Covid-19 Thread

[action]

22 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Wait. Medicine produced by human beings wasn't 100% error free? Tell me more. 

I've never claimed otherwise.

just expressing a straight narrative, now and yesterday

I'd love to tell you more, but then I'll be the moron again.

So we'll not do that.

[soon]

2 minutes ago, action said:

I never predicted anaphilactic reactions, mind. 

I expressed carefullness, nothing else.

I said, I'll wait a year or two, and then review.

How long since britain started vaccinating?

And how long since the BS starts?

but ok, guess I'm being a moron again.

I was completely polite, construct and genuinely nice! Thought I was raising 'the other side of the coin' for the conversation. And I would have been happy to help ease any anxieties in doing so.

Or as you describe my post "BS"

[action]

Just now, soon said:

I was completely polite, construct and genuinely nice! Thought I was raising 'the other side of the coin' for the conversation. And I would have been happy to help ease any anxieties in doing so.

Or as you describe my post "BS"

I didn't describe your post as BS, what? relax, I'm not here to fight. I come in peace.

[RussTCB]

2 minutes ago, action said:

I've never claimed otherwise.

just expressing a straight narrative, now and yesterday

I'd love to tell you more, but then I'll be the moron again.

So we'll not do that.

There's drawbacks to everything created by humans including and especially medicine. We're all aware of that. That doesn't mean that the vaccine help a large amount of people though. 

[DieselDaisy]

26 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Wait. Medicine produced by human beings wasn't 100% error free? Tell me more. 

Without commenting on this particular story, are you saying it is expected to put out on the market medicine that possesses errors - just think about what you wrote there as it goes against all safety precautions?

 

[action]

2 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

There's drawbacks to everything created by humans including and especially medicine. We're all aware of that. That doesn't mean that the vaccine help a large amount of people though. 

I am absolutely convinced that it will help a large amount of people. And also, that there will be drawbacks.

I'm also genuinly surprised that the drawbacks are showing, already. it's been what, two days since vaccination started?

 

[DieselDaisy]

3 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

There's drawbacks to everything created by humans including and especially medicine. We're all aware of that. That doesn't mean that the vaccine help a large amount of people though. 

''Drawbacks'' from things you are injecting in your arm could potentially kill you!

[action]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

''Drawbacks'' from things you are injecting in your arm could potentially kill you!

it's back to the drawing board for the left.

I think a change in discours is needed.

try to install forced vaccination under these conditions...

 

[RussTCB]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Without commenting on this particular story, are you saying it is expected to put out on the market medicine that possesses errors - just think about what you wrote there as it goes against all safety precautions?

 

Not sure how much clearer I could be: every single thing made by humans, including medicine, has the chance of human error. 

2 minutes ago, action said:

I am absolutely convinced that it will help a large amount of people. And also, that there will be drawbacks.

I'm also genuinly surprised that the drawbacks are showing, already. it's been what, two days since vaccination started?

 

I swear I'm asking sincerely (because you seem to think I never am): what would you prefer? Years? 

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

''Drawbacks'' from things you are injecting in your arm could potentially kill you!

Yes, and? 

[DieselDaisy]

Are people so desperate for a vaccine that they are willing to flippantly disregard complications as ''errors'' and ''drawbacks''? This is bonkers!

1 minute ago, RussTCB said:

Not sure how much clearer I could be: every single thing made by humans, including medicine, has the chance of human error. 

There can be no errors which is why these things have three stages of trials, and truthfully, usually take years to reach the market. 

[action]

2 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

 

I swear I'm asking sincerely (because you seem to think I never am): what would you prefer? Years? 

 

this is actually a dark question as no matter what I answer, I'll always be the selfish prick waiting for other people to suffer drawbacks while I'm waiting and seeing.

But your question is besides the matter. The real question is: how in hell's name did they drop this vaccination so quickly and don't tell me they tested this well enough, when two days after injection stuff like this happens. Don't tell me, they didn't knew this in advance.

the real question is also, what with all these different types of vaccinations, one claiming 90%, an other 92%, and still another 97%. An upbidding of percentages, on the back of innocent people who suffer the potential consequences.

