Listening to Nirvana is making me appreciate GN'R more

[Fitha_whiskey]

2 hours ago, LetMeHearItNow... said:

Greetings all.  I don't post often, but Mr. Cobain gets my blood boiling.  Believe me, I was a ranting and raving young, dumb and full of cum 16 year old when Mr. Cobain died.  You have to give respect to a man who blows his head off shortly after bringing a child into the world.  Yup, www.responsible.com.  I just made that up.  Not sure if it's a real site.

Even my hot girlfriend wore an RIP Kurt shirt after he passed.  I just remember being confused as to why people thought that Nirvana was a better band lyrically and musically than a band who wrote Jungle, Nightrain, Patience, One In A Million, Breakdown, Coma, Pretty Tied Up, Don't Cry, Estranged, November Rain, etc.  I was going out of my mind trying to explain to people all of the different vocal styles Axl had vs. Kurt and the difference in the music.  Just November Rain alone with the different solos helped make my point, but people were stuck on the "Yeah, but he's different and a tortured soul and says what he feels." bandwagon.  What in the fucking fuck were they talking about?  Regarding bands of that era, look at Pearl Jam, they were much better live and on record than Nirvana in my opinion.  Oh and the lead singer didn't decided to just end it all cuz he had a bad day.

I'm just not a fan and I believe he was on the fake side by pretending that all that was popular was uncool and being different was the way to be.  I really think he just tried being different for the sake of being different.  I lost all respect for Mr. Cobain when I heard this interview a while back.  Just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

I totally agree with everything here. Cobain was a fake punk. Fuck that guy.

AIC (I like) & Pearl Jam (I don't) were 10 times the band Nirvana was...

[Sprite]

1 hour ago, Len B'stard said:

 attempts to defend rampant racism and homophobia...

1 word in a relatively unknown song and this is enough to characterize someone you don't know as exhibiting "rampant racism and homophobia"? 

Can you clarify what you mean with his "attempts to defend" himself? All I know of is the interview where, he was asked about it, said something along the lines of "Why is it that whenever a white person uses the word, its meant towards the whole black race". A lot of people would agree with that assessment, then and now. And a lot of people would not. Can you not have a logical discussion on the probability that a white kid from a small Indiana town moving to a big city and having a culture shock might run into some shady characters and in his young idealistic adulthood, wrote some not so nice generalizations about some people? Fuck no right he's just a racist prick cause he used a word once. Much easier to think that way thank you!!

I also know of that concert where Axl started out, attempting to defend as you said, One in a million. To quote off memory: "I don't care what color you are as long as you aren't a drug dealing, low life, stealing piece of shit. I used the word, but that don't mean every black man is a N*****. It means if someone is trying to sell you free parking for $15, kick him in the nuts.

Also there was a 3rd line there that's always lost. "Radicals and racists, don't point your finger at me. I'm a small town white boy, just trying to make ends meet. Don't need your religion, Don't watch that much TV, just making my livin' baby, thats enough for me."

That line certainly doesn't sound like something written from someone you are essentially trying to showcase as music's David Duke.

Finally, and I know this is a mute point to some people, and even something worth mocking to others, but I don't think if Axl was the rampant racist you proclaim him to be, would have joined a band and became synonymous with his half black lead guitar player. Or associated with the NWA. Or had a black body guard. Or black people in his videos. Or had a cuban drummer. 

Hey though since a word qualifies you as racist or homophobic, Kurt and Axl have much more in common than ever expected! To quote:

"What else should I say
Everyone is gay "

 The tone is Kurt's voice while he sings this line is plain offensive to me. I can hear the anger and distrust he has towards gay people. And to diminish a gay person's struggle and fight by proclaiming "everyone is gay" is the most disrespectful thing I've ever seen to the gay community. 

 

You see this is what you are doing to Axl, and I've seen you do for years now. Saying "faget" does not make you a homophobe to me. To your credit, it probably doesn't help either. But yeah. It's a word. Words are just things that fly by and are constantly evolving so how silly to take them so seriously. You give it all of it's meaning. 

Your complaints about Axl actually remind me quite a bit of Oprah Winfrey in this segment, where they actually talk about One in a Million. Got to love how a very respected black musician defends Axl here, but a white guy from England has his panties in a bunch 30 years later. Go to 5:30 in this video:

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by Sprite

[liers]

I never liked Nirvana because of Kurtz voice... I'm a big AIC, soundgarden, and pearl jam fan though.

