SoulMonster Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 37 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I play guitar. Nope, never seen evidence of these inflated guitar skills of Fortus, and I've seen Nugnr two times and have the Dead Daisies album. He might be slightly better than Gilby in the lead department, but the way it is portrayed here as if there is this massive discrepancy between Gilby's and Richard's playing, which I do not see. Besides, it is not about skills per se, but chemistry. Stradlin might not be considered a 'good guitarist' by certain segments of the population, an opinion I do not hold myself, yet he is perfect for Guns and Slash. You could stick Bucket in there alongside Slash and it will not have the magic that Slash and Izzy had. Gilby and Slash obviously had a good chemistry on the Illusion tour. Oh well, I am not going to argue the extent of how much better of a guitarist Richard is compared to Gilby. Who we think are "perfect" for Guns N' Roses depends entirely upon what direction we want to band to head in and our own personal musical preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterDay7 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I'd quite like to be Gilby Clarke actually. Done some interesting stiff, seems pleasant yet def not famous enough to attract attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 7 minutes ago, BetterDay7 said: I'd quite like to be Gilby Clarke actually. Done some interesting stiff, seems pleasant yet def not famous enough to attract attention. And with a singularly unique take on the lead to SCOM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulnar Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) I have nothing at all against Richard Fortus, and he is objectively a very good guitar player, no doubt. Personally speaking, however (and I know full well this is not everyone's opinion) I've never had much interest in the 'NuGNR' years, in whatever format. To me it will always be Axl's solo band. There's been some exceptional musicians (Bucket, Bumble are incredibly skilled guitar players, whether you like their style or not) and some very good solid players too, and they put out a decent record somehow & somewhere along the line with some frankenstein combination of line ups. But it was Axl's band. Not GNR. Not to me, anyway. And I know I'm not alone with that sentiment. So, here we have a resolution of sorts that can bring the classic band back into the picture. For me, if Axl, Duff & Slash are confirmed, then the first choice drummer & 2nd guitar are Steven & Izzy. Second choice, Matt & Gilby. You can argue over who is better technically til you're blue in the face. Or, indeed, whether Frank or Richard deserve it more 'cos they've been there for the past 10 years. It just seems such a waste that the others would get together and settle for a line up that spans the 2 distinct eras. And I know Gilby was a replacement, but he filled Izzy's shoes perfectly, and was a big part of their heyday. As was Matt (though I confess to being less of a fan of his work than of Adler's, credit where it's due). When you add to that the fact that they're all clearly friends, and even played the R&R HOF together, and regularly play together at things like Kings Of Chaos gigs or charity events, etc, it just feels a bit wrong that they're not there. Of course, the other side of the coin is that Axl obviously wants to respect & reward Richard & Frank's loyalty. To the best of our knowledge, they're the two that haven't quit since we last saw the band publicly. (I'm not even going to get into the Pitman situation) And of course that's valid, too. They're his friends, and he wants to stand by them. But put it this way, if Slash had brought Axl & Duff into The Conspirators but left Brent Fitz & Frankie whats-his-name in their current roles, and called that Guns N' Roses* (*with Axl's permission ) , people would be - if not equally frustrated - then perhaps even more so. Furious even. I'm sure Richard & Frank will be more than capable of holding their own in this line up, they're both very good at what they do. But the point that so many people have made over & over on this forum is that it's just not GN'R. Despite being replacements, it does feel that Matt & Gilby were GN'R. Perhaps only because they were there at the bands' height. Perhaps because they played alongside the iconic front duo that everyone's getting excited to see again. Perhaps all sorts of reasons. For all we know, they may have had the opportunity & passed on it - or they may still guest - who knows? Perhaps Fortus & Frank will play amazingly next to Slash & Duff & this time next month we'll be going Izzy Who? I'm kidding. I doubt it, but lets remember, we really know nothing for definite until the last notes have rung out in Vegas... Edited March 15, 2016 by Ulnar EDIT FOR SPELLING & CLARITY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said: I play guitar. Nope, never seen evidence of these inflated guitar skills of Fortus, and I've seen Nugnr two times and have the Dead Daisies album. He might be slightly better than Gilby in the lead department, but the way it is portrayed here as if there is this massive discrepancy between Gilby's and Richard's playing, which I do not see. Besides, it is not about skills per se, but chemistry. Stradlin might not be considered a 'good guitarist' by certain segments of the population, an opinion I do not hold myself, yet he is perfect for Guns and Slash. You could stick Bucket in there alongside Slash and it will not have the magic that Slash and Izzy had. Gilby and Slash obviously had a good chemistry on the Illusion tour. Diesel mate, Fortus runs fucking rings around that bellend Gilby Clarke. I'm sorry, but he just does. You not having seen this for yourself is not really a valid argument to the contrary (google Fortus's playing), but there is a reason why so many folks in this thread rate Fortus over Gilby, and it's because he's in a different league as a guitar player and musician. It perplexes me how anyone could feel passionate enough about Gilby Clarke to argue his case for being back in the band. He's a rudimentary player, only just above Dj Ashba in terms of ability. And even then, it's a close one. Edited March 15, 2016 by Towelie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadApples87 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Pawn Shop Gutiars, Cure Me or Kill Me Wild Horses, a corvette, and Patience good times 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Pawn Shop