The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread

[Dazey]

Front cover of The Mirror goes:

Cameron: dont destroy great britain just to get rid of me

Some days you wake up in the morning and realise just how big a cunt people think you are eh Dave?

I'm voting for him next year.

[Len Cnut]

*shakes his head in disbelief* I bet your fuckin' parents are ashamed of you

[Dazey]

*shakes his head in disbelief* I bet your fuckin' parents are ashamed of you

I'm voting for the party that might let me stop paying 40% fucking tax!

[Len Cnut]

Yeah, thats it, pull the fuckin' ladder up eh Jack, got a few quid yourself and all of a sudden you've forgot where you came from, those 40% probably go to help some other little Dazey living in a council flat somewhere making pulley driven booby traps for the ginger tabby next door, vote Labour then maybe the poor sod'll get some kinda Uni grant and get a shot at the title like you did.

Y'know the 9th circle of hell is reserved for the worst section of humanity and y'know what they are? Traitors! Traitors and sell outs and grasses, even God hates em Gods gonna gimme the guided tour, me and Virgil in the boat and there'll be you with the fuckin' point of an icicle up your arse and I'm gonna be like here, let McLeod off and Gods gonna be like 'sorry mate, Tory' It's gonna be you, Judas Escariot and Brutus looking like a right bunch of cunts with me sailing on down the styx with a fuckin' 'Vote Labour' rosette on going 'told ya!'

Save yourself man, there's still time

Edited September 16, 2014 by Lennie Godber

[Johnny Drama]

Goddamn, I've missed this shit.

Really, Dazey? Voting Tory?

[Len Cnut]

Muppet ain't he?

[Johnny Drama]

Oh got nothing against it per se. I mean I can't stand the Conservative lot on the federal level over here but I love them on the state level. I just always thought Dazey was a Labour type.

[Len Cnut]

This is the age old problem with the working class, flash em a fiver and their knickers are round their ankles quicker than you can say TUC.

[UK SUBS]

I'm with Dazey -- UKIP or Cons. My granddad would be turning in his grave right now!

[Len Cnut]

Sounds like a good man, your Grandad

[Kittiara]

It's going to be really interesting. For purely sentimental reasons, I hope that the "no vote" wins. I love Scotland and I see the Scottish as a part of "us" - the people who all share this rainy, cloudy, beautiful (couple of) island(s) and who share a common history. Sentimentality, though, is not a good enough reason for the people of Scotland to remain in the union. There are some very valid reasons for wanting to leave.

The way Britain is heading is depressing. Increasing inequality, the targetting of the poorest and most vulnerable members of society, a decreasing lack of privacy, business interests overruling humanity... I can't blame Scottish people for wanting something better. As someone who lives in the north of England, I would love it if you could take us with you, and I know that I am far from alone in that!

Sure, it's no doubt not going to be easy. It can even go horribly wrong. That's not to say that you shouldn't try. It's not looking like British politics is heading in a very pleasant direction, and determining your future based on the fear of "what-ifs" is likely to lead to more of the same. Sometimes you've just got to go for it.

Why are British politics necessarily, bleaker, than say, five years ago? I do not understand this point in the slightest. Britain and the sterling has largely survived the global recession, unlike, various Euro zone countries such as Ireland and Spain. Britain is actually, beginning to thrive as an economy - just ask the IMF.

I'm not looking at this from a wholly economic point of view - I am not an economist. I am also not looking at just the past five years. Whilst I have no fondness for the Tories, I also have no fondness for Labour, and the Lib Dems have proven themselves to be just more of the same. What I am looking at is quality of life. It is ridiculous to me that there are plenty of people who work hard, yet they still don't earn enough to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table - they need government top-ups to keep them afloat. There is still an unemployment problem, and an underemployment problem.

