Wrestling Thread Vol. 3

[AtariLegend]

Ziggler just isn't that over (enough) with the crowd anymore. That pop he got on the Raw after Mania was years ago.

Since then people just got tired of him losing and his bad promos. His entire gimmick is that he over sells every match. His persona is not that great too for a star especially the entrance where he wiggles his ass at the crowd emulating Billy Gunn of all people. The guy makes more headlines for saying stupid stuff on social media these days.

I'm surprised though they'd bringing up that Ziggler performance in that match at Survivor Series in 2014 that was about putting the authority out off power (lasted like 2 weeks) when they're trying to promote Shane/Taker with a similar stipulation. 

Edited March 11, 2016 by AtariLegend

[bacardimayne]

20 hours ago, Conor said:

Almost as if he doesn't have terrible writers for the Raw fallout show. This is why Owens, New Day and Ziggler are able to show some actual character in these.

But Owens and New Day are also good on TV. What gives?

[Bono]

2 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

I haven't watched Lucha in like 3 weeks, unfortunately. 

Also since when does Cena get booed? Maybe once every 100 shows. Cena is great, problem is he shouldn't have to carry the brand 24/7/365.

 

Cena gets booed EVERY show. The fan reaction has been evenly split for years. Once every 100 shows? You'd have to watch only once every 100 shows to think he doesn't get booed on a very regular basis........ Let's Go Cena! Cena Sucks! Let's Go Cena! Cena Sucks! 

[Conor]

4 hours ago, bacardimayne said:

But Owens and New Day are also good on TV. What gives?

For sure, but there's still a noticeable difference when they're on the backstage stuff. Plus, Owens doesn't have to say much in the way of promos during the show anymore, and Vince doesn't understand black people enough to have ideas for New Day. 

I'm not saying Ziggler's great and should be right up there, his moment has long passed, but he desperately needs something to change his character because he is one of the most stale things of the last few years. Arguably getting worse, too.

[sturginho]

Damn Cage!

https://twitter.com/Jocay19/status/707740225133531139/photo/1

Edited March 11, 2016 by sturginho

[AtariLegend]

People like Owens/Ambrose/Bryan/Rollins ect have actually headlined shows before, not just NXT. Before each of them joined WWE they were headlining indy shows across the world.

Ziggler's never been in a position where a show depended on him, everything he's learned came from WWE. He missed the journey man experience the others has and doesn't have great personal judgement.

Women vs. Men matches make me uncomfortable. It's not a sexism thing, there's a reason why it doesn't happen in real combat sports.

Edited March 11, 2016 by AtariLegend

[sturginho]

wrestling is not a real combat sport though

[Conor]

32 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

Women vs. Men matches make me uncomfortable. It's not a sexism thing, there's a reason why it doesn't happen in real combat sports.

Not wanting to see Bubba Ray Dudley put Mae Young through a table.

[username]

49 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

Women vs. Men matches make me uncomfortable. It's not a sexism thing, there's a reason why it doesn't happen in real combat sports.

Call me old-fashioned, but I'd love to see a woman get powerbombed through a table every now and again. To me the key is having them get their revenge. It all comes down to the way it's booked. Or, in Steph's case, just seeing her get what's coming to her. Chyna was once the IC champ. Wouldn't it be cool to see someone else achieve that? Yes, Chyna is a genetic freak with her clobbering clit of doom, but when booked right it can be done. 

 

I'm all for equality. 

[username]

The entire diva's division vs BROCK LESNAR for WM33. 

[AtariLegend]

2 hours ago, username said:

Call me old-fashioned, but I'd love to see a woman get powerbombed through a table every now and again.

That's a woman getting hit/attacked. A helpless Trish getting put through a table by the Dudleys is not the same as the Lucha Underground thing. Not what I meant by Women vs. Man match.

The Chyna thing itself didn't go over in the end and only lasted a year. Not everyone liked it and it's not realistic having Kurt Angle for example getting beat up by Chyna. Jericho wasn't too happy with it either and it was used as a way (not that anyone cared at the time) to bury Jarret. 

Anyone here want to see Triple H selling a beat down by Sasha Banks, how about Paige beating Ziggler clean? Wrestling matches are at their best when they're simulating a combat sport.

Sure a Ronda Rousey could beat your average man on the streets, you think though it'd be fair to put her against Conor Mcgregor?

Edited March 11, 2016 by AtariLegend

[Gunner55]

Vince Russo on Austin's podcast. I love listening to that guy talk. 

Bro. Bro. Hey bro. Man. Bro! 

[moreblack]

1 hour ago, Gunner55 said:

Vince Russo on Austin's podcast. I love listening to that guy talk. 

Bro. Bro. Hey bro. Man. Bro! 

And again, Bro, I'm telling you, Here's the thing people don't understand etc...

[sturginho]

Johnny Mundo mentios a deal in the offing to show Lucha Underground in the UK: http://uproxx.com/prowrestling/johnny-mundo-interview-lucha-underground-sxsw/ Will be very pleased if true!

 

[Bono]

I gotta admit when I watched this my reaction to HHH hitting Lita from behind was a bit of shock. The Stone Cold's chair shots afterwards. Haha It's so crazy how much WWE has changed since those days. In some ways the changes have been good. I have no doubt I loved this back then but looking at it now I think it's good this kind of stuff isn't part of WWE anymore. 

