Differences between bands ... lack of professionalism and other issues

[Hollywood Gunner]

some bands have to be professional to sell tickets. some dont 

[WhazUp]

13 minutes ago, Hollywood Gunner said:

some bands have to be professional to sell tickets. some dont 

If anything, GNR is being more professional than they ever have been

[DieselDaisy]

Rose also likes to run his bands like Area 51, in a sort of closed-off Orwellian vacuum: no (uncensored) interviews; no band photos; no albums and things to buy (things fans actually want that is and not merely beach towels); no music videos; a fan club which seems as dysfunctional and pecuniary-minded as the actual band, etc. Consequentially the whole thing becomes a magnet for conspiracy theories and (internet) fan speculation - and criticism.

In the days of Nugnr I used to believe it was mismanagement and errors, misjudgments, ill-advice and 'external' circumstances, but I've come to realise that that is just how Rose likes it. It seemed to be evident in the very core of Nugnr itself as sometimes the bandmembers seemed as clueless as the fans. ''Deliberate chaos'' you may call it.

Edited February 3, 2018 by DieselDaisy

[RJ88]

They practically have zero fan interaction. There's really no connection to their fans, like many other bands have done, especially older ones that have embraced it  (ie: social media) 

No interviews, no new album don't help...this band just doesn't seem to really want to connect with their fans 

I'll always be a fan, but I just find it odd how they really don't try to connect with the fans more

NIN have embraced it, Metallica, so have Pearl Jam and many others 

 

I definitely wouldn't say they aren't professional though, at least since they have reunited

Edited February 3, 2018 by RJ88

[GnR Chris]

Pearl Jam is a boring, by-the-numbers, safe rock-and-roll band. Vedder is the last frontman standing from the grunge era, and by far the worst. 

So they flood the market with high-quality live records. I think Metallica does the same with their shows, available for download for the fans who attended. Cool. I dig it. 

There are plenty of things I wish for more of from GNR. Namely a new record. I want new music badly because they're my favorite band. 

Live? They play for three hours. Omitting some of their greatest hits to play more "deep" cuts? Nah. There's plenty in there for all to enjoy. It isn't like the catalog is THAT vast.

Edited February 3, 2018 by GnR Chris

[WhazUp]

8 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

Pearl Jam is a boring, by-the-numbers, safe rock-and-roll band. Vedder is the last frontman standing from the grunge era, and by the far the worst. 

I personally consider Pearl Jam to be one of the better 90's bands, and certainly Vedder as a frontman the best of the Big 4 IMO.  I don't think they are boring or by-the-numbers at all. 

[GnR Chris]

As an aside, I enjoy the mystery. I like that Axl by and large keeps himself off social media. I like that he isn't out there whoring for the press at every turn. And I feel like when there is truly some news, we'll know it. People are so used to the instant gratification of today's social-media-driven society, that they consider Axl anti-fan because he isn't kissing their asses. We don't need to know their every move. Respect the privacy. This is why there aren't any movie stars anymore. The aura surrounding them has disappeared.

 

Eddie Vedder spent the last two summers kissing everyone's asses in the Cubs' front office and on the Cubs' team. What a hanger-on FAKE "hometown" fanboy who used to rock White Sox hats. Like Billy Corgan said, Eddie isn't even from Chicago. He's from Evanston. haha

Edited February 3, 2018 by GnR Chris

[RONIN]

16 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Rose also likes to run his bands like Area 51, in a sort of closed-off Orwellian vacuum: no (uncensored) interviews; no band photos; no albums and things to buy (things fans actually want that is and not merely beach towels); no music videos; a fan club which seems as dysfunctional and pecuniary-minded as the actual band, etc. Consequentially the whole thing becomes a magnet for conspiracy theories and (internet) fan speculation - and criticism.

In the days of Nugnr I used to believe it was mismanagement and errors, misjudgments, ill-advice and 'external' circumstances, but I've come to realise that that is just how Rose likes it. It seemed to be evident in the very core of Nugnr itself as sometimes the bandmembers seemed as clueless as the fans. ''Deliberate chaos'' you may call it.

Nailed it. He thrives on chaos. Following a scripted plan and executing on tasks as any normal person would do is completely alien to him I imagine. I know people like this. Even the simplest of tasks become monumental undertakings because they live their life on an entirely different clock/wavelength.

What they are essentially unable to do is follow a schedule and meet deadlines. Such people need to block out every hour of their day with tasks to stay on track. More effective time management basically. Axl needed a good project manager and someone to kick his ass into gear each and every day so that shit would get accomplished. In the old days, that was Niven. Whatever has changed him in 2016, I bet it probably has to do with someone stepping in and keeping him on track by managing his days and making sure that his affairs are in order (like what General Kelly is attempting to do with Trump).

