibly was considered an Axl solo only. 
Again, they didn’t wait for Slash for 20 years to come back (one of the biggest, most awaited reunions in rock history) to then have some nameless replacements playing the solos on the comeback album. 
I'm not talking about any personal preferences here. 
I can’t explain it any simpler than that. Then again, I don't think there's any real need to. 

Edited April 12 by jamillos

[SoulMonster]

Just now, jamillos said:

Again, nope. I think you’re only arguing for the sake of arguing. You’d know what I mean if you really wanted to look at things from the other one’s point of view. But ok, I’ll bite once again. In layman’s terms: we often talk about these "casuals", comprising the majority of the concert goers etc. For these folks, GN'R means Axl, Slash, Duff and the others. They guys from the heydays, who made Appetite and UYI, having created the world stardom. So far so good? The last album of original music these guys made is from 1991. Since Slash is back, whatever the band will release will be considered as their first record since 91. And an average intelligent person could imagine these folks' reaction if, instead of Slash, the solos were done by some former members from an era 25 years ago where, to the knowledge of many, the band either was on the hiatus or maybe was considered an Axl solo only. 
Again, they didn’t wait for Slash for 20 years to come back (one of the biggest, most awaited reunions in rock history) to then have some nameless replacements playing the solos on the comeback album. 
I'm not talking about any personal preferences here. 
I can’t explain it any simpler than that. Then again, I don't think there's any real need to. 

Yes, so to these people it is perfectly logical to want Slash on the songs. But to other people it is perfectly logical to not want Slash on the songs. There is no objective logic here no matter how hard you try to make it seem like it. It ALL comes down to preferences.

[jamillos]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Yes, so to these people it is perfectly logical to want Slash on the songs. But to other people it is perfectly logical to not want Slash on the songs. There is no objective logic here no matter how hard you try to make it seem like it. It ALL comes down to preferences.

No, it doesn't. For the third time, I'm not talking about preferences. I'm talking about apples, while you're talking about oranges. Simple as that. 
If you don't wanna see my point, that's fine with me. I think there's no need to continue this. 

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, jamillos said:

No, it doesn't. For the third time, I'm not talking about preferences. I'm talking about apples, while you're talking about oranges. Simple as that. 
If you don't wanna see my point, that's fine with me. I think there's no need to continue this. 

Your argument is that it is some logical that transcends personal preferences and dictates that Slash should be added to these songs. My argument is that you are blatantly wrong. 

[jamillos]

7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Your argument is that it is some logical that transcends personal preferences and dictates that Slash should be added to these songs. My argument is that you are blatantly wrong. 

Well, your opinion that I’m blatantly wrong can’t be right for the simple reason that you clearly insist on misconstruing what my entire argument is about in the first place...
I can't help you there, buddy.