axldoyle Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I was listening to CD the other day and its hard to believe that an album that took 14 odd years to release has such a muddy sound to it, some tracks are mastered perfectly (Sorry) but others such as Prostitute are horribly mastered and it just ruins the impact that each song has. Either too much is happening at once and my ears can't keep up or this album needs to be remastered, what do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BangoSkank Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I was listening to CD the other day and its hard to believe that an album that took 14 odd years to release has such a muddy sound to it, some tracks are mastered perfectly (Sorry) but others such as Prostitute are horribly mastered and it just ruins the impact that each song has. Either too much is happening at once and my ears can't keep up or this album needs to be remastered, what do you guys think? I see what you're saying, but my main criticism is actually that there’s one-layer-too-much of production. Parts of the album sound really smooth and clean on an otherwise gritty song (Shackler’s). It’s especially noticeable when you compare the album to the ‘06 leaks, with Better being the main culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dude Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I couldn't disagree more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Just release the 2001 version of CD. And mastering isn't GnR's biggest problem when it comes to CD. Production and layering is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I think it sounds great, only at certain points do the layers get too intense but I thinks on purpose on Catcher and IRS. Those two are my favorites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axldoyle Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 I was listening to CD the other day and its hard to believe that an album that took 14 odd years to release has such a muddy sound to it, some tracks are mastered perfectly (Sorry) but others such as Prostitute are horribly mastered and it just ruins the impact that each song has. Either too much is happening at once and my ears can't keep up or this album needs to be remastered, what do you guys think? I see what you're saying, but my main criticism is actually that there’s one-layer-too-much of production. Parts of the album sound really smooth and clean on an otherwise gritty song (Shackler’s). It’s especially noticeable when you compare the album to the ‘06 leaks, with Better being the main culprit.Yeah that's exactly it, I don't know if its additional instruments and the effects that they bring or whether its over production. When I listen to it with good quality headphone I tend to notice that the levels are all over the place compared to conventional rock records, sometimes pitmans synths make the guitar tracks hard to follow and vice versa, I guess that's what 14 years can do to an album though. A more raw version of the album would have been a much more enjoyable listen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russel Nash Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I was listening to CD the other day and its hard to believe that an album that took 14 odd years to release has such a muddy sound to it, some tracks are mastered perfectly (Sorry) but others such as Prostitute are horribly mastered and it just ruins the impact that each song has. Either too much is happening at once and my ears can't keep up or this album needs to be remastered, what do you guys think? Maybe your ears are prepared for a loud mix like the ones Rick Rubin provides. But that's one of the main reason why rock isn't classic anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axldoyle Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Do you guys agree that alot of Bumblefoot's additions to the album (although they were technically impressive) seemed to change the direction that the previous members were taking it. For example his fretless solos and his addition to chinese' verses, I personally preferred bucketheads original Riad solo and I thought that the hollow verses of Chinese actually added to the atmosphere in the song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
there is no dana only zool Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I feel like I screwed myself by listening to the leak of Catcher when it first came out. As it was just a demo, its sound quality was as you'd expect only a demo to be, so by the time the final version dropped on CD, I could never really get past that initial muddiness. Learned my lesson haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axldoyle Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 I was listening to CD the other day and its hard to believe that an album that took 14 odd years to release has such a muddy sound to it, some tracks are mastered perfectly (Sorry) but others such as Prostitute are horribly mastered and it just ruins the impact that each song has. Either too much is happening at once and my ears can't keep up or this album needs to be remastered, what do you guys think? Maybe your ears are prepared for a loud mix like the ones Rick Rubin provides. But that's one of the main reason why rock isn't classic anymore.I just want a classic appetite sound to the album, left right centre, no additional synth bullshit from Chris the goosefucker Pitman a straight up guitar, drums, bass and piano album would have been more than enough. I know Axl wanted to experiment with industrial sounds and push the envelope but all he ended up doing was pushing an envelope of cash right into Chris PItmans pocket, although the dude might be a nice guy he's a waste of space in a band like GNR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dude Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I think it sounds great, only at certain points do the layers get too intense but I thinks on purpose on Catcher and IRS. Those two are my favorites.I love the sound on IRS. It sounds like an army of guitars. I really dig the layers of grooves... and the dashes of keys and synth on the song. There's a lot going on yet it doesn't get so muddled where you can't tell what is what. I always thought the reason they were able to accomplish that was precisely because of the mastering and Axl choosing to emphasize the dynamics rather than sacrifice them for the sake of loudness- which is what most bands seem to do these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustycage Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 The worst part is a lot of the distorted guitars. The amount of 'fizz' still left on some of them is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axldoyle Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 I think it sounds great, only at certain points do the layers get too intense but I thinks on purpose on Catcher and IRS. Those two are my favorites.I love the sound on IRS. It sounds like an army of guitars. I really dig the layers of grooves... and the dashes of