British Politics

[Dazey]

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

He is rather the antithesis of the hatchet-faced politically correct coffee drinking Guardian classes; loves a British pint - he's always in the boozer; has an identifiable ''roguish'' sense of humour. Heck, I like Farage far more than his own crappy party and even my anti-EU views fall completely short of his but the man is clearly a legend. 

He literally wants to get rid of EU regulations so he and his mates, Mogg and Johnson can make a fortune selling us off to the highest bidder. That's Brexit in a nutshell.

 

Edit: Harrogate is shite. Poor man's York with a couple of shitty tearooms and a bathhouse for homosexuals!

Edited October 20, 2018 by Dazey

[DieselDaisy]

6 minutes ago, Dazey said:

He literally wants to get rid of EU regulations so he and his mates, Mogg and Johnson can make a fortune selling us off to the highest bidder. That's Brexit in a nutshell.

 

Edit: Harrogate is shite. Poor man's York with a couple of shitty tearooms and a bathhouse for homosexuals!

We can negotiate with our natural allies, the commonwealth and Japan and your beloved United States. Europe (especially the French/Germans) and Britain have always hated each other. I love Europe also, the cradle of civilization, and still hold hope that some of my favourite countries (e.g. Italy) can escape the horrors of the EU, but we, let's face it, just don't get along.

[Dazey]

6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

We can negotiate with our natural allies, the commonwealth and Japan and your beloved United States. Europe (especially the French/Germans) and Britain have always hated each other. I love Europe also, the cradle of civilization, and still hold hope that some of my favourite countries (e.g. Italy) can escape the horrors of the EU, but we, let's face it, just don't get along.

I'd rather take one up the bum from Frau Merkel than go anywhere near a trade deal with the US right now given the circumstances. 

Edit: Also let's negotiate with Japan and the Yanks on free trade because shipping goods many thousand miles is such a wonderful alternative to trading with the single biggest market in the world 20 miles away.   

Edited October 20, 2018 by Dazey

[DieselDaisy]

11 minutes ago, Dazey said:

I'd rather take one up the bum from Frau Merkel than go anywhere near a trade deal with the US right now given the circumstances. 

Edit: Also let's negotiate with Japan and the Yanks on free trade because shipping goods many thousand miles is such a wonderful alternative to trading with the single biggest market in the world 20 miles away.   

Going to miss your camembert and bratwurst?

[Dazey]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Going to miss your camembert and bratwurst?

Not as much as I'm going to miss the NHS.

[DieselDaisy]

5 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Not as much as I'm going to miss the NHS.

That is already completely bollocked-up, I can tell you that one, from years of personal experience. 

[Dazey]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

That is already completely bollocked-up, I can tell you that one, from years of personal experience. 

If you think it's bad now then just wait until it's privatised as part of a shiny new Anglo-American trade deal. How does a grand a month in insurance sound to you? 

[DieselDaisy]

3 minutes ago, Dazey said:

If you think it's bad now then just wait until it's privatised as part of a shiny new Anglo-American trade deal. How does a grand a month in insurance sound to you? 

The experience my family have had with the NHS I'm border line thinking along the lines of (let's saying I've broken a leg) going around with some dodgy DIY medical job and a gammy leg than stepping foot in a NHS hospital!!

It has literally been absolute garbage for years thanks to decades and decades of mismanagement (commencing with the eradication of the old matron system). 

[Dazey]

15 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The experience my family have had with the NHS I'm border line thinking along the lines of (let's saying I've broken a leg) going around with some dodgy DIY medical job and a gammy leg than stepping foot in a NHS hospital!!

It has literally been absolute garbage for years thanks to decades and decades of mismanagement (commencing with the eradication of the old matron system). 

My wife's brother literally pays over $1000 a MONTH just for insurance coverage in the US. That's before deductibles, prescription and medication fees. Over here my insurance is covered through work and it's £50 a month extra for the wife and daughter for full coverage including cancer care. The fact that we have a state single payer system means that private insurers can't charge the earth and that people who can't afford private aren't completely fucked. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Dazey

[DieselDaisy]

7 minutes ago, Dazey said:

My wife's brother literally pays over $1000 a MONTH just for insurance coverage in the US. That's before deductibles, prescription and medication fees. Over here my insurance is covered through work and it's £50 a month extra for the wife and daughter for full coverage including cancer care. The fact that we have a state single payer system means that private insurers can't charge the earth and that people who can't afford private aren't completely fucked. 

What has this got to do with the EU?

