Another US Gun Massacre - 27 Dead in Texas Church

[Padme]

55 minutes ago, classicrawker said:

Again this does not explain why he was an extreme athiest....Like I said he could had an abusive childhood and who knows what his religious upbringing was.......I realize you are religious which I respect but you are making assumptions without the facts.........

I don't know where the atheist thing comes from. There is nothing in media about it, at least not yet. All we know about this guy so far is that was in the Air Force. And he was abusive with his wife and child. When the Air Force found out the guy got dismissed. Also there is some rumour that this guy had some connection with this particular church. Still nothing confirmed at this point. Authorities still looking for a motive.

[Ace Nova]

Devin Patrick Kelley (right) appears to have a connection to the church (right inset) he targeted in Sutherland Springs, Texas. Wilson County Sheriff Joe Tackett said Monday that his ex in-laws attended the First Baptist Church. It was previously reported that Kelley's wife Danielle's (center) family (including mom Michelle, left) were parishioners. Tackett's statement that it was his ex's in-laws who attended the church indicate that he and his wife may have had a falling out. Danielle used to work as a teacher at the church, her mother is friends with the pastor's wife on social media. Records show they were married in April 2014, when Kelley was 23 and his bride was 19. He was also married at least once before, to a Tessa K Kelley. The couple divorced in 2012, the same year he was court-martialed for domestic violence. Kelley used to teach Bible studies, but family and friends say he became an atheist at some point. A former classmate told ABC News that Kelley hated religious people and that his social media posts on Sunday showed he was 'in a bad place'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/index.html

13 minutes ago, Padme said:

I don't know where the atheist thing comes from. There is nothing in media about it, at least not yet. All we know about this guy so far is that was in the Air Force. And he was abusive with his wife and child. When the Air Force found out the guy got dismissed. Also there is some rumour that this guy had some connection with this particular church. Still nothing confirmed at this point. Authorities still looking for a motive.

Daily Mail has been reporting it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5053013/Devin-Kelley-outcast-preached-atheism.html

Edited November 6, 2017 by Kasanova King

[Padme]

11 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Devin Patrick Kelley (right) appears to have a connection to the church (right inset) he targeted in Sutherland Springs, Texas. Wilson County Sheriff Joe Tackett said Monday that his ex in-laws attended the First Baptist Church. It was previously reported that Kelley's wife Danielle's (center) family (including mom Michelle, left) were parishioners. Tackett's statement that it was his ex's in-laws who attended the church indicate that he and his wife may have had a falling out. Danielle used to work as a teacher at the church, her mother is friends with the pastor's wife on social media. Records show they were married in April 2014, when Kelley was 23 and his bride was 19. He was also married at least once before, to a Tessa K Kelley. The couple divorced in 2012, the same year he was court-martialed for domestic violence. Kelley used to teach Bible studies, but family and friends say he became an atheist at some point. A former classmate told ABC News that Kelley hated religious people and that his social media posts on Sunday showed he was 'in a bad place'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/index.html

Daily Mail has been reporting it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5053013/Devin-Kelley-outcast-preached-atheism.html

 There is nothing in the U.S. media about the guy being an atheist. All the other stuff has been reported. It seems he hated his in laws. And his in laws attended that church in particular. So it is possible he hated that chuch as well.

Still there is a law that doesn't allow people convited of domestic violence to own guns. But this guy still owned a gun because there is no background check

[Ace Nova]

Just now, Padme said:

 There is nothing in the U.S. media about the guy being an atheist. All the other stuff has been reported. It seems he hated his in laws. And his in laws attended that church in particular. So it is possible he hated that chuch as well.

Still there is a law that doesn't allow people convited of domestic violence to own guns. But this guy still owned a gun because there is no background check

I think the domestic violence laws vary by state and severity of the offense.  In this case, it was later reported that he was not a felon so the guns were legal.  And of course, he went through a background check....it's Federal Law.

 

As for him being an atheist, the Daily Mail usually reports things a few hours before the U.S. media.  From my experience, they are usually spot on with information.  They reported news and information about the Vegas Shooter usually 6-12 hours before the U.S. media would run the stories.   I think the reason they get their information so fast along with usually hard to get pictures of certain events is because they pay for their information, sources, pics etc.

[Padme]

6 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

I think the domestic violence laws vary by state and severity of the offense.  In this case, it was later reported that he was not a felon so the guns were legal.  And of course, he went through a background check....it's Federal Law.

