The Joker

[Destiny]

Finally saw it sunday, without ANY prior knowledge of what the critics or public were saying.

Very good. Wanted to catch it again today but got sidetracked...

Taxi Driver popped into my head when he was pointing his new gun around his apartment, the set and props department did well with the era they were going for in the movie. I couldn't stop myself from saying "Oh No" out loud when he realized it was all in his head (about him and his neighbor down the hall). Phoenix was great and there is one scene in the beginning when he is getting chewed out by his boss and his face contorts to an eerie, dark smile that gave me chills.

Director said there is no plan for a second movie so that's good. It wasn't until towards the end I remembered this was a movie based on a comic book villain and not a real person. A great dark, gritty movie and a nice departure from the shiny MCU movies of these past years.

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

On 10/20/2019 at 3:14 PM, oldnews said:

to rate the 3 most recent Joker's

 

Heath Ledger's Joker = Kurt Cobain

Joaquin Phoenix's Joker = Dave Grohl

Jared Leto's Joker = Krist Novoselic

So Phoenix is the best one? 

[-W.A.R-]

Ah man Krist deserves more respect than that.

[DieselDaisy]

I finally watched this. It is a hard watch. A good film, but a hard watch. Rather like King of Comedy/Taxi Driver with a touch of Unbreakable (and Ledger's Joker) thrown in. It tries to recall those 1970s ''New Hollywood'' urban New York films, not just thematically but aesthetically - Scorsese, et al. It has that ''audience subversiveness'' those films have where you are rather routing for the psychopath/antihero. The ''unreliable narrator'' was also an interesting plot device pertaining to the love interest.

I do think it should have ended with him on the car doing his little dance. It seems it has one too many endings. 

It highlighted this interesting aspect in Bruce Wayne/Batman, in that Batman is a millionaire, son of a (here, quite horrible) hoary old plutocrat, and certainly not representative of the downtrodden in the way the Joker is. This is evident in the comic material and maybe even the Bale films (the idea of Batman being bad is explored) but hasn't been made as evident as is in this film. (It is fair enough when Batman is grabbing rapists and child murderers I suppose, but when he, the millionaire, is cornering people for stealing a loaf of bread!).  

 

[moreblack]

12 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

It highlighted this interesting aspect in Bruce Wayne/Batman, in that Batman is a millionaire, son of a (here, quite horrible) hoary old plutocrat, and certainly not representative of the downtrodden in the way the Joker is. This is evident in the comic material and maybe even the Bale films (the idea of Batman being bad is explored) but hasn't been made as evident as is in this film. (It is fair enough when Batman is grabbing rapists and child murderers I suppose, but when he, the millionaire, is cornering people for stealing a loaf of bread!).

Even in the Year One comic they treat him as a lunatic beating up poor lowlife thugs and the police go after him pretty hard. It takes him a good while to earn Gordon's trust. I think without Gordon being on board, Batman would be shot on sight by police.

[Lies They Tell]

On 31.10.2019 at 8:56 PM, -W.A.R- said:

Ah man Krist deserves more respect than that.

That's what they say about Jared Leto's Joker too!

A pretty good comparison in general. Some prefer Phoenix over Ledger, just like some prefer Grohl over Cobain. Still Cobain and Ledger's Joker will probably always remain more iconic than Grohl and Phoenix's Joker. One reason for that is cause they both died young.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Lies They Tell

[DieselDaisy]

I know they say it's a ''stand alone'' but the Bruce Wayne scenes lead me to believe there will be a sequel or a quasi-sequel set in same universe. It would be a Batman darker - more neurotic and subversive - than even Nolan's trilogy which itself was very dark!

[Len Cnut]

20 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I finally watched this. It is a hard watch. A good film, but a hard watch. Rather like King of Comedy/Taxi Driver with a touch of Unbreakable (and Ledger's Joker) thrown in. It tries to recall those 1970s ''New Hollywood'' urban New York films, not just thematically but aesthetically - Scorsese, et al. It has that ''audience subversiveness'' those films have where you are rather routing for the psychopath/antihero.

I wish I'd watched it now.

[Dazey]

7 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I wish I'd watched it now.

How was Midway?

[Len Cnut]

39 minutes ago, Dazey said:

How was Midway?

Only got mid way, had to leave.  it was unfolding alright, nothing worth selling your nan over.

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

I wish I'd watched it now.

Whereas I did go to the cinema haha (coughs)? 

Maybe it is a bit of a ''Scorsese recycling job'' and gets lost a bit in psycho-philosophy, but it is a bold and subversive film. I'd give it 4/5. I think it is your type of thing - the super hero aspect is of little consequence really. If you want to regard it as a superhero film, it is certainly the best one since the second Nolan.  

[Len Cnut]

14 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Whereas I did go to the cinema haha (coughs)? 

Maybe it is a bit of a ''Scorsese recycling job'' and gets lost a bit in psycho-philosophy, but it is a bold and subversive film. I'd give it 4/5. I think it is your type of thing - the super hero aspect is of little consequence really. If you want to regard it as a superhero film, it is certainly the best one since the second Nolan.  