You know is engulfing the country with swaths of poorly trained migrant labour from places like Somalia to sustain it, really the proper way to run anything let alone a health service?

The reason nurses quit or do not volunteer is that the pay is garbage (for the work). There were literally hundreds of people quitting the profession during my mother's tenure - ''this is shit, I'm going to sell stuff online or get a job in a call centre''. My mother, old enough to remember standards in the late '60s - '70s under the matron system, herself ended disillusioned with the profession, finding the hospitals dirty, the new staff lazy.

To fix the NHS,

- Give the nurses a good wage and they'll return

- bring back the matrons and old fashioned discipline

Problem solved.

[Dazey]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

What has this got to do with the EU?

You know is engulfing the country with swaths of poorly trained migrant labour from places like Somalia to sustain it, really the proper way to run anything let alone a health service?

The reason nurses quit or do not volunteer is that the pay is garbage (for the work). There were literally hundreds of people quitting the profession during my mother's tenure - ''this is shit, I'm going to sell stuff online or get a job in a call centre''. My mother, old enough to remember standards in the late '60s - '70s under the matron system, herself ended disillusioned with the profession, finding the hospitals dirty, the new staff lazy.

To fix the NHS,

- Give the nurses a good wage and they'll return

- bring back the matrons and old fashioned discipline

Problem solved.

Point being that voting to leave the EU will achieve none of the above. Last time I checked Somalia wasn't one of the member states so I'm guessing that lot are going nowhere much to your displeasure. If you're concerned about low wages on the other hand then I'm sure a private takeover with no financial burden on the patient at point of use will make a huge difference to nurses wages. Bravo Brexit!

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Point being that voting to leave the EU will achieve none of the above. Last time I checked Somalia wasn't one of the member states so I'm guessing that lot are going nowhere much to your displeasure. If you're concerned about low wages on the other hand then I'm sure a private takeover with no financial burden on the patient at point of use will make a huge difference to nurses wages. Bravo Brexit!

Don't they enter through Europe when Frau Merkel opened the gates?

Your opinions may be more liberal and enlightened than my mother's but the old people were genuinely scared of them, and their training was (often, not always) diabolical. I'm just relaying facts here. Do you honestly expect 100 year old people to suddenly acquire the cultural mores and morals of your twenty-something skinny jeaned man-bagged cosmopolitan? Many of them hadn't seen a black person before.

It was you who made the connection between Brexit and the NHS and I assumed you meant the migrant labour which sustain it. I find any sort of connection between the two flimsy - that stuff on the bus was indeed a load of shite, but why were people surprised haha? Probably written on a beer mat like 99.9% of all political slogans. 

[Dazey]

10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Don't they enter through Europe when Frau Merkel opened the gates?

Your opinions may be more liberal and enlightened than my mother's but the old people were genuinely scared of them, and their training was (often, not always) diabolical. I'm just relaying facts here. Do you honestly expect 100 year old people to suddenly acquire the cultural mores and morals of your twenty-something skinny jeaned man-bagged cosmopolitan? Many of them hadn't seen a black person before.

It was you who made the connection between Brexit and the NHS and I assumed you meant the migrant labour which sustain it. I find any sort of connection between the two flimsy - that stuff on the bus was indeed a load of shite, but why were people surprised haha? Probably written on a beer mat like 99.9% of all political slogans. 

I'm 39.

Who in the UK has never seen a black person in 2018?

You're not the 1st Brexiteer to confuse Somalia with Syria I guess.

As for the NHS and Brexit I was referring to your talk of a post Brexit trade deal between ourselves and the US. There has been much talk of the terms of such a deal and almost all involve the privatisation by stealth of the health service by opening it up to bidding from American companies. My concern being the experience I've had of both systems and not wanting our NHS to go the way of the US non health service.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Dazey

[wasted]

I’m sure Brexit is about the wealthy and political classes getting more control back, after bankrupting the country to get rich they now want the poor to rise up and make the country great again through hard work and industry. Code for having no money. But they haven’t done a stroke of work getting rich. They want lower taxes on their cash, not pay for welfare that will be siphoned off into government jobs/military. 

 

Edited October 20, 2018 by wasted

[Dazey]

3 minutes ago, wasted said:

I’m sure Brexit is about the wealthy and political classes getting more control back

That's exactly what it's about which is why it's so sickening that they've used the poorest among us as the vehicle to achieve it. 

[wasted]

22 minutes ago, Dazey said:

That's exactly what it's about which is why it's so sickening that they've used the poorest among us as the vehicle to achieve it. 