 

As for him being an atheist, the Daily Mail usually reports things a few hours before the U.S. media.  From my experience, they are usually spot on with information.  They reported news and information about the Vegas Shooter usually 6-12 hours before the U.S. media would run the stories.   I think the reason they get their information so fast along with usually hard to get pictures of certain events is because they pay for their information, sources, pics etc.

Authorities are still looking for motive. And the tragedy happened many hours ago. So the U.S. media had plenty of time to find out that information. So far nobody is talking about the guy being an atheist. Just a guy with a violent past with humans and animals. He got in trouble for hurting his dog. He was also charged with animal cruelty. Now the dog has nothing to do with religion.

[Dazey]

29 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

I think the domestic violence laws vary by state and severity of the offense.  In this case, it was later reported that he was not a felon so the guns were legal.  And of course, he went through a background check....it's Federal Law.

 

As for him being an atheist, the Daily Mail usually reports things a few hours before the U.S. media.  From my experience, they are usually spot on with information.  They reported news and information about the Vegas Shooter usually 6-12 hours before the U.S. media would run the stories.   I think the reason they get their information so fast along with usually hard to get pictures of certain events is because they pay for their information, sources, pics etc.

It's always easier to get your report out early when you make shit up all the time like the Daily Mail.

[Ace Nova]

32 minutes ago, Padme said:

Authorities are still looking for motive. And the tragedy happened many hours ago. So the U.S. media had plenty of time to find out that information. So far nobody is talking about the guy being an atheist. Just a guy with a violent past with humans and animals. He got in trouble for hurting his dog. He was also charged with animal cruelty. Now the dog has nothing to do with religion.

Bro, the guy was an atheist...and an "extreme" one at that.  He preached about atheism online and hated religious people.   Not sure what's so hard to understand about that.   Read the articles from the sources I posted.  

[Ace Nova]

14 minutes ago, Dazey said:

It's always easier to get your report out early when you make shit up all the time like the Daily Mail.

I think they report stories so fast that sometimes they can be off...I don't think their verification process is as long as other media outlets...lol.  But recently, they've been pretty good...and usually have the stories/pictures etc hours before anyone else.

[Padme]

14 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Bro, the guy was an atheist...and an "extreme" one at that.  He preached about atheism online and hated religious people.   Not sure what's so hard to understand about that.   Read the articles from the sources I posted.  

It is NOT what investgators are saying. Now YOU read this article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/11/06/investigators-hunt-for-motive-in-texas-church-shooting-as-the-grieving-spans-generations/?hpid=hp_hp-banner-high_texasshooting-714am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.f5be0bb2fbc5

[soon]

Well, looks like its DV, according to quote by Texas Public Safety Rep, just heard speak on the radio.   DV, just like so many other gun murders in the USA.  Heartbreaking stuff.

[Ace Nova]

14 minutes ago, Padme said:

It is NOT what investgators are saying. Now YOU read this article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/11/06/investigators-hunt-for-motive-in-texas-church-shooting-as-the-grieving-spans-generations/?hpid=hp_hp-banner-high_texasshooting-714am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.f5be0bb2fbc5

Just because some outlets haven't reported yet doesn't mean it's not true.

AND U.S. media is starting to report it now as well.  

http://nypost.com/2017/11/06/ex-friends-say-shooter-was-creepy-atheist-who-berated-religious-people/

Texas church shooter Devin Kelley was a “creepy” atheist “outcast” who never fit in and berated religious believers on social media, according to former friends and classmates.

“He was always talking about how people who believe in God we’re stupid and trying to preach his atheism,” wrote former classmate Nina Rose Nava in a Facebook post, according to the Daily Mail. “I legit just deleted him off my fb cause I couldn’t stand his post.”

“I removed him off FB for those same reasons!” replied Christopher Leo Longoria. “He was being super nagtive [sic] all the timd [sic].”

Oddly, Kelley lists teaching vacation Bible school as volunteer experience on his LinkedIn page, and his wife, Danielle Shields, was previously a teacher at a Baptist church, according to the Mail.

Another former pal described the sinking feeling he got from knowing he used to be buddies with Kelley, who on Sunday opened fire inside a Texas church, killing 26 people, including children and a pregnant woman, and injuring 20 more.

“It’s scary to know this psychopath has been in my house. I can’t believe I was friends with this guy and I literally would stay the night at his place when we were kids,” the former friend wrote.