I refuse to take responsability for any of this, nor do I feel a slightest ounce of guilt for not getting vaccinated. 

the rest, everyone has to decide on their own.

[DieselDaisy]

6 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Not sure how much clearer I could be: every single thing made by humans, including medicine, has the chance of human error. 

I swear I'm asking sincerely (because you seem to think I never am): what would you prefer? Years? 

Yes, and? 

But this doesn't matter as, the vaccine will ''help a large amount of people though''? Medicines simply must  be error-free, at least up to concurrent pharmaceutical knowledge, before they reach the public - there can be no substitute. 

[DieselDaisy]

The basic premise is correct however, that medicines can (and will) possess foibles - e.g., 

https://www.medicalerroraustralia.com/medical-disasters/10-worst-drug-recalls-in-history/

The issue is, would anyone so flippantly disregard them now, for this?

[soon]

55 minutes ago, action said:

I didn't describe your post as BS, what? relax, I'm not here to fight. I come in peace.

Then whyd you pick a fight with me after I made a perfectly freindly post to you?

31 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The basic premise is correct however, that medicines can (and will) possess foibles - e.g., 

https://www.medicalerroraustralia.com/medical-disasters/10-worst-drug-recalls-in-history/

The issue is, would anyone so flippantly disregard them now, for this?

No one is. They took it seriously and called on people wiht a history of reactions to abstain.

Lots of medicines arent for everyone. Tylenol doesnt agree with my stomach even. Or you hear the stories of men showing up at emergency rooms with concerns over their medically induced 4 hour boner.

(ps: who wouldnt want a 4 hour boner? )

52 minutes ago, action said:

it's back to the drawing board for the left.

I think a change in discours is needed.

try to install forced vaccination under these conditions...

 

Huh??? So much to ask about here... I'll go with BoJo aint a lefty...

 

[action]

2 minutes ago, soon said:

Then whyd you pick a fight with me after I made a perfectly freindly post to you?

No one is. They took it seriously and called on people wiht a history of reactions to abstain.

Lots of medicines arent for everyone. Tylenol doesnt agree with my stomach even. Or you hear the stories of men showing up at emergency rooms with concerns over their medically induced 4 hour boner.

(ps: who wouldnt want a 4 hour boner? )

Huh??? So much to ask about here... I'll go with BoJo aint a lefty...

 

that was me just being normal, I wasn't picking fights.

After watching the chicken stream for the last hour, I'm a bit friendlier than usual. So at most, I was just reinstating the pecking order 

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Many US states have the vaccines ready to go. Some states need to make a list of who gets the vaccines first. Some states haven't done that yet. Unreal.

Anyway, it still makes me sad as to how many people are sick and can't get this vaccine.

I have some friends who are in the medical field and they have seen patients with many different symptoms. They say this virus keeps evolving every day. I hope these vaccines work.

It's scary waiting for your turn. I would love for my daughter to get the vaccine before me, but kids have to wait. It's crazy right now.

I hope the seniors in the UK who received the vaccine are okay and not having any weird symptoms.

We are all looking to them right now.

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Without commenting on this particular story, are you saying it is expected to put out on the market medicine that possesses errors - just think about what you wrote there as it goes against all safety precautions?

Yes. All drugs have side effects. 

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

There can be no errors which is why these things have three stages of trials, and truthfully, usually take years to reach the market. 

Of course there can be side-effects not discovered during clinical phase I, II and II. Which is why there is monitoring of drugs' side effects after approval, and in some cases drugs will be withdrawn when it actually turns out they do not work as well as intended. This post-launch monitoring is often referred to as clinical phase IV. 

This isn't too difficult to grasp. During pre-approval clinical trials, the drugs are tested on a limited number of people. If side effects are sufficiently rare, they might not be discovered during these trials because the number of test subjects are too low. Just image a drug that causes death in 1 out of a million people. If the drugs are only tested on 30,000 in clinical trials prior to market launch, it is likely this side effect will not be known. It is simple probability theory. But when the drug has been approved and is used on millions of people, these side effects will become known.

Additionally, and often more importantly, clinical trials may fail to test on all kinds of people (all ages, both sexes, all ethnicicities, people with all kinds of other diseases and drugs use), and hence some important connections between specific people and the new drug may be undiscovered. 

