"The General" is officially delayed... but "The General" AND "Monsters" is (unofficially) out of the bag

[Pskihq92]

5 minutes ago, jimisbatman said:

Do we know for certain that the orchestral part is underlayer and not sole track opening music? 

Dont kill me, but pray Slash doesn't completely wreck buckets parts

Of course he will lol

[jimisbatman]

On 8/20/2023 at 9:17 AM, Gordon Comstock said:

 

The early demo will still be valuable, it would be more like hearing a YCBM demo from the 80s. Obviously not the official release, but played by an arguably better band and probably different enough to be interesting on its own.

I hope if a CD box set ever gets released, all the early versions of these NITL singles will still be included.

This. Boxset with early versions would be heaven for me. If this never comes to pass, I would love Axl do solo record with Brain/Robin/Bucket. And just release/tour CD 2.

[jimisbatman]

16 hours ago, Sweersa said:

I believe a lot of material is out there, of the likes you mention but those who have them simply have no interest in sharing, trading, etc. in any way or don’t have an interest in the band or material anymore and just abandon them or leave them on their PCs.

I also believe TB has reached out to some of the more known ones and got them to be quiet. 
 

This makes sense. Do you think it's a possibility that if its out there, it could leak in the future? 

[DannyVinyard]

6 hours ago, Old_school_gnr_fan said:

If Slash hadn’t returned to Guns N’ Roses in 2016, Axl and his band would be playing at 2,000 seat venues, or maybe not playing anywhere at all. 

I’m pretty sure Axl had an epiphany sometime during the Las Vegas residency, and asked himself how it had gotten to that point. From the world’s biggest band in 1991 to a Las Vegas residency.

You only hurt yourself by hearing leaked demos performed by musicians for hire that were never meant to be heard unless it was an official release. Slash never was a shredder, and Guns N’ Roses was never meant to be a band consisting of quirky, offbeat musicians like Buckethead and Robin Finck. It’s strange enough that Fortus was once in The Psychedelic Furs.
 

 

Axl can only blame Axl for the downfall of NuGNR. His no show in Philly cost him the rest of the 2002 and Buckethead. He hid for 4 years, came back in 2006 and still refused to release the album. 2008 came and the record company said "FU Axl, we are releasing this album now". Axl refused to promote or support it in any way, and this caused  Finck to finally quit. Then Axl comes back in 2011 to Rock in Rio, all bloated, out of shape, and sounding like Mickey. Like he just stopped caring about everything(his look, his health, his sound, and his band), it was a wonder to me why he even bothered. What an embarrassment. His actions alone caused a disinterest in the band. Bucket, Finck, and Brain were amazing talents with so much potential and very high ceiling, all of which was derailed by Axl Rose. Their lack of success is no fault of their own. Nothing offbeat (musically speaking) about any of the original NuGNR. These guys were some of the best musicians on the planet. Axl gave up on himself and NuGNR. He sold himself (along with his early 2000's vision) out and gave into the money. Now we have a non-stop cash grab tour (2016-present) with Slash butchering perfect solos created by Robin Finck. Casuals can pay big bucks to see sloppy Axl Rose and washed up Slash play the oldies over and over all they want. I know damn sure I'm not going to.

[Rovim]

53 minutes ago, DannyVinyard said:

Axl can only blame Axl for the downfall of NuGNR. His no show in Philly cost him the rest of the 2002 and Buckethead. He hid for 4 years, came back in 2006 and still refused to release the album. 2008 came and the record company said "FU Axl, we are releasing this album now". Axl refused to promote or support it in any way, and this caused  Finck to finally quit. Then Axl comes back in 2011 to Rock in Rio, all bloated, out of shape, and sounding like Mickey. Like he just stopped caring about everything(his look, his health, his sound, and his band), it was a wonder to me why he even bothered. What an embarrassment. His actions alone caused a disinterest in the band. Bucket, Finck, and Brain were amazing talents with so much potential and very high ceiling, all of which was derailed by Axl Rose. Their lack of success is no fault of their own. Nothing offbeat (musically speaking) about any of the original NuGNR. These guys were some of the best musicians on the planet. Axl gave up on himself and NuGNR. He sold himself (along with his early 2000's vision) out and gave into the money. Now we have a non-stop cash grab tour (2016-present) with Slash butchering perfect solos created by Robin Finck. Casuals can pay big bucks to see sloppy Axl Rose and washed up Slash play the oldies over and over all they want. I know damn sure I'm not going to.

pretty cool music video for Perhaps though

[jacdaniel]

56 minutes ago, DannyVinyard said:

Axl can only blame Axl for the downfall of NuGNR. His no show in Philly cost him the rest of the 2002 and Buckethead. He hid for 4 years, came back in 2006 and still refused to release the album. 2008 came and the record company said "FU Axl, we are releasing this album now". Axl refused to promote or support it in any way, and this caused  Finck to finally quit. Then Axl comes back in 2011 to Rock in Rio, all bloated, out of shape, and sounding like Mickey. Like he just stopped caring about everything(his look, his health, his sound, and his band), it was a wonder to me why he even bothered. What an embarrassment. His actions alone caused a disinterest in the band. Bucket, Finck, and Brain were amazing talents with so much potential and very high ceiling, all of which was derailed by Axl Rose. Their lack of success is no fault of their own. Nothing offbeat (musically speaking) about any of the original NuGNR. These guys were some of the best musicians on the planet. Axl gave up on himself and NuGNR. He sold himself (along with his early 2000's vision) out and gave into the money. Now we have a non-stop cash grab tour (2016-present) with Slash butchering perfect solos created by Robin Finck. Casuals can pay big bucks to see sloppy Axl Rose and washed up Slash play the oldies over and over all they want. I know damn sure I'm not going to.

