Listening to Nirvana is making me appreciate GN'R more

[Nicklord]

Everyone has their opinion about wbo they prefer but how the fuck is Nirvana one trick ponny? Something In The Way and Smells Like Teen Spirit are almost the same, right? Or Paper Cuts and All Apologies? 

[Silverburst80]

18 minutes ago, Nicklord said:

Everyone has their opinion about wbo they prefer but how the fuck is Nirvana one trick ponny? Something In The Way and Smells Like Teen Spirit are almost the same, right? Or Paper Cuts and All Apologies? 

i'm talking structurally not from a sonic point of view. Nirvana songs are very much built on a verse chorus verse structure, like i said it was done well and people liked it but they weren't a band that's going to 5 or 6 sections in one song like guns could do, very difficult thing to do seamlessly.

[wasted]

To some people GNR and Nirvana are the same thing. Long haired guys playing guitars on drugs. 

But Guns are more blues based?

Nirvana seem a little more punk or three cords and out. But they were also kind of off the wall and arty. Whether long jams like Rubbing Alcohol or experimental like Mexican Seafood. 

But they seemed to catch on to the coat tails of the punk elements GNR laid down. That energy was now potentially commercial. Labels would look at punk bands more because GNR took off. Guns beoke down that barrier and Nirvana took a lot of kids further, sometimes too far into alternative. I definitely know some who passed on Nirvana and opted for Oasis as Nirvana were just a bit too seedy. Nevermind is a fun album but once Incesticide and In Utero came out the fun was over. Weezer kind of took the idea of a cute rock n roll band Nirvana could have been and ran with it. 

[Caught_in_a_Coma]

 

5 hours ago, Silverburst80 said:

Hey guy first post!

This is a subject that i certainly have an opinion on and in my humble opinion Nirvana were and continue to be a massively overrated band. They were a good band don't get me wrong but as someone alluded to before they are a bit of a one trick pony, obviously many people liked the trick but a one trick pony all the same. You certainly couldn't put Guns in that category, i mean they were more than capable of writing a loud snotty punk tune like Nirvana ( It's so Easy, Reckless Life ) but could you see Nirvana being able to come up with something like Locomotive?, i think not. For Cobain to state Guns were devoid of any talent really did take the cake as well, i mean say what you want about Axl's personal traits but to slate a fellow artists abilities is scraping the barrel and looks like the ramblings of a petty little man.

Cobain always rubbed me the wrong way, even at 11 years old i saw right through his bullshit.Tried waaay too hard to be the tortured,indie poet guy trying to revolt against the system when clearly he wasn't. From the "corporate whores" shirt that was ever so popular to the "corporate magazines suck" shirt he wore on the cover of Rolling Stone, yeah we get it Kurt but give it a rest huh?. Also make no mistake the guy loved the limelight, the far superior bands from that scene in AIC and Soundgarden managed to be insanely popular without being the media whores Nirvana were.

One last thing can we put this Nirvana or grunge killed GNR to bed?. From what i recall the last concert GNR played when they supposedly at their most uncool stage was in front of a full stadium at River Plate in Argentina at the peak of grunge, after all the classics of that genre had been released. Playing 200 shows in 2 years killed GNR.

Yeah, I read that Cobain said something like GN'R was releasing garbage music and that's so unfair.  So much of their best material is on the Illusions

Edited March 17, 2016 by Caught_in_a_Coma

[yourcrazy]

As a long time GNR fan I agree with most of your opinions and analysis.  I was around during both of their rise to fame.  As a rock fan I really liked Nirvana when they came out.  I still don't understand the whole grunge movement though.  I don't view it as a new invented music style but rather just an evolution of hard rock.  I don't think it differs that much from most Afd songs.  Nightrain, brownstone, it's so easy etc all have a similar grungier feel to them especially when u compare them to Bon jovi and def leopard songs of the time. To me both bands are similar.  I don't think GNR belongs in the glam hair band category and I don't feel Nirvana is in their own special category either.  I can respect both of their music, but overall I still prefer GNR.  To me their music evolved thru their career more, all songs didn't sound the same and they have held up better over time. 

Edited March 17, 2016 by yourcrazy

[dalsh327]

GNR wasn't really in Kurt's wheelhouse in the late 80s, but even his rock influences were targets. 

I would listen to Cheap Trick's back catalog and some of the bands and albums mentioned in the Journals, and the original versions of the covers he did.  