The work programme is a costly, unhelpful joke. The so-called "bedroom tax" is ill thought out. Universal Credit and PIP - costly, deeply flawed projects. The Work Capability Assessments - same. Billions have been blown on projects that simply do not work and that, instead of actually helping people, cause a lot of suffering. It's a problem of ideology. I mean, for goodness' sake, politicians refer to people with disabilities and people with physical and mental health problems as "the stock"! And yes, I can offer you a link to that - it's on Iain Duncan Smith's own website. And speaking of people with mental health problems - in some parts of England people with those health problems can expect to wait a year, even two years or more before they receive some treatment and support, as mental health care is woefully underfunded. If people with other health problems had to wait that long, there'd be an outrage. Yet it's those people who are often at the receiving end of benefit sanctions, so that they suddenly find themselves without any money for weeks or months on end, as though that's going to help them get better, or help them eventually get back into work.

Where is the resistance to the TTIP? Have you seen the state of our prisons? More and more we see public services outsourced to the same companies with a terrible track record - companies like G4S, Serco, Atos etc. The right to privacy is being stripped away bit by bit and if you object, well, you must be a terrorist, or a peado - nothing to hide, nothing to fear, right? I could go on, but I think I've anwered your question.

For some people, I am sure that everything is fine. For millions of people, it isn't. They're struggling. And they're not "lazy scroungers" - many of them work really hard. They're not all uneducated - I personally know people with good degrees who are only barely keeping afloat.

We're a wealthy nation, and yet we have food banks. We shouldn't need food banks. People shouldn't be dying because they have no food, or have no electricity, or because they cannot heat their homes in the winter, and yet, it's happened. That, to me, shows that we need to make some drastic changes.

[Facekicker]

I hope whatever Scotland do it works out for them. If they go independent I hope they don't start costing up to Europe and end up taken to the cleaners by those wankers in Brussels.

[Mysteron]

To be honest, I am looking forward to Friday

I came up here for a quiet life. The amount of idiots this has brought out is shocking, the constant knocking at the door, junk mail, people in cars and loudhalers, people stopping you in the street.

The moment this all ends will be heaven

[The Sandman]

In Glasgow at the moment, yes does seem popular!

[Graeme]

In Glasgow at the moment, yes does seem popular!

For the first time, I'm not going to be the only person putting forward this point of view to you, dismissable as "just Graeme being daft". You might be able to see the positive side of the whole thing by actually soaking up the atmosphere rather than taking a detached viewpoint mostly fed to you by the Unionist mainstream media. I will also buy you a drink if you'd like, you won't be able to ignore my arguments then .

[The Sandman]

In Glasgow at the moment, yes does seem popular!

For the first time, I'm not going to be the only person putting forward this point of view to you, dismissable as "just Graeme being daft". You might be able to see the positive side of the whole thing by actually soaking up the atmosphere rather than taking a detached viewpoint mostly fed to you by the Unionist mainstream media. I will also buy you a drink if you'd like, you won't be able to ignore my arguments then .

You about in Glasgow at the minute?! Didn't realise you were close!

[Val22]

Why does Scotland want it's independence from the UK? Is it over taxes?

The way the world is right now, I would want my allies very close.

[Graeme]

In Glasgow at the moment, yes does seem popular!

For the first time, I'm not going to be the only person putting forward this point of view to you, dismissable as "just Graeme being daft". You might be able to see the positive side of the whole thing by actually soaking up the atmosphere rather than taking a detached viewpoint mostly fed to you by the Unionist mainstream media. I will also buy you a drink if you'd like, you won't be able to ignore my arguments then .

You about in Glasgow at the minute?! Didn't realise you were close!

I pass through Glasgow twice a day for work, I was there at the Rangers vs Inverness game tonight, I'll be in town and free from 7pm tomorrow.

[DieselDaisy]

I would vote Tory if they were proper fuckin tories and not lefties - you know, proper hoary old bastards in pin striped suits. Churchill would be ashamed at the current Tory party.