[shjtjustgotreal]

25 minutes ago, Len B'stard said:

My post was basically saying rock stars are full of shit.

Dont call me dude, im not a fucking cowboy

I'll call you whatever the fuck I want u cowboy

[Len Cnut]

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1 word in a relatively unknown song and this is enough to characterize someone you don't know as exhibiting "rampant racism and homophobia"? 

Who said my comment was based on one word?  Or even two word?  or three or four?  Or even specifically a song?

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Can you clarify what you mean with his "attempts to defend" himself? All I know of is the interview where, he was asked about it, said something along the lines of "Why is it that whenever a white person uses the word, its meant towards the whole black race". A lot of people would agree with that assessment, then and now. And a lot of people would not. Can you not have a logical discussion on the probability that a white kid from a small Indiana town moving to a big city and having a culture shock might run into some shady characters and in his young idealistic adulthood, wrote some not so nice generalizations about some people? Fuck no right he's just a racist prick cause he used a word once. Much easier to think that way thank you!!

Well there's that comment, there's the 'well black people call themselves it all the time, there's this group called NWA', there's his going on about shouting stuff at gay guys in Hollywood from a moving car, there's his bringing up the story of the time he was accosted by some gay guy he hitched a ride from in the context of a discussion about this song.  And why are you presuming i have a problem with him using the word?  Or being homophobic or racist?  I just pointed out that he said some homophobic and racist shit, i didn't say i had a problem with it, in fact i don't give a shit one way or another, he could be the worlds biggest homophobe and racist in the world, it wouldn't bother me one bit.  In fact, i don't even dislike the song, i think it's one of his very best.  I just pointed out that there's racism and homphobia there, your defence of it presupposes that I'm personally offended, i never said i was, nor do i necessarily have a problem with white people using the word n!gger, GG Allin does it on an album i have, John Lennon does it, Patti Smith does it.  I did say was that it was an example of how he was full of shit.  And in regards to this song here's why i think that.  He wrote that song from a racist perspective as a small town whiteboy who was prey to certain prejudices as a result of being a small town whiteboy, fine, i got no problem with that and i think it makes for a great song.  But then what happens afterwards is his not having the balls to just leave it at that as an explanation.  He just couldn't stand by that fact alone and began trying to defend it and rationalise it through a bunch of bullshit basically.  A bunch of bullshit that actually ended up making him look like a racist and a homophobe, whether he is or not is his heart of hearts is not my concern simply because a persons heart of hearts is something no one can know unless they are a psychic, all we have to go by are his words and his words attempted to explain and rationalise that shit.

Oh black people use it, why can't I?  And then all those comments about i just don't understand gays, i like women, lesbians are ok though   And then the stuff about aggressive gay guys and that cute little story about hitchiker Axl and the straight razor.  He didn't have the stones to just make the song and stand by it as a piece of music.  I think it's actually one of his best vocals takes I've ever heard.  And then all that stuff about immigrants trying to start a mini Iran which he rationalised by 'oh this one time me and Slash were in a store and this guy from Iran was really mean to us and blah blah blah and a further comment he made about 'i have no problem with immigrants coming over to this country to better themselves but what i do have a problem with is people working in a 7/11 acting like you don't belong here or that they don't understand when they're tryna rip you off for change'...now thats not as a small town whiteboy, this was in Rolling Stone i believe.  All it shows is a really small minded guy who had a bad experience in a 7/11 one day and still carries that shit around with him, it sounds like a really small minded and petty guy.  All that time later, no longer a small time whiteboy (now an enlightened hollywood rockstar :lol:) he's still holding onto that shit.  Were it truly some small time whiteboy shit he wouldn't've been trying to rationalise and defend that shit in the present tense on that day, is that all clear for you?

I'm a firm believer in free speech, if u got something to say, whether racist, homophobic, anti-semetic, whatever, you up and say it but what I'm also a firm believer in is people standing by shit you say, you wanna say some racist shit, fine you say it but then also you gotta stand by the shit and not whinge when people call you a racist for the rest of your life, or some people call you a racist for the rest of your life, you take your lumps like a man, it's called taking responsibility for the shit that comes out of your mouth, it's basic stuff, we all have to do it.  

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I also know of that concert where Axl started out, attempting to defend as you said, One in a million. To quote off memory: "I don't care what color you are as long as you aren't a drug dealing, low life, stealing piece of shit. I used the word, but that don't mean every black man is a N*****. It means if someone is trying to sell you free parking for $15, kick him in the nuts.