Nirvana were in the right place, right time, that movement was going to happen with or without them. 

I just wonder with Dave Grohl writing more songs, how that next Nirvana would have gone, and if he would have still been in the band. 

[EvanG]

10 hours ago, killuridols said:

My impression is that Cobain misjudged Axl and didn't give himself a chance to know AXL better. He would have realized they had a lot in common. The difference was in the way they expressed their art.

 

I don't think they had that much in common... yeah, they both had an unhappy childhood and expressed that through their music, but a lot of artists do that. Axl was very much a rockstar, from the way he dressed to how he behaved, Kurt didn't want anything to do with that.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by EvanG

[Len Cnut]

The power of Nirvana is in the detail of what they did within the restriction that they worked with.  Rather than 'oh, here's Nirvana disco song!' or 'here's Nirvanas power ballad', Nirvana were about supreme rhythm, supreme melody, propulsive music that was just unignorably catchy, they are different seeking to do different things to serve a different audience.

Were i to stack em up though, like Nirvana vs GnR?  Nirvana, all day long.  In 100 years from now Unplugged in New York will sound fresh...pretty much all of GnRs work sounds stale already.  When you strip away the distortion and the pounding drums from Nirvana what you have is gorgeous simplistic songs of the kind that last forever.  Plus Kurt Cobain was a lyrical genius.  Whether he was deliberately so in unimportant, his lyrics just evoke a tone and present you images and point towards something that isn't always really specific but at the same time it's really emotionally evocative...and thats the function of music, to evoke an emotional response from the listener. 

Nirvana were a really unique thing, when you look into the specifics of what they were without being broad and homogenising about it, what you have there is something really singular, really powerful and really quite special.  Also, in regards to musical range, Nirvana were only really around for a handful of years and their last album was reputed to be their last album in that grunge mould so who knows where that might've went.

Quote

Nirvana were in the right place, right time, that movement was going to happen with or without them. 

Would it have been the same though?  Would it have gone as far and as high and been rated as like, a key evolutionary period in the history of rock n roll.  I mean there's always these little musical flare ups but without the big band to carry it to prominence they just become kinda sub-chapters.  Look at pub rock.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Len B'stard

[EvanG]

6 hours ago, Silverburst80 said:

Cobain always rubbed me the wrong way, even at 11 years old i saw right through his bullshit.Tried waaay too hard to be the tortured,indie poet guy trying to revolt against the system when clearly he wasn't. From the "corporate whores" shirt that was ever so popular to the "corporate magazines suck" shirt he wore on the cover of Rolling Stone, yeah we get it Kurt but give it a rest huh?. Also make no mistake the guy loved the limelight, the far superior bands from that scene in AIC and Soundgarden managed to be insanely popular without being the media whores Nirvana were.

 

Kurt was so contradictive, even when you read his interviews, he contradicts himself all the time and that was also how he lived his life. He complained about safety in general, yet at the same time he OD'd constantly.

It's like his best friend once said... he wanted to play for 100,000 people but at the same time he felt guilty for wanting that. Other times he complained about Nirvana being too famous and wished they were an indie band still. But him being contradictive doesn't make his music any less sincere, if you ask me.

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, yourcrazy said:

As a long time GNR fan I agree with most of your opinions and analysis.  I was around during both of their rise to fame.  As a rock fan I really liked Nirvana when they came out.  I still don't understand the whole grunge movement though.  I don't view it as a new invented music style but rather just an evolution of hard rock.  I don't think it differs that much from most Afd songs.  Nightrain, brownstone, it's so easy etc all have a similar grungier feel to them especially when u compare them to Bon jovi and def leopard songs of the time. To me both bands are similar.  I don't think GNR belongs in the glam hair band category and I don't feel Nirvana is in their own special category either.  I can respect both of their music, but overall I still prefer GNR.  To me their music evolved thru their career more, all songs didn't sound the same and they have held up better over time. 

The whole grunge term didn't make sense anyway, it was just a made up term by some British journalist. Most of those ''grunge'' bands didn't sound anything alike, the only thing they had in common was that they all came from the Seattle area. Another reason why they stood out at the time was because they didn't look or acted like rockstars, but basically looked like the guys next door who had been practising in their garage. Kids could relate to them, most kids couldn't relate to those metal guys from the 80s in spandex outfits and the big hair.