That’s what they always do. But yeah they used the poorest not the middle classes this time. I see the moddle classes as kind of poor.

there’s that quote, the rich have all the money and do none of the work, the middlesclasses have some of the money and do all of the work and the poor are there to scare the shit out of the middlesclass. 

All brexit means is the middlesclasses are going to have work twice as hard to make money with less perks. 

But that might benefit someone with their own business or poor people who want to work very hard to become the class that work very hard. 

But the prime role of government is keep the money and power away from the poor. 

Maybe the rich saw the moddleclass were getting too rich. Through property boom in 90s, gov hand outs to jobs and welfare. The rich were losing. 

But now they have created jobs for politicals and financial services, lawyers to fix this brexit mess they created. The money is flowing back to the establishment. 

 

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, Dazey said:

Who in the UK has never seen a black person in 2018?

There is of course a massive difference between possessing a Louis Armstrong LP or seeing a black person on Northumberland Street, and having a (non-English speaking) black person wipe your arse for the rest of your existence, but it is still entirely possible that anyone in Northumberland - we are quite underpopulated you know (319,000) and one of the less demographically diverse (98.4 caucasian) counties - who has passed through a British nursing home from the 1990s onwards would never have seen a black person face-to-face before.

1 hour ago, Dazey said:

You're not the 1st Brexiteer to confuse Somalia with Syria I guess.

Wow, you are not aware that Somalians have passed through Italy, i.e., EU!!

I didn't even vote by the way. It is a load of arse voting for anything (Len provide the Alf Garnet Prime Ministers quote please). We were getting rogered up the arse by Westminster, Frenchmen and Germans. Post-Brexit we'll merely continue to get rogered up the arse by Westminster.

I actually think not a lot will change after leaving the EU. 

1 hour ago, Dazey said:

As for the NHS and Brexit I was referring to your talk of a post Brexit trade deal between ourselves and the US. There has been much talk of the terms of such a deal and almost all involve the privatisation by stealth of the health service by opening it up to bidding from American companies. My concern being the experience I've had of both systems and not wanting our NHS to go the way of the US non health service.

The NHS will remain free - I am certain of that. It is too embedded in the British post-war psyche, of smug national recovery and ''something the stone-age beastly Americans don't possess'', to consider its transference to an American system. Labour screamed that ''Churchill would destroy it'' if he was returned in 1951. Did he? Britain was so embedded to the notion of free health care, that even hoary old imperial Tories wouldn't dream of unraveling it. 

Its quality of service is an entirely different subject.

Edited October 21, 2018 by DieselDaisy

[Padme]

8 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

He is rather the antithesis of the hatchet-faced politically correct coffee drinking Guardian classes; loves a British pint - he's always in the boozer; has an identifiable ''roguish'' sense of humour. Heck, I like Farage far more than his own crappy party and even my anti-EU views fall completely short of his but the man is clearly a legend. 

Just because he loves beer and he has charisma. That doesn't make him a good leader least of all a legend.

8 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

We can negotiate with our natural allies, the commonwealth and Japan and your beloved United States. Europe (especially the French/Germans) and Britain have always hated each other. I love Europe also, the cradle of civilization, and still hold hope that some of my favourite countries (e.g. Italy) can escape the horrors of the EU, but we, let's face it, just don't get along.

What Commonwealth country? Australia, New Zealand or Canada have other priorities. Also Japan has other priorities. Keep in mind that there is a Transpacific Trade Agreement. Still Brexit is not helping. It is sending the wrong messege to those countries. Nobody gives a shit about Little Britain. The UK matters as long as it is one of the main forces within the EU. And the U.S. only cares about NAFTA, and not too much either. Trump's priority is tariffs. Europe was not "the cradle of civilization" It was the Middle East. In Ancient History the region was called Mesopotamian. Greece and Rome came a lot later.

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, Padme said:

Just because he loves beer and he has charisma. That doesn't make him a good leader least of all a legend.

What Commonwealth country? Australia, New Zealand or Canada have other priorities. Also Japan has other priorities. Keep in mind that there is a Transpacific Trade Agreement. Still Brexit is not helping. It is sending the wrong messege to those countries. Nobody gives a shit about Little Britain. The UK matters as long as it is one of the main forces within the EU. And the U.S. only cares about NAFTA, and not too much either. Trump's priority is tariffs. Europe was not "the cradle of civilization" It was the Middle East. In Ancient History the region was called Mesopotamian. Greece and Rome came a lot later.

