Izzy and steven

[Top-Hatted One]

Either Izzy drops his demands $$$$

and play as he wish

or

Bite the bullet. Sign a contract where you get the bulk of your money after completely the tour

[Top-Hatted One]

On 4/22/2016 at 5:51 PM, RONIN said:

The big 3 (probably just slash and axl) probably don't want to split the gigantic payday in equal shares. Let's not forget --- Izzy left the partnership and as such could only come back as a salaried employee unless he's brought back into the partnership. Given how much money they are making on this tour, I doubt they want to split it 4 ways. Dollars to donuts it's all over money why Izzy is being cut out of this.

Remember, Izzy chose to quit the band rather than sign Axl's contract to get demoted and become an employee. No fuckin' way he comes back to the band as a hired hand. 

Izzy quit for a myriad of reasons. Axl's contract wasn't one of them. That came way later in the tour. And was Axl being a dick or was he trying to act in the best interest of GNR's legacy since Slash and duff seemed resigned to dying by the age of 30 with their addictions? Remember if those guys didn't make it Axl would be battling their "wives" at the time, Renee Suran and Linda Johnson, in court for the rights to his band. You dig?

One day the truth will come out. Axl will admit his faults and Slash/Duff will do the same

Edited April 24, 2016 by Top-Hatted One

[Top-Hatted One]

Now it seems Axl managed to tarnish GNR's legacy anyway by making us wait 17yrs for a record when he it could've been released in 2001-2006 while the iron was hot. 

but we are not privy to the things that were going on behind the scenes. Like Slash and duff preventing him from doing anything. Thats why we need to get the story from all 3. In the same room. Coming clean and admitting fault will go a long way in finally ending the drama and speculation that has surrounded GN'R since day one

[stella]

2 hours ago, nico_france said:

sure if he comes for 1 song on the Tour... but if he plays 4-5 songs each night... what is normal? If you compare the amount of gold the big 3 make with a large part of the setlist due to Izzy's songwriting... ok Izzy has royalties, but if the others have their special share for the tour why wouldn't he allowed to have his share?

I'm the first to regret the business part of the things if it kills magic, etc. but don't tell me that this "reunion" is not partially motivated by money... which is Ok, they are great musician and I love them. And it can go with the fact they want to do music together again, and create new music (I hope)

I'm sure it *is* motivated at least partially by money, and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with an artist making money, and i actually do think that if someone fills in for an entire set (or even half of it), they should be paid (and I'm sure in those situations it wouldn't be an issue...I am guessing that when Duff filled in for Tommy on those dates, compensation was offered to him).

However, in terms of Izzy getting his share...sure, he should be paid for being there, if he's actually going to participate in the show for more than a few songs. However, no, I don't think he should get the same share as the Big Three. At all. And that's because Axl, Slash and Duff have been managing this brand for the past 25 years...even when they were not talking or working together, they had to do a fair amount of work behind the scenes with licensing and such,  and they went in together on several lawsuits. Izzy has not. They and their management and attorneys arranged everything for this tour. Izzy did not. They're the ones who have paid for social media management, the Guns N' Roses website, etc. Izzy didn't go in on that. In other words, they turned in a hell of a lot more work for this reunion and have spent a lot more money on the band than he has since 1991, and they absolutely deserve to be paid more for that work.

[sanity_lost]

53 minutes ago, Top-Hatted One said:

Izzy quit for a mirade of reasons. Axl's contract wasn't one of them. That came way later in the tour.

Please forgive me my memory is not the best, but I am pretty sure that part of the reason Izzy quit was because he had a contract shoved at him toward the beginning of the UYI tour. I remember an Izzy interview talking about it. My faulty memory tells me that he was a bit offended by being told he wasn't carrying his weight in a band that he helped start. I am not sure if he actually said that or that was just the impression I got. But I do remember him talking about the contract. I don't know if the contract was just the restructuring of the ownership contract due to Steven being kicked out or if it was something specific to Izzy. He didn't clarify. (if anyone remembers differently let me know and I will see if I can find the interview... it was audio if I remember correctly)

But yes, I agree, it was a myriad of reason that he quit. It wasn't just one thing. I can completely empathize with his side. Being a recovering drug addict and hanging around a bunch of druggies and temptation would be a tortuously horrible idea. Having to deal with the craziness and scope of the UYI tour would be nerve-wracking. Having your close friend who you went through so much with seemingly turning crazier and crazier would be difficult. And to top it all off you are being told you aren't doing enough for the band? I can see why he fled the coop. 

Now we are many, many years later things are different. However, I think Axl, Duff, Slash have a better sense on what will and will not work in regards to Guns. They have been in contact with Izzy (and Steven) over the years and they know the details of the negotiating and circumstances that are happening now.

(unless they are leaving all the details to the managers then that would suck)

Edited April 23, 2016 by sanity_lost
words, how do they work?

