"Cancel Culture" Opinions?

[SoulMonster]

18 minutes ago, action said:

I don't believe the upbringing of a child should include a large discours on all the various minority groups in society. Realistically speaking, our parents didn't care about those things. I believe, a good parent should make sure his kid will survive in society. Therefore, my main concern is to make my kid stronger, and give him the tools, to the best of my knowledge, to cope in the real world. This includes his school and how he should interact with his friends, his teachers, and his work which includes his co workers and his boss. Some usefull, real life attitudes. That is, like, 30 % of my interactions with my son. The other 70 % are just having a good time with my son, playing games and going out doing enjoying things. 

This is my view on parenthood. I absolutely couldn't care less about the things you list. I believe the world is one large asylum, and I don't wish to saddle my son with confusing and traumatising information. A kid should be a kid, not the next greta thunberg

What is "traumatising" about getting to know that we have various sexual orientations and lifestyles? Why are you so disgusted by this? It is irrational and you risk passing it on to your kid. Don't be like that, you have the heart in the right place. Be better not because of you but because of your son who deserves it.

[action]

I try to picture myself explaining drag queens and transgender to my 7 year old son. Hormones, surgery etc. The poor boy will no doubt have nightmares, like I just told him a real life frankenstein tale.

there is a difference to what looks progressive in an internet message post, and real life.

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, soon said:

This is some funny shit!  Where you live is really far away fro the rest of the world, huh? How is it possibly shocking that people care about sex ed? Thats such a weird point of confusion to have.

Especially in light of you attributing peoples opinions to "wokeness" another term for which is Identity Politics. So yeah, they care about sexual identity... like a lot. Just think - you've got yourself worked up about "wokeness" and you dont even understand - by your own admission - one of its foundational elements 

I suppose I must live in the only place in the world where everyone believes sex ed was utter nonsense then? This is literally true, the opinion of which held. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by DieselDaisy

[action]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

What is "traumatising" about getting to know that we have various sexual orientations and lifestyles? Why are you so disgusted by this? It is irrational and you risk passing it on to your kid. Don't be like that, you have the heart in the right place. Be better not because of you but because of your son who deserves it.

sometimes, it's revealing to just look away from your monitor, and out of the window. that's real life, not one-upping each other with progressive drivel

[SoulMonster]

Just now, action said:

I try to picture myself explaining drag queens and transgender to my 7 year old son. Hormones, surgery etc. The poor boy will no doubt have nightmares, like I just told him a real life frankenstein tale.

there is a difference to what looks progressive in an internet message post, and real life.

I think kids are more resilient than you think...and are. I see absolutely no issue with talking about drag queens ("men who dress up as women") or hormones ("molecules with many functions including how our bodies grow and develop") and if your kid is okay to hear about surgery in general, like fixing a broken leg with metal rods or mastectomy to remove a tumor, then I can't see why he wouldn't take in his stride a superficial explanation of gender-corrective surgery. At the very least you can extremely vague and non-specific ("it's a medical procedure where men are treated to look more like women"). 

I am extremely confident that the problem here isn't your son, but you.

4 minutes ago, action said:

sometimes, it's revealing to just look away from your monitor, and out of the window. that's real life, not one-upping each other with progressive drivel

I asked you, what is "traumatising" about getting to know that we have various sexual orientations and lifestyles?

[DieselDaisy]

6 minutes ago, action said:

sometimes, it's revealing to just look away from your monitor, and out of the window. that's real life, not one-upping each other with progressive drivel

I work from home, and this lockdown means I have even less contact with people (cricket/drinking friends). I need to keep reminding myself that the opinions held by Soul, Dazey etc are literally nothing like the opinions held by people out there in the real world - at least in my area. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by DieselDaisy

[action]

9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I think kids are more resilient than you think...and are. I see absolutely no issue with talking about drag queens ("men who dress up as women") or hormones ("molecules with many functions including how our bodies grow and develop") and if your kid is okay to hear about surgery in general, like fixing a broken leg with metal rods or mastectomy to remove a tumor, then I can't see why he wouldn't take in his stride a superficial explanation of gender-corrective surgery. At the very least you can extremely vague and non-specific ("it's a medical procedure where men are treated to look more like women"). 

I am extremely confident that the problem here isn't your son, but you.

 

so now I need to talk about tumors to my son? 😂

7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I work from home, and this lockdown means I have even less contact with people (cricket/drinking friends). I need to keep reminding myself that the opinions held by Soul, Dazey etc are literally nothing like the opinions held by people out there in the real world - at least in my area. 

walking outside, breathing the fresh air and the common sense of real people, that's such a relief after indulging in the oppressive atmosphere of an overly progressive crowd. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by action

[SoulMonster]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

I work from home, and this lockdown means I have even less contact with people (cricket/drinking friends). I need to keep reminding myself that the opinions held by Soul, Dazey etc are literally nothing like the opinions held by people out there in the real world - at least in my area. 

