Metallica/GnR Tour: Did GnR blow it?

[RONIN]

So it seems like a lot of the reviews/recollections of that tour seem to have a consensus that Metallica absolutely destroyed GnR and blew them off the stage completely. Any old gunner fans here that attended gigs on this tour? Was that how it went down? How did Metallica go from being friends of GnR to hating them?

James Hetfield has mentioned in some old interviews that Metallica basically converted a lot of GnR fans on that tour into Metallica fans since GnR blew it by taking the stage so late and doing such a bloated set. Metallica had a lean, mean set that wore out the audience -- by the time GnR came on stage, the fans no longer cared. I've heard that Axl frequently would get pissed at the crowd since the energy was so low. 

Then you have the opening acts like Faith No More openly mocking GnR in the press which led to Axl confronting Mike Patton and co where he said this:

" I only like you guys, Nirvana, Jane's Addiction and two other bands, and all of you hate me. " 

Into the Black: The Inside Story of Metallica (1991-2014)

Has anyone read this? There's some crazy shit here about the wild stuff going on backstage during those concerts and James loathing every moment:

https://books.google.com/books?id=mm5zAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT28&lpg=PT28&dq=faith+no+more+gould+axl&source=bl&ots=WSinfW4XYp&sig=FpztAry5iMlMCe2XQd59rv0RwQE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiwrYCLvojNAhVT62MKHXsxBu04ChDoAQg_MAU#v=onepage&q=axl&f=false

And ofcourse there's this:

 

Edited June 3, 2016 by RONIN

[IncitingChaos]

The late times, Axl sound issues, GNR not playing nice with the press caused GNR to get a bad image from fans and anyone who cared, so seeing Metallica was a much better experience for everyone. 

However all the issues and hate for the way gnr operated helped fuel their image as the dangerous band that was living it. They were still the biggest band in the world, Axl was the biggest name in music and MTV played their videos non stop. So yea the tour fed their image more but it wasn't a good experience for fans. 

 

[Silent Jay]

Axl probably saw it like a big family with gnr on top but all the 90's bands tried to steal gnr's momentum. Thanks axl you made me famous, now eat my shit. Or eat my shiit and I'll be famous. Only Baz was thankful to axl over the years, he knew he was the pretender to the throne & axl looked after him. Even The Offspring tried to shit on axl with chinese, let's see Slipknot, VR and Bon Jovi were pretty mad too. Huge part of why rocknroll is mostly dead, assholes everywhere. Must be great to be axl now, great way to say fuck you I'm still here on top with fricking angus.

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

 

 

"Metallica are the led zeppelin of this generation" 

Edited June 3, 2016 by Silent Jay

[MillionsOfSpiders]

 

If it had been 87/88 GNR that turned up to that tour, they would've wiped the floor with Metallica. What a shame. 

[gt72]

I went to 2 of those shows.They played both the LA Coliseum and The Rose Bowl in the LA area.I would have to agree that Metellica sounded better ,had more energy from the crowd and was the "better" of the 2 live on both of those nights .That being said Guns put on good shows both nights .Metellica is just a different animal live.Hard to top and or follow as an act.

[EvanG]

Well, Axl was (is still?) a huge diva, and the guys in Metallica seemed to be much more down to earth and no whiny bitches, so of course James would be making fun of Axl... who wouldn't? He was asking for it with his prima donna behaviour.

[cheesecake]

Fortune, fame
Mirror vain
Gone insane
But the memory remains

Heavy rings on fingers wave
Another star denies the grave
See the nowhere crowd, cry the nowhere tears of honor

Like twisted vines that grow
That hide and swallow mansions whole
And dim the light of an already faded prima donna

Fortune, fame
Mirror vain
Gone insane...
Fortune, fame
Mirror vain
Gone insane...
But the memory remains

Heavy rings hold cigarettes
Up to lips that time forgets
While the Hollywood sun sets behind your back

And can't the band play on?
Just listen, they play my song
Ash to ash
Dust to dust
Fade to black

Fortune, fame
Mirror vain
Gone insane...
Fortune, fame
Mirror vain
Gone insane...
Dance, little tin goddess

Na-na-na...

Drift away
Fade away
Little tin goddess

Ash to ash
Dust to dust
Fade to black

Fortune, fame
Mirror vain
Gone insane...
Fortune, fame
Mirror vain
Gone insane...
But the memory remains

Ash to ash
Dust to dust
Fade to black...
But the memory remains, yeah

To this faded prima donna yeah, yeah, yeah, hey

Dance, little tin goddess, dance

Na-na-na...