[DieselDaisy]

It's going to be really interesting. For purely sentimental reasons, I hope that the "no vote" wins. I love Scotland and I see the Scottish as a part of "us" - the people who all share this rainy, cloudy, beautiful (couple of) island(s) and who share a common history. Sentimentality, though, is not a good enough reason for the people of Scotland to remain in the union. There are some very valid reasons for wanting to leave.

The way Britain is heading is depressing. Increasing inequality, the targetting of the poorest and most vulnerable members of society, a decreasing lack of privacy, business interests overruling humanity... I can't blame Scottish people for wanting something better. As someone who lives in the north of England, I would love it if you could take us with you, and I know that I am far from alone in that!

Sure, it's no doubt not going to be easy. It can even go horribly wrong. That's not to say that you shouldn't try. It's not looking like British politics is heading in a very pleasant direction, and determining your future based on the fear of "what-ifs" is likely to lead to more of the same. Sometimes you've just got to go for it.

Why are British politics necessarily, bleaker, than say, five years ago? I do not understand this point in the slightest. Britain and the sterling has largely survived the global recession, unlike, various Euro zone countries such as Ireland and Spain. Britain is actually, beginning to thrive as an economy - just ask the IMF.

I'm not looking at this from a wholly economic point of view - I am not an economist. I am also not looking at just the past five years. Whilst I have no fondness for the Tories, I also have no fondness for Labour, and the Lib Dems have proven themselves to be just more of the same. What I am looking at is quality of life. It is ridiculous to me that there are plenty of people who work hard, yet they still don't earn enough to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table - they need government top-ups to keep them afloat. There is still an unemployment problem, and an underemployment problem.

The work programme is a costly, unhelpful joke. The so-called "bedroom tax" is ill thought out. Universal Credit and PIP - costly, deeply flawed projects. The Work Capability Assessments - same. Billions have been blown on projects that simply do not work and that, instead of actually helping people, cause a lot of suffering. It's a problem of ideology. I mean, for goodness' sake, politicians refer to people with disabilities and people with physical and mental health problems as "the stock"! And yes, I can offer you a link to that - it's on Iain Duncan Smith's own website. And speaking of people with mental health problems - in some parts of England people with those health problems can expect to wait a year, even two years or more before they receive some treatment and support, as mental health care is woefully underfunded. If people with other health problems had to wait that long, there'd be an outrage. Yet it's those people who are often at the receiving end of benefit sanctions, so that they suddenly find themselves without any money for weeks or months on end, as though that's going to help them get better, or help them eventually get back into work.

Where is the resistance to the TTIP? Have you seen the state of our prisons? More and more we see public services outsourced to the same companies with a terrible track record - companies like G4S, Serco, Atos etc. The right to privacy is being stripped away bit by bit and if you object, well, you must be a terrorist, or a peado - nothing to hide, nothing to fear, right? I could go on, but I think I've anwered your question.

For some people, I am sure that everything is fine. For millions of people, it isn't. They're struggling. And they're not "lazy scroungers" - many of them work really hard. They're not all uneducated - I personally know people with good degrees who are only barely keeping afloat.

We're a wealthy nation, and yet we have food banks. We shouldn't need food banks. People shouldn't be dying because they have no food, or have no electricity, or because they cannot heat their homes in the winter, and yet, it's happened. That, to me, shows that we need to make some drastic changes.

Well increasing unemployment and worsening standards of living are connected to the economic recession of 2007. Before that we were all, spend spend spend with mass employment generated by a bloated public sector. I assumed that your view upon, some sort of politico-socio deterioration in the United Kingdom was connected with the recession - which, as I pointed out, Britain has weathered rather well.

Unemployment and poor living standards are Inherent to every society that has ever existed in history - even, Scandinavia. Utopias simply do not exist. Some eras seem worse some better, but it always exists. If you think the United Kingdom is bad now, you wouldn't want to see the state of the place in the 1970s, the Winter of Discontent, the Three Day Working Week and the Troubles! The United Kingdom was seen as the 'Sick Man of Europe'; bins went uncollected as militant Unions hijacked the country.