[Tom-Ass]

1 hour ago, sanity_lost said:

Please forgive me my memory is not the best, but I am pretty sure that part of the reason Izzy quit was because he had a contract shoved at him toward the beginning of the UYI tour.

This is correct.. Izzy wasn't running around on stage enough for Axl. 

[ZoSoRose]

1 hour ago, Tom-Ass said:

This is correct.. Izzy wasn't running around on stage enough for Axl. 

Is There a source for that? Terrible if true

[GNRfan2008]

1 hour ago, Tom-Ass said:

This is correct.. Izzy wasn't running around on stage enough for Axl. 

I don't think that was the only reason he quit or he wouldn't have come back in 1993. I think the biggest factors were Axl's antics (showing up late and especially starting riots) along with the fact Izzy was trying to stay clean in a band full of substance abuse.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

8 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

Is There a source for that? Terrible if true

Axl himself said it  

[ZoSoRose]

That's fucked. Getting laid less because you don't move around? Come on

[janrichmond]

37 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

That's fucked. Getting laid less because you don't move around? Come on

Laid? ?

[sanity_lost]

2 hours ago, ZoSoRose said:

Is There a source for that? Terrible if true

Here is the source (I assume this is what Tom-Ass was talking about). Seemed that Axl was pretty frustrated with Izzy in general in this interview. But with everything else he said I doubt it was only because Izzy wasn't running around.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/axl-rose-the-rolling-stone-interview-19920402?page=4

[Top-Hatted One]

4 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

This is correct.. Izzy wasn't running around on stage enough for Axl. 

yea you guys are correct but that contract is not the reason Izzy hasn't tour much if at all since. Not even for his solo stuff. Slash and duff by returning are admitting some fault

[stella]

3 hours ago, GNRfan2008 said:

I don't think that was the only reason he quit or he wouldn't have come back in 1993. I think the biggest factors were Axl's antics (showing up late and especially starting riots) along with the fact Izzy was trying to stay clean in a band full of substance abuse.

This is what Axl actually said about it, from Rolling Stone. It wasn't just not moving around onstage; he felt that Izzy wasn't giving 100%. And when one thinks about it...Izzy never seemed to do press, he no-showed "Don't Cry," etc.
 

Quote

Did he say why?
He just wasn't into it. Getting Izzy to work on his own songs on this record was like pulling teeth. When Izzy had 'em on a four-track, they were done. I mean, I like tapes like that, but we'd just get destroyed if we came out with a garage tape. People want a high-quality album. And it was really hard to get Izzy to do that, even on his own material. Izzy's songs were on the record because I wanted them on the record, not because Izzy gave a shit either way. If people think I don't respect Izzy or acknowledge his talent, they're sadly mistaken. He was my friend. I haven't always been right. Sometimes I've been massively wrong, and Izzy's been the one to help steer me back to the things that were right. But I know that I wanted to get as big as we possibly could from Day One, and that wasn't Izzy's intention at all. I think he's ready to do like an X-Pensive Winos [Keith Richards's band] thing. So maybe the world'll get another really cool band. I know that I'll be trying to get an advance tape, just like everybody else.

How did it go down?
We were filming "Don't Cry," and he had to be there. Instead, he sent a really short, cold letter and didn't show up. We got this letter saying, "This changes, this changes, and maybe I'll tour in January." And they were ridiculous demands that weren't going to be met. I talked to Izzy for four and a half hours on the phone. At some points, I was crying, and I was begging. I was doing everything I could to keep him in the band. There were stipulations, though. If he was going to do like the old Izzy did, he wasn't going to make as much money. It was like "You're not giving an equal share." Slash and I were having to do too much work to keep the attention and the energy up in the crowd. You're onstage going, "This is really hard, and I'm into it and I'm doing it, but that guy just gets to stand there."

But there's a certain charisma to that. It was just one more thing to get off on about Guns n' Roses. There were five distinct personalities on the stage.
That's okay. But when the guy's getting up at six thirty in the morning and riding bicycles and motorcycles and buying toy airplanes, and he's donating all this energy to something else,and it's taking 100 percent of our energy to do what we're doing on the stage, we were getting ripped off. I'm hoping Izzy's new album rocks. But at the same time, it'll be like "Why couldn't he do that with us?" He wouldn't do anything.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/axl-rose-the-rolling-stone-interview-19920402#ixzz46hcZKNT3
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

 

 

Edited April 24, 2016 by stella

[Nick Cobraetti]

6 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

This is correct.. Izzy wasn't running around on stage enough for Axl. 

Izzy also didn't show up to the studio, video shoots, rehearsals or to do press and was no longer writing with the band. It wasn't just Axl who was ticked.

[bigpoop]

He didn't like the direction the music was taking. Just listening to his solo albums would show you that he was coming from a different place.