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

But this doesn't matter as, the vaccine will ''help a large amount of people though''? Medicines simply must  be error-free, at least up to concurrent pharmaceutical knowledge, before they reach the public - there can be no substitute. 

Thinking that medicines must be error-free is one of the most naïve things I have read this month. Kudos.

[RussTCB]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Are people so desperate for a vaccine that they are willing to flippantly disregard complications as ''errors'' and ''drawbacks''? This is bonkers!

There can be no errors which is why these things have three stages of trials, and truthfully, usually take years to reach the market. 

"there can be no errors". 

So I guess you'd rather do away with all medicine, ever? 

1 hour ago, action said:

this is actually a dark question as no matter what I answer, I'll always be the selfish prick waiting for other people to suffer drawbacks while I'm waiting and seeing.

But your question is besides the matter. The real question is: how in hell's name did they drop this vaccination so quickly and don't tell me they tested this well enough, when two days after injection stuff like this happens. Don't tell me, they didn't knew this in advance.

the real question is also, what with all these different types of vaccinations, one claiming 90%, an other 92%, and still another 97%. An upbidding of percentages, on the back of innocent people who suffer the potential consequences.

I refuse to take responsability for any of this, nor do I feel a slightest ounce of guilt for not getting vaccinated. 

the rest, everyone has to decide on their own.

Short version: "I don't believe this vaccine will work" and that's OK. 

Others believe it will and that's OK too. 

[RussTCB]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

But this doesn't matter as, the vaccine will ''help a large amount of people though''? Medicines simply must  be error-free, at least up to concurrent pharmaceutical knowledge, before they reach the public - there can be no substitute. 

Medicines are not, have never been and will never be error free. 

[soon]

The first brand/type of vaccine we will role out here has the issue of needing a cold and consistent temp (as Im sure many/ all of the vaccines are?). Anyways our top Dr made passing mention that at first they will only send vaccines to certain locations so that shipping logistics wont be an issue (big country and all).

I figure its safe to assume that she was speaking about major city centres in most cases.

So that will prolly help improve the urban/rural divide! haha. Especially all the MAGA wannabees deep in the country. Im predicting a complete turnaround on their propaganda from "The vaccine is designed to kill us" to "They're hogging all the vaccines - they are trying to kill us!" Id be willing to wager!

 

[bucketfoot]

Bill Gates' human guinea pigs.

Vaccines aren't blasted out in eight months.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Edited December 9, 2020 by bucketfoot

[SoulMonster]

27 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Medicines are not, have never been and will never be error free. 

You hit the nail on the head a few posts back when you said something to the effect of medicine having to be flawed since they are made by humans. That is entirely correct. Our manufacturing processes aren't perfect and the active ingredient in a drugs display some chemical variation. Which is why regulatory bodies demand 98 % purity or so, meaning that some variation is okay. In fact for some complex drugs, like antibody drugs made using CHO cells, the batch-to-batch variation is staggering, but it is the best we humans can do. 

But in addition to the medicines not being homogenous, which may lead to side effects or lowered efficacy, we are not always able to design active ingredients that don't cause some undesired side effects. We simply don't have the biochemical skills to develop perfect drugs. 

Lastly, and @soonmade this point earlier, we humans are so different physiologically and chemically, that we respond differently to any chemical injected, eaten, swallowed, etc. Which is why clinical trials not only involves many people, but many different people. And which is why we know see the advent of personalised medicine where we tailor-make drugs (or administration protocols, or dosing regimes, or delivery methods) to each patient. 

1 minute ago, bucketfoot said:

Vaccines aren't blasted out in eight months.

Yet every year we have a new flu vaccine. 

[soon]

Canada approved 2 vaccines today! I missed it as I did home improvements with a Star Wars audiobook playing

And I'll tell ya, the thought of a vaccine tastes like proper restaurant green coconut curry! And Dosa! Fries and a shake! Ooh... and lobster eggs benny with tarragon hollandaise

[DieselDaisy]

52 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

So I guess you'd rather do away with all medicine, ever? 

No. Straw man.