username Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 36 minutes ago, Dazey said: Not all of us want to be out of the EU. Compromise: England leaves, Europe keeps Scotland and Northern Ireland. (I'm not sure what Wales wants) Everybody wins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, username said: Compromise: England leaves, Europe keeps Scotland and Northern Ireland. (I'm not sure what Wales wants) Everybody wins. I’m in England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Dazey said: I’m in England. I'd move to Scotland if I were you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 The PVV seem to have produced status quo. 13% ish. 4 seats. They haven't dropped at least but haven't gained either. S&D (Dutch Labour Party) have been utterly trounced in the Netherlands. Basically the whole thing is status quo 2014, ALDE and EPP doing well. 1 minute ago, username said: Compromise: England leaves, Europe keeps Scotland and Northern Ireland. (I'm not sure what Wales wants) Everybody wins. Wales voted Leave. What about London which overwhelmingly voted Remain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: That is fair enough but elsewhere Le Pen beat Macron and France are a more important player in the European Union than Holland. Macron is a poster boy for Europhile-centrism whereas Le Pen is Europe's most famous right-wing nationalist. This is truly an important event. The Netherlands is a very important player in the EU, believe it or not. Le Pen barely beat Macron. In a lot of countries pro-EU parties did a lot better than expected, especially considering the current political climate and all the Eurosceptism that has been (rightly so to a certain degree) growing. Now it's time to reform. Time to make it better. Time for ch-ch-ch-ch-changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 27 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I don't think you understand Britain's political culture. I suspect those who voted Labour voted Labour because they're in Labour heartlands and are ''Labour people''. In a local election maybe makes more sense to vote Labour or Tories. It doesn't make sense to vote Labour for EU Parliament if you are a die hard brexiter. And you have a Brexit Party with Farage as it leader. Those who voted Labour are remainers, if not all 99% of them are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 13 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: The PVV seem to have produced status quo. 13% ish. 4 seats. They haven't dropped at least but haven't gained either. S&D (Dutch Labour Party) have been utterly trounced in the Netherlands. PVV have lost all their seats. Just like the SP, another Eurosceptic party. FvD, newcomer and also Eurosceptic, got three seats, which is impressive for a new party, but not as good as everyone was expecting seeing as they were the big winners at the provincial elections a couple of months earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, EvanG said: PVV have lost all their seats. Just like the SP, another Eurosceptic party. FvD, newcomer and also Eurosceptic, got three seats, which is impressive for a new party, but not as good as everyone was expecting seeing as they were the big winners at the provincial elections a couple of months earlier. This shows how the Dutch parties did (right) and in what EU party they are (left). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 11 minutes ago, EvanG said: FvD, newcomer and also Eurosceptic You forgot to mention "horrible populist bunch of complete morons pretending to be intellectuals" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, EvanG said: The Netherlands is a very important player in the EU, believe it or not. Le Pen barely beat Macron. In a lot of countries pro-EU parties did a lot better than expected, especially considering the current political climate and all the Eurosceptism that has been (rightly so to a certain degree) growing. Now it's time to reform. Time to make it better. Time for ch-ch-ch-ch-changes. France puts forth 74 MEPs, the Netherlands 26. 3 minutes ago, Padme said: In a local election maybe makes more sense to vote Labour or Tories. It doesn't make sense to vote Labour for EU Parliament if you are a die hard brexiter. And you have a Brexit Party with Farage as it leader. Those who voted Labour are remainers, if not all 99% of them are. This is simply not true and the area I live in (60% Leave) is good evidence to that fact. Not everything is defined by ''Brexit'' believe it or not and the tribalism of Labour and Conservatives runs very deep. I for instance live in a Labour heartland, and if they stuck a Labour shirt on a donkey the people would vote for it. The idea of voting for a party other than Labour is completely alien here. Our MP (not MEP but for sake of argument) is a full on hard-left/mining background/trade unionism Euro-hating Bennite, so for the people here there is no contradiction in being Brexiteers and voting Labour. In British politics it is easy enough to square your disagreement with the party leader with the fact you are voting for your MP (or MEP in this instance). It is often better to view the Tories and Labour as coalitions of antagonistic groups. The Tories, in civil war mode over Europe, are currently an even better example of that than Labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, username said: This shows how the Dutch parties did (right) and in what EU party they are (left). Thanks, so like I said... the three biggest parties here are pro-EU with a total of 14 seats. The Eurosceptic parties PVV and the SP lost in total 6 and have no seats anymore. P.S. What the hell is ''JEZUS LEEFT''? I didn't even know about that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Yes Wilders has been trounced but FvD have 10.9%. Wilders is one of Europe's most famous Eurosceptics based probably on the fact that he resembles a Bond villain. D66 which is ALDE have took a