Explosion at Ariana Grande Concert Manchester UK

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The Daily Mail are asking the question whether or not cannabis is to blame: ''Potheads: DR MAX PEMBERTON asks if marijuana is a factor in jihadi murders as he says the liberal elite who push for looser drug laws should be shamed''. (It is one of the Mail's big crusades, cannabis, incidentally - especially Peter Hitchens). Pothead Jiahadists haha.

Impossibly young and innocent,

God bless their souls...they say life isn't always fair but this is just too much.

[wasted]

8 hours ago, Dan H. said:

Its important to remember that even with all this shit going on, we are living in the least violent period of human history.

The only route to defeating terrorism is to stay calm and keep a level head.

The only way to defeat terrorism is to stop destablizing middle eastern countries. Stop dressing up war profiteering as humanitarian aid. Honestly, I think they would stop if the terrorists hit Yale or the White House or something. Or maybe that would get a ground war, that just escalates shit. It doesn't even matter if the plan is centralized, the cultural wave is in motion. ME kids think Arianna Grande is to blame, or is a legit target. For whatever the west did, drone bomb a school by accident, it seems to reinforce a broader doctorine, it just feeds it. That goes for both sides, an attack like this fuels the wrong agenda. And I don't see a voice of reason in the media or a political candidate who wants to step up and say enough is enough. Come clean. It's a shame it will never happen. It's crazy, but what can you do?

[wasted]

11 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

The terrorist was born and raised in Manchester a decade before this was an every other week thing.

To be fair they've been to Syria and back. And the impetus behind the attack is 20 years bombing the ME. A drone bomb goes astray and kills innocents in Yemen we don't give a shit. We'll attack Trump on everything, that makes us feel superior, but when he kills an 8 year old kid in Yemen, the media, everyone looks the other way. Where's the outrage for that? The bottom line is we are hypocrites, whether we follow the media blindly or we unconsciously know not to deal with this, I don't know. We are the ostrich culture. The sad thing is it's unecessary. Large parts of the world are fine. It's just a few up there, they have to have gold palaces to get hard. And you have to look to our institutions to preach this money shit to us from kids, that breeds these corporate psychos, it's like cultural inbreeding. They are believers, they get so far in, it's like their careers, almost like political religion. They don't know not what they dos. Who knows maybe I'm wrong, but it's a long way back. It's not switch you flick. It's 30,50 years of history to rewind. 

[DieselDaisy]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4539242/KATIE-HOPKINS-ll-protect-kids-terror.html

Agree completely.

It is alright if you are an imbecile politician or a royal. One rule for them, one rule for everybody else.

[action]

8 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

How comes when I say it I'm a cunt?  

wait, you aren't?

[Padme]

1 hour ago, wasted said:

The only way to defeat terrorism is to stop destablizing middle eastern countries. Stop dressing up war profiteering as humanitarian aid. Honestly, I think they would stop if the terrorists hit Yale or the White House or something. Or maybe that would get a ground war, that just escalates shit. It doesn't even matter if the plan is centralized, the cultural wave is in motion. ME kids think Arianna Grande is to blame, or is a legit target. For whatever the west did, drone bomb a school by accident, it seems to reinforce a broader doctorine, it just feeds it. That goes for both sides, an attack like this fuels the wrong agenda. And I don't see a voice of reason in the media or a political candidate who wants to step up and say enough is enough. Come clean. It's a shame it will never happen. It's crazy, but what can you do?

Western countries? No, more like billionaire middle eastern kings driving a Ferrari and sailing in a big yachts. While the rest of the people are starving. So in order to stop possible rebelions, religious leaders brainwash those poor bastards with bullshit like western countries are "satan" worshippers. And those "satanic" people are to blame for the problems they have. Ariana Grande is not to blame an neither she nor concert goers are a legit targets

[wasted]

4 minutes ago, Padme said:

Western countries? No, more like billionaire middle eastern kings driving a Ferrari and sailing in a big yachts. While the rest of the people are starving. So in order to stop possible rebelions, religious leaders brainwash those poor bastards with bullshit like western countries are "satan" worshippers. And those "satanic" people are to blame for the problems they have. Ariana Grande is not to blame an neither she nor concert goers are a legit targets

No, but that's what they are brought up believe. I include Saudis as Western countries. I'm just saying nobody in the political arena stands up and says what it is. And I know smart people who can't see past their own bullshit to call them out. People are brainwashed or been so tied up in who they are or don't a flyin fuck that it's easier to score points off what the media tells them. I'm a great person, No one's better than me, I'm superior, I'm on the winning team. Etc. 