Edited March 17, 2016 by EvanG

[EvanG]

2 hours ago, wasted said:

Nevermind is a fun album but once Incesticide and In Utero came out the fun was over. Weezer kind of took the idea of a cute rock n roll band Nirvana could have been and ran with it. 

Well, Weezer's first album might have sounded like fun at first hear, but when you actually read the lyrics, you realize they were sad, self-deprecating songs disguised as happy pop songs, as Rivers described it himself. And their second album Pinkerton was a very dark album.

[Apollo]

16 hours ago, -W.A.R- said:

when you embody yourself into a band, you don't want anything to spoil that special feeling you have for them

You guys do know it's OK to love more than one band......right?

 

[Apollo]

15 hours ago, Fitha_whiskey said:

Nirvana fucking blows.

The End.

Lol. No. 

[Apollo]

Several posters are confused about the definition of the word overrated. Some fail to understand the difference between "I don't personally like it" and "overrated."

Bands and songs aren't overrated or underrated. You just have a different opinion on them than the majority of music fans. 

To say that Nirvana is overrated just shows musical ignorance on your part. Same for the people that say GnR is overrated. Bands are what they are. They achieve what they achieve.  Because you don't personally agree with millions of other fans doesnt mean they are overrated or underrated. It just means you have a different personal preference. 

[Len Cnut]

15 minutes ago, Apollo said:

You guys do know it's OK to love more than one band......right?

 

What in the fuck is that boy talking about Apollo?   'When you embody yourself in one band', sorry, what?   You can't embody yourself, you're already yourself you mad cunt

[LetMeHearItNow...]

Greetings all.  I don't post often, but Mr. Cobain gets my blood boiling.  Believe me, I was a ranting and raving young, dumb and full of cum 16 year old when Mr. Cobain died.  You have to give respect to a man who blows his head off shortly after bringing a child into the world.  Yup, www.responsible.com.  I just made that up.  Not sure if it's a real site.

Even my hot girlfriend wore an RIP Kurt shirt after he passed.  I just remember being confused as to why people thought that Nirvana was a better band lyrically and musically than a band who wrote Jungle, Nightrain, Patience, One In A Million, Breakdown, Coma, Pretty Tied Up, Don't Cry, Estranged, November Rain, etc.  I was going out of my mind trying to explain to people all of the different vocal styles Axl had vs. Kurt and the difference in the music.  Just November Rain alone with the different solos helped make my point, but people were stuck on the "Yeah, but he's different and a tortured soul and says what he feels." bandwagon.  What in the fucking fuck were they talking about?  Regarding bands of that era, look at Pearl Jam, they were much better live and on record than Nirvana in my opinion.  Oh and the lead singer didn't decided to just end it all cuz he had a bad day.

I'm just not a fan and I believe he was on the fake side by pretending that all that was popular was uncool and being different was the way to be.  I really think he just tried being different for the sake of being different.  I lost all respect for Mr. Cobain when I heard this interview a while back.  Just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by LetMeHearItNow...
Typo

[-W.A.R-]

1 hour ago, Apollo said:

You guys do know it's OK to love more than one band......right?

nope you gotta be hardcore or nothing

fortunately for me i don't think any band will ever surpass Guns

Edited March 17, 2016 by -W.A.R-

[Len Cnut]

11 minutes ago, LetMeHearItNow... said:

Greetings all.  I don't post often, but Mr. Cobain gets my blood boiling.  Believe me, I was a ranting and raving young, dumb and full of cum 16 year old when Mr. Cobain died.  You have to give respect to a man who blows his head off shortly after bringing a child into the world.  Yup, www.responsible.com.  I just made that up.  Not sure if it's a real site.

Even my hot girlfriend wore an RIP Kurt shirt after he passed.  I just remember being confused as to why people thought that Nirvana was a better band lyrically and musically than a band who wrote Jungle, Nightrain, Patience, One In A Million, Breakdown, Coma, Pretty Tied Up, Don't Cry, Estranged, November Rain, etc.  I was going out of my mind trying to explain to people all of the different vocal styles Axl had vs. Kurt and the difference in the music.  Just November Rain alone with the different solos helped make my point, but people were stuck on the "Yeah, but he's different and a tortured soul and says what he feels." bandwagon.  What in the fucking fuck were they talking about?  Regarding bands of that era, look at Pearl Jam, they were much better live and on record than Nirvana in my opinion.  Oh and the lead singer didn't decided to just end it all cuz he had a bad day.

