British Politics

[Padme]

51 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

So you cannot even bring yourself to admit that the reason areas of the country voted leave was because the EU had crippled their industries? You cannot countenance such an idea? I live in the actual area I'm describing, and relaying you why people voted leave here! I am sitting in the bloody place right now, as I speak!! 

You cannot bring yourself to entertain such a notion.

I thought I made myself clear on the matter before. But I do it again. No, I don't blame the EU for the struggle and destruction of industries. Times change then change with the times before things reach a point of no return.  But if I have to put the finger at someone. That someone is the British Government. Not only this current governerment but also going back 30 or 40 years  of careless and incompetence. Of course I don't expect the two main political parties to accept any blame or take any responsibility. For them it is a lot easier to blame the EU. I regret the British people allow them to get away with it.

I'm not saying the EU is perfect. Nothing is perfect and mistakes were made for sure. I hope they can learn a lesson. But I don't make them the scapegoat.

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, Padme said:

I thought I made myself clear on the matter before. But I do it again. No, I don't blame the EU for the struggle and destruction of industries. Times change then change with the times before things reach a point of no return.  But if I have to put the finger at someone. That someone is the British Government. Not only this current governerment but also going back 30 or 40 years  of careless and incompetence. Of course I don't expect the two main political parties to accept any blame or take any responsibility. For them it is a lot easier to blame the EU. I regret the British people allow them to get away with it.

I'm not saying the EU is perfect. Nothing is perfect and mistakes were made for sure. I hope they can learn a lesson. But I don't make them the scapegoat.

I am not asking your opinion on the destruction of our fishing industry - clearly you have no sympathy. I'm stating that you cannot bring yourself to admit that this is the reason coastal communities (not you) voted ''leave'' in 2016; you simply cannot admit this point; it has to be some other cack such as ''misinformation''.

[Dazey]

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I am not asking your opinion on the destruction of our fishing industry - clearly you have no sympathy. I'm stating that you cannot bring yourself to admit that this is the reason coastal communities (not you) voted ''leave'' in 2016; you simply cannot admit this point; it has to be some other cack such as ''misinformation''.

You could argue that voting to make yourself worse off out of spite over something that happened over 40 years ago is bloody stupid though. I say this as somebody from a north east coastal town (Redcar) who lived in Hull (possibly the worst hit of all the fishing economies along with Grimsby) between 2009 and 2014 and saw 1st hand the issues you speak of. 

I'm also from a town that recently saw it's steel industry come to an end causing untold misery and sweeping unemployment which many would say could have been averted had we not been subject to EU regulation. 

Problem is that voting leave doesn't benefit these people. Just because we leave the EU doesn't automatically mean Iceland is suddenly going to let us fish in their waters again or that Teesside can suddenly make steel at a price that can compete with China. It's just idiocy pure and simple. 

Your problem is that you're failing to look at the bigger picture objectively. Much of what you've said with regard to the EU is true to a point. It just seems like you're more interested in making a point through martyrdom than actually trying to solve the problem at hand.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Dazey

[Padme]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

I am not asking your opinion on the destruction of our fishing industry - clearly you have no sympathy. I'm stating that you cannot bring yourself to admit that this is the reason coastal communities (not you) voted ''leave'' in 2016; you simply cannot admit this point; it has to be some other cack such as ''misinformation''.

I have sympathy. Of course it is sad and unfair to see people losing their jobs. But what the British government did to help them cope with the situation? Did the local community leaders came up with a plan B, C or D? They voted Leave because some populist politicians made them believe that they could have their industry back if they vote Leave. And that's not true.

[Graeme]

2 hours ago, Dazey said:

You could argue that voting to make yourself worse off out of spite over something that happened over 40 years ago is bloody stupid though. I say this as somebody from a north east coastal town who lived in Hull for 4 years and saw 1st hand the issues you speak of. Problem is that voting leave doesn't benefit these people. Just because we leave the EU doesn't automatically mean Iceland is suddenly going to let us fish in their waters again. It's just idiocy pure and simple. 

