Anyone else pleased that Axl hasn't abandoned Chinese? And how do Slash fans feel about him playing on CD-era songs?

[NicDwolfwood]

52 minutes ago, gnfnr2k said:

 CITR is as good as 90% of the songs on the UYI albums and even some on AFD.  (the Brian May version I am talking about) It also has some of the best lyrics , probably the best of the CD era songs.  

We'll agree to disagree on this subject. Im not a fan of song that is on the album, and as for the Brain May version, its not on the album, so it either wasnt to the liking of Axl, or it was gonna cost the label too much $$(as if the album wasnt already expensive enough) 

Im not even gonna touch that first sentence you wrote..If that is your opinion, then cool, dont let me stop you

 

[Bobbo]

To me, they're just replacement covers for songs like riff Raff and Glad to Be Here. Convenient piss breaks.

 

It is what it is. A slight compromise for Slash and Duff so Axl doesn't have to have his ego bruised. Still think it's utterly pointless since no one in the audience cares/wants it. But small price to pay to have Slash and Duff back I guess.

[PsychoKiss344]

2 minutes ago, Bobbo said:

To me, they're just replacement covers for songs like riff Raff and Glad to Be Here. Convenient piss breaks.

 

It is what it is. A slight compromise for Slash and Duff so Axl doesn't have to have his ego bruised. Still think it's utterly pointless since no one in the audience cares/wants it. But small price to pay to have Slash and Duff back I guess.

I enjoy the album and love hearing Chinese Democracy, Better & This I Love live!

[DieselDaisy]

They are not very good songs and Chinese is certainly an average record so they should not be present at the expense of songs like My Michelle. It is obviously a face saving exercise by Axl: ''look, Nugnr is not being thrown in the dustbin of history''. However, that being said, if Axl is insisting on their inclusion, you can automatically see the results: these Chinese songs are 500 times superior for Slash's presence. There are now these great solos of his to look forward. So, it is a compromise of sorts. You are never going to erase the terrible lyrics of the title track but at least you have an one minute little solo to enjoy.

 

[smoke]

15 hours ago, Towelie said:

First question:

1. Is anyone else relieved that this tour isn't a complete nostalgia trip?

All the AFD5 mullethead purists seemed to throw their toys out of the pram around the Troubedour gig when they realised there was no Steven and Izzy and that Slash was going to play Axl's songs. It gives me great pleasure to see those whiney little bitches cry about that, because I was worried that Axl was going to abandon everything he had done for the last 15 years and disassociate himself from Chinese Democracy, which I think would've been a slap in the face to the fans who stuck by this band 2001-2014.

Second question:

2. How do Slash fans feel about him playing on CD-era material?

This is the most interesting thing about this whole reunion for me. I'm especially interested in the opinion of the Slash fans who hated NuGNR and Chinese Democracy. For me, I was always a supporter of NuGNR and loved CD to death, but I'm also a massive fan of the original band and a fan of Slash's solo stuff (to a lesser degree). So for me, it is so surreal seeing him standing in front of the CD-era GNR logo and seeing him soloing over Chinese Democracy, Better and This I Love. But it's good, you can watch these songs and almost pretend as if Slash had never left Guns. It also gives me more hope for Axl/Slash to work together on new material.

But it has to be said, it's something I thought I would never see. I always thought if Slash rejoined the band, that would be it for all Chinese Democracy era material and the band would pick up where UYI left off (which I think some folks were hoping for with this reunion). I personally have more respect for the man in the tophat for playing on these songs. I'm sure it's something Slash grappled with and decided to do it to please Axl and the NuGNR fanbase and as a huge fan of CD-era GNR, it is nice to see that Axl hasn't abandoned the album like I thought he would when the reunion was announced.

Late to the thread, but I totally agree with you. There's too much good stuff on CD to throw it away, AND them playing it makes me think this will be a functioning band and not a nostalgia trip.

Amazingly, I'm even over Izzy and Steven, though I DO hope to see at least Steven guest at some point - that dude is so awesome and deserves the shot.

Couldn't be happier with the way things are going so far!