The United Kingdom is a much healthier place than then.

And about the assault on privacy - which, by the way, I completely agree with - socialist parties such as Labour and the SNP are historically a lot more belligerent against privacy than the Tories. Socialism, ideologically, inherently fears privacy.

[Kittiara]

It's going to be really interesting. For purely sentimental reasons, I hope that the "no vote" wins. I love Scotland and I see the Scottish as a part of "us" - the people who all share this rainy, cloudy, beautiful (couple of) island(s) and who share a common history. Sentimentality, though, is not a good enough reason for the people of Scotland to remain in the union. There are some very valid reasons for wanting to leave.

The way Britain is heading is depressing. Increasing inequality, the targetting of the poorest and most vulnerable members of society, a decreasing lack of privacy, business interests overruling humanity... I can't blame Scottish people for wanting something better. As someone who lives in the north of England, I would love it if you could take us with you, and I know that I am far from alone in that!

Sure, it's no doubt not going to be easy. It can even go horribly wrong. That's not to say that you shouldn't try. It's not looking like British politics is heading in a very pleasant direction, and determining your future based on the fear of "what-ifs" is likely to lead to more of the same. Sometimes you've just got to go for it.

Why are British politics necessarily, bleaker, than say, five years ago? I do not understand this point in the slightest. Britain and the sterling has largely survived the global recession, unlike, various Euro zone countries such as Ireland and Spain. Britain is actually, beginning to thrive as an economy - just ask the IMF.

I'm not looking at this from a wholly economic point of view - I am not an economist. I am also not looking at just the past five years. Whilst I have no fondness for the Tories, I also have no fondness for Labour, and the Lib Dems have proven themselves to be just more of the same. What I am looking at is quality of life. It is ridiculous to me that there are plenty of people who work hard, yet they still don't earn enough to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table - they need government top-ups to keep them afloat. There is still an unemployment problem, and an underemployment problem.

The work programme is a costly, unhelpful joke. The so-called "bedroom tax" is ill thought out. Universal Credit and PIP - costly, deeply flawed projects. The Work Capability Assessments - same. Billions have been blown on projects that simply do not work and that, instead of actually helping people, cause a lot of suffering. It's a problem of ideology. I mean, for goodness' sake, politicians refer to people with disabilities and people with physical and mental health problems as "the stock"! And yes, I can offer you a link to that - it's on Iain Duncan Smith's own website. And speaking of people with mental health problems - in some parts of England people with those health problems can expect to wait a year, even two years or more before they receive some treatment and support, as mental health care is woefully underfunded. If people with other health problems had to wait that long, there'd be an outrage. Yet it's those people who are often at the receiving end of benefit sanctions, so that they suddenly find themselves without any money for weeks or months on end, as though that's going to help them get better, or help them eventually get back into work.

Where is the resistance to the TTIP? Have you seen the state of our prisons? More and more we see public services outsourced to the same companies with a terrible track record - companies like G4S, Serco, Atos etc. The right to privacy is being stripped away bit by bit and if you object, well, you must be a terrorist, or a peado - nothing to hide, nothing to fear, right? I could go on, but I think I've anwered your question.

For some people, I am sure that everything is fine. For millions of people, it isn't. They're struggling. And they're not "lazy scroungers" - many of them work really hard. They're not all uneducated - I personally know people with good degrees who are only barely keeping afloat.

We're a wealthy nation, and yet we have food banks. We shouldn't need food banks. People shouldn't be dying because they have no food, or have no electricity, or because they cannot heat their homes in the winter, and yet, it's happened. That, to me, shows that we need to make some drastic changes.

Well increasing unemployment and worsening standards of living are connected to the economic recession of 2007. Before that we were all, spend spend spend with mass employment generated by a bloated public sector. I assumed that your view upon, some sort of politico-socio deterioration in the United Kingdom was connected with the recession - which, as I pointed out, Britain has weathered rather well.