Say yes
At least say hello
Say yes
At least say hello

[spliff]

from some guy that documented 30 years of going to concerts

Quote

Aug 2 1991 Guns N Roses/Skid Row Forum  (went with Mom and sister Jamie

Quote

Oct 3 1992 Guns N Roses/Metallica/Motorhead Rose Bowl  (postponed from Aug 22, Faith No More was original opener, Slash played with Motorhead on "You Better Run." Guns N Roses went from great to awful in less than a year)

 

 http://ijwthstd.webs.com/live.txt

 

 

[RussTCB]

3 minutes ago, cheesecake said:

Fortune, fame
Mirror vain
Gone insane
But the memory remains

 

 

 

I've always thought both The Memory Remains and King Nothing were about Axl.

[DieselDaisy]

Axl blew it.

[cheesecake]

3 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I've always thought both The Memory Remains and King Nothing were about Axl.

Hmm I've never given any thought about King Nothing's lyrics...interesting. But somehow EVERY TIME I hear Memory Remains Axl would automatically appear on my mind LOL.

 

[cheesecake]

@RussTCB  yeah you may be quite right there  about King Nothing. And I had to laugh at "are you pacified" as a lot of people here liked to refer to Axl as acting like a toddler sometimes (Diesel I'm looking at you LOL) 

[Nikki_Sixx]

Metallica didn't do a 'lean mean set', they played exactly the same show they had been doing for about a year.  2-2,5 hours.

The difference is that the change-over time was way too long, and then Axl came on way too late, resulting in a tired and pissed-off crowd, resulting in Axl acting out on a regular basis.

The show in itself, in terms of setlists, length and whatnot, were not as bad as people seem to want to make them out to be.  They were a slight step up from the generally stale setlists on the European run that immediately preceded it.  'Estranged' was played more often, mostly the first few shows, 'Out Ta Get Me' opened a few shows, 'Yesterdays', 'Move To The City', 'Rocket Queen' etc. all made appearances.  They never again scaled the heights they did live from '91 up to February '92 though.

[sonofnazareth]

Nah. GNR was at its peak back then..no band could touch them. If it was Metallica with Cliff Burton then it would be a different matter. Metallica came out and played some of that generic 'Black album' metal which made some of the more discerning music fans yawn. GNR was in a different league. Having said that, what passes for GNR today would not be able to hold a candle to Metallica back then. GNR fans were lucky in those days..we had 'turn your brains into mashed rice' Sorum and 'red corvette' Clarke..times were good. 

 

[tsinindy]

4 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

 

If it had been 87/88 GNR that turned up to that tour, they would've wiped the floor with Metallica. What a shame. 

Uh no....not if 87/88 Metallica showed up as well.

[tsinindy]

41 minutes ago, sonofnazareth said:

Nah. GNR was at its peak back then..no band could touch them. If it was Metallica with Cliff Burton then it would be a different matter. Metallica came out and played some of that generic 'Black album' metal which made some of the more discerning music fans yawn. GNR was in a different league. Having said that, what passes for GNR today would not be able to hold a candle to Metallica back then. GNR fans were lucky in those days..we had 'turn your brains into mashed rice' Sorum and 'red corvette' Clarke..times were good. 

 

Of course you're wrong, mainly bc you weren't there.  Metallica consistently destroyed GnR on that specific tour.  What James said is totally on point, other than Metallica having a "lean" set list.  They played the same basic set they had been playing since they started touring in support of the black album.  

The audience at these shows was 1/4 hardcore Met fans, 1/4 hardcore GnR fans and 50% casual metal fans and chics, etc that had no real allegiance to either band.

Met came out night in and night out and won a lot of the 50% over with no bullshit, GnR did not.

I was there in 1992 at the Hoosier Dome in Indianapolis and trust me GnR was not nearly as awe-inspiring as they were just one year prior.  Metallica was every bit as good  as every other time I had seen them to that point which was 5-6.

if you think Metallica wasn't in GnR's league you need to reconsider that, bc that tour specifically and GnR's immediate demise was the second biggest factor in Metallica becoming the biggest band on the planet once GnR completely vacated the scene a year later.

 

[tsinindy]

Also, to answer the original question.  GnR absolutely blew it.  They had the potential to be the biggest band since the Beatles.  They potentially could have been as big as The Stones, The Who, Zeppelin or Sabbath.  

[Sprite]

3 hours ago, tsinindy said:

Of course you're wrong, mainly bc you weren't there.  Metallica consistently destroyed GnR on that specific tour.  What James said is totally on point, other than Metallica having a "lean" set list.  They played the same basic set they had been playing since they started touring in support of the black album.  

The audience at these shows was 1/4 hardcore Met fans, 1/4 hardcore GnR fans and 50% casual metal fans and chics, etc that had no real allegiance to either band.

Met came out night in and night out and won a lot of the 50% over with no bullshit, GnR did not.