keys and synth on the song. There's a lot going on yet it doesn't get so muddled where you can't tell what is what. I always thought the reason they were able to accomplish that was precisely because of the mastering and Axl choosing to emphasize the dynamics rather than sacrifice them for the sake of loudness- which is what most bands seem to do these days. I didn't mean that the album has to be louder, I just think that certain sections are in fact too loud and it prevents certain instruments from shining, maybe the overproduction led to this and I have just confused myself and you guys with what I meant? There are parts within the multitracks that I was never even able to distinguish until I heard them individually that was never the case with appetite or UYI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BangoSkank Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I was listening to CD the other day and its hard to believe that an album that took 14 odd years to release has such a muddy sound to it, some tracks are mastered perfectly (Sorry) but others such as Prostitute are horribly mastered and it just ruins the impact that each song has. Either too much is happening at once and my ears can't keep up or this album needs to be remastered, what do you guys think? I see what you're saying, but my main criticism is actually that there’s one-layer-too-much of production. Parts of the album sound really smooth and clean on an otherwise gritty song (Shackler’s). It’s especially noticeable when you compare the album to the ‘06 leaks, with Better being the main culprit.Yeah that's exactly it, I don't know if its additional instruments and the effects that they bring or whether its over production. When I listen to it with good quality headphone I tend to notice that the levels are all over the place compared to conventional rock records, sometimes pitmans synths make the guitar tracks hard to follow and vice versa, I guess that's what 14 years can do to an album though. A more raw version of the album would have been a much more enjoyable listen.Yeah, I really don’t hate any of the sound on the album, but if I listen to early leaks, especially of IRS, I just think “Goddamnit, why can’t it all sound like this?”Songs like Prostitute, Shackler's and even TWAT would’ve really benefited from a slightly more raw touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I think it sounds great, only at certain points do the layers get too intense but I thinks on purpose on Catcher and IRS. Those two are my favorites.Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Just release the 2001 version of CD.And mastering isn't GnR's biggest problem when it comes to CD. Production and layering is.This, this, this, so much THIS.If you mess around with the RB2 files for the CD songs for even 1 minute, it becomes clear that if some of the layers were peeled away, the album would rock a LOT more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dude Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I was listening to CD the other day and its hard to believe that an album that took 14 odd years to release has such a muddy sound to it, some tracks are mastered perfectly (Sorry) but others such as Prostitute are horribly mastered and it just ruins the impact that each song has. Either too much is happening at once and my ears can't keep up or this album needs to be remastered, what do you guys think? Maybe your ears are prepared for a loud mix like the ones Rick Rubin provides. But that's one of the main reason why rock isn't classic anymore.I just want a classic appetite sound to the album, left right centre, no additional synth bullshit from Chris the goosefucker Pitman a straight up guitar, drums, bass and piano album would have been more than enough. I know Axl wanted to experiment with industrial sounds and push the envelope but all he ended up doing was pushing an envelope of cash right into Chris PItmans pocket, although the dude might be a nice guy he's a waste of space in a band like GNR.If you want to hear the "Appetite sound" you can always listen to Appetite. That's what I do anyway and it works a lot better than trying to hear it by listening to records that aren't Appetite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axldoyle Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 I was listening to CD the other day and its hard to believe that an album that took 14 odd years to release has such a muddy sound to it, some tracks are mastered perfectly (Sorry) but others such as Prostitute are horribly mastered and it just ruins the impact that each song has. Either too much is happening at once and my ears can't keep up or this album needs to be remastered, what do you guys think? Maybe your ears are prepared for a loud mix like the ones Rick Rubin provides. But that's one of the main reason why rock isn't classic anymore.I just want a classic appetite sound to the album, left right centre, no additional synth bullshit from Chris the goosefucker Pitman a straight up guitar, drums, bass and piano album would have been more than enough. I know Axl wanted to experiment with industrial sounds and push the envelope but all he ended up doing was pushing an envelope of cash right into Chris PItmans pocket, although the dude might be a nice guy he's a waste of space in a band like GNR.If you want to hear the "Appetite sound" you can always listen to Appetite. That's what I do anyway and it works a lot better than trying to hear it by listening to records that aren't Appetite.NIce smart ass reply, I do listen to appetite and I don't mean I want to whack on Chinese and listen to its so easy version 2, I at least expected the album to be as easy to listen to and follow as appetite was. Don't get me wrong I love the album and I still think the songs rock but there is a certain something that's missing with the way the songs come across and its not related to who created the music it seems like a simple matter of too many things happening in each channel so you almost get confused at times. That said this "confusion" also adds to songs such as IRS where it just blows your head off because it can. If you strip songs like prostitute and TIL down to the very basic layers then you begin to hear the music for what it really is, I don't think that should be necessary when listening to an album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dude Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I was listening to CD the other day and its hard to believe that an album that took 14 odd years to release has such a muddy sound to it, some tracks are mastered perfectly (Sorry) but others such as Prostitute are horribly mastered and it just ruins the impact that each song has. Either too much is happening at once and my ears can't keep up or this album needs to be remastered, what do you guys think? Maybe your ears are prepared for a loud mix like the ones Rick Rubin provides. But that's one of the main reason why rock isn't classic anymore.I just want a classic appetite sound to the album, left right centre, no additional synth