Lio Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 maybe Marine Le Pan (and other European far right politicians) finest hour is not that far offExactly what I was thinking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsguy Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) breaking... a car has exploded outside a synagogue in paris not sure related Edited January 7, 2015 by gunsguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock4eva Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 As predicted the hoax videos are already up. They are all crisis actors blah blah blahI'm going to bed before I sign into youtube and tell them exactly what I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 maybe Marine Le Pan (and other European far right politicians) finest hour is not that far offYup.Wtf do these Muslim extremists hope to accomplish? If they hate France so much, why are they there and sponging off the state? Fucking apocalyptic mindset, all-out war is exactly what these nutjobs want, same with a lot on the far-right too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 We tend to idolize people who fight for our freedom, our rights, our way of living. Veterans of war, war correspondents, UN personell, doctors without borders... I'm going to add those journalists in Europe who after this horrible attack still dare to level the same amount of criticism and satire on Islam and extremism as they level on other religions, ideologies, political parties, ideas and public figures. They are now my heroes.I was a bit quick here. I didn't mean "the same amount of criticism" literally. The amount of criticism levelled at anything should be in relation to how bad it is. I don't think, say, Zen Buddhism should be subjected to the same amount of criticism as ISIL. Right now, as far as offsprings of religions go, I can't think of anything deserving more criticism than radical islamism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Why not respect their religious taboo? What's the harm? Not defending these monsters at all, but it's awfully arrogant of the West to make so light of something that so many take very seriously. It's like serving a Jew pork or shellfish just to be a dick. There are plenty of ways to criticize ISIS and its ilk.I'm sure this isn't going to be a popular post, but I thought people should try to see at least a little nuance in the issue. Now who's going to be the first person to say I'm excusing the murders? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coma16 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Why not respect their religious taboo? What's the harm? Not defending these monsters at all, but it's awfully arrogant of the West to make so light of something that so many take very seriously. It's like serving a Jew pork or shellfish just to be a dick. There are plenty of ways to criticize ISIS and its ilk.I'm sure this isn't going to be a popular post, but I thought people should try to see at least a little nuance in the issue. Now who's going to be the first person to say I'm excusing the murders? I would have liked this post but i've run out (stupid non-supporter I am). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Why not respect their religious taboo? What's the harm? Not defending these monsters at all, but it's awfully arrogant of the West to make so light of something that so many take very seriously. It's like serving a Jew pork or shellfish just to be a dick. There are plenty of ways to criticize ISIS and its ilk.I'm sure this isn't going to be a popular post, but I thought people should try to see at least a little nuance in the issue. Now who's going to be the first person to say I'm excusing the murders? West makes fun of Christianity and Judaism all the time. There was a time when releasing the Life of Brian was a huge deal. Now it's only a tiny minority of mostly harmless nutjobs who protest films that mock Christianity. Let's hope we reach the same stage with Islam in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Why not respect their religious taboo? What's the harm? Not defending these monsters at all, but it's awfully arrogant of the West to make so light of something that so many take very seriously. It's like serving a Jew pork or shellfish just to be a dick. There are plenty of ways to criticize ISIS and its ilk.I'm sure this isn't going to be a popular post, but I thought people should try to see at least a little nuance in the issue. Now who's going to be the first person to say I'm excusing the murders? West makes fun of Christianity and Judaism all the time. There was a time when releasing the Life of Brian was a huge deal. Now it's only a tiny minority of mostly harmless nutjobs who protest films that mock Christianity. Let's hope we reach the same stage with Islam in the future.But the taboo is specifically about images of the prophet. Make fun of it all you like, but that's a very specific thing, so why not respect it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lio Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Why not respect their religious taboo? What's the harm? Not defending these monsters at all, but it's awfully arrogant of the West to make so light of something that so many take very seriously. It's like serving a Jew pork or shellfish just to be a dick. There are plenty of ways to criticize ISIS and its ilk.I'm sure this isn't going to be a popular post, but I thought people should try to see at least a little nuance in the issue. Now who's going to be the first person to say I'm excusing the murders? West makes fun of Christianity and Judaism all the time. There was a time when releasing the Life of Brian was a huge deal. Now it's only a tiny minority of mostly harmless nutjobs who protest films that mock Christianity. Let's hope we reach the same stage with Islam in the future.This.Plus, we find freedom of speech kind of important over here, I think it's something worth fighting (though preferably without deadly weapons) for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Obviously I don't think there should be laws against it, but taking the one taboo and stretching it to say, "Oh, now we're not allowed to say anything bad about you or make fun of you" is disingenuous and plain incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Why not respect their religious taboo? What's the harm? Not defending these monsters at all, but it's awfully arrogant of the West to make so light of something that so many take very seriously. It's like serving a Jew pork or shellfish just to be a dick. There are plenty of ways to criticize ISIS and its ilk.I'm sure this isn't going to be a popular post, but I thought people should try to see at least a little nuance in the issue. Now who's going to be the first person to say I'm excusing the murders? Because people don't have a right not to be offended. Wankers have even less of a right than anybody else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Why not respect their religious taboo? What's the harm? Not defending these monsters at all, but it's awfully arrogant of the West to make so light of something that so many take very seriously. It's like serving a Jew pork or shellfish just to be a dick. There are plenty of ways to criticize ISIS and its ilk.I'm sure this isn't going to be a popular post, but I thought people should try to see at least a little nuance in the issue. Now who's going to be the first person to say I'm excusing the murders? Criticism is vital for progress (just think of Soviet). Free speech includes the right to criticise and question in various forms, including dressed up as satire and mockery. We are not going to not criticise religions/ideologies/political ideas/customs/traditions/etc simply because the targets of criticism consider it to be taboo. If we allow people to say, "don't criticise us, we don't like it", "don't criticise us, it violates religious taboos", or "don't criticise us, the subject is holy", we would basically give away our right to criticise anyone because anyone could stop us using similar arguments. So this is an important principle and a pillar in both freedom of speech and modern democratic societies. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlisOld Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Why not respect their religious taboo? What's the harm? Not defending these monsters at all, but it's awfully arrogant of the West to make so light of something that so many take very seriously. It's like serving a Jew pork or shellfish just to be a dick. There are plenty of ways to criticize ISIS and its ilk.I'm sure this isn't going to be a popular post, but I thought people should try to see at least a little nuance in the issue. Now who's going to be the first person to say I'm excusing the murders? No, it's like eating pork or shellfish. Jews cannot eat that, but non Jews can. Muslims cannot depict Mohammed, non Muslims can.And I'm sorry, are cartoons insensitive in the midst of all the beheadings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB. Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Because there is such a thing of freedom of speech. It's a principle issue.You can say maybe it's more polite not to. But we still should be allowed to do it and not get killed over.The bible says not to curse: "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." (KJV).[1]We don't actually respect that anymore now right. Well maybe it's more polite not to curse in church or in the presence of a very christian person and most of wouldn't do that out of politeness. But I still can, if I want to and I shouldn't get killed over as well.We had Theo van Gogh killed in 2004 for making a movie criticizing islam. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)And in this case as well. It's just freedom of speech and we should protect that, even when we don't like what is said. Now I don't like that there are nazi's who spread their bullshit, but it should still be possible. They are allowed to their opinion. It's our freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lio Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Because there is such a thing of freedom of speech. It's a principle issue.You can say maybe it's more polite not to. But we still should be allowed to do it and not get killed over.The bible says not to curse: "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." (KJV).[1]We don't actually respect that anymore now right. Well maybe it's more polite not to curse in church or in the presence of a very christian person and most of wouldn't do that out of politeness. But I still can, if I want to and I shouldn't get killed over as well.We had Theo van Gogh killed in 2004 for making a movie criticizing islam.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)And in this case as well. It's just freedom of speech and we should protect that, even when we don't like what is said. Now I don't like that there are nazi's who spread their bullshit, but it should still be possible. They are allowed to their opinion. It's our freedom.Or, as Voltaire so eloquently put it :Je ne suis pas d’accord avec ce que vous dites, mais je me battrai jusqu’à la mort pour que vous ayez le droit de le dire. (I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Scientology has a shit ton of taboos and customs we don't respect, and rightfully so because they're batshit crazy. Why treat any other faith differently? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Scientology has a shit ton of taboos and customs we don't respect, and rightfully so because they're batshit crazy. Why treat any other faith differently?Especially when the basic teachings of any major religion are no less ridiculous than Scientology. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 People have to be aware of consequences when they offend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyrobot Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Religions are prisons for souls and minds. I cannot explain the desdain I feel for religions, religious views and these fuckin' extremists.Seriously, how can you believe in things that do not exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Why not respect their religious taboo? What's the harm? Not defending these monsters at all, but it's awfully arrogant of the West to make so light of something that so many take very seriously. It's like serving a Jew pork or shellfish just to be a dick. There are plenty of ways to criticize ISIS and its ilk.I'm sure this isn't going to be a popular post, but I thought people should try to see at least a little nuance in the issue. Now who's going to be the first person to say I'm excusing the murders? You're technically right. In fact I'm all for respecting people's religious beliefs to the extent where it doesn't harm or is pushed upon others. But there's irony in this. People do satire because of terrorists. People do terrorism because of satire. Vicious circle. However, I also believe it's always wrong to answer words with violence.Then there's the hypocrisy. Ok, so someone insulted your prophet. That really sucks for you. But I bet these guys wouldn't be very respectful themselves when someone is starting a church or wearing a cross around their neck. Mind you, I find that many Muslims are very respectful towards Christians. But those Muslims aren't extremist idiots. I will absolutely respect others and their beliefs. But not when the act isn't mutual. They're violent and they're very hypocritical. Dangerous combination. Edited January 7, 2015 by username 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Again, guys, no one is saying anything about not criticizing, and the fact that that's your go-to might just say a little bit about your argument. And no one, in this thread at least, is saying anything about not being allowed to do something. I'm just saying it's an easy thing not to do, this SPECIFIC issue of representing the prophet, so why not just go about things any million of other ways.And why are we starting to go down the line of saying, "Well, they wouldn't respect Christianity or Judaism, so......"? Since when do we want to line up our morals and ethics with those nutbags? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB. Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Ofcourse there could be another way as well. But they chose this one. Journalist should be allowed to and not be at risk of getting killed. It doesn't matter in what way they criticize, it should be possible in every way. Like I said, maybe it's not polite or respectful but it should be possible.Why they chose this way, a very dangerous way I don't know. Probably out of principle I guess. But it all comes down to the same thing: freedom of speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 No, it doesn't come down to freedom of speech. These journalist made the cartoons, they weren't arrested, and if someone made the same cartoon tomorrow, no one would be arrested. There is no freedom of speech issue here whatsoever. They are allowed to make them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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