pounding. CDA, your EPP, have dropped a bit but haven't suffered as badly as other EPPs elsewhere. Your Labour are the overwhelming winners at 18%, S&D (I was looking at the wrong thing earlier). The Dutch seem to have dumped their EPP votes onto their S&D which is broadly what has happened elsewhere, except ALDE and the Eurosceptics have done generally better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Pro-EU parties have won more seats than Eurosceptic parties here and I wasn't expecting that, so I'm somewhat optimistic. Wilders is most famous because he hates Islam and has been under protection 24/7 since van Gogh died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Yes Wilders has been trounced but FvD have 10.9%. Wilders is one of Europe's most famous Eurosceptics based probably on the fact that he resembles a Bond villain. He is more famous for being a right-wing nutjob who hates muslims. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Dazey said: I’m in England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 The main winner in Germany's is the Greens who have shot up into second place from 11 seats (10%) to 20 (20%) largely at the expense of the SPD and to a lesser extent Merkel. The Germans have become smelly hippies and Vegans. If you are inclined to green politics this is a huge success for you, Europe in toto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Just now, DieselDaisy said: The main winner in Germany's is the Greens who have shot up into second place from 11 seats (10%) to 20 (20%) largely at the expense of the SPD and to a lesser extent Merkel. The Germans have become smelly hippies and Vegans. If you are inclined to green politics this is a huge success for you, Europe in toto. Everytime you say in toto i start to sing ‘we’re off to see the wizaaardd’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLegend Posted May 27, 2019 Author Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said: - Tommy Robinson lost his £5,000 deposit haha! - Le Pen's National Rally (24%) Macron (22.5%) is truly seismic. How can anyone claim '' nothing really changed''? La Pen is down 2 percent of the vote and in seat total compared to last time. As for Macron, it's pretty clear his base were people who voted for other parties prior to his rise. His party wasn't there last time. With this being pr and not a head to head 2v2 people didn't have to vote for Macron, just because they didn't like La Pen. Semsic shift is a huge stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 26 minutes ago, EvanG said: P.S. What the hell is ''JEZUS LEEFT''? I didn't even know about that one! Compared to them, the SGP is moderately religious. Check out their answers on stemwijzer, they're pretty funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, AtariLegend said: La Pen is down 2 percent of the vote and in seat total compared to last time. As for Macron, it's pretty clear his base were people who voted for other parties prior to his rise. His party wasn't there last time. With this being pr and not a head to head 2v2 people didn't have to vote for Macron, just because they didn't like La Pen. Semsic shift is a huge stretch. Spin it all you want but EU's metrosexual poster boy has been embarrassed. Can you spin the 28% swing (34%) to Salvini? Lega and M5S combined: that is over 50% (43/76 seats) of the Italian electorate opting for Eurosceptics! Edited May 27, 2019 by DieselDaisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: He is more famous for being a right-wing nutjob who hates muslims. You're not wrong, but it's not just that. He's very good at reenforcing people's idea that they're always getting the short end of the stick while others (foreigners, the rich, pick whatever scapegoat flavor of the day you like) are getting special treatment. He creates dissatisfaction and creates a number of scapegoats. Thierry Baudet of FvD pretty much does the same, but he uses bigger words. With an added pinch of gender-inequality. Basically he wants white women to stop working and have more babies so we're not being out-bred. But, again, he uses bigger words Edited May 27, 2019 by username 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 Wilders is considered a right-wing politician but he's more left than most left-wing politicians. Just not when it comes down to certain topics, like for example immigration and Islam, then he turns extremely right. Sometimes Wilders makes a lot of sense, but once he starts talking about certain topics it becomes impossible to take him seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 That is like M5S and this new brand of European populism which cannot be neatly defined by left and right, adopting environmentalism and welfare expansion in addition to same-sex marriage and migration control. Broadly this brand of politics are anti-authoritarian (anti-status quo), anti-centrist, Eurosceptic and advocate a more direct brand of democracy. They are very modern in how they operate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 hour ago, SoulMonster said: He is more famous for being a right-wing nutjob who hates muslims. I would have thought you'd agree with many of his criticisms of the Qur'an, its incitement of terrorism, its advocacy for subjugation of women and homosexuals for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 One other point about Farage's poling. This political party, The Brexit Party, are only six weeks old! In six weeks they have equipped themselves with party financing/machinery, enrolled members, enrolled candidates and won a national election!! In contrast, Labour have existed for 119 years whereas the Tories and Lib Dems both have 341 years of history on their side. It is astonishing. Love him or loath him, Farage is certainly the most charismatic and revolutionary persona in British politics today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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