bullshit from Chris the goosefucker Pitman a straight up guitar, drums, bass and piano album would have been more than enough. I know Axl wanted to experiment with industrial sounds and push the envelope but all he ended up doing was pushing an envelope of cash right into Chris PItmans pocket, although the dude might be a nice guy he's a waste of space in a band like GNR.If you want to hear the "Appetite sound" you can always listen to Appetite. That's what I do anyway and it works a lot better than trying to hear it by listening to records that aren't Appetite.NIce smart ass reply, I do listen to appetite and I don't mean I want to whack on Chinese and listen to its so easy version 2, I at least expected the album to be as easy to listen to and follow as appetite was. Don't get me wrong I love the album and I still think the songs rock but there is a certain something that's missing with the way the songs come across and its not related to who created the music it seems like a simple matter of too many things happening in each channel so you almost get confused at times. That said this "confusion" also adds to songs such as IRS where it just blows your head off because it can. If you strip songs like prostitute and TIL down to the very basic layers then you begin to hear the music for what it really is, I don't think that should be necessary when listening to an album.That's one of the things I like the most about it- the plethora of layers and different dimensions of sound. I hear people say that they wanted to hear the record more raw and stripped down, but that doesn't seem like Axl. Axl does epic. Axl does epic. Axl does grandiose. When I think Axl, I don't really think raw and organic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Put it out on Blu Ray audio with all the mixes and let the fans mess with it on their computers. Brian Wilson had talked about doing that with "Smile" but as PC software, and we know Trent Reznor had done it before, this way you'd get to have fun messing around with the songs and coming up with your own mix, and the band makes a few bucks in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axldoyle Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) I was listening to CD the other day and its hard to believe that an album that took 14 odd years to release has such a muddy sound to it, some tracks are mastered perfectly (Sorry) but others such as Prostitute are horribly mastered and it just ruins the impact that each song has. Either too much is happening at once and my ears can't keep up or this album needs to be remastered, what do you guys think? Maybe your ears are prepared for a loud mix like the ones Rick Rubin provides. But that's one of the main reason why rock isn't classic anymore.I just want a classic appetite sound to the album, left right centre, no additional synth bullshit from Chris the goosefucker Pitman a straight up guitar, drums, bass and piano album would have been more than enough. I know Axl wanted to experiment with industrial sounds and push the envelope but all he ended up doing was pushing an envelope of cash right into Chris PItmans pocket, although the dude might be a nice guy he's a waste of space in a band like GNR.If you want to hear the "Appetite sound" you can always listen to Appetite. That's what I do anyway and it works a lot better than trying to hear it by listening to records that aren't Appetite.NIce smart ass reply, I do listen to appetite and I don't mean I want to whack on Chinese and listen to its so easy version 2, I at least expected the album to be as easy to listen to and follow as appetite was. Don't get me wrong I love the album and I still think the songs rock but there is a certain something that's missing with the way the songs come across and its not related to who created the music it seems like a simple matter of too many things happening in each channel so you almost get confused at times. That said this "confusion" also adds to songs such as IRS where it just blows your head off because it can. If you strip songs like prostitute and TIL down to the very basic layers then you begin to hear the music for what it really is, I don't think that should be necessary when listening to an album.That's one of the things I like the most about it- the plethora of layers and different dimensions of sound. I hear people say that they wanted to hear the record more raw and stripped down, but that doesn't seem like Axl. Axl does epic. Axl does epic. Axl does grandiose. When I think Axl, I don't really think raw and organic. A song can still have a grandiose feel and be epic in terms of length and structure without having an barrage of instruments and noise, I know he had to find a balance between guitar parts and orchestra sections and on the most part he did this well but on others it comes across like certain parts were just thrown in to fill a void, especially the bumblefoot parts, the 2000 intentions demos still sounded great but they didn't have endless waves of unnecessary noise. I agree that Axl goes hand in hand with grandiose songs but he also kills a straight rocker especially with his earlier voice, he did sing with a cleaner tone on this album though whether that was out of choice or not is another matter but I understand your point. Put it out on Blu Ray audio with all the mixes and let the fans mess with it on their computers. Brian Wilson had talked about doing that with "Smile" but as PC software, and we know Trent Reznor had done it before, this way you'd get to have fun messing around with the songs and coming up with your own mix, and the band makes a few bucks in the process. Hopefully TB start coming up with ideas like this soon, because if they are going to milk the fans and not release any genuinely new material then this strategy for all the existing GNR albums would be great. The new update from Rock fuel was very promising, hopefully the sound on that release will be handled well. Edited December 19, 2013 by axldoyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoSoRose Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Chinese is one of the few modern records where I have no issues with the production. I think it was a masterful job 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yourcrazy Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Definately wouldn't waste any resources ramastering an album that already has had too much studio time. I love the album, but I don't think any of the additional tinkering was worth it and it would of gone over 1000 times better had it been released in 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Street Of The Blues Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 It doesn't need to be remastered but wouldn't hurt anything. Was actually just discussing this the other day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iftheworld Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Oh look its this thread again. Oh hey, look its that opinion again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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