The James Bond Thread: RIP Robbie Coltrane

[James Bond]

Something I was thinking about - if we get a properly placed gun barrel this time around it will be the first time in 13 years. If you really want to get technical you could even argue that it would be the first "proper" gun barrel since The World Is Not Enough since the Die Another Day one had the CGI bullet (which I didn't mind as much as most fans - the film had far greater problems).

Also:

Not that we didn't already know but look at that Moneypenny. Damn.

I often thought The World Is Not Enough had, potentially; a darker, almost 'Craigian era' storyline (MI5 blown up, M kidnapped); a decent and atypically Bondian villain (Renard) played by a good actor (Carlyle); the goddess Sophie Marceau.

Unfortunately, Christmas Jones (Denise Richards) was bad casting and simply atrocious. The script had problems - something about gas pipe lines in Eastern Europe? I also thought Renard was underused in the end. He became an incidental character and they obviously did not know how to kill him off so just settled for the ole' missile in the stomach number. I desired a tragic death like Rutger Hauer's death in Blade Runner.

I've always said that the biggest problem with The World Is Not Enough is that it tries to be too many things all at once. It was like part of them wanted to give Brosnan a darker, plot driven film but there was fear that losing the action formula would make the film unsuccessful. After all, both GoldenEye and Tomorrow Never Dies were pretty action driven and it seemed to work for Brosnan's Bond. Much of the action in TWINE feels like its shoehorned in there for the sake of being there rather than adding to the story. EON wouldn't hire Apted if they didn't intend to provide a more character driven film so my bet is that the studio intervened and wanted to ensure that there was still plenty of action.

That said, even with its flaws, I have quite the soft spot for the film because it was the first one I saw in theaters. It was pretty mind blowing for a seven year old!

[Amir]

Since Miser opened the door, Ima pop in here and say I find Daniel Craig as Bond to be massively overrated.

I'll also chuck in that Christopher Nolan is also massively overrated and he just makes the same bloody movie over and over again, and while I'm at it Christian Bale sucks too.

I love Nolan, he's one of my favourite directors, but I won't argue that his films often push the same theme (hope in the face of adversity + puzzle/game structure + explosions set to rousing Zimmer score).

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/19/exclusive-sony-emails-reveal-studio-head-wants-idris-elba-for-the-next-james-bond.html

[Georgy Zhukov]

Not sure if this was covered but it turns out Sony did want Idris Elba for the role of James Bond according to the leaks.

[Graeme]

I'm annoyed about that, but predominantly because it means that they want to reboot the franchise again when Craig is done (unless they're planning on having Bond inexplicably perform a far more effective reverse-Michael Jackson). I'm beginning to get annoyed at how common rebooting is becoming, it's a lazy way of making money out of an already established franchise. I would have hoped that they intended to get as much out of the current Bond as the original timeline of the series rather than reboot it every time they get a new actor so there's a perpetually current James Bond who has his story told over four or five films, then we start again with telling the same coming-of-age of the same character but 15 years later or so.

[Facekicker]

If they cast a black Bond it will be for no other reason than to play up to the PC Brigade - which is practically the antithesis of the character, never mind the absurdity of a black man playing a character whose background is as follows:

Bond is the son of a Scottish father, Andrew Bond, of Glencoe, and a Swiss mother, Monique Delacroix, of the Canton de Vaud.[35] The young James Bond spends much of his early life abroad, becoming multilingual in German and French because of his father's work as a Vickers armaments company representative. Bond is orphaned at the age of 11 when his parents are killed in a mountain climbing accident in the Aiguilles Rouges near Chamonix.

Oh and he later attends Eton.

Sorry but there is no way in hell that makes sense with a black Bond. If they want to go down that route then are we going to see a white Shaft, an Asian Rambo? Bloody ridiculous.

No way in hell I'd go see that in the cinema or buy it on Blu-Ray. I dont care how good an actor Elba is, its just plain stupid.