Oh well thank you Axl, thanks for clearing that up, 'not every black man is a N!gger', I suppose it's Axl who gets to decide which one is and which one isn't?

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Also there was a 3rd line there that's always lost. "Radicals and racists, don't point your finger at me. I'm a small town white boy, just trying to make ends meet. Don't need your religion, Don't watch that much TV, just making my livin' baby, thats enough for me."

It's not lost, it's right there at the end of the track and we're talking about it now and in context it's potentially a load of bullshit.  First of all, anyone can say some spurious shit and then tag a caveat on the end that says 'oh but thats not what i subscribe to'...well then why say that shit?  And also, if (and im saying if here cuz i don't know) that song was written ENTIRELY at a time where he was a small time whiteboy he didn't know much better it seems kinda odd that he's enlightened enough to put a disclaimer on the end but not enlightened enough to understand that that shit ain't right.  Unless the last verse was written way after, which is possible.

 

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Hey though since a word qualifies you as racist or homophobic, Kurt and Axl have much more in common than ever expected! To quote:

"What else should I say
Everyone is gay "

 The tone is Kurt's voice while he sings this line is plain offensive to me. I can hear the anger and distrust he has towards gay people. And to diminish a gay person's struggle and fight by proclaiming "everyone is gay" is the most disrespectful thing I've ever seen to the gay community. 

 

OK, you're offended...what would you like me to do about it?   But for the sake of argument, you've wilfully chosen an interpretation there when in the context of it's time that comment, in terms of it's intent, could just as easily been seen as something put out there to shock a homophobic establishment.  And its pretty much universally recognised as such.  In fact, in the 23 years since that song was released and I've been alive and a Nirvana fan you're the first person to interpret it that way that I've heard of and Kurt is pretty much venerated by the gay community regarding his pro-pink stances, and there are many instances of it.  So basically, what we have here is, thus far, one person wildly misinterpreting a lyric.  It happens i suppose.  A more cynical man than myself might even go so far as to insinuate that you were wildly reaching for something to hit back at Kurt with along the lines of Axls prejudices.  Luckily I'm not a cynical man

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You see this is what you are doing to Axl, and I've seen you do for years now. Saying "faget" does not make you a homophobe to me. To your credit, it probably doesn't help either. But yeah. It's a word. Words are just things that fly by and are constantly evolving so how silly to take them so seriously. You give it all of it's meaning. 

Why are you telling me this?  And if you've seen me do it for years now your brain must've been asleep because my position on this song has been consistent and it's all written down on this forum, you should know, as you've been watching me do it for years.

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Your complaints about Axl actually remind me quite a bit of Oprah Winfrey in this segment, where they actually talk about One in a Million. Got to love how a very respected black musician defends Axl here, but a white guy from England has his panties in a bunch 30 years later. Go to 5:30 in this video:

Why would i care whether respected black musicians hold a different opinion than me, why should that have any bearing on the way i personally understand and interpret things?  See there's this thing called thinking for yourself, it'll serve you well in this life if you ever wanna have a go at it.  Thanks for your time.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Len B'stard

[Sprite]

49 minutes ago, Len B'stard said:

 

Well there's that comment, there's the 'well black people call themselves it all the time, there's this group called NWA',

Stating 2 facts does not qualify you as a racist. There are a lot of black people who say it, and a lot of people wonder why it's ok for some but not for others. "There is a group called NWA" is not a confirmation of anything other than him acknowledging a band, and a potentially hypocritical societal standard. Are you sure you didn't take that out of context?

there's his going on about shouting stuff at gay guys in Hollywood from a moving car,

I want to see a source for this claim before I comment. Never heard it before which would surprise me.

there's his bringing up the story of the time he was accosted by some gay guy he hitched a ride from in the context of a discussion about this song.  

You mean the time the guy tried raping him in a hotel room? Interesting how you'll believe the legally unsubstantiated first hand claims of Axl's exes claims of rapes/abuse, but you'll write off Axl's, or use it to critique a word he used  in a song once.

And why are you presuming i have a problem with him using the word?  Or being homophobic or racist?

I presumed you had a problem with the word. Looks like I was wrong based off your text.