It's like poor/struggling Americans formerly employed in heavy industry voting for Trump. Their standard of living is not going to improve under his economic philosophy any more than the post-industrial communities of England and Wales are going to benefit from leaving the EU. Working-class conservatism is a baffling and depressing phenomenon. 

[DieselDaisy]

6 hours ago, Padme said:

I have sympathy. Of course it is sad and unfair to see people losing their jobs. But what the British government did to help them cope with the situation? Did the local community leaders came up with a plan B, C or D? They voted Leave because some populist politicians made them believe that they could have their industry back if they vote Leave. And that's not true.

I am not defending the British government. It was Ted Heath who got us in this mess by agreeing to the biggest loss of sovereignty since the Norman Conquest!

[wasted]

12 hours ago, soon said:

Just learned about Brexit Preppers. They are concerned about the fall out of a no deal exit from the EU. So they stock supplies. Theres too much going on in the world for me to go super deep into the day to day of the Brexit reality. Is this the type of thing that regular folks would take seriously and buy a few extra cans of beans, or more of a fringe thing?

There's a Facebook group with over 1,000 members where people can discuss "practical preparations" for a "life after Brexit."

There's also a leaflet called "Getting Ready Together" circulating.

"We can't change a lot of things, but we can be ready for the worst possible outcome, because nobody died from being over-prepared," former police officer James Patrick, the leaflet's author, told the New York Times, which reported on the preppers.  

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-thursday-edition-1.4868294/meet-one-of-the-worried-brits-stockpiling-goods-as-brexit-looms-1.4868301

I can’t stock pile enough wine, it’s only going to last a few months. We’re going to have to take the Costco warehouse hostage. 

But there’s a show called Wartime Farm. We are preparing to get the old harvester out and threahing by hand. Pickling swedes to replace Serville Oranges. Making potato deserts. Brewing our own beer. The apocalypse is coming. 

[wasted]

I sort of see the UK as a way to avoid wars between England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Politically it’s harder to start if you are kind controlled from same place. 

Imagine if there were no countries

[DieselDaisy]

5 hours ago, Graeme said:

It's like poor/struggling Americans formerly employed in heavy industry voting for Trump. Their standard of living is not going to improve under his economic philosophy any more than the post-industrial communities of England and Wales are going to benefit from leaving the EU. Working-class conservatism is a baffling and depressing phenomenon. 

Many working classes voted to leave because they're socialists, and that the EU is a centre-right ''Blairy'' institution which protects corporate elites. If you catch Corbyn in a rare fit of honesty, this would be his view (as it was for most of his life). 

Equally baffling is Scotland, ''far-left'' apparently?, support for the EU. It makes absolutely no sense. 

[Padme]

4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Many working classes voted to leave because they're socialists, and that the EU is a centre-right ''Blairy'' institution which protects corporate elites. If you catch Corbyn in a rare fit of honesty, this would be his view (as it was for most of his life). 

Equally baffling is Scotland, ''far-left'' apparently?, support for the EU. It makes absolutely no sense. 

Yes the working class and the Unions are socialists. But Brexit won't get them their jobs back with or without Blair, Corbyn, Farage, May or Boris

[DieselDaisy]

12 minutes ago, Padme said:

Yes the working class and the Unions are socialists. But Brexit won't get them their jobs back with or without Blair, Corbyn, Farage, May or Boris

I do not know what you are going on about: they might already have jobs, that not stopping them from being of the hard-left which is antithetical to the European Union.

[Padme]

40 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I do not know what you are going on about: they might already have jobs, that not stopping them from being of the hard-left which is antithetical to the European Union.

If they already have jobs. Chances are they gonna lose those jobs with Brexit. It is a very big change and gamble. There is no clarity and no certanty. Being hard left or hard right makes no difference. There's been two years since the referendum took place.  All I see so far is back and forth fights and divisions. No clear answers or plan.

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, Padme said:

If they already have jobs. Chances are they gonna lose those jobs with Brexit. It is a very big change and gamble. There is no clarity and no certanty. Being hard left or hard right makes no difference. There's been two years since the referendum took place.  All I see so far is back and forth fights and divisions. No clear answers or plan.