I'm just not a fan and I believe he was on the fake side by pretending that all that was popular was uncool and being different was the way to be.  I really think he just tried being different for the sake of being different.  I lost all respect for Mr. Cobain when I heard this interview a while back.  Just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

So basically, you have to like what everyone else likes or you're faking it?  And Kurt liked a lot of things that a lot of people liked, he was a massive Beatles fan for crying out loud, thats hardly the choice of Mr Alternative of the 80s, he made pop songs within a movement that was really quite strongly against them, if anything you should be praising the bastard for being one from among many who could very much be considered (though i don't necessarily agree with that idea) militant in their approach to the 'different for the sake of it' ideal.  He liked AC/DC, Black Sabbath, Aerosmith to a point, how is any of this being staunchly alternative?

And why would that video make you lose all respect for Kurt?  What, cuz you feel cheated that the lyrics perhaps don't mean anything?  Who cares if they don't, who cares if it's total nonsense, as long as the musics good?  I mean what do you expect from a song that makes a concerted effort to project a certain message?  When have you EVER listened to a rock song with a message or something thats saying something precise and specific and come away feeling like a better person for it?  Or felt some grandiose or substantial comment had been made?  I don't think I've ever gotten that from a song.  Perhaps the act of purposely producing message-less songs or songs with lyrics that aren't saying anything in particular is a statement in itself?  It's worth bearing in mind that most rock stars are pretty uneducated people, there's nothing you are gonna get from the lyrics of them in terms of a substantial message that isn't something that you can read in a book, and often not a very thought provoking one, it's about music primarily, is it not? 

1 hour ago, Apollo said:

Several posters are confused about the definition of the word overrated. Some fail to understand the difference between "I don't personally like it" and "overrated."

Bands and songs aren't overrated or underrated. You just have a different opinion on them than the majority of music fans. 

To say that Nirvana is overrated just shows musical ignorance on your part. Same for the people that say GnR is overrated. Bands are what they are. They achieve what they achieve.  Because you don't personally agree with millions of other fans doesnt mean they are overrated or underrated. It just means you have a different personal preference. 

It's about the value of popularity in the mind of the person making such claims.

[EvanG]

18 minutes ago, LetMeHearItNow... said:

Greetings all.  I don't post often, but Mr. Cobain gets my blood boiling.  Believe me, I was a ranting and raving young, dumb and full of cum 16 year old when Mr. Cobain died.  You have to give respect to a man who blows his head off shortly after bringing a child into the world.  Yup, www.responsible.com.  I just made that up.  Not sure if it's a real site.

Even my hot girlfriend wore an RIP Kurt shirt after he passed.  I just remember being confused as to why people thought that Nirvana was a better band lyrically and musically than a band who wrote Jungle, Nightrain, Patience, One In A Million, Breakdown, Coma, Pretty Tied Up, Don't Cry, Estranged, November Rain, etc.  I was going out of my mind trying to explain to people all of the different vocal styles Axl had vs. Kurt and the difference in the music.  Just November Rain alone with the different solos helped make my point, but people were stuck on the "Yeah, but he's different and a tortured soul and says what he feels." bandwagon.  What in the fucking fuck were they talking about?  Regarding bands of that era, look at Pearl Jam, they were much better live and on record than Nirvana in my opinion.  Oh and the lead singer didn't decided to just end it all cuz he had a bad day.

I'm just not a fan and I believe he was on the fake side by pretending that all that was popular was uncool and being different was the way to be.  I really think he just tried being different for the sake of being different.  I lost all respect for Mr. Cobain when I heard this interview a while back.  Just my 2 cents.

 

There is so much wrong with this post... First of all, it's all subjective... why were you trying to convince others that GnR is better? You can't argue taste, some people prefer a band like Nirvana, some prefer GnR, there's no right or wrong. Both is fine.

Also, you can't judge someone who commits suicide. You can't possibly know what that person is going through and where their mind is at. If they have a loose wire temporarily or some psychotic episode, it's hard to judge depression anyway because it's a tough subject and everyone experiences it in a different way. To refer to it as ''having a bad day'' makes you look really ignorant. Some people close to Kurt thought he might have suffered some brain damage after the coma he was in a month before he killed himself like the doctor said was possible, or maybe the depression just got the best of him, my point is... it's really ignorant to judge when you don't even know what was going on.

 

[EvanG]

22 minutes ago, Len B'stard said:

 

And why would that video make you lose all respect for Kurt?  What, cuz you feel cheated that the lyrics perhaps don't mean anything? 