Unemployment and poor living standards are Inherent to every society that has ever existed in history - even, Scandinavia. Utopias simply do not exist. Some eras seem worse some better, but it always exists. If you think the United Kingdom is bad now, you wouldn't want to see the state of the place in the 1970s, the Winter of Discontent, the Three Day Working Week and the Troubles! The United Kingdom was seen as the 'Sick Man of Europe'; bins went uncollected as militant Unions hijacked the country.

The United Kingdom is a much healthier place than then.

And about the assault on privacy - which, by the way, I completely agree with - socialist parties such as Labour and the SNP are historically a lot more belligerent against privacy than the Tories. Socialism, ideologically, inherently fears privacy.

I would readily agree that, yes, the economic recession has had a major impact, but I do also think that ideology is a factor. And it's not an ideology I like or agree with. Unfortunately, it's an ideology that isn't limited to the Conservative Party - Labour and the Lib Dems are just as bad. The DWP projects, after all, make no sense from an economic point of view. Billions have been spent on these projects, with no good results for anyone but the private companies hired to carry out said projects - and even Atos, who I have no respect for, eventually had enough of the WCAs. They're making us look bad on an international platform as well.

I'm all for helping people back into work, and I'm certainly not opposed to health assessments for people on benefits, but any measures taken have to be sensible, rational and humane. And, well, they have to actually have a positive impact! This whole pitching "hardworking families" against the "feckless scoungers" is an issue of ideology, as is labeling people with disabilities and physical and mental health problems as "the stock" - less than human.

I agree that utopias do not exist. I also agree that the situation has been worse, and that no country is immune to problems. That doesn't mean that I like the direction our political parties are currently heading in. They appear to be battling it out about who can be the harshest, who will take the toughest measures. We should be lifting people up instead of grinding them down. If you always expect the worst of people, you're never going to bring out the best in them.

I'll admit to not knowing much about the SNP, but I agree that Labour was a nightmare when it came to the right to privacy. In the last election, I was stupid enough to believe that the Lib Dems were sensible (on this issue and others), which is a lesson learned.

[The Sandman]

In Glasgow at the moment, yes does seem popular!

For the first time, I'm not going to be the only person putting forward this point of view to you, dismissable as "just Graeme being daft". You might be able to see the positive side of the whole thing by actually soaking up the atmosphere rather than taking a detached viewpoint mostly fed to you by the Unionist mainstream media. I will also buy you a drink if you'd like, you won't be able to ignore my arguments then .

You about in Glasgow at the minute?! Didn't realise you were close!

I pass through Glasgow twice a day for work, I was there at the Rangers vs Inverness game tonight, I'll be in town and free from 7pm tomorrow.

Will see if I can hit you up after the conference stuff finishes.

It'd be like Salmond against Darling without the jowls or eyebrows.

[Dazey]

I'll admit to not knowing much about the SNP, but I agree that Labour was a nightmare when it came to the right to privacy. In the last election, I was stupid enough to believe that the Lib Dems were sensible (on this issue and others), which is a lesson learned.

Can somebody please explain to me what the Lib Dems have done that's sooooooooooo bad? I mean as far as I can see the worst that can be levelled at them is that they've not really done a lot and delivered on all their election promises. I mean duh! As the minority partner in a COALITION what do people really expect?

[Len Cnut]

The way the world is right now, I would want my allies very close.

I dont think sock puppets that you've named count

[The Sandman]

I'll admit to not knowing much about the SNP, but I agree that Labour was a nightmare when it came to the right to privacy. In the last election, I was stupid enough to believe that the Lib Dems were sensible (on this issue and others), which is a lesson learned.

Can somebody please explain to me what the Lib Dems have done that's sooooooooooo bad? I mean as far as I can see the worst that can be levelled at them is that they've not really done a lot and delivered on all their election promises. I mean duh! As the minority partner in a COALITION what do people really expect?

Betrayed everyone: see everything they used to believe in and university fees etc.