This is irrelevant to my point.

[Padme]

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

This is irrelevant to my point.

It is not. Your point is the EU destroyed jobs and towns. The working class got badly wounded.  So the EU is a worthless piece of shit. The UK shouldn't be part of it. Ok, fine but the UK has to pay 40 billions to get out. Those jobs are not coming back. Nobody will take back control of anything. On top of that the UK government and the main opposition party are divided and fight about what future plans for the UK should look like. They've been in this mess for two years already.  And it's impossible to see what can be accomplished with Brexit.

[DieselDaisy]

3 minutes ago, Padme said:

It is not. Your point is the EU destroyed jobs and towns. The working class got badly wounded.  So the EU is a worthless piece of shit. The UK shouldn't be part of it. Ok, fine but the UK has to pay 40 billions to get out. Those jobs are not coming back. Nobody will take back control of anything. On top of that the UK government and the main opposition party are divided and fight about what future plans for the UK should look like. They've been in this mess for two years already.  And it's impossible to see what can be accomplished with Brexit.

My last point was about the EU being antithetical to the hard-left. 

[Axl's Agony Aunt]

Your discussion might have unconsciously inspired my latest Folding Mirror poem. Thanks!

Armistice Soldiers’ Centenary, Community Politicians’ Buffoonery

keep on depressing
with all your messing
pushing down, down, down
no more playing the clown
keep straight face now
do nothing might raise brow

hide your emotion, restrain joyous commotion

still in basement without exit
despite sign marked Brexit
people voted to restore identity
democracy, democracy, democracy sincerity
we are not amused
you seem confused

https://fmpoetry.wordpress.com/

[wasted]

 I found a London Dry Gin for 2.90. That goes in the bunker pantry. 

We need a war.

[DieselDaisy]

The EU is going arse-over-tit independent of Brexit: there might not be much of a EU left for Britain to depart from,

- The Germans are so annoyed with Merkel, de facto head of the EU and enthusiast for unbridled immigration and EU style centre-right economics, that they hammer her in Hessen forcing her resignation from chairmanship of CDU and probably the winding down of her political career. 

- Crisis between the EU and Italians over their budget!! 

- More trivial but drunken Junker wants to abolish daylight saving and stick everyone on ''Berlin time'' - member states are annoyed at that. 

- Also, some EU guy in their tinpot assembly made a claim that the EU defeated the Nazis haha

Edited October 31, 2018 by DieselDaisy

[Len Cnut]

On 23/10/2018 at 4:17 PM, Axl's Agony Aunt said:

keep on depressing
with all your messing
pushing down, down, down
no more playing the clown
keep straight face now
do nothing might raise brow

 

I read this stanza in a James Brown voice and it really works!   All it needs is the 'HEH's'

Edited October 31, 2018 by Len Cnut

[wasted]

Can anyone summarize what is going on?

 

[DieselDaisy]

13 minutes ago, wasted said:

Can anyone summarize what is going on?

 

Junker is on his third bottle of vodka.

[wasted]

33 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Junker is on his third bottle of vodka.

So the UK and EU go out like true champions. Violent revolution?

[Padme]

7 hours ago, wasted said:

Can anyone summarize what is going on?

 

Brexit means The Life Of Brian meets The Full Monty

[wasted]

50 minutes ago, Padme said:

Brexit means The Life Of Brian meets The Full Monty

with Alf Garnet as Prime Minister and Stanley Mathews as god. 

I’m ahead of the game with my Gin dependence.

Edited November 1, 2018 by wasted

[Axl's Agony Aunt]

2 hours ago, wasted said:

with Alf Garnet as Prime Minister and Stanley Mathews as god. 

I’m ahead of the game with my Gin dependence.

I grew too bored of it ages ago, like some films I fast forward to the end.

Can't do that with Brexit, but not taking any interest, and just waiting for it to end!

What will be will be, and it probably won't matter that much to you and me!!