 

Edited March 11, 2016 by Bono

[axlslash]

26 minutes ago, Bono said:

I gotta admit when I watched this my reaction to HHH hitting Lita from behind was a bit of shock. The Stone Cold's chair shots afterwards. Haha It's so crazy how much WWE has changed since those days. In some ways the changes have been good. I have no doubt I loved this back then but looking at it now I think it's good this kind of stuff isn't part of WWE anymore. 

 

So for me, the biggest problem with this sort of thing is the way they present Lita. If she got up, squared up with H, they exchanged blows, each sold the other's shots, and H won, that would be fine. But having the toughest female wrestler in the company on her knees begging for mercy is just pathetic. I think you can do an even-keel mixed-gender match. It needs to be body types that line up (I'm not going to buy Brie beating up Lesnar any more than I'd believe Kalisto beating him up), but Charlotte-Ziggler, Becky-AJ, Sasha-Neville, Paige-Kalisto, Team Bad-Usos? I think those sorts of matchups could actually make for some fun matches. It has to be done tastefully, and can't turn into "men beating up women" as much as "mutual combat." Part of the risk, though, is that the women would have to go over almost every time, at least early on, in order head off the domestic violence criticisms. That's going to make the matches predictable, and it's going to piss off a lot of the WWE fans ho will complain that WWE is turning into feminazis, wrestling shouldn't be political etc. (notwithstanding the League of Nations, Rusev's whole background, Muhammed Hassan, the Iron Sheikh, Nikolai Volkov...). Over time, though, having Steph in such a prominent role I think will eventually force the issue and bring an interesting perspective.

[Bono]

It would never work. the only reason it "worked" with Chyna was because she was a freak and even then it  was ridiculous. You say you wouldn't believe Bri against Lesnar well watching Lita throw punches at HHH is exactly the same thing pretty much. Way too far beyond the scope of reality to even be enjoyable. Charlotte vs Ziggler?  Sasha vs Neville etc etc meh those don't work either.  It just doesn't work. Nor should it.  the way Lita was booked in this clip is believable. Her going toe to toe even for a short time before losing would've been incredibly stupid. her begging for mercy on her knees lends credibility to the "danger" of the situation. Mixed gender matches would be awful. 

Edited March 11, 2016 by Bono

[moreblack]

Yeah but everyone knows it's not real, nobody's really expecting combat accuracy or reality. We're not watching real fights here, more like stunt storytelling.

[axlslash]

1 hour ago, moreblack said:

Yeah but everyone knows it's not real, nobody's really expecting combat accuracy or reality. We're not watching real fights here, more like stunt storytelling.

This. Someone of HHH's build or Brock's build would annihilate the already-crippled Ambrose in a matter of minutes. And yet both of those matches are going to happen, and they'll be competitive, and Ambrose will win at least one of them. The matchups I listed aren't realistic. They're believable enough, though, at least as believable as literally any match that Andre ever lost.

[moreblack]

1 hour ago, axlslash said:

This. Someone of HHH's build or Brock's build would annihilate the already-crippled Ambrose in a matter of minutes. And yet both of those matches are going to happen, and they'll be competitive, and Ambrose will win at least one of them. The matchups I listed aren't realistic. They're believable enough, though, at least as believable as literally any match that Andre ever lost.

In all honesty it wouldn't be any more farfetched than Rey Mysterio winning the title and defending it against guys like Big Show and Batista, or Kalisto beating Ryback.

[axlslash]

1 hour ago, moreblack said:

In all honesty it wouldn't be any more farfetched than Rey Mysterio winning the title and defending it against guys like Big Show and Batista, or Kalisto beating Ryback.

Nothing could be more far-fetched than "No one could pin Nikki Bella for almost a year, but Roman Reigns can't hold the belt for more than 45 seconds"

[moreblack]

26 minutes ago, axlslash said:

Nothing could be more far-fetched than "No one could pin Nikki Bella for almost a year, but Roman Reigns can't hold the belt for more than 45 seconds"

Half of that was also that she defended it even less than Brock Lesnar.

[bacardimayne]

WM 28 - HHH vs. Taker HIAC - End of an Era

Four years later, HHH and Taker are in the top two WM matches and one of them is a HIAC.

[Conor]

9 minutes ago, bacardimayne said:

WM 28 - HHH vs. Taker HIAC - End of an Era

Four years later, HHH and Taker are in the top two WM matches and one of them is a HIAC.

Clearly that was about JR.

[Bono]

8 hours ago, axlslash said:

This. Someone of HHH's build or Brock's build would annihilate the already-crippled Ambrose in a matter of minutes. And yet both of those matches are going to happen, and they'll be competitive, and Ambrose will win at least one of them. The matchups I listed aren't realistic. They're believable enough, though, at least as believable as literally any match that Andre ever lost.

I don't agree. There is NOTHING believable about Charlotte vs Ziggler or any of the others you mentioned.  Royce Gracie proved that smaller men can in fact defeat much larger men in REAL hand to hand combat. It's not inconcievable that a man Ambrose's size could beat a guy Brock's size. There is nothing remotely believeable about Sasha Banks defeating or even standing a chance against a person like Neville.  As for Andre no way in a real fight a guy like Macho Man or say Kurt Angle wouldn't have beat a guy like Andre.  Randy Couture at 40 somthing beat Tim Silva. The size difference there was huge but  there's no way in hell a Ronda Rousey stands a chance against a guy close to her size like a GSP or even smaller guy liek Connor McGregor or Frankie Edgar. Mal vs female in "fighting" is just so far beyond the realm of realism it's not even fun to entertain. Might as well just go watch Fast N the Furious haha. 

Agree to disagree but male vs male story lines no matter how unbelievable will always be a million times more believable than women vs men.