Guitars is a horrible album. It is collecting dust in my drawers. What a waste of $$$ that was (except for Dead Flowers, only because of Axl) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 13 minutes ago, Towelie said: Diesel mate, Fortus runs fucking rings around that bellend Gilby Clarke. I'm sorry, but he just does. Whether you haven't seen this for yourself is not really a valid argument to the contrary (google Fortus's playing), but there is a reason why so many folks in this thread rate Fortus over Gilby, and it's because he's in a different league as a guitar player and musician. It perplexes me how anyone could feel passionate enough about Gilby Clarke to argue his case for being back in the band. He's a rudimentary player, only just above Dj Ashba in terms of ability. And even then, it's a close one. Psst, I have a theory: Diesel is a traditionalist who yearns for everything old, including GN'R lineups and past members, regardless of whether they on their own merit were actually better musicians but purely because of the value of tradition. I understand and acknowledge that many may prefer Gilby over Richard due to Gilby having a different playign style, or looks, or whatever, but in Diesel's case I am afraid it is entirely due to Gilby having precedence over Richard. As for comparing Gilby with Dj, did Dj ever fuck up anything as badly as Gilby fucked up the intro to SCOM? And before anyone posts the video of Dj playing that intro out of tune, was it remotely as bad as the concert video of Gilby playing the wrong notes repeatedly? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercool Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 gilby or fortus, it doesn't matter as far I'm concerned, both are replacements. the only thing that would make a difference is izzy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercool Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 12 minutes ago, killuridols said: Pawn Shop Guitars is a horrible album. It is collecting dust in my drawers. What a waste of $$$ that was (except for Dead Flowers, only because of Axl) gilby is a better songwriter than fortus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 2 minutes ago, supercool said: gilby is a better songwriter than fortus. Make me hear Gilby's opuses, please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosaj Thing Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Gilby is far superior than Richard 'I play whatever you want for the right amount of money' Fortus. Too bad he was not considered for the reunion shows. Maybe Richard is the cheaper option. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 25 minutes ago, Nosaj Thing said: Gilby is far superior than Richard 'I play whatever you want for the right amount of money' Fortus. Too bad he was not considered for the reunion shows. Maybe Richard is the cheaper option. The fact that Richard CAN play whatever we want sort of demonstrates his superiority as a guitarist compared to Gilby Richard is an amazingly adept guitarist able to play many kinds of music, Gilby is a more or less one trick pony. Again, you may prefer Gilby's playing over Richard's -- all good! -- but no one in their right mind would think Gilby is a better guitarist than Richard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I do wonder how many of these guys saying that Gilby is a superior guitarist actually play themselves. And I don't just mean owning a guitar and knowing a few chords and a couple of pentatonic licks. I don't wanna come across like a music snob or anything, but it just beggars belief that some people can't see the difference in quality between Gilby and Fortus, I mean, it's night and day. Slash and DJ type difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom-Ass Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 1 hour ago, SoulMonster said: And with a singularly unique take on the lead to SCOM. No one would him top play the fucking lead on SCOM in Guns.. Just play Rhythm.. I hope Fortus is prepared to do just that as well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 10 minutes ago, Towelie said: I do wonder how many of these guys saying that Gilby is a superior guitarist actually play themselves. And I don't just mean owning a guitar and knowing a few chords and a couple of pentatonic licks. I don't wanna come across like a music snob or anything, but it just beggars belief that some people can't see the difference in quality between Gilby and Fortus, I mean, it's night and day. Slash and DJ type difference. That's kind of like saying we can't comment on the NFL or NHL because we never played.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Towelie said: Diesel mate, Fortus runs fucking rings around that bellend Gilby Clarke. I'm sorry, but he just does. You not having seen this for yourself is not really a valid argument to the contrary (google Fortus's playing), but there is a reason why so many folks in this thread rate Fortus over Gilby, and it's because he's in a different league as a guitar player and musician. It perplexes me how anyone could feel passionate enough about Gilby Clarke to argue his case for being back in the band. He's a rudimentary player, only just above Dj Ashba in terms of ability. And even then, it's a close one. You do not need a guitarist who 'runs rings around' anyone. Izzy 'does not run rings around' anyone and is the truest occupant for that position. You need a rhythmic counterpoint to Slash - Slash will be playing lead. Pawnshop Guitars is better than any solo album without Izzy on the front cover, and that includes the nugnr shit. If there is one reason why people prefer Gilby, it might be just that and that he actually was in old gnr rather than just be a hired hack like Fortus. Gilby played the Illusion tour and The Spaghetti Incident. He played the Paris PPV and the Tokyo VHS. We know what Slash-Gilby sounds like because we have ample evidence. To include Gilby and Sorum will recreate the Illusion line-up, which is second to the Appetite line-up but infinitely better than what we have now which is a sort of hybrid fudgey mess of a reunion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundOfAGun Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, SoulMonster said: And with a singularly unique take on the lead to SCOM. I know; can't he hear what he is playing? Apart from that though, I always thought he was solid. Cure me or kill me has a kick ass riff. Edited March 15, 2016 by SoundOfAGun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofnazareth Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Gilby has 'feeling' in his playing. You can't learn that...that comes from life experiences. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 29 minutes ago, SoundOfAGun said: I know; can't he hear what he is playing? Apart from that though, I always thought he was solid. Cure me or kill me has a kick ass riff. I agree completely, and I was just jesting about that SCOM video - I love Gilby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Tom-Ass said: No one would him top play the fucking lead on SCOM in Guns.. Just play Rhythm.. I hope Fortus is prepared to do just that as well.. I am sure Richard is prepared for that. He is a a consumate professional. That being said, with two guitar players of such caliber as Richard and Slash, and such compatible styles where they fullfill eachother, I hope they use this unique opportunity to change things up a bit. Sure, Slash should play those iconic solos he is known for (SCOM, NR, Estranged, etc), but Richard could come forward and play some lead, too, or add memorable second guitar to songs. Take GN'R forward, not just replicate whatever Izzy did. This is an outstanding opportunity to mix things up a bit, be creative, create next.generation versions of GN'R songs. It is a unique opportunity, I hope they don't just squander it by insisting that Richard should stay in the background. Then they might as well bring in someone more boring than Richard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofnazareth Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Gilby is a chord change master just like Izzy...these guys write chord changes which result in great songs. Songs like Black, Shut Up and Let's Get Lost have amazing chord changes....all of his songs on Pawnshop Guitars do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 12 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: I am sure Richard is prepared for that. He is a a consumate professional. That being said, with two guitar players of such caliber as Richard and Slash, and such compatible styles where they fullfill eachother, I hope they use this unique opportunity to change things up a bit. Sure, Slash should play those iconic solos he is known for (SCOM, NR, Estranged, etc), but Richard could come forward and play some lead, too, or add memorable second guitar to songs. Take GN'R forward, not just replicate whatever Izzy did. This is an outstanding opportunity to mix things up a bit, be creative, create next.generation versions of GN'R songs. It is a unique opportunity, I hope they don't just squander it by insisting that Richard should stay in the background. Then they might as well bring in someone more boring than Richard. I totally agree with this! Really hoping the show has changed from all we've seen during the last decade. I can't understand people attached to Gilby Clarke??? How many of you HAVE REALLY seen Clarke in a big band after Guns? How can you miss something that was never a big deal? Remember when Clarke broke his arm and Izzy replaced him? People were thrilled for having Izzy back. Clarke isn't special. I don't miss Sorum, I don't miss Gilby, those guys don't have outstanding careers that make you drool over the thought of having them back! It is Axl and Slash the ones we really missed, and in second place comes Duff and Izzy. Steven Adler?? Come on, no one missed him during the UYI tour! This current combination sounds and looks good. I don't want nostalgia shows, sick of them, even though I know they will mostly play the hits and old material, I hope there is at least a change in the set list with different covers, solos and NEW material, if that was possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofnazareth Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I've seen Ca 5 minutes ago, killuridols said: I totally agree with this! Really hoping the show has changed from all we've seen during the last decade. I can't understand people attached to Gilby Clarke??? How many of you HAVE REALLY seen Clarke in a big band after Guns? How can you miss something that was never a big deal? Remember when Clarke broke his arm and Izzy replaced him? People were thrilled for having Izzy back. Clarke isn't special. I don't miss Sorum, I don't miss Gilby, those guys don't have outstanding careers that make you drool over the thought of having them back! It is Axl and Slash the ones we really missed, and in second place comes Duff and Izzy. Steven Adler?? Come on, no one missed him during the UYI tour! This current combination sounds and looks good. I don't want nostalgia shows, sick of them, even though I know they will mostly play the hits and old material, I hope there is at least a change in the set list with different covers, solos and NEW material, if that was possible. I've seen Gilby Clarke many times in concert..he is special to me, his music has gotten me through it all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bards Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I've got nothing against Fortus, good player and seems like a decent dude. But those saying that he should be in the band over Gilby because he's a superior player are missing the point, perhaps intentionally. What we're talking about is who is a better fit for a GNR reunion. And before anyone tries to say otherwise, yes this is a GNR reunion. Arguing semantics is pointless. As it stands, it's a GNR reunion plus a couple of session players. What people want is for those session players to be replaced with someone who wouldn't be out of place in a GNR reunion. If Izzy's not going to be there, Gilby is the next logical choice. He was with the band at the peak of their popularity, played with them at the RNRHOF and played with the band at the shows where they had their largest audiences both live and on video release. The world has flatly rejected the CD era. If they hadn't, there wouldn't be a reunion in the first place, so making arguments using that era as a pillar is again pointless. You may not like it, but the people have spoken. The fact is, any discussion focusing on the CD era is limited to this and a couple of other internet forums. Through no fault of his own, Fortus is a symbol of that failed experiment. The farther away any sort of reunion is from the stench of that failure, the better. So if you're going to go the reunion route, go the full monty. Give us band members that we can identify with as GNR in their heyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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