[Vic Sage]

I like what they have done with these songs.I think this is Axl's way of saying that Numetal GNR was not that great of a band.CD always seemed to have been missing something to me anyways.
 

[AxlRoseCDII]

I think that it's amazing Slash has played on Chinese songs. In fact, it blows my mind. Imagine if you told someone one day Slash would play Chinese Democracy, in 2001 after Rock in Rio.

As much as my icon will make me seem like I would prefer Finck's solo on Til, I gotta say Slash's solo was legendary and finally completed the song. It made me think how awesome the song would be if it was released during the mid 90's...I think it would have been another hit on the caliber of November Rain.

[DieselDaisy]

14 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

I'm happy to have a honest discussion about the weaknesses of Chinese Democracy - notably the title track is a filler at best, half of it sounds nothing like Guns N' Roses, Scraped / Shacklers / Rhiad / ITW don't fit in cohesively and feel experimental, and that it's overproduced.

But "average"? Come off it Daisy.  

If you're going to criticize the other songs at least have an argument on why. 

How long have you got as I could write an essay on why Chinese Democracy is a middling record (give me some respect, I didn't say it was ''total shite'' as many would say). I really cannot see how it can be thought of as anything greater than a weak album.

[Free Bird]

I didn't want them to play CD songs, but I'm ok with it now. The song choices are ok and I wouldn't mind hearing TWAT and Madagascar as well at some point.

Slash's TIL solo is incredible while I prefer Finck's Better solo.

[Bumblefeet]

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

They are not very good songs and Chinese is certainly an average record so they should not be present at the expense of songs like My Michelle. It is obviously a face saving exercise by Axl: ''look, Nugnr is not being thrown in the dustbin of history''. However, that being said, if Axl is insisting on their inclusion, you can automatically see the results: these Chinese songs are 500 times superior for Slash's presence. There are now these great solos of his to look forward. So, it is a compromise of sorts. You are never going to erase the terrible lyrics of the title track but at least you have an one minute little solo to enjoy.

 

I was checking concert videos from the Vegas shows on youtube and was surprised that on saturday, for that particular day, "This I Love" was the top viewed with 50K views (only that day, and other songs like WTTJ etc. obviously have more traction overall). But still, I wasn't suspecting TIL to be that popular.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Bumblefeet

[DieselDaisy]

9 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

I'm interested in hearing your opinion, you can give me as many or few words as you'd like. 

We're getting into semantics but "average" is different than "weak". I would object to the former on the guitar playing alone and then you changed your word of choice. 

If I'm being as objective as possible: I think it's a meandering album that lacks in any sort of narrative or sonic cohesion and that the overproduction distracts from the songs but I like all of the songs and love some of them. I think Chuck Klosterman was right when he said that Axl thinks every GN'R song should sound like "Rocket Queen" and have a fast part, a slow part, and a random change in direction at the bridge, and that hurts the songs on Chinese Democracy. 

I think that "Better" and "IRS" are the only interesting "rock" songs on the record and "Street of Dreams" and "Prostitute" sound like GN'R and are great songs as well. I also think that "Oh My God" is an awesome song that doesn't sound too far different from "Coma" and it's a shame that it was shit on and never released. I think Axl's songwriting can be incomprehensible at times but it was on the "Use Your Illusion" albums as well.

It's impossible to detach the politics or the context from the release but wipe everyone's memory and put out the '99 versions of the all the songs to scale back the bullshit and I think it's a hit record that people like, either quietly when they aren't quietly hating Axl or with gusto like some fans still do.

I found it really interesting and was curious about what else Axl had up his sleeve.

Where do you want me to begin? Lyrics? ''sitting in a Chinese stew''? The production - the bleeps and farts? The music? Shackler's Revenge, Scraped, and the title track are three of the worst songs I have ever heard. If the World and Rhiad are close behind. I just think it is a piss poor album - what more do you want me to say? 

[highvoltage]

15 hours ago, bigpoop said:

This I Love is an unbelievably bad song. Just dismal. No way a turd like that would have even made it on a record were Axl wasn't 100% in charge. Better is only slightly more tolerable. CD is okay.