 I just pointed out that he said some homophobic and racist shit, i didn't say i had a problem with it, in fact i don't give a shit one way or another, he could be the worlds biggest homophobe and racist in the world, it wouldn't bother me one bit.  In fact, i don't even dislike the song, i think it's one of his very best.  I just pointed out that there's racism and homphobia there,

Definitely I can see where you are coming form. Though I still disagree in principle that using those words means there is racism or homophobia there. Especially in a very limited context of a song verse. It's all about intent. What I hear in that line is frustration to a situation, not anger at an entire group.

your defence of it presupposes that I'm personally offended, i never said i was, nor do i necessarily have a problem with white people using the word n!gger, GG Allin does it on an album i have, John Lennon does it, Patti Smith does it. 

I am not defending the lyrics Axl used. I just don't run to the mountain and yell racist when I hear it. Your point about John Lennon is great. Although he definitely used it in a different context in that woman song. Isn't that where they must have gotten the idea for the Lies album cover from that Lennon NYC album?

I did say was that it was an example of how he was full of shit.  And in regards to this song here's why i think that.  He wrote that song from a racist perspective as a small town whiteboy who was prey to certain prejudices as a result of being a small town whiteboy, fine, i got no problem with that and i think it makes for a great song.  But then what happens afterwards is his not having the balls to just leave it at that as an explanation.  He just couldn't stand by that fact alone and began trying to defend it and rationalise it through a bunch of bullshit basically.  A bunch of bullshit that actually ended up making him look like a racist and a homophobe, whether he is or not is his heart of hearts is not my concern simply because a persons heart of hearts is something no one can know unless they are a psychic, all we have to go by are his words and his words attempted to explain and rationalise that shit.

I think it's troubled waters anytime a white celebrity finds themselves trying to "justify" comments on race that aren't explicitly complimentary. It's why you rarely see any comments made, and if there are it's always the "ah ha! Gotcha" witch hunt by the public and media. I agree if he had just let the song be and maybe said "It's not meant towards the entire black or gay community. It was about specific experiences. Sorry if I offended you." That seems like a logical thing and a respectable way to end it. And I think he tried doing that at first. And to your credit, I do recall a little of what seemed like backtracking with trying to have it removed from newer prints in the late 90s or something to that effect. But until you are in that situation of "famous white guy who rocked the race hive", it's really hard to say how you'd act.

Oh black people use it, why can't I?  

Not sure if you are saying Axl said this or if it was a point to my point? But I was just relaying the message that there are people that fill this way for sure. Not saying I do or defend this as an excuse for white people to use the word.

And then all those comments about i just don't understand gays, i like women, lesbians are ok though  

Yeah I remember that line in the RS article. It sounded typical of a young male in that time, and even still to this day in a lot of places. Hypocritical? You betcha. 

But let's run with it. Ok. Yeah that was a homophobic statement. Now what? You got your label. Our brains are wired to understand symbolism and labels. So there it is. "Axl Rose is Homophobic" But here reality still is too. The song didn't go anywhere. Axl is still the same old Axl. The art is still there. So what triumph comes from saying someone is homophobic for a comment? It's just a way to keep cosmic "gossip" alive and well. It feeds the ego/senses.

 

And then the stuff about aggressive gay guys and that cute little story about hitchiker Axl and the straight razor.

"Cute little story" Is Stephanie or Erin's claims just as cute? Or are you being sexist towards men, because male sexual abuse isn't as widespread, thus more acceptable to be critical of, as you've done.

  And then all that stuff about immigrants trying to start a mini Iran which he rationalised by 'oh this one time me and Slash were in a store and this guy from Iran was really mean to us and blah blah blah and a further comment he made about 'i have no problem with immigrants coming over to this country to better themselves but what i do have a problem with is people working in a 7/11 acting like you don't belong here or that they don't understand when they're tryna rip you off for change'...now thats not as a small town whiteboy, this was in Rolling Stone i believe.

It's not what's in a hot dog but how they taste. I'm sorry the story of a 7/11 run in that may have inspired a small line in a song that offended so many. Maybe the clerk was an asshole? Who knows. I wonder if the cop who inspired "fuck the police" is still on the force/being a shady cop too.

 All it shows is a really small minded guy who had a bad experience in a 7/11 one day and still carries that shit around with him,

The only one carrying it still is us, the fans. I don't think the general public remembers/ has a clue/cares.

 

Oh well thank you Axl, thanks for clearing that up, 'not every black man is a N!gger', I suppose it's Axl who gets to decide which one is and which one isn't?

No you claimed Axl has a rampant history of racism so I just thought of every quote I could remember on race to discuss your claim. I certainly am not naive enough to place my world view in the hands of someone I don't know.