I think during the Illusion days, Axl (though a control freak/OCD perfectionist) actually wanted to release stuff - they put out essentially 4 albums worth of material with the Illusions + a punk covers album. Then you had the Illusion tour documentary that was somewhere in the pipeline awaiting release. Wasn't there even a mooted GnR fan club in the works? Something happened to him between '94-95 that just broke the guy mentally. 

When it comes to NuGnr, I think the answer is pretty simple. I don't think Axl truly wanted to release anything with those lineups. I don't think he ever really believed they were legitimate in his mind (though he tried to convince himself of that in interviews). When you actually look back at that era - there's nary an official video/band photo/band interviews. What do we really have from that time? The dreadful live dvd in vegas, Chinese Democracy, and the unreleased Better video? Am I missing anything? Did he ever do any mainstream publicity on tv with Nu Guns aside from the 2002 MTV VMA's? Actions speak louder than words. He didn't have the confidence to follow through on rebranding GnR with his b-listers. In time, that era will be forgotten almost entirely. No matter how many times Axl insists on playing Chinese songs live w/ Slash and Duff, the CD era will just be a footnote in GnR history - a 20 year plunge into darkness for the band.

Edited February 4, 2018 by RONIN

[RONIN]

2 hours ago, RJ88 said:

They practically have zero fan interaction. There's really no connection to their fans, like many other bands have done, especially older ones that have embraced it  (ie: social media) 

No interviews, no new album don't help...this band just doesn't seem to really want to connect with their fans 

I'll always be a fan, but I just find it odd how they really don't try to connect with the fans more

NIN have embraced it, Metallica, so have Pearl Jam and many others 

 

I definitely wouldn't say they aren't professional though, at least since they have reunited

Well said. The fan service for this band is abysmal. 

I'd argue that contributed in large measure to the backlash that hit them in the early to mid 90's and ultimately ended the band. They alienated their fans big time. And bands like Metallica filled the GnR vacuum and absorbed a lot of their former fans. 

It goes back to old school celebrity PR when mystique and keeping your fans/public at arms length was a viable marketing strategy. Think of how few interviews some of the big movie stars of the 80's/90's used to give like Stallone and Schwarzenegger. People were more intrigued the less exposed you were back then. But those days are over with social media. Now you're just forgotten if you don't engage your fans. Celebrities are reaching out to their fans more than ever before because there are a million different options for them now. You literally have to fight for their attention just to keep them engaged with you. 

The foundation of any successful company/organization: 

a) a good product

b) happy and engaged customers/fans

Edited February 4, 2018 by RONIN

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

12 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Nailed it. He thrives on chaos. Following a scripted plan and executing on tasks as any normal person would do is completely alien to him I imagine. I know people like this. Even the simplest of tasks become monumental undertakings because they live their life on an entirely different clock/wavelength.

What they are essentially unable to do is follow a schedule and meet deadlines. Such people need to block out every hour of their day with tasks to stay on track. More effective time management basically. Axl needed a good project manager and someone to kick his ass into gear each and every day so that shit would get accomplished. In the old days, that was Niven. Whatever has changed him in 2016, I bet it probably has to do with someone stepping in and keeping him on track by managing his days and making sure that his affairs are in order (like what General Kelly is attempting to do with Trump).

I cannot for the life of me remember where I read it, but there is most definitely an interview where Axl pretty much admits/alludes to this. I recall him even mentioning the word chaos.  He was referring to it in a negative sense (re: his mental health), in that it's a vicious cycle he would get himself into whereby chaos or negativity? or maybe the word was 'drama' was his comfort zone - he didn't feel good about it - but he'd been conditioned to feel like that atmosphere was the only one he could survive in: he knew it, understood it.  And if it (chaos/negativity) wasn't there, he'd go about looking for it, even if subconsciously.  In the interview, this was something he said he was trying to overcome. Maybe @Blackstar knows about this?  

[Guitto]

While people still want to pay high ticket prices to go on the shows, and feel happy to listen songs from 30 years, GNR/Axl will not change it. They'll do it over and over again, and if the money still roll to their accounts, fuck off! It seems they just dont care. Like Kirk from Metallica said:

"In a new interview with the LA Times, Kirk Hammett spoke about Guns N’ Roses’ reunion tour. “Unfortunately, they’ve turned into somewhat of a nostalgia act, which to me is kind of sad,” Hammett said. As for the importance of writing new material, James Hetfield shared, “I don’t want to think we’re trying to stay young by writing new stuff, but it makes us feel relevant. It makes us feel like we’re still progressing.” - http://loudwire.com/metallica-kirk-hammett-guns-n-roses-turned-into-somewhat-of-nostalgia-act/

Yes, it is sad for me as a fan

Edited February 4, 2018 by Guitto

[Blackstar]

3 hours ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

I cannot for the life of me remember where I read it, but there is most definitely an interview where Axl pretty much admits/alludes to this. I recall him even mentioning the word chaos.  He was referring to it in a negative sense (re: his mental health), in that it's a vicious cycle he would get himself into whereby chaos or negativity? or maybe the word was 'drama' was his comfort zone - he didn't feel good about it - but he'd been conditioned to feel like that atmosphere was the only one he could survive in: he knew it, understood it.  And if it (chaos/negativity) wasn't there, he'd go about looking for it, even if subconsciously.  In the interview, this was something he said he was trying to overcome. Maybe @Blackstar knows about this?  