[DieselDaisy]

46 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

You're not a royalist?!

I'm not especially an -ist of anything really.

[DieselDaisy]

Further on the South Shields' couple, they're cricket fans.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3643136/manchester-bombing-dead-liam-curry-dad-dies-cancer/

Were should I say!

Edited May 25, 2017 by DieselDaisy

[king2vo]

21 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Further on the South Shields' couple, they're cricket fans.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3643136/manchester-bombing-dead-liam-curry-dad-dies-cancer/

Were should I say!

Heartbreaking. So many wasted young lives.

[DieselDaisy]

There is a good chance I've seen them around - infact a certitude considering the amount of (misspent) time I spend slobbing around cricket grounds.

[DieselDaisy]

I know someone who works for the father of the deceased girl and they were identified Tuesday (news leaked just today) and it was through DNA.

[king2vo]

On 24/05/2017 at 2:29 PM, action said:

i'm aware that things like this happen every day in the middle east, but here in europe it really is a new phenomenon. Yes there was the IRA, but not in belgium, not in france, not in sweden, not in germany...

that said the hypocrisy with europeans and the media is real. 20 years ago we saw terrorist attacks in the middle east but it was almost part of our television evening. now that it happens here too, it gets all the coverage. which is human nature i guess. people are selfish in nature: if it doesnt happen in my backyard i dont give a flying fuck. i'm guilty about that myself.

and here we are and we experience fear which people in the middle east experienced for years before us.

 

We didn't have the IRA but there was terrorism. There was something called Action Directe, for instance, among other groups. 

 

Look at the following stats

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_France#20th_century

Scroll down to the late 70s and go down till 2015/2016. It's just scary. It could be the same in the UK. 

 

[Sosso]

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/artists/next-ariana-grande-manchester-attack/amp/

I can totally understand her decision to cancel the tour dates. I hope the victims will get justice as soon as possible. I had tickets for Frankfurt btw. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Sosso

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Oh boy, the US is in trouble for leaking info from the UK. Can't blame Manchester and England for being upset. What the hell is going on? All this social media shit is fucking up everything. I just hope all the savages responsible are found and convicted of this terrible crime against innocent people. I think of the people in Manchester everyday and can't imagine what they are going through. It saddens me so much.

On another note, the news did interview a man the other day and he had on a GNR t shirt. Too bad he was one of the witnesses of the terrible crime.

Anyway, my thoughts and prayers are with the families and the victims of this terrible crime.  What has happened to this world?

[Dazey]

33 minutes ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

Oh boy, the US is in trouble for leaking info from the UK.

Yeah, I bet they're positively shitting their pants.

[action]

turns out the attacker was known with the authorities and on a "watch list"

this has nothing to do with being able to secure every big event, like searching for a needle in a haystack.

nor is it about raiding every mosque hoping to find terrorists sitting together making needle bombs.

that is just not feasible nor is it effective, as it only addresses the phase of execution (in other words, when its too late).

this is about making the effort of actually doing something about the people on such a watch list.

I have no idea how many people are on these lists. but i assume that there will have been good reasons for putting him on there. and if so, then it really becomes irrelevant wether it are 100 or 1000 people on such a list. this is not a stamp club we're talking about; this is about people hell bent on killing as many people as possible.

what's the point of having a damn list with radicals, but do nothing about it?

more money needs to go to investigation teams who should have both the material, manpower and juridical backing to follow these listed individuals accurately.

[king2vo]

31 minutes ago, action said:

turns out the attacker was known with the authorities and on a "watch list"

this has nothing to do with being able to secure every big event, like searching for a needle in a haystack.

nor is it about raiding every mosque hoping to find terrorists sitting together making needle bombs.

that is just not feasible nor is it effective, as it only addresses the phase of execution (in other words, when its too late).

this is about making the effort of actually doing something about the people on such a watch list.