It's not lost, it's right there at the end of the track and we're talking about it now and in context it's potentially a load of bullshit.  First of all, anyone can say some spurious shit and then tag a caveat on the end that says 'oh but thats not what i subscribe to'...well then why say that shit?  And also, if (and im saying if here cuz i don't know) that song was written ENTIRELY at a time where he was a small time whiteboy he didn't know much better it seems kinda odd that he's enlightened enough to put a disclaimer on the end but not enlightened enough to understand that that shit ain't right.  Unless the last verse was written way after, which is possible.

It's lost in terms of people discussing all the verses or the meaning of a whole song/piece of art. We don't sit here debating the 2nd verse in you could be mine when deciphering what it's about, like we do with OIAM. Listening to the 2nd verse only might make you think YCBM is about a holiday. And maybe it is in some way. But there is a whole story there. Just like in OIAM.

It's like when people say "the bible says it's ok to own slaves!" without realizing it also says things like "Love thy neighbor" or "The kingdom of god exists within all men". So it's possible to hold up 2 opposites as equal truths. I think a person has the ability to use the N word or say "faget" without being deemed racist or homophobic. It's all about context to me.

 

OK, you're offended...what would you like me to do about it?  

My sarcasm was clearly lost with that analogy haha For the record I love Nirvana.

But for the sake of argument, you've wilfully chosen an interpretation there when in the context of it's time that comment, in terms of it's intent, could just as easily been seen as something put out there to shock a homophobic establishment.

I agree with you. And thats the beauty of interpretation right? You seem capable of adjusting for context for Cobain, but not Rose? I guess we just disagree on what qualifies someone as racist. 

 

Not sure how to do the multi quote response thing so I just bolded my follow up.

 

 

 

[Len Cnut]

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Stating 2 facts does not qualify you as a racist. There are a lot of black people who say it, and a lot of people wonder why it's ok for some but not for others. "There is a group called NWA" is not a confirmation of anything other than him acknowledging a band, and a potentially hypocritical societal standard. Are you sure you didn't take that out of context?

No but it does point to a ridiculous lack of awareness about the world around him, do you really need explaining the difference between NWA saying it in the context that they do and Axl Rose saying it in a conversation when attempting to explain a song that expresses racist views that he held once upon a time due to being a small town whiteboy?

 

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I want to see a source for this claim before I comment. Never heard it before which would surprise me.

 

 

 

 

Jesus Christ, i don't even like GnR and i remember it, what kinda fans are you people?!?

 

How about gay-bashing? Have you ever beaten up somebody simply because of their sexual preference?
]No! I never have. The most I do is, like, on the way to the Troubador in "Boystown," on Santa Monica Boulevard, I'll yell out the car window, "Why don't you guys like pussy?" 'Cause I'm confused. I don't understand it. Antihomosexual? I'm not against them doing what they want to do as long as it's not hurting anybody else and they're not forcing it upon me. I don't need them in my face or, pardon the pun, up my ass about it.

Rolling Stone interview, i dunno when, look it up. 

 

 

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You mean the time the guy tried raping him in a hotel room? Interesting how you'll believe the legally unsubstantiated first hand claims of Axl's exes claims of rapes/abuse, but you'll write off Axl's, or use it to critique a word he used  in a song once.

 

 

 

 

I never said i believed it, i said he had accusations.  Honestly, half of my last post and half of this post is gonna be me clearly up things that you didn't read properly, it's kinda tiresome, can you not just stick to what i said and not what your mind imagined i meant?

 

 

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Definitely I can see where you are coming form. Though I still disagree in principle that using those words means there is racism or homophobia there. Especially in a very limited context of a song verse. It's all about intent. What I hear in that line is frustration to a situation, not anger at an entire group.

 

 

 

 

Once again i did not say using any word suggested he was a racist, I'm talking about a sentiment and indicators that are based on the nature of his defence of the song...and even then i was very careful and specific to say that I am talking about what his words suggest, not whether he is or isn't, my other post was categorically stated that i don't care whether or not he's a racist because i don't believe you can ever really know something like that, I'm talking in defence of my initial statement, based upon which this whole discussion began, that he was he full of shit...and a lot more so and about things with a lot more gravity than the music theory vagueness that people were citing regarding Kurt Cobain.  The overall sentiment expressed in his defence of the song does more to make him look like a racist, a xenaphobe and a homphobe than anything about the song does, which would've been pretty much settled based upon just saying i wrote that as an impression of a small town whiteboy just hitting the big city with a bunch of attendant prejudiced views.  The defences afterwards, the stuff about shouting at gays in the street, the really stupid stuff about people that work in 7/11s does more of that work and it has nothing to do with any single word used and i never even approached stating that it did so i don't know why you're clinging to that, it's the sentiment implied in the nature of his defences and explanations of the song.