This?

MUSICIAN: Some people mess up their personal lives in order to keep the music coming.
AXL: I think everybody's different. A lot of people, myself included, will choose to stay in certain situations whether you like them or not because they are what you know. That's what you're used to. You can even leave one set of conditions and move into another and it's a whole other mess, but there's some of the same essence in that mess, the same type of chaos. I think that a lot of people hold onto these things because it's pretty natural to have fears of moving beyond something. Like feeling you need to keep a certain anger in your life because that's how you defend yourself and deal with the world, rather than learning how to let it go. You hold onto certain fears or frustrations because it's so much a part of you that you don't know what you'd be without it. The truth is that you'd be better, but try convincing your unconscious mind of that.

http://www.a-4-d.com/t2649-1992-06-dd-musician-shadow-boxing-with-axl-rose#10305

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

Yep, that's it @Blackstar.  Thank you!  Where would we be without your encyclopaedic knowledge of all things GNR? lol  

I remembered this quote because of all the articles and interviews I've read of Axl, this one to me, seemed to best sum up his complex psychology, as well as reveal that he is indeed self-aware (contrary to what some believe).  He knows his shortcomings; he just doesn't know what to do about them.  Yes, he should have done this and he should have done that, but knowing and doing are two different things.  This is something most ordinary folk have to grapple with from time to time, but for Axl, with his background and mentality, and sudden rise to permanent fame, it must have made life even more difficult.  It doesn't excuse some his behaviours and decisions over the years, but it goes some way in helping us understand him better.

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[EvanG]

 

12 minutes ago, tremolo said:

 Pearl Jam, too damn safe and bland for my taste. Stadium rock for chicks.

Totally, playing a different setlist each night is too damn safe, I agree. Also, if Pearl Jam is stadium rock, then GnR is hip hop?

Edited February 5, 2018 by EvanG

[auad]

3 minutes ago, EvanG said:

 

Totally, playing a different setlist each night is too damn safe, I agree. Also, if Pearl Jam is stadium rock, then GnR is hip hop?

That's it partner.
PJ ... safe? no way! The band presents an unpredictable and visceral show on every night that is proposed. They do not repeat setlists and always surprise fans by playing obscurity, covers.

Safe is playing the same setlist, night after night, and having the latest release ten years ago...

[default_]

I couldnt careless for fan interation, interviews or social media, the only thing that matters is music and this is the only thing that buggers me about them.

If they ever release a new album I wouldnt mind if the only thing they do to "promote" it is a 10 second video saying "hey, its there go on and get it, tour starts next month" Thats all I really need, music.

I dont need to be "friends" with the artist, I dont need to have them in my life 24/7, I just need them doing their art. Guns N' Roses isnt doing neither.

Edited February 5, 2018 by default_

[auad]

9 minutes ago, default_ said:

I couldnt careless for fan interation, interviews or social media, the only thing that matters is music and this is the only thing that buggers me about them.

If they ever release a new album I wouldnt mind if the only thing they do to "promote" it is a 10 second video saying "hey, its there go on and get it, tour starts next month" Thats all I really need, music.

I dont need to be "friends" with the artist, I dont need to have them in my life 24/7, I just need them doing their art. Guns N' Roses isnt doing neither.

I agree.

the only thing that matters they don't do. 

currently GNR is just an itinerant circus.

[EvanG]

3 hours ago, tremolo said:

I don’t understand why a stranger’s opinion makes your bumbum hurt so much.

My bumbum has been hurting ever since you put your... ok, let's not go there.

Anyway, just saying your opinion sucks because nothing about that band, whether it's their music or whatever, would qualify as ''safe''. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by EvanG

[DeadSlash]

It's kind of a weird argument that the #1 grossing act in the country is out of tune with what people want and unprofessional.  

 

It's funny because when I see something like Kendrick Lamar having a number one song that I don't like, I think "I guess it's not for me."  I do respect your point of view though, you know in your heart that Kendrick Lamar's fans are simply wrong.    Take someone like "Bart's singing cupcake" The local band that plays Saturday night at the bar down the road.  You can request them to cover like ANY 80's rock song and they will do it!  They are professional, they are mature, they car about their fans.  Unlike Kendrick Lamar who has repeatedly denied my request to sing "The Final Countdown" live.