I have no idea how many people are on these lists. but i assume that there will have been good reasons for putting him on there. and if so, then it really becomes irrelevant wether it are 100 or 1000 people on such a list. this is not a stamp club we're talking about; this is about people hell bent on killing as many people as possible.

what's the point of having a damn list with radicals, but do nothing about it?

more money needs to go to investigation teams who should have both the material, manpower and juridical backing to follow these listed individuals accurately.

 

Yes he was, like many of those who did the attacks in France. They just write lists and what? Someone who is S listed as they call it here should be arrested or something. 

 

 

[action]

18 minutes ago, king2vo said:

 

Yes he was, like many of those who did the attacks in France. They just write lists and what? Someone who is S listed as they call it here should be arrested or something. 

 

 

agreed, but there are 3 problems which i mentioned earlier:

- juridical: our juridical system isn't adequate when it comes to protect society against terrorism. they haven't committed an attack, so they can't be arrested. because the law says, no arrest without judgment, and no judgment without facts. there are some remedies, like the concept of "inchoate crime", but in that case the offender gets a relatively "low" punishment so he will walk a free man after a short time. Here, the law should change and make incriminable the mere act of banding together with the purpose of inciting hate / violence towards a certain group of people. The law should be precise enough as to ensure it is aimed directly at terrorism, and not other forms of crime. otherwise, you risk to have a big brother society and lose any individual rights. And i dont think we want that. but i think, you can make a good case on stripping any rights off aspiring terrorists: they dont deserve human rights as they lose all humanity. they are attacking humanity "as such" so why should they get the benefit of human rights at all?

- lack of manpower: there are just too few investigators to even follow the people on these lists. It's not the fault of the police / justice, but of the government who refuse to spend more money on the prevention of terrorism.

- lack of means: terrorists use new means of communicating like whats app and what have you. the reality is, the police isn't specialised enough in these new means of communication. you'd have one or two "IT-specialists" and the rest only have notions of it. the autohorities are always one step behind.

you can gain short term political gain by putting military on the streets, it makes the public feel safe but the sad reality is, it is totally ineffective (but the cheaper option since the military gets paid regardless) and terrorist attacks happen anyway.

Edited May 26, 2017 by action

[Len Cnut]

42 minutes ago, action said:

turns out the attacker was known with the authorities and on a "watch list"

this has nothing to do with being able to secure every big event, like searching for a needle in a haystack.

nor is it about raiding every mosque hoping to find terrorists sitting together making needle bombs.

that is just not feasible nor is it effective, as it only addresses the phase of execution (in other words, when its too late).

this is about making the effort of actually doing something about the people on such a watch list.

I have no idea how many people are on these lists. but i assume that there will have been good reasons for putting him on there. and if so, then it really becomes irrelevant wether it are 100 or 1000 people on such a list. this is not a stamp club we're talking about; this is about people hell bent on killing as many people as possible.

what's the point of having a damn list with radicals, but do nothing about it?

more money needs to go to investigation teams who should have both the material, manpower and juridical backing to follow these listed individuals accurately.

When things like this happen people start looking for someone to blame and the authorities are usually the first port of call but the fact is they stop a lot of people ALL the time, theres always some report in the papers about terrorist attack being thwarted, it just becomes usual for us, reading about that shit but if you think about it each instance of that shit, or a good few of em, is possibly one of these being thwarted.  

Also, in regards to watch lists and knowing people have been radicalised...what do you think that consists of?  What, videos of them having dinner with Bin Laden or something?  Its more that likely just knowing certain people have been in certain locations where the risk of 'x' is high.  And theres probably THOUSANDS of people like that.  What I'm tryna say I guess is that the authorities should get some credit too...a lot of credit even.  Its really easy to parade pictures of dead 8 yr old girls around and get your blood boiling behind a computer screen and typings in CAPS against people that actually put their lives on the line fighting this shit saying that their efforts ain't good enough or whatever (not talking about you or anyone in particular) but it might also be worth wondering what exactly you contribute to this cause that you feel so strongly about.