 

Not surprised at all that Slash is playing them. I always assumed Axl woulld have insisted on it.

While I don't particularly care for TIL either (terrible lyrics, but I enjoy it live) - you're way off on how it made it's way onto the record. From the man himself:

Quote

I didn’t make a solo record. A solo record would be completely different than this and probably much more instrumental. I made a Guns record with the right people who were the only people who really wanted to help me try, were qualified and capable while enduring the public abuse for years . The songs were chosen by everyone involved. I didn’t want to do This I love in anyway shape or form and Robin and Caram insisted gaining Tommy’s and the others support. There’s been a lot of pressure to go with using my name (all external) but that never felt right to me for this band and the parameters in regard to this music have lots more to do with the mindset of Guns than something else. 

Axl's post addressing TIL's inclusion on CD

EDIT: Anyone who's not read the "Axl Chats" - the one I linked above is one of the most interesting (IMO). He goes as in-depth on the "GNR name" issue as I've ever seen. Always found his side of the story very interesting, and I'm curious whether we'll find out how they managed to put it aside...

Edited April 11, 2016 by highvoltage

[sunnsational]

15 hours ago, Towelie said:

Well, for starters, Shacklers solo is played on a fretless, which is something Slash has never done (that we've seen anyway). And it doesn't take a musical genius to recognise that Ron Bumblefoot Thal is a lot more technically gifted at the guitar than Slash. I'm not saying he's a better player, but technically speaking, there's no comparison.

You'd be crazy to even consider that Slash would desire to play a solo on a fretless guitar or even try to cater to copying something Bumblefoot wrote/recorded. It's never going to happen. Not just because it's more technically demanding either.

I'll recognize that Bumblefoot is a talented individual, but his inclusion in GN'R has been one of the worst decisions Axl Rose has ever made. His guitar tone was usually atrocious and in no way complimenting to the material or the band. He's full of talented tricks and gimmicks, but that's part of his thing. Not too unlike Buckethead. But the difference is that Buckethead's tone complimented and fit with GN'R very, very well. I realized years ago that Buckethead is a much more suitable replacement for Slash than Bumblefoot, by far. He plays Les Pauls and his tone reflected that Slash sound, albeit with his own technique and style. Back in 2001, it took me a while to accept Buckethead. But once I did, I found a brilliant guitarist that has a lot of quality solo material and was happy to see him be apart of the new lineup.  I was bummed to see him depart from new GN'R and my strong support and following of this era of the band came grinding to a halt once Bumblefoot joined. Then DJ Ashba sealed the deal for me. That lineup was embarrassing. Thank god for Fortus. It just blows my mind that so many people on here love Bumblefoot...I can't wrap my head around it.

 

This is my opinion, but this opinion is coming from a person who enjoys many styles of music, including artists from the industrial/noise/electronic genres. So before you assume I'm just a "nu-GN'R hater" and worship Slash or the "AFD5" you're far from correct. Don't get me wrong, I do worship Slash. But I actually love Buckethead and have attended his concerts and own his material, so I feel like my opinion of Bumblefoot has some value other than just another close-minded old school GN'R fan. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by sunnsational

[Free Bird]

37 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

I didn't want them to play CD songs, but I'm ok with it now. The song choices are ok and I wouldn't mind hearing TWAT and Madagascar as well at some point.

Slash's TIL solo is incredible while I prefer Finck's Better solo.

Sorry for quoting myself but I want to add that I still think it would be cool to play Anastasia as well. Even if it's a one night thing.

[sunnsational]

4 hours ago, Ant said:

Seriously, how awesome is that Layla bit.... all huddled around Axl's piano? 

I'm so happy about the "Layla" jam. The craziest thing is since I was a teenager, the two main songs I always play on piano (and consider myself good at) are "November Rain" and the end of "Layla." So this inclusion really sorta shocks me since its so appropriate with my musical side of life since I started playing. Such a cool coincidence.

[DR DOOM]

I'd love to hear Slash rip the fuck out of IRS, like you know he would.