Also, Kurt was so full of shit... he made up so many stories about himself and his life, it's like what I said earlier... he was so contradictive. He told people he lived under a bridge, which was bullshit. He told childhood stories that were completely made up. He told journalists he was clean and hated drugs and a day later he would OD on heroin. Don't believe everything he says in interviews, a lot of it is simply not true.

[Len Cnut]

12 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Also, Kurt was so full of shit... he made up so many stories about himself and his life, it's like what I said earlier... he was so contradictive. He told people he lived under a bridge, which was bullshit. He told childhood stories that were completely made up. He told journalists he was clean and hated drugs and a day later he would OD on heroin. Don't believe everything he says in interviews, a lot of it is simply not true.

And Axl Rose tells people he was abused at aged 2 and attacks his family over it, has multiple fuckin rape and sexual abuse accusations which he denies, attempts to defend rampant racism and homophobia...and thats me giving him the benefit of the doubt and not bringing up the wilder and weirder accusations in relation to yoda and crystals and the ghost of John Bonham because i dont wanna give the man an unfair shake in comparison.

Kurt might not have lived under a bridge but he was most certainly homeless at that age for a while, Kurt adjusted specifics about his life or revised memorises, thats a lot better on the scale than the outright bullshit that Axl has to his name, seriously, you wanna get into a whoose more full of shit discussion taking up the side of Axl Rose in the argument, a man whoose reknowned across the industry for it?

[EvanG]

2 minutes ago, Len B'stard said:

And Axl Rose tells people he was abused at aged 2 and attacks his family over it, has multiple fuckin rape and sexual abuse accusations which he denies, attempts to defend rampant racism and homophobia...and thats me giving him the benefit of the doubt and not bringing up the wilder and weirder accusations in relation to yoda and crystals and the ghost of John Bonham because i dont wanna give the man an unfair shake in comparison.

Kurt might not have lived under a bridge but he was most certainly homeless at that age for a while, Kurt adjusted specifics about his life or revised memorises, thats a lot better on the scale than the outright bullshit that Axl has to his name, seriously, you wanna get into a whoose more full of shit discussion taking up the side of Axl Rose in the argument, a man whoose reknowned across the industry for it?

I don't really get your post... it had nothing to do with Axl whatsoever. I reacted on the user who complained about Kurt not putting meaning to his lyrics, and I mentioned that you shouldn't take everything Kurt said in interviews too seriously, because he made up a lot of things.

[-W.A.R-]

1 hour ago, Len B'stard said:

What in the fuck is that boy talking about Apollo?   'When you embody yourself in one band', sorry, what?   You can't embody yourself, you're already yourself you mad cunt

its hard to explain basically when Slash's solo kicks in you feel it in your soul

then Axl comes in "CAUSE I SEE THE STORM IS GETTING CLLOOOOOSER AND THE WAVES THEY GET SO HIGGGGGH" and you ascend into this euphoric state where nothing matters you're completely immersed into the music you picture yourself riding dolphins with Axl in the middle of the ocean

im fucking with you

[shjtjustgotreal]

18 minutes ago, Len B'stard said:

And Axl Rose tells people he was abused at aged 2 and attacks his family over it, has multiple fuckin rape and sexual abuse accusations which he denies, attempts to defend rampant racism and homophobia...and thats me giving him the benefit of the doubt and not bringing up the wilder and weirder accusations in relation to yoda and crystals and the ghost of John Bonham because i dont wanna give the man an unfair shake in comparison.

Kurt might not have lived under a bridge but he was most certainly homeless at that age for a while, Kurt adjusted specifics about his life or revised memorises, thats a lot better on the scale than the outright bullshit that Axl has to his name, seriously, you wanna get into a whoose more full of shit discussion taking up the side of Axl Rose in the argument, a man whoose reknowned across the industry for it?

Duuuuuude, we meet again.

Last time we insulted each other was also about Cobain remember???

[Len Cnut]

1 hour ago, EvanG said:

I don't really get your post... it had nothing to do with Axl whatsoever. I reacted on the user who complained about Kurt not putting meaning to his lyrics, and I mentioned that you shouldn't take everything Kurt said in interviews too seriously, because he made up a lot of things.

My post was basically saying rock stars are full of shit.

48 minutes ago, shjtjustgotreal said:

Duuuuuude, we meet again.

Last time we insulted each other was also about Cobain remember???

Dont call me dude, im not a fucking cowboy