 

 

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Not sure if you are saying Axl said this or if it was a point to my point? But I was just relaying the message that there are people that fill this way for sure. Not saying I do or defend this as an excuse for white people to use the word.

 

 

 

 

No I'm saying this is more or less what Axl is saying when pointing out, in defence of his song, that black people use it all the time.

 

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Yeah I remember that line in the RS article. It sounded typical of a young male in that time, and even still to this day in a lot of places. Hypocritical? You betcha. 

But let's run with it. Ok. Yeah that was a homophobic statement. Now what? You got your label. Our brains are wired to understand symbolism and labels. So there it is. "Axl Rose is Homophobic" But here reality still is too. The song didn't go anywhere. Axl is still the same old Axl. The art is still there. So what triumph comes from saying someone is homophobic for a comment? It's just a way to keep cosmic "gossip" alive and well. It feeds the ego/senses.

 

Whatcha mean 'now what', now the point i was making is agreed upon, which it wasn't before, what do you expect, a senate hearing?  I made a plain comment which you went to lengths to dispute, this is why we are still discussing the matter, ask yourself 'now what' cuz you're the one that felt the accusation held enough gravitas so as to warrant a lengthy defence.

 

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"Cute little story" Is Stephanie or Erin's claims just as cute? Or are you being sexist towards men, because male sexual abuse isn't as widespread, thus more acceptable to be critical of, as you've done.

 

 

 

 

Maybe I'm a sexist?  Maybe I'm a card carrying Nazi?  Maybe I'm Hitler himself...but I'm not the topic of discussion here, am I?  And quite frankly, if you want me to be harsh about it, it becomes a little difficult to take a man seriously after he speaks so much bullshit.  I don't take Steph or Erins accusations as factual, i call them what they are, accusations, he weren't found guilty in a court of law (and even if he was he might be innocent)...and when bearing in mind we're talking about a man who thinks a psuedo science like regression therapy is grounds enough to start making rape allegations regarding people that he apparently he recalled from the age of two, considering we're talking about a man thats made all the aforementioned spurious comments regarding race and people of a difference race or sexual orientation or immigrants, ALL of that stuff, i think i can be forgiven for using the word 'cute' in reference to an alleged rape that never actually happened one way or the other.  And it becomes all the more grounds for being referred to as 'a cute little story' when it is used as a justification for rampant prejudiced against an entire social group (i.e. gay people).

 

 

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It's not what's in a hot dog but how they taste. I'm sorry the story of a 7/11 run in that may have inspired a small line in a song that offended so many. Maybe the clerk was an asshole? Who knows. I wonder if the cop who inspired "fuck the police" is still on the force/being a shady cop too.

 

 

 

 

Once again, for the umpteenth time, what he said in the song is not the issue it's his defence and his further blabbering on about an entire social group (immigrants) and pontificating about which of them are acceptable based on the fact that they look at a couple of junkies in their store like they 'don't belong' there.  Newsflash, there aint a place of business on this earth that would look on a smacked out or drunk or stoned Axl and Slash like they belonged there, perhaps the problem ain't the fuckin' race of people but them and how they were.  And also, the classic fuckin' racists line, 'they act like they don't understand English so they can rip you off for change' uh...and how would you know that exactly?  

 

 

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The only one carrying it still is us, the fans. I don't think the general public remembers/ has a clue/cares.

 

 

 

 

Clearly i meant Axl at the time of the interview (it is SO tiresome explaining the obvious to you over and over), if you read that post, like actually read it, it was illustrating how Axls defence of 'thats how i thought THEN' was being kinda contradicted by what he was saying at the time of the interview, i.e. he was still carrying it around with him.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by Len B'stard

[Silverburst80]

8 hours ago, tremolo said:

8 hours ago, tremolo said:

That's a pop structure.

If you wan't to listen to progressive rock, check out Genesis, Pink Floyd, King Crimson, etc.

Locomotive is a pretty standard rock song. I love it, but I don't think there's anything so special about it.