I mean oftentimes we all sit around, in regards to this and many other issues with about 1% of second and third hand information, not knowing our arse from our elbow, passionately discussing the inner working of intelligence agencies and politics when really, what do we really know about such things and their effectiveness or the viability of the half baked solution we dream up to what we consider to be their failings?

[action]

2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

When things like this happen people start looking for someone to blame and the authorities are usually the first port of call but the fact is they stop a lot of people ALL the time, theres always some report in the papers about terrorist attack being thwarted, it just becomes usual for us, reading about that shit but if you think about it each instance of that shit, or a good few of em, is possibly one of these being thwarted.  

Also, in regards to watch lists and knowing people have been radicalised...what do you think that consists of?  What, videos of them having dinner with Bin Laden or something?  Its more that likely just knowing certain people have been in certain locations where the risk of 'x' is high.  And theres probably THOUSANDS of people like that.  What I'm tryna say I guess is that the authorities should get some credit too...a lot of credit even.  Its really easy to parade pictures of dead 8 yr old girls around and get your blood boiling behind a computer screen and typings in CAPS against people that actually put their lives on the line fighting this shit saying that their efforts ain't good enough or whatever (not talking about you or anyone in particular) but it might also be worth wondering what exactly you contribute to this cause that you feel so strongly about.

I mean oftentimes we all sit around, in regards to this and many other issues with about 1% of second and third hand information, not knowing our arse from our elbow, passionately discussing the inner working of intelligence agencies and politics when really, what do we really know about such things and their effectiveness or the viability of the half baked solution we dream up to what we consider to be their failings?

i agree. it's because the public is numb and uninformed, that we have the government. We pay taxes (lots of taxes) and we expect, first and foremost, safety. i think that's the number one thing we can expect from the government.

the means to counter terrorists "do" exist. qualified people "do" exist. but they cost money. money, the government, just doesn't seem to want to spend for whatever reason.

it's not for the public to decide how to run an investigation, or to even criticise it (because lack of information), but every now and then a little snippet slips through which may seem questionable. In this case, the attacker was known all along as a radical. the fact is that justice doesn't have enough resources. We know this, because they tell us (at least, in belgium; i dont know how it is in the UK, but from what i've seen, it's insufficient).

[king2vo]

 

The only thing we can do is be vigilant, as they say. And carry on with our lives. 

It's true lots of attacks have been prevented. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/manchester-bombing-uk-terror-plots-foiled-rise-number-security-services-officials-a7755471.html

 

There could have been a lot more victims but security services did their best. 

 

 

Quote

 

At any one time MI5 is juggling around 500 active investigations relating to 3,000 people of interest, according to a source. 

 

 

 

[DieselDaisy]

Absolute bollocks. Abedi was reported to the authorities by mosques on two separate occasions as part of Prevent, the first of which was five years ago. His father was a supporter of a Libyan based Al Queda group. His brother was a supporter of ISIS. Abedi himself was injured fighting for ISIS! He had been to Libya. He had been to Dusseldorf and therefore was no doubt linked to the Dusseldorf group. What more evidence does one need?

British governments and security services have failed massively and they all now have blood on their hands.

[Len Cnut]

12 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Absolute bollocks. Abedi was reported to the authorities by mosques on two separate occasions as part of Prevent, the first of which was five years ago. His father was a supporter of a Libyan based Al Queda group. His brother was a supporter of ISIS. Abedi himself was injured fighting for ISIS! He had been to Libya. He had been to Dusseldorf and therefore was no doubt linked to the Dusseldorf group. What more evidence does one need?

British governments and security services have failed massively and they all now have blood on their hands.

Saw it on the telly did ya? 

[action]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Absolute bollocks. Abedi was reported to the authorities by mosques on two separate occasions as part of Prevent, the first of which was five years ago. His father was a supporter of a Libyan based Al Queda group. His brother was a supporter of ISIS. Abedi himself was injured fighting for ISIS! He had been to Libya. He had been to Dusseldorf and therefore was no doubt linked to the Dusseldorf group. What more evidence does one need?

British governments and security services have failed massively and they all now have blood on their hands.

security service can only do so much with the means they are given.

i'd say the real culprits here are politicians