[Amir]

I don't think they'd do an origin story again if they recast Bond as Elba.

Bond only got Scottish ancestry after Connery was cast in the role.

Eton does have at least one token black pupil.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Rebooting Bond back in 2006 was necessary because they were adapting the first novel and also they wanted to move away from over the top films of the Brosnan era. The success of Batman Begins and Casino Royale gave these film companies the idea that reboots = $$$. You can say Bond rebooted itself with each new actor. With new actors the tone of the film is different.

If they reboot Bond again, I can never go see it. It won't be Ian Fleming's Bond anymore, just Sony's James Bond. I'd rather have Daniel Craig as the last actor to play James Bond and let Bond come back after a decade hiatus.

[Facekicker]

Sure why not have a woman play Bond. Cast Lena Dunham and make the story about her crusading against the patriarchy on behalf of Britains fat short haired damaged feminist brigade.

Who gives a fuck about the character its just a name.

[Amir]

Craig is only signed on for one more film after Spectre, and he's made it clear he's wanted to leave for a while. I wouldn't be bothered if they carried on with Elba without making any reference to race, and then switched back to a white actor. Unless Bond is gonna go join the KKK at some point I don't see why he has to be a set race. I think the British part is more important than ethnicity.

Sure why not have a woman play Bond. Cast Lena Dunham and make the story about her crusading against the patriarchy on behalf of Britains fat short haired damaged feminist brigade.

Who gives a fuck about the character its just a name.

That's reductio ad absurdum. There is no way that casting Elba would be the same as casting Dunham. Elba is British. He's suave, confident, has the physique, you can see him pulling international birds and taking out foreign baddies. Looks good in a tux, too.

If they were to cast Michael B. Jordan or Jet Li as Bond, yes, that would be a travesty. But as long as the actor can stay true to the Bond spirit I don't see the problem.

[Georgy Zhukov]

If we are going to have a black Bond, then Melissa McCarthy should be the Bond girl.

[AxlisOld]

Then make a movie about a black secret agent. Don't take an established character and change it just to show how progressive you are.

Craig is only signed on for one more film after Spectre, and he's made it clear he's wanted to leave for a while. I wouldn't be bothered if they carried on with Elba without making any reference to race, and then switched back to a white actor. Unless Bond is gonna go join the KKK at some point I don't see why he has to be a set race. I think the British part is more important than ethnicity.

Sure why not have a woman play Bond. Cast Lena Dunham and make the story about her crusading against the patriarchy on behalf of Britains fat short haired damaged feminist brigade.

Who gives a fuck about the character its just a name.

That's reductio ad absurdum. There is no way that casting Elba would be the same as casting Dunham. Elba is British. He's suave, confident, has the physique, you can see him pulling international birds and taking out foreign baddies. Looks good in a tux, too.

If they were to cast Michael B. Jordan or Jet Li as Bond, yes, that would be a travesty. But as long as the actor can stay true to the Bond spirit I don't see the problem.

[Amir]

Having a black Bond shouldn't be about being PC, it should be about having the best damn actor for the role. When there were talks about having Colin Salmon for Bond, it smacked of tokenism and PC-ness to me. But with Elba, it feels more authentic, since he exudes the charisma and sexiness that the Bond character does.

I wouldn't want any actor in any role as stunt casting. But I'd like to see Elba as Bond, because I think he has the acting chops to pull it off.

Spider-Man is one of my favourite fictional characters. When there was talk about whether Donald Glover should play the role, I wasn't upset, and I thought it was pretty cool. I thought he could really pull off the humour and geekiness of the character. I'd see him as better suited to Peter Parker than Miles Morales, as he's too old to play the latter.

We've had Brits playing Batman, Superman and Spider-Man with little fuss (though it would be more problematic if you had a Brit playing Captain America). Why should there be a fuss about a Brit playing Bond?

[Facekicker]

Because he's black and the character is about as white as you can get.

The nearest comparison would be Daniel Craig cast as Shaft. Equally daft.