Watch Sorry We Missed You, you cunt   You're such a fuckin' big time Hollywood movie whore under all the chatter, aren't you?  What with Brexit and all that we should be supporting British Cinema/directors like Ken Loach.  But nooooo, Mr Test Match Whites over here wants to watch The fuckin' Joker!  its even set in Newcastle, should be right up your alley.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Len Cnut

[DieselDaisy]

4 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Watch Sorry We Missed You, you cunt   You're such a fuckin' big time Hollywood movie whore under all the chatter, aren't you?  What with Brexit and all that we should be supporting British Cinema/directors like Ken Loach.  But nooooo, Mr Test Match Whites over here wants to watch The fuckin' Joker!  its even set in Newcastle, should be right up your alley.

''Hollywood movie whore''? Recently I have been exploring Czech cinema!

Went off Loach when he made some pro-IRA historic potboiler. 

[Len Cnut]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

''Hollywood movie whore''? Recently I have been exploring Czech cinema!

Went off Loach when he made some pro-IRA historic potboiler. 

Just watch the fuckin' film, alright?   And that goes for all you other British cunts reading this!  

[DieselDaisy]

5 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Just watch the fuckin' film, alright?   And that goes for all you other British cunts reading this!  

Does it have biceps, uzis and one-liners delivered in an Austrian accent? If not, you'll struggle to convince Dazey. Just lie to him and convince him it is a sequel to Commando.

Loach reminds me of the great Japanese filmmaker, Kenji Mizoguchi. 

[Dazey]

19 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Does it have biceps, uzis and one-liners delivered in an Austrian accent? If not, you'll struggle to convince Dazey. Just lie to him and convince him it is a sequel to Commando.

What I wouldn't give for a sequel to Commando. Surely one of the absolute best films ever made!

[Len Cnut]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Does it have biceps, uzis and one-liners delivered in an Austrian accent? If not, you'll struggle to convince Dazey. Just lie to him and convince him it is a sequel to Commando.

He likes Kes and Kind Hearts and Coronets, he just enjoys making himself out an ignorant pleb  

[DieselDaisy]

5 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

He likes Kes and Kind Hearts and Coronets, he just enjoys making himself out an ignorant pleb  

Further on Ken Loach, Loach is basically Jeremy Corbyn if Jeremy Corbyn made films. Belonged to loads of Marxoid CNDish beardo groupings in the 1970s. Makes pro-IRA films - basically questions British foreign policy in toto, always supporting Britain's enemies. Supports Palestine. Anti-Israel - antisemite accusations. Anti-monarchist (turned down OBE). Eurosceptic (he belonged to Respect).

The bugger is literally Jeremy Corbyn haha.

Edited November 13, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[DieselDaisy]

6 hours ago, Dazey said:

What I wouldn't give for a sequel to Commando. Surely one of the absolute best films ever made!

I cannot think of a film that epitomises the 1980s more. Simply a vision of the 1980s,

The look of a man who wants to blow coke off a blond bimbo's breasts. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[soon]

I should really check out a Ken Loach film.

[DieselDaisy]

3 minutes ago, soon said:

I should really check out a Ken Loach film.

They are fairly grimy but there is no doubting his gifts at handling social issues such as poverty and repressive (''Kafkaesque'') state bureaucracy. Although ''made for tv'', Cathy Come Home (1966) is where it all began for him.

[Dazey]

33 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I cannot think of a film that epitomises the 1980s more. Simply a vision of the 1980s,

The look of a man who wants to blow coke off a blond bimbo's breasts. 

You say that as though it's a bad thing.  

[soon]

22 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

They are fairly grimy but there is no doubting his gifts at handling social issues such as poverty and repressive (''Kafkaesque'') state bureaucracy. Although ''made for tv'', Cathy Come Home (1966) is where it all began for him.

Thanks, I'll start with that one. I just looked it up and Cathy is quite alluring

[DieselDaisy]

17 minutes ago, soon said:

Thanks, I'll start with that one. I just looked it up and Cathy is quite alluring

She was poised for big things, Carol White. She went to Hollywood and made some semi-big films including a film with Dean Martin as I recall, however booze and drugs destroyed her career.

[Len Cnut]

Quote

Belonged to loads of Marxoid CNDish beardo groupings in the 1970s

Not the worst thing in the world.

Quote

basically questions British foreign policy in toto

Again, not the worst thing a filmmaker could do.  I mean everyone finds at least some portion of it questionable, the key I suppose in such things is balance.

Quote

always supporting Britain's enemies

I don't know another filmmaker than champions its people more though.  Britains that is.

Quote

Anti-monarchist (turned down OBE). Eurosceptic (he belonged to Respect).

Again, not necessarily bad things.

As you know I'm not a big one for politics, I do think the people deserve a voice though and it is the job of artists, or at least some of them, to try to be that voice.  There is the theory though that 'social realism' in cinema is a very middle class concern.  They hate themselves when they watch it and hate themselves even more when they don't watch it.  I'm not sure if I can afford to be quite that cynical though.