 

[Sydney Fan]

On ‎4‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 11:19 AM, Guitto said:

While people still want to pay high ticket prices to go on the shows, and feel happy to listen songs from 30 years, GNR/Axl will not change it. They'll do it over and over again, and if the money still roll to their accounts, fuck off! It seems they just dont care. Like Kirk from Metallica said:

"In a new interview with the LA Times, Kirk Hammett spoke about Guns N’ Roses’ reunion tour. “Unfortunately, they’ve turned into somewhat of a nostalgia act, which to me is kind of sad,” Hammett said. As for the importance of writing new material, James Hetfield shared, “I don’t want to think we’re trying to stay young by writing new stuff, but it makes us feel relevant. It makes us feel like we’re still progressing.” - http://loudwire.com/metallica-kirk-hammett-guns-n-roses-turned-into-somewhat-of-nostalgia-act/

Yes, it is sad for me as a fan

Kirk sounding like a tranny everytime he speaks, has every right to say that but the GNR tour was away of getting the band  to know each other again after not verballing speaking after 25 years. Besides it took metallica literally nearly 10 years to release hardwired as death magnetic came out in 2008!, if they like releasing new music how does it take them 10 years to release another album?. Then again I would like GNR to do a movie like metallicas some kind of monster.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Sydney Fan

[EvanG]

11 hours ago, tremolo said:

He has made some great music, but it just doesn’t tickle me on all the right places.

That's fair, each to their own, right? But I don't get why that makes them ''safe''. There are many very commercial sounding bands that I would call ''safe'' but Pearl Jam isn't one of them.

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, tremolo said:

Maybe I haven’t paid enough attention? I don’t know how to explain it, I find their music lacks edge and in general is kinda generic.

But to give it some context, from that era I really like stuff like Sonic Youth, Tad, early and late Nirvana, My Bloody Valentine...

Maybe too easy to listen to?

Feel free to recommend some of their stuff to give them another chance.

I don't know, maybe they are not your band? That's fine. I just don't find them necessarily ''safe'' or too easy to listen to. I think Nirvana is more catchy than Pearl Jam, for example. Which is nothing wrong with, of course. Especially on their second album they turned to a more garage rock and noisy sound and later on in the 90s they started experimenting a bit more. Most people prefer their first record Ten, but if you like the type of bands you mentioned you'd probably prefer a record like Vs., just like me.

[Guitto]

9 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

Kirk sounding like a tranny everytime he speaks, has every right to say that but the GNR tour was away of getting the band  to know each other again after not verballing speaking after 25 years. Besides it took metallica literally nearly 10 years to release hardwired as death magnetic came out in 2008!, if they like releasing new music how does it take them 10 years to release another album?. Then again I would like GNR to do a movie like metallicas some kind of monster.

Never compare, Metallica is a LOT MORE productive than GNR:

 

 

Plus, aside from the Napster thing, they are a lot better to their fans than GNR will ever be. So, Kirk was right. Of course, circumstances for it may be different to each other, but again, Kirk was right on what he say about GNR being "just a nostalgic act".

[auad]

5 minutes ago, Guitto said:

Never compare, Metallica is a LOT MORE productive than GNR:

 

 

Plus, aside from the Napster thing, they are a lot better to their fans than GNR will ever be. So, Kirk was right. Of course, circumstances for it may be different to each other, but again, Kirk was right on what he say about GNR being "just a nostalgic act".

It's true, there's no way to compare.
not to mention the fact that Metallica is, in fact, a band. GNR no.

[Powderfinger]

12 hours ago, tremolo said:

Maybe I haven’t paid enough attention? I don’t know how to explain it, I find their music lacks edge and in general is kinda generic.

But to give it some context, from that era I really like stuff like Sonic Youth, Tad, early and late Nirvana, My Bloody Valentine...

Maybe too easy to listen to?

Feel free to recommend some of their stuff to give them another chance.

Ok, I’m not the biggest PJ fan, I bowed out after 3 albums bit your off yer tits if you think they have no edge in their songs. 

You are listening but not hearing..... You mentioned earlier about how you liked the “tortured artist”, go listen to any of the 1st 3 (I can’t attest to the rest) albums and you’ll likely find your tortured artist. Listen to Spin the black circle for edge, or porch, and lots more. Alive has one of the best guitar solos ever caught on tape. They took on Ticketbastard in the early 90s, they spoke out on pro life and gay issues. More than of them was alcoholic. Two of the members were previously in a band who’s lead singer od’d. What the fuck else would you like them to have done to be “edgy”. You don’t live life and not have it influence your music in some way. 

Like i said I’m not a big fan, but you can’t say they are safe. 

PS) Bollocks to Tortured artists, they are over rated.... 

 

Edited February 7, 2018 by Powderfinger