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/high-school-classmates-say-texas-church-shooter-preached-atheism-online/article/2639727

 

High school classmates of Devin Patrick Kelley, the suspect in Sunday's mass shooting in Sutherland Springs, Texas, described the 26-year-old man as a depressed atheist who railed against God online.

"He was the first atheist I met. He went Air Force after high school, got discharged but I don't know why," Patrick Boyce, who attended New Braunfels High School with Kelley, and others told the Daily Mail.

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"I was just shocked [to hear the news]. Still haven’t quite processed how he could have done that," Boyce added. "He had a kid or two, fairly normal, but kinda quiet and lately seemed depressed."

Another former schoolmate, Nina Rose Nava, said she had just deleted the 26-year-old man as a friend on Facebook because of his posts.

"I legit just deleted him off my fb cause I couldn't stand his post," Nava wrote. "He was always talking about how people who believe in God we're stupid and trying to preach his atheism."

Christopher Leo Longoria responded to Nava and said he "removed him off FB for those same reasons."

"He was weird but never that damn weird, always posting his atheist sh** like Nina wrote, but damn he always posted pics of him and his baby — crazy," Michael Goff wrote.

Kelley was married to Danielle Shields, who had previously served as a Sunday school teacher at the First Baptist Church, where Kelley is believed to have carried out the shooting, Daily Mail reported.

 

 

 

Is that enough sources for you?

lol

 

[Padme]

 

It is the investigators!!! Not a matter of "some outlets". Investigators are saying neither race nor religion motivation!!!! 

 

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, Dazey said:

It's always easier to get your report out early when you make shit up all the time like the Daily Mail.

Hey, Glenn McGrath has just signed on with Sportsmail for the Ashes.

[SoulMonster]

Regarding the atheism/theism thingy. I don't think either alone can result in violence. Believing in gods (being a theist) doesn't on its own inspire violence. Because just believing in gods itself doesn't in any way tell you that you have to kill some. Similarly, not believing in gods also doesn't alone create violence. Because having an absence of faith isn't in itself a message that you should kill someone. It is the associated rules, the doctrines, the connected belief systems, that MAY be a problem. Like Jihadists following a warped muslim religion where they should kill infidels. It is not the belief in Allah itself that tells them so, but the doctrine in that particular version of Islam. Likewise, not having a belief in gods does not tell you to do anything, really.

Then it happens that many theistic religions do have an intrinsic animosity towards followers of other religions (which is a great trick to become popular), and this MAY result in religious wars. And yes, together with the mindset that no gods exist, may come an antagonistic view towards religion. But there are no atheistic religions that tell their followers to kill or attack anyone, because atheistic religions are few and don't typically have that group mentality.

As someone else said, both theists and atheists can be fucked, and they can do bad things regardless of whether they believe in gods or not. But in my opinion, certain theisms can push people over the edge, and became one factor in a multi-factorial explanation why some people commit mass murders. I don't want to add too much blame on religion in this, the main component is usually mental issues (besides irrational faith ;)). 

You can try to resolve all these various factors that turn people into mass murderers, like societal, mental, religious, etc, and we should do everything we can, but the far easiest and quickest way to at least lower the amounts of deaths is through reducing the means, i.e. making guns less accessible. The one doesn't negate the other, and neither is perfect (to counter the argument that gun control is pointless if it doesn't completely eradicate gun violence), but we know it works.

 

[Dazey]

3 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

Bro, the guy was an atheist...and an "extreme" one at that.  He preached about atheism online and hated religious people.   Not sure what's so hard to understand about that.   Read the articles from the sources I posted.  

Sorry but the thought of an "Extreme" Atheist just makes me laugh.

"I don't just not believe in gods. I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REEEEEEAAAAALLLLLY don't believe in gods!"

[DieselDaisy]

Why have you idiots turned this thread into yet another anti-religious tirade? It shouldn't be news to you that the twenty-six people lying dead were churchgoers. 

[Lio]

6 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Sorry but the thought of an "Extreme" Atheist just makes me laugh.

"I don't just not believe in gods. I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REEEEEEAAAAALLLLLY don't believe in gods!"

So much this. Today, I learned that there is such a thing as extreme atheists. Of course, it had to be in America. Atheist preachers

It seems like something religious nutters would make up. I'm sure there have been more atheist killers before today.