Don't forget that they were KIDS. Not adults, KIDS, all fucked up, with fucked up childhoods, with fucked up lives. When you focus on all that stupid BS of the "he said this, oh and he said that" you have to remember that they were KIDS, not adults.

Saying words like "superior", or "better" when you talk about art is pointless. There is no such thing, just preference, and you can't build an objective statement from that.

Id have to disagree with you there on Locomotive, a sprawling 8 minute song with that weird off time part that ends the chorus and the dreamy outro i wouldn't call it standard. To be honest prog rock isn't really my thing though i'm a big fan of Mastodon who are more a prog metal band. Guns aren't a prog rock band but they did some very cool interludes and tempo changes during songs but did it in a way that kept your attention, Jungle is a great example of this that song alone has so many different parts to it but you might call it a "standard" rock song.

[cooker]

Can't the two fan bases just get along? Both great bands. 

 

Kiss and make up like Axl

 

[wasted]

I could see Izzy getting in the same trouble as Kurt if Izzy started out in a three piece band and the debut was a global hit. He'd be young and being sarcastic and get messed up on drugs inside the media storm. And after two records he might want to quit but he might not make it out alive. Then he'd be an icon. 

[Modano09]

 

Nirvana doesn't age well. I listened to their Greatest Hits not too long ago and they have like 4 songs I thought were the same song. 

[hudsonsaul]

Really?

I'm actually the opposite. WHen I hear Nirvana songs I think they stand the test of time and sound brilliant. 

WHen I hear AFD, I find there are specific tracks that sound so dated, and others that are cheesy. I still think its one of the, if not the, best rock debut. 

But - as you're talking about Greatest Hits, i find the GNR Greatest HIts a horrid affair and somewhat dated (not all of course). Nirvana for me personal stands the test of time as is always a welcome break from whatever is currently either mainstream or mainstream via my own listening habbits (eg. my own spamming of shit i like). GNR does have that vibe with the later comment a bit as well for me but more so the meaty songs casual fans aren't quute into.

I'm blabbering.

[Apollo]

@Len B'stard

@Sprite

Thank you guys for the interesting debate. It was entertaining to read both your opinions on this topic. 

Side points. It is interesting that diehard Axl fans do just accept his claims of being sexually abused as a child  and almost raped by the guy who picked him up hitchhiking but they don't give any creadance to Erin and Stephanie's claims. 

And the accusations that came from regression therapy AND Axs claims that him and Steph were together in past lives and part of his current anger could be traced back towards her being mean to him 500 years ago. Or the Yoda stuff where she would sniff pictures and rooms before Axl would enter them. If Cobain had said that stuff, people on here would be crucifying him for it. 

[Caught_in_a_Coma]

2 hours ago, Modano09 said:

 

Nirvana doesn't age well. I listened to their Greatest Hits not too long ago and they have like 4 songs I thought were the same song. 

This is exactly how I feel and I was trying to explain it in the OP.  I am LOVING going through Nirvana's music right now, but on the greatest hits at least, some of these songs sound extremely similar.

[wasted]

15 hours ago, EvanG said:

Well, Weezer's first album might have sounded like fun at first hear, but when you actually read the lyrics, you realize they were sad, self-deprecating songs disguised as happy pop songs, as Rivers described it himself. And their second album Pinkerton was a very dark album.

Maladroit was like Nevermind to me.

But Weezer songs were much more Beatlesy rock n roll than Sabbath?

 Nirvana did go for more 70s rock whereas I felt like Weezer were more buzzy like 50s, early 60s. But I think Maladroit was heavier. But they did hold to form more than Nirvana who had some ugliness. But they had a poppier side with Been a Son and About a Girl and those covers like Turnaround. 

[Silverburst80]

3 hours ago, hudsonsaul said:

Really?

I'm actually the opposite. WHen I hear Nirvana songs I think they stand the test of time and sound brilliant. 

WHen I hear AFD, I find there are specific tracks that sound so dated, and others that are cheesy. I still think its one of the, if not the, best rock debut. 

But - as you're talking about Greatest Hits, i find the GNR Greatest HIts a horrid affair and somewhat dated (not all of course). Nirvana for me personal stands the test of time as is always a welcome break from whatever is currently either mainstream or mainstream via my own listening habbits (eg. my own spamming of shit i like). GNR does have that vibe with the later comment a bit as well for me but more so the meaty songs casual fans aren't quute into.

I'm blabbering.

''Greatest Hits" are never really a good indication of a bands best work in my opinion, usually just their best known songs.