And those opinions would be that sexual education is beneficial because it -- among other things -- prevents teen pregnancies and STDs, and that we should be inclusive of people with different sexual orientation and self-identification than ourselves  

In your area people apparently hold opposite opinions on these things.

It doesn't really work in travel brochures, does it? "Welcome to Gammony! We burn gays and impregnate teenagers".

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, action said:

so now I need to talk about tumors to my son? 😂

Haven't you had a relative die of cancer yet? Good on you. It will happen, though, and your son will probably like to know. It is a good conversation to have because it is a great starting point to talk about genetics, molecular biology, health, aging, statistics, medicine, death, etc. Again, you can make it as descriptive or vague as you'd like.

[soon]

6 minutes ago, action said:

I try to picture myself explaining drag queens and transgender to my 7 year old son. Hormones, surgery etc. The poor boy will no doubt have nightmares, like I just told him a real life frankenstein tale.

there is a difference to what looks progressive in an internet message post, and real life.

Okay, you are projecting a bit here though. Because how you teach your son is a responsibility that you bear. The nightmares could be caused by your approach.

That said, its true that a given 7 year old might not benefit from knowing details about surgeries and such. Or even any details about trans issues? Just the basics overview to the extent that they can respect and engage with the other kids - some who may identify as trans.

But it is a struggle for sure, kids and teens are trying to figure out their identity and its difficult for them. Sometimes they are very confused about sexuality and its possible that big dumps of info might only further confuse the process. 

I know some parents, some progressives, some lefties who are very carefully trying to navigate these very things. One boy enjoyed wearing dresses to school and then learned of trans and came home demanding medical interventions. But they worry that based on specifics of what he said, that he might just be in a phase and hasnt really said anything about why he'd need to block hormones, other then he seems to find safety in knowing that outside his school there is a community that accepts him as a boy in a dress. They dont hear him talking about feeling like a girl at all. Hes always just liked the clothes and was made fun of a lot. Until they hear anything about the nature of how he self identifies they arent willing to indulge him about interventions. They talk to him and that is what they believe. So they had taken steps to minimize his exposure to the discussions in the classroom. They have been judged negatively by some in our community. But it all makes sense to me. 

[action]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Haven't you had a relative die of cancer yet? Good on you. It will happen, though, and your son will probably like to know. It is a good conversation to have because it is a great starting point to talk about genetics, molecular biology, health, aging, statistics, medicine, death, etc. Again, you can make it as descriptive or vague as you'd like.

"he's a star in the sky" works for me

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, action said:

"he's a star in the sky" works for me

But this isn't about you, this is about your son. 

[DieselDaisy]

11 minutes ago, action said:

so now I need to talk about tumors to my son? 😂

walking outside, breathing the fresh air and the common sense of real people, that's such a relief after indulging in the oppressive atmosphere of a crowd of an overly progressive crowd. 

Nobody I know is obsessively atheist, although none of them are religious. Nobody I know gives a monkeys about Trump, although most of them think he is a prat. They all thought the BLM thing was a diabolical horror show. They all think Extinction Rebellion is a bunch of hippy nonsense. They all utterly hate political correctness. Nobody would dare to express an opinion on how the other should raise one's child - this is simply ''not cricket'', i.e., you simply don't do it. Normal blokes talking about normal things.

(And before anyone says, no they are not a monolith. I am even chums with a Scottish nationalist/EU fella.)

[action]

14 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

But this isn't about you, this is about your son. 

exactly

[action]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

 That includes giving him an inclusive perspective on people with a different sexual orientation and self-identification. 

 

the best education my dad ever gave, looking back, was putting me on his field from 7 years old till 15, working in the sun with adults, not earning a penny for it. I cursed my dad for it, while my friends were on vacation or to the pool, I was digging in the dirt baking in the sun, with adults around me talking about adult stuff. On the last day of school, he said "enjoy the rest of your day, tomorrow morning at 8am you're expected at the field".

I learned two things: I learned that however sorry your situation appears to be, it can always get worse, and I learned that studying is important, to improve your working conditions. to this day I thank my dad for this important life lesson. Knowing myself, I would have ended in the gutter without it. I have a loose character, I needed to be tamed.

I'm not letting my son do the same things, I couldn't do that to my son, I'm doing it differently with lots of love and care. I hope he won't end up on drugs.

Edited August 16, 2020 by action

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

11 hours ago, Dazey said:

Your people.  