I was there in 1992 at the Hoosier Dome in Indianapolis and trust me GnR was not nearly as awe-inspiring as they were just one year prior.  Metallica was every bit as good  as every other time I had seen them to that point which was 5-6.

if you think Metallica wasn't in GnR's league you need to reconsider that, bc that tour specifically and GnR's immediate demise was the second biggest factor in Metallica becoming the biggest band on the planet once GnR completely vacated the scene a year later.

 

It's all subjective. Because if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... but Bob still thinks it's a goose.

Full disclosure: I don't like Metallica. I've tried for years. I think it's Hetfield's growl mostly that bothers me. I like a few of the radio hits. But I generally have never been able to get into them.

I'm speaking mass scale here not of specific concerts dates and the overall perception of the 2 at those concerts. How you went around to 20K people asking them their opinion, and remembering it 25 years later, I'll never know.

What I do know is it's silly to imply either band was that much "bigger" than the other. Both were phenomenally successful. The black album, Nevermind and UYI's were the biggest rock albums of 91 and still today are huge. I also know Guns N Roses won the Billboard music award for most albums sold in 1992. So there is that little nugget to deal with too when implying Guns weren't in Metallica's league.

As I said I think it's all subjective. I could have been there with you and while I might have dug Enter Sandman, I mostly would have been waiting for Guns. I don't think Metallica has ever had the fan base guns does in terms of being a large spectrum of people of all walks of life. There is something there for everyone with Guns. You've got to like a certain genre to really get into Metallica. They are almost more cult like to me. Not as sadistic as the Manson cult but not as impactful either.

[gt72]

8 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

 

If it had been 87/88 GNR that turned up to that tour, they would've wiped the floor with Metallica. What a shame. 

Have you seen Metallica live ?I don't think anyone blows away live

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Just now, gt72 said:

Have you seen Metallica live ?I don't think anyone blows away live

Yes I've seen them six times and whilst they were good I wouldn't say they were mind blowing. I've seen better bands. The Rolling Stones, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, would blow Metallica away  

[tsinindy]

35 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Yes I've seen them six times and whilst they were good I wouldn't say they were mind blowing. I've seen better bands. The Rolling Stones, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, would blow Metallica away  

I've seen all those bands, several times.  Not one of them blows Metallica away.  

[tsinindy]

45 minutes ago, Sprite said:

It's all subjective. Because if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... but Bob still thinks it's a goose.

Full disclosure: I don't like Metallica. I've tried for years. I think it's Hetfield's growl mostly that bothers me. I like a few of the radio hits. But I generally have never been able to get into them.

I'm speaking mass scale here not of specific concerts dates and the overall perception of the 2 at those concerts. How you went around to 20K people asking them their opinion, and remembering it 25 years later, I'll never know.

What I do know is it's silly to imply either band was that much "bigger" than the other. Both were phenomenally successful. The black album, Nevermind and UYI's were the biggest rock albums of 91 and still today are huge. I also know Guns N Roses won the Billboard music award for most albums sold in 1992. So there is that little nugget to deal with too when implying Guns weren't in Metallica's league.

As I said I think it's all subjective. I could have been there with you and while I might have dug Enter Sandman, I mostly would have been waiting for Guns. I don't think Metallica has ever had the fan base guns does in terms of being a large spectrum of people of all walks of life. There is something there for everyone with Guns. You've got to like a certain genre to really get into Metallica. They are almost more cult like to me. Not as sadistic as the Manson cult but not as impactful either.

Thats interesting, and I agree it's definitively subjective, but it was also a consensus subjective at the time.  You can cite subjectivity all you want but it is what it is.

speaking of subjective, I'm going to imagine based on what you said the Met songs that you like are the ones that most hardcore Met fans think suck.

Edited June 3, 2016 by tsinindy

[Sprite]

5 minutes ago, tsinindy said:

 

speaking of subjective, I'm going to imagine based on what you said the Met songs that you like are the ones that most hardcore Met fans think suck.

Ha. Probably. I actually am going rogue and think their 2 best songs were the covers of Whiskey in the Jar and Tuesday's Gone. 

[gt72]

45 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Yes I've seen them six times and whilst they were good I wouldn't say they were mind blowing. I've seen better bands. The Rolling Stones, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, would blow Metallica away  

Like the other said it's all subjective love me some Sabbath and Maiden live as well seen them both within last couple months,great shows.Stones I've only seen a couple times ,once with Guns,good shoes as well but not my faves.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Just now, tsinindy said:

I've seen all those bands, several times.  Not one of them blows Metallica away.  

Yes me too, and for me they do. So, imo, yes they do. 

I don't doubt Metallica out did GNR on that particular tour. If only Metallica had stayed that way instead of trying to go hard rock with Load and Reload and then whatever it was they were doing with St Anger :/ 

That album was way worse than Chinese Democracy, I can at least listen to bits of CD if I have to.