[kjejuju]

you should listen to bleach and incesticide, and all the songs not on any albums like marijuana you know right , sappy do re mi seasons in the sun . Most of the songs you named were from in utero and never mind .

[squaleca]

On 3/16/2016 at 6:40 PM, -W.A.R- said:

Paradise City is not overrated that song kicks ass

SCOM would be Guns most overrated i don't think it cracks top 5 but played/praised like its their best

gnr wouldnt exist without SCOM just like they wouldnt without appetite

[squaleca]

4 hours ago, Silverburst80 said:

''Greatest Hits" are never really a good indication of a bands best work in my opinion, usually just their best known songs.

couldnt agree more paradise smells like , god i think 2 of nirvanas worst songs are heart shaped well and come as you are is probably 2nd least fav song on nevermind 

but yea my gnr greatest hits would have no released songs besides SCOM and patience and nirvana i dont think would have any maybe sliver or in bloom but i think theres to many nirvana songs better..  

GNR Greatests hits Locomotive, all of appetite minus anything goes, civil war , 14 years, break down , dont dam me, you aint the first, down on the farm , black leather , patience ;used to lover her your crazy 

Nirvana hair spair queen, beeswax downer , aero zep, sliver, molly lips, son of a gun,  all of nevermind minus stay away , smells like only because its smells like, do re mi, about a girl , floyd the barber, love buzz, tourquettes, moist vagina, even in his youth, aint it a shame, and a buch of stuff on outsesticide and with the lights out

 

 

[squaleca]

why nirvana is nirvana 

 

why nirvana isnt nirvana is smells like teen spirit and come as you are 

[EvanG]

5 hours ago, wasted said:

Maladroit was like Nevermind to me.

But Weezer songs were much more Beatlesy rock n roll than Sabbath?

 Nirvana did go for more 70s rock whereas I felt like Weezer were more buzzy like 50s, early 60s. But I think Maladroit was heavier. But they did hold to form more than Nirvana who had some ugliness. But they had a poppier side with Been a Son and About a Girl and those covers like Turnaround. 

I think there are a lot of similarities between both bands, but of course differences too. Weezer probably was a little bit more poppier on the surface. But what I was trying to say is that on the first two Weezer records (which were by far their best in my opinion) there was a lot of dark stuff, like a lot of Nirvana's music, but Rivers had this way of making it sound like a fun quirky song, while most of them were kinda dark when you really listened to the lyrics and read between the lines. 

[squaleca]

oh god here come the how about dont cry and november rain GNR shoulda stuck to patience when writing balads as it is argubably one of the best balads of all time in stead of selling out with november rain

[EvanG]

9 hours ago, Modano09 said:

 

Nirvana doesn't age well. I listened to their Greatest Hits not too long ago and they have like 4 songs I thought were the same song. 

It really goes into waves for me... I listened to Nevermind so much as a kid, and learning to play those songs on guitar, I overplayed it way too much for those reasons. There were a lot of years that those songs didn't do much for me anymore. But lately I've been rediscovering it again and it's like I'm listening to some of those songs in a different way.

In Utero aged better because the production is less polished and smooth. I never listen to that greatest hits, some of their best songs aren't even on there. Aneurysm, Drain You, School, Serve the Servants, Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge On Seattle, On A Plain. 

I guess it's different for everyone.         

 

Edited March 18, 2016 by EvanG

[Caught_in_a_Coma]

2 hours ago, kjejuju said:

you should listen to bleach and incesticide, and all the songs not on any albums like marijuana you know right , sappy do re mi seasons in the sun . Most of the songs you named were from in utero and never mind .

I'm going to.  I'm going to listen to all of their music.  I've already listened to a few songs off Inseticide (Hairspray Queen, and one other, loved both of them)

[dalsh327]

I liked "Live Tonight Sold Out" because it kind of took a page or two from "The Kids Are Alright", and Kurt was involved in the development of it. 

Dave and Krist wanted the "With The Lights Out" box set, Courtney wanted the greatest hits with "You Know You're Right" tacked on, but then they put out Deluxe Editions on top of those releases (which goes along with why we'll see AFD and UYI Deluxe reissues, they have it, the fans want it). Once the "Montage of Death" soundtrack was out, you pretty much got everything they could possibly want to release, aside from a handful of soundboard concerts. There's a bunch of bootleg shows and videos out there, stuff like Kurt's music for the Burroughs audiobook.