Papers here still haven't caught up with this new extremism, they're saying the guy had a problem with his mother in law and a history of beating up wife and kid.

[soon]

People bathing in their ignorance like a pig in filth.  I'll reference the atheist islamophobes most common argument on this site:

Why is it so hard to understand a Muslim atheist would be driven by their stupid beliefs to do wrong?

(note, I never said atheism is the motive.  Nor did I derail this into a debate about this.  but now that your enlightened views have seen fit to shit all over this thread, here you go)

[janrichmond]

Children were killed, Mums, Dads and Grandparents. I don't care if the killer was religious or not, I think he chose a place where he could kill as many innocents as he could. If there were another place that held as many people at the same time he may have shot there instead. I'm glad he's dead.

[Padme]

Not even Fox News is talking about that atheism bullshit. This is about a crazy motherfucker who hated his family and the church they attended. Someone who should  have never been a gun owner.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06/texas-church-shooter-reportedly-fractured-stepsons-skull-on-purpose.html

 

[Ace Nova]

2 hours ago, Dazey said:

Sorry but the thought of an "Extreme" Atheist just makes me laugh.

"I don't just not believe in gods. I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REEEEEEAAAAALLLLLY don't believe in gods!"

Same thing could be said about an "extreme" religious radical.  "I just don't believe in God, I really really really believe in God".

I guess they're calling him a "militant atheist"....if that makes you feel better. 

 

[Ace Nova]

15 minutes ago, Padme said:

Not even Fox News is talking about that atheism bullshit. This is about a crazy motherfucker who hated his family and the church they attended. Someone who should  have never been a gun owner.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06/texas-church-shooter-reportedly-fractured-stepsons-skull-on-purpose.html

 

The domestic violence situation happened before the shooting.  His wife and mother in law weren't even at the church.  It's obvious he targeted the church because he's a militant atheist and despises religious people.   

[soon]

Im not speaking about the incident or motive.  But whoa.  I just learned that atheists find the idea of extremist atheism to be funny.  The empty need to laugh at others for holding different views is so enthralling to you that you will continue to do it - debasing yourselves irreversibly - just to continue in your contrived belly laughs.  Before the bodies are even cold.

Shame on you all for using this incident towards your petty, selfish ends.

But mostly you've shamed yourselves by voluntarily showcasing your desperate arrogance.

Edited November 6, 2017 by soon

[Joeypeeps]

Another real "tough guy" who blows 30 people away, then offs himself. Burn in hell, you evil son of a bitch. Better get your sunblock ready, cuz it's gonna get real fukin' hot where you're going🖕🏼

[gunsguy]

We have a serious mental health issue going on in the US of A.  That can be the only explanation behind these things.  What else could it be?

Even a decorated soldier (not saying its because he was in military) comes home and lacks much on his return.  They are left to their own devices.  If they can't deal with the boys and girls that fight for us and the horrors of war on them how can we expect any of them to deal with the regular Joe who slips through the cracks?

Some would say its guns, while yes its true that a lot of mass murder is by the gun the person has to get there... to use it... With hundreds of millions of guns in North America it would seem that the vast majority of gun owners never use them to cause harm to another.  There is something else at play here.

I grew up with guns in my home, I have also shot many styles of guns and have direct access to guns.  I know that a gun is a tool, I respect it and its power and as I write this would never use it to harm another soul.  Does my neighbor hold the same value?  I have no idea... 

IMHO mental illness is at play.  There is simply no other explanation that fits.  Mental illness that either is life long or someone having a bad time(day week year) The trouble is that most go undetected, why?  Most don't realize they have a problem and their reality seems real to them and others struggle to know what to do should they suspect something is wrong.  How can you say uncle Joe is messed up in the head but not capable of doing anything like this?  We don't know, can't know and until he does something (if he does) there is not much that can be done to him or for him.

I hold zero answers here, I wish I did.  For those against guns (which I am not one of) what would you propose that would help prevent and/or reduce the casualties in the USA?  As people we may not have the answers but I think we can agree we really need to do better.

I am of the mind that even people I dislike, hate even... I could never use a weapon upon them, life is precious, beautiful and every life is important regardless of a beef or a point of view.

33 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

The domestic violence situation happened before the shooting.  His wife and mother in law weren't even at the church.  It's obvious he targeted the church because he's a militant atheist and despises religious people.   

He killed his gramma in law at the church.... I thin khe was hoping the other 2 were there...