 

Is the drag person (is that the term?) trying to be a 60's Batman villain? 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Basic_GnR_Fan

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

10 hours ago, alfierose said:

To me this is the biggest issue, not the concern that young boys will be turned gay or whatever - they're either gay or not and meeting a drag queen won't change that. I have a big issue though with drag being presented to young girls as a sexy parody of womanhood. It's an inherently sexist culture if you take notice of how women are portrayed and called out using terms like fishy. Everyone rightly gets very upset with derogatory portrayals of black people by white people for entertainment but somehow drag queens are super progressive.

It's funny because there is a line of thinking coming out that sexuality is a continuum. Also interesting that the social left tends to be nature over nurture when it comes to sexuality, but nurture over nature when it comes to race.

But back to sexuality, I think a reasonable position until we know more is that sexuality can be a combination of nature and nurture. So that yes there are some people that are going to be gay or straight no matter what. But is there a percentage of the population that is somewhere in the middle and environmental factors could play a part in how they choose to express their sexuality? I think there could be, and more needs to be discovered in this area.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Basic_GnR_Fan

[soon]

I heard a fascinating interview with a researcher who's bringing to light about a tradition among enslaved Africans in the South. I cant remember the name of the tradition but it was akin to what we call Drag shows today. Basically the enslaved men would be so downtrodden that they really benefited from a chance to strut and feel confident. And the researcher theorized that the tradition was equal parts various ritual and cultural references from African traditions blended with the splendour of the wealthy ladies theyd see from time to time. The wealthy ladies of the time possibly evoked memories of traditional dress and customs? 

Regardless, that was a tool of survival, to be as striking as a wealthy lady. To get to feel powerful and to hear the community cheer you on.

[DieselDaisy]

Only history cancelled? Fear not as they're coming for science,

 

[SoulMonster]

25 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Only history cancelled? Fear not as they're coming for science,

 

Who cares what one student thinks? Oh yeah, people on the far right who are creating strawmen to fight.

[action]

gravity is basically the fundament of fat shaming. it needs to go.

34 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Only history cancelled? Fear not as they're coming for science,

 

In the end, the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality, was tacitly denied by their philosophy. The heresy of heresies was common sense. And what was terrifying was not that they would kill you for thinking otherwise, but that they might be right. For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable — what then?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_%2B_2_%3D_5

[Dazey]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Only history cancelled? Fear not as they're coming for science,

 

What wonderful people you follow on Twitter.  

  

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Dazey

[Ace Nova]

23 hours ago, action said:

I try to picture myself explaining drag queens and transgender to my 7 year old son. Hormones, surgery etc. The poor boy will no doubt have nightmares, like I just told him a real life frankenstein tale.

there is a difference to what looks progressive in an internet message post, and real life.

My biggest issue with that type of stuff is when you see a 7 or 8 year old "identifying" as "this" or "that".  (Their parents saying they are “identifying” as “this” or “that”.) 

 For starters, from a psychological perspective, no one at that age "Knows" his/her "orientation" yet.  So for parents to "reinforce" that type of "coming out" at that age is borderline child abuse, imo.

Just about every 7 or 8 year old plays "dress up" etc etc....just because your 7 year old kid dresses up as a "girl" one day, does not mean he is "identifying" as such.  He's just being a kid and playing.  No different than what kids have been doing for thousands of years. 

Now if your kid starts doing that on a regular basis past the age of 12 or 13...then maybe that's a different story....but until then, no parent should be reinforcing their kids to "identify" as anything other than being a kid.

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Ace Nova

[action]

10 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

My biggest issue with that type of stuff is when you see a 7 or 8 year old "identifying" as "this" or "that".  For starters, from a psychological perspective, no one at that age "Knows" his/her "orientation" yet.  So for parents to "reinforce" that type of "coming out" at that age is borderline child abuse, imo.

Just about every 7 or 8 year old plays "dress up" etc etc....just because your 7 year old kid dresses up as a "girl" one day, does not mean he is "identifying" as such.  He's just being a kid and playing.  No different than what kids have been doing for thousands of years. 

Now if your kid starts doing that on a regular basis past the age of 12 or 13...then maybe that's a different story....but until then, no parent should be reinforcing their kids to "identify" as anything other than being a kid.

 

not borderline. it is child abuse, pure and simple. people who engage in such behaviour should be jailed along with pedophiles.

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, Ace Nova said:

My biggest issue with that type of stuff is when you see a 7 or 8 year old "identifying" as "this" or "that".  For starters, from a psychological perspective, no one at that age "Knows" his/her "orientation" yet.  So for parents to "reinforce" that type of "coming out" at that age is borderline child abuse, imo.

So what you are saying is that up til the age of 7-8 parents should dress their kids in gender-neutral clothes, give them gender-neutral names and address them gender-neutrally, because otherwise they would be "reinforcing" a child's orientation at a time when no one would know it?