What a poor opinion of your country you have? Under your logic, one has to wonder how Britain coped before 1972! Anglo trade treaties not desirable by other countries!! Bollocks. 

[Padme]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

What a poor opinion of your country you have? Under your logic, one has to wonder how Britain coped before 1972! Anglo trade treaties not desirable by other countries!! Bollocks. 

 No, I'm NOT British. However I used to work with and for business partners there. I still have one of my cousins travelling often there due to business. Well I can tell you that after Brexit things are going to change for the worst there. I always admire everything British. In 1972 and before that the world was different. The UK can't travell back in time. Nobody can.  I'm not saying the UK won't be able to make a trade agreement. I'm saying the UK all by itself it won't be a priority for other countries.

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, Padme said:

 No, I'm NOT British. However I used to work with and for business partners there. I still have one of my cousins travelling often there due to business. Well I can tell you that after Brexit things are going to change for the worst there. I always admire everything British. In 1972 and before that the world was different. The UK can't travell back in time. Nobody can.  I'm not saying the UK won't be able to make a trade agreement. I'm saying the UK all by itself it won't be a priority for other countries.

So you don't even live here yet you are hypocritical to lecture me on the joys of the European Union, whilst I have to live with the absolute destruction caused by that said organisation (i.e. to our fisheries)? 

 

[Padme]

28 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

So you don't even live here yet you are hypocritical to lecture me on the joys of the European Union, whilst I have to live with the absolute destruction caused by that said organisation (i.e. to our fisheries)? 

 

I'm not lecturing you. If you have your opinions about other European countries, institutions and leaders. I also have the right to have opinions about the UK,  the political leaders and policies there.

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, Padme said:

I'm not lecturing you. If you have your opinions about other European countries, institutions and leaders. I also have the right to have opinions about the UK,  the political leaders and policies there.

It seems a bit hypocritical to me. 

At least Soul seems happy!

Edited October 21, 2018 by DieselDaisy

[wasted]

8 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

There is of course a massive difference between possessing a Louis Armstrong LP or seeing a black person on Northumberland Street, and having a (non-English speaking) black person wipe your arse for the rest of your existence, but it is still entirely possible that anyone in Northumberland - we are quite underpopulated you know (319,000) and one of the less demographically diverse (98.4 caucasian) counties - who has passed through a British nursing home from the 1990s onwards would never have seen a black person face-to-face before.

Wow, you are not aware that Somalians have passed through Italy, i.e., EU!!

I didn't even vote by the way. It is a load of arse voting for anything (Len provide the Alf Garnet Prime Ministers quote please). We were getting rogered up the arse by Westminster, Frenchmen and Germans. Post-Brexit we'll merely continue to get rogered up the arse by Westminster.

I actually think not a lot will change after leaving the EU. 

The NHS will remain free - I am certain of that. It is too embedded in the British post-war psyche, of smug national recovery and ''something the stone-age beastly Americans don't possess'', to consider its transference to an American system. Labour screamed that ''Churchill would destroy it'' if he was returned in 1951. Did he? Britain was so embedded to the notion of free health care, that even hoary old imperial Tories wouldn't dream of unraveling it. 

Its quality of service is an entirely different subject.

They need to nationalize the trains too. They were an absolute shambles in the summer. Not just rubbish but a multi dimensional shit show. I need an exotic trolley of craft beers or even a seat but at least run on time. Air con would be a plus. 

Edited October 21, 2018 by wasted

[Dazey]

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

So you don't even live here yet you are hypocritical to lecture me on the joys of the European Union, whilst I have to live with the absolute destruction caused by that said organisation (i.e. to our fisheries)? 

She's right though. The problem with your way of thinking on this is that the issues you have with the EU are historical and that leaving won't rectify the situation.

It's a case of better to be inside the tent pissing out than vice versa surely?

Brexit isn't suddenly going to put 50% on a nurses salary and bring back the fishing industry. What it will likely do is make the country poorer thus shrinking the pot from which we would draw resources to offer decent wage rises. The reason we have so much foreign labour in the health service is because we can't recruit enough domestic talent at the going rate. Post Brexit that is unlikely to change and we'll simply find ourselves with an even more severe shortage of labour and less cash to throw at the problem.

It's all a load of willy waving Little Englander mentality in which it doesn't matter if we're worse off because most of those who voted leave had fuck all to begin with. We're all in the shit together now (apart from the ruling classes and bankers who stand to make a killing) but at least we stuck it to Johnny Foreigner eh? 

Edited October 21, 2018 by Dazey