[Amir]

Because he's black and the character is about as white as you can get.

The nearest comparison would be Daniel Craig cast as Shaft. Equally daft.

Back in the '50s/'60s, yes, it would have been unrealistic to have a black actor playing someone who went to Eton, who had parents who were born and bred in Europe, etc. But with second/third-generation immigrants, they've become more British than anything.

Shaft is defined by his blackness. It's a blaxploitation flick. I wouldn't want a black actor playing Wong Fei-Hung because it would be ridiculously unrealistic. Having a black British guy as an Eton-educated MI6 agent is no longer incredibly implausible.

[dalsh327]

They've talked about doing a Live and Let Die remake with Elba, so the trip to Harlem would probably be more upscale and take out the Blaxploitation, the book was gold coins and not heroin. If a spy is going into Harlem or Jamaica, you'd expect him to blend in!

Edited December 20, 2014 by dalsh327

[Amir]

A black actor playing Axl in the Reckless Road movie would be ridiculous PC nonsense.

Why create a new secret agent for Elba when he can just be the new Bond? Doesn't mean Bond has to be black for eternity. If they retrofitted the character to make a point of his blackness, make it so he went to some East End comprehensive and ex-poly instead of Eton and Oxford, then yes it would be the most pandering condescending rubbish ever. But if his race was no big deal and everything else about the character was true to his roots and essence, I'd be happy with Elba as Bond.

[Georgy Zhukov]

There was a theory proposed during Die Another Day that James Bond is just a code name given to the best agents.

I think if Elba does play Bond, he should just be James Bond. Nothing else should be made of it. He can certainly pull it off.

[Graeme]

There was a theory proposed during Die Another Day that James Bond is just a code name given to the best agents.

The director of Die Another Day believed that theory, which is why the film was an absolute load of shite. James Bond is one man.

Also, Amir, you would seriously be happy with a plot line where Daniel Craig becomes Idris Elba with no reference made to the change (i.e. Connery to Lazenby, Dalton to Brosnan etc.)? Fair play to you, but I don't think I could suspend my disbelief. This isn't fucking Doctor Who.

[Amir]

There was a theory proposed during Die Another Day that James Bond is just a code name given to the best agents.

The director of Die Another Day believed that theory, which is why the film was an absolute load of shite. James Bond is one man.

Also, Amir, you would seriously be happy with a plot line where Daniel Craig becomes Idris Elba with no reference made to the change (i.e. Connery to Lazenby, Dalton to Brosnan etc.)? Fair play to you, but I don't think I could suspend my disbelief. This isn't fucking Doctor Who.

If I can suspend my disbelief that Connery can pass as Japanese...

I'm not saying it would be ideal, but Elba's one of the better candidates I've heard from the names being tossed about. Tom Hardy's way too young, and while Fassbender is a great actor I can't see him as Bond. Who else has been suggested?

[DieselDaisy]

Growing up with these films, I sort of consciously believed that they rebooted it with every new actor but they evidently did not do this, or see it this way. Witness the scene in OHMSS when Bond goes through his draw and pulls off all his old gadgets. Also witness the beginning of FYEO which rounds off the Blofeld thing. Audiences were a lot less sophisticated them - and the reference to his dead wife in LTK.

[Dr. Who]

The best Bond villain ever

[Powerage5]

Time for a new poll on the Black Bond issue.

[Amir]

Time for a new poll on the Black Bond issue.

We should just have a poll on who the next Bond should be.

https://today.yougov.com/news/2014/12/10/idris-elba-james-bond/

Statham would be bloody awful.

[Powerage5]

Time for a new poll on the Black Bond issue.

We should just have a poll on who the next Bond should be.

https://today.yougov.com/news/2014/12/10/idris-elba-james-bond/

Statham would be bloody awful.

Fine

[Dr. Who]

Bond's background is supposed to be Scottish and English. And he's described in the novels pretty clearly. I thought we were staying true to the novels, not going with every 21st century fad. Sigh.