I'm totally fine with CD songs being played by "the big 3" but if I had to choose which ones they played it wouldn't be Better, TIL and Chinese Democracy.

I'd pick IRS and The Blues.

 

 

[Lio]

18 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

Sorry for quoting myself but I want to add that I still think it would be cool to play Anastasia as well. Even if it's a one night thing.

Yes, that would be great! I hope further on in the tour that might be possible.

 

As for the questions, yes, I liked Chinese and I like they still play songs from it, even if those three songs aren't my favourites on the album. (IRS and The Blues would be great indeed, Dr Doom. I'd like TWAT too.) To me, it's about what it means, like someone already mentioned. Slash is playing CD songs! It means so much to me they're back together and seem happy, and they're willing to try and make it work.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but Slash doing CD songs, and reworking solos, and Axl doing Coma, gives me a lot more confidence in this GNR reunion (or regrouping, whatever) than I had a few weeks ago. When I see them together on stage, I feel all fuzzy and warm inside

[Bumblefeet]

 

[RichardNixon]

I am a big fan of Chinese  Democracy, so I'm glad to see those songs included in the set.

[Bumble's Bridge Pickup]

Seeing Slash tackle the CD stuff is the most interesting part of the reunion for me (also, hearing rare gems like Coma). 3 CD songs in the set shouldn't really be too much for anyone. 

[wasted]

4 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

I'm happy to have a honest discussion about the weaknesses of Chinese Democracy - notably the title track is a filler at best, half of it sounds nothing like Guns N' Roses, Scraped / Shacklers / Rhiad / ITW don't fit in cohesively and feel experimental, and that it's overproduced.

But "average"? Come off it Daisy.  

If you're going to criticize the other songs at least have an argument on why. 

They took the production of those songs beyond UYI but isn't Scraped just a My Michelle riff with OTGM type lyrics? Shackler's  is Locomotive in a YCBM structure with It's So Easy vibe. Riad isn't far off something like Garden of Eden? Of course it has a lot of 90s productions and styles of guitar so it doesn't sound like old Guns but that could be expected. 

Personally don't see much wrong with Chi dem, it's pretty catchy Nirvana/RATM/MArilyn Manson influenced rocker but often sounds dusturbingly like a 90's version of Jungle. 

I think Slash on Chi dem, Better, TIL gives a road map to how the new record could sound. 

[NicoRourke]

6 hours ago, Bobbo said:

 

 

Still think it's utterly pointless since no one in the audience cares/wants it. But small price to pay to have Slash and Duff back I guess.

I don't think that's true. A lot of people seem to enjoy hearing Axl on TIL and other CD tracks (from what can be seen in YT videos).

[smakci]

if Slash doesnt care and plays CD songs why would we care..its all good    i was hoping for some new songs insted of CD...but it is all good

[Tom-Ass]

3 hours ago, NicoRourke said:

I don't think that's true. A lot of people seem to enjoy hearing Axl on TIL and other CD tracks (from what can be seen in YT videos).

I think a big part of that was because they were special shows. There were die hards that flew in from all over the world so there were definitely more people that were familiar with the songs.. That won't be the case this summer.  I thing TIL and Better are awful songs.. 3 songs was way overkill. The title track is ok but the rest are wastes of setlist space.

[bigpoop]

7 hours ago, highvoltage said:

While I don't particularly care for TIL either (terrible lyrics, but I enjoy it live) - you're way off on how it made it's way onto the record. From the man himself:

Axl's post addressing TIL's inclusion on CD

EDIT: Anyone who's not read the "Axl Chats" - the one I linked above is one of the most interesting (IMO). He goes as in-depth on the "GNR name" issue as I've ever seen. Always found his side of the story very interesting, and I'm curious whether we'll find out how they managed to put it aside...

I meant in the original band and I still think it's right. Nobody who wasn't being paid a salary by Axl would feel the need to pump up that song. Members on equal footing would be able to tell him it stinks

 

That, and there would be competing material from the other guys so a dud like that wouldn't stand a chance in the first place. When there are multiple writers the material one contributes has to be strong. That one would never be able to make the cut because it is really  bad.