[willl]

11 minutes ago, bigpoop said:

He didn't like the direction the music was taking. Just listening to his solo albums would show you that he was coming from a different place.

Yup.... everyone on this forum should go listen to the Ju Ju Hounds album again Or their bsides. It's all better than Appetite imho

In contrast to stella's post above (quoting Axls POV) fans should also go and read Izzys interviews from around the time The Ju Ju Hounds album was released, just to get a balanced view of both sides at the time.

Axl maybe saw it as Izzy being lazy, not pulling his weight, not doing interview/videos etc, whereas Izzy (judging by his comments) viewed GNR as being too far removed from what it originally started out as.... a rock n roll band playing music.

He was now clean/sober and had to see his friends kill themselves on a daily basis, there were riots because Axl was late or whatever, they were spending millions of $$$ on music videos, he's asked to sign a contract which made him a hired hand even though he wrote the songs, he turns up in Chicago (sober) to work on UYI and finds the band in the usual disarray, the band takes so long to release UYI that Izzy can't even remember the songs they've worked on because they were recorded so long ago etc ...... Go read his interview in Vox 1991 (before he even quits Guns) and you can tell already that he was ready to checkout because of the superstar bullshit that seems to be the polar opposite of what Izzy stands for.

 

[GNRfan2008]

1 minute ago, downliner said:

Yup.... everyone on this forum should go listen to the Ju Ju Hounds album again Or their bsides. It's all better than Appetite imho

I like Izzy's solo stuff but I completely disagree with that statement. None of the solo material by any member is anywhere near as good as what they did together with Appetite, Lies, and UYI. 

[willl]

Just now, GNRfan2008 said:

I like Izzy's solo stuff but I completely disagree with that statement. None of the solo material by any member is anywhere near as good as what they did together with Appetite, Lies, and UYI. 

I know I'm very much in the tiny majority with this opinion I might even be the only Gunner who would choose JJH over AFD. It's just my desert island disc, f'n love it lol

Not knocking Appetite or Lies either, they're phenomenal albums.

[bigpoop]

I don't know if I'd say JJH is better  than  Appetite but I'd certainly say it's more listenable to me today in 2016.

[RONIN]

One of Izzy's last interviews before he quit the band (sheds a lot of light on the UYI sessions):

http://www.oocities.org/rattlesnake_suitcase/vox91.htm

[Tom-Ass]

14 hours ago, sanity_lost said:

Here is the source (I assume this is what Tom-Ass was talking about). Seemed that Axl was pretty frustrated with Izzy in general in this interview. But with everything else he said I doubt it was only because Izzy wasn't running around.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/axl-rose-the-rolling-stone-interview-19920402?page=4

I almost positive I have heard it from Izzy at some point as well. Would never know where to find it though.

[Tom-Ass]

10 hours ago, downliner said:

I know I'm very much in the tiny majority with this opinion I might even be the only Gunner who would choose JJH over AFD. It's just my desert island disc, f'n love it lol

Not knocking Appetite or Lies either, they're phenomenal albums.

Lol, you are definitely  on a deserted island but I do LOVE that first JuJu album.. Sooo good and probably my favorite out of all the Gn'R solo albums. 

[Original GNR]

9 hours ago, RONIN said:

One of Izzy's last interviews before he quit the band (sheds a lot of light on the UYI sessions):

http://www.oocities.org/rattlesnake_suitcase/vox91.htm

Izzy: " I was staying in a hotel in Venice and he (Slash) showed up at four in the morning, fucked out of his mind. How he managed to drive there will always remain a mystery to me! So I let him spend the night. The next morning I find two rigs (syringes) hidden in my closet. I told him: 'Listen, fucker, I got problems and I just can't have this shit around,' 'cos I was on probation for six months at the time. And I had to do drug testing - fuckin' involuntary piss-tests almost every day for about a month as well.  "

Izzy:  "Stradlin starts winding the tape forward in search of a song he can't stop laughing about. "Slash has this song, it's called 'Coma', and it's fuckin' 15 minutes long. And I still don't know it, man. I have to take a special chord chart with me whenever we play it. There's like 50 chords at the end of it and I just can't follow them."

Edited April 24, 2016 by Original GNR

[pacu44]

15 hours ago, sanity_lost said:

Here is the source (I assume this is what Tom-Ass was talking about). Seemed that Axl was pretty frustrated with Izzy in general in this interview. But with everything else he said I doubt it was only because Izzy wasn't running around.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/axl-rose-the-rolling-stone-interview-19920402?page=4

Axl's ego telling a guy who is heavily responsible for a lot of the material to follow orders when it was a band...

Axl leaving the stage during the show, not showing up or very late... Drug addicts all around him and he is trying to stay sober..

I am sure you would stick around, right?

 

Edited April 24, 2016 by pacu44