Why are you posting on a Guns N Roses forum? 

I'm sure there must be somewhere on the internet you can go to chat with a couple of Finck fans? 

[Free Bird]

Perfect Finck solos 

 

[Rovim]

14 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

Perfect Finck solos 

 

love this clip and Robin's playing. Doesn't have to be perfect to be good and imho, Robin's version of the SCOM solo was good. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Rovim

[Free Bird]

3 minutes ago, Rovim said:

love this clip and Robin's playing. Doesn't have to be perfect to be good and imho, Robin's version of the SCOM solo was good. 

Agree to disagree. My ears bleeded when I first heard that.

[megaguns1982]

2 hours ago, DannyVinyard said:

Axl can only blame Axl for the downfall of NuGNR. His no show in Philly cost him the rest of the 2002 and Buckethead. He hid for 4 years, came back in 2006 and still refused to release the album. 2008 came and the record company said "FU Axl, we are releasing this album now". Axl refused to promote or support it in any way, and this caused  Finck to finally quit. Then Axl comes back in 2011 to Rock in Rio, all bloated, out of shape, and sounding like Mickey. Like he just stopped caring about everything(his look, his health, his sound, and his band), it was a wonder to me why he even bothered. What an embarrassment. His actions alone caused a disinterest in the band. Bucket, Finck, and Brain were amazing talents with so much potential and very high ceiling, all of which was derailed by Axl Rose. Their lack of success is no fault of their own. Nothing offbeat (musically speaking) about any of the original NuGNR. These guys were some of the best musicians on the planet. Axl gave up on himself and NuGNR. He sold himself (along with his early 2000's vision) out and gave into the money. Now we have a non-stop cash grab tour (2016-present) with Slash butchering perfect solos created by Robin Finck. Casuals can pay big bucks to see sloppy Axl Rose and washed up Slash play the oldies over and over all they want. I know damn sure I'm not going to.

I agree with some of your statement, but if Axl had continued without the reunion, I doubt we’d have any new music or tours, I’d say he would have called it quits and disappeared forever.

2016 was an awesome time to be a GNR fan, but it’s gradually gone downhill.

[Seb91]

17 minutes ago, Rovim said:

love this clip and Robin's playing. Doesn't have to be perfect to be good and imho, Robin's version of the SCOM solo was good. 

Yeah - think his playing was fine in that clip. He could be sloppy for sure but that clip wasn’t an example of that. It’s obvious that Axl hired players for their compositional chops more then their ability to do stuff note for note anyway - Robin’s TIL solo shows the guy’s no slouch on guitar! 

[Rovim]

20 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

Agree to disagree. My ears bleeded when I first heard that.

that's fine, by now I kinda already know your opinion on Robin anyway, I just don't get why would anyone spend time posting clips and mock shit they're not even into, but that's your business.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Rovim

[jimisbatman]

23 minutes ago, Rovim said:

love this clip and Robin's playing. Doesn't have to be perfect to be good and imho, Robin's version of the SCOM solo was good. 

Now by compassion, let's play a twat solo from Slash. 

[Seb91]

26 minutes ago, megaguns1982 said:

I agree with some of your statement, but if Axl had continued without the reunion, I doubt we’d have any new music or tours, I’d say he would have called it quits and disappeared forever.

2016 was an awesome time to be a GNR fan, but it’s gradually gone downhill.

This. The NuGuns project was well and truly over in 2014. Six years with no new music and yet another lineup change on the cards with Ron and Tommy going. We were definitely heading for the era of ‘Axl Rose sings the songs of Guns N’ Roses’ rather than an exciting GN’R lineup. 

It seems Axl had no desire to put stuff out after Robin left. I feel Bucket going was the first nail in the coffin re new music and Robin going was the final one. Although there was that rumour that the record label rejected an album in the Ashba era. Whatever the reason the only reason we’ve got these songs is because of the reunion so it’s Slash versions or no versions. The only way there would have been Bucket or Robin versions released is if Chinese had come out in 2002 or 2006 and the lineup stayed consistent properly. I think the 2002 tour drama and then failing to capitalise on the 2006 success is what really did NuGuns in. 

[rumandraisin]

3 minutes ago, Seb91 said:

This. The NuGuns project was well and truly over in 2014. Six years with no new music and yet another lineup change on the cards with Ron and Tommy going. We were definitely heading for the era of ‘Axl Rose sings the songs of Guns N’ Roses’ rather than an exciting GN’R lineup. 

It seems Axl had no desire to put stuff out after Robin left. I feel Bucket going was the first nail in the coffin re new music and Robin going was the final one. Although there was that rumour that the record label rejected an album in the Ashba era. Whatever the reason the only reason we’ve got these songs is because of the reunion so it’s Slash versions or no versions. The only way there would have been Bucket or Robin versions released is if Chinese had come out in 2002 or 2006 and the lineup stayed consistent properly. I think the 2002 tour drama and then failing to capitalise on the 2006 success is what really did NuGuns in. 

You can trace the loss of any interest in recording to once Buckethead left. Since then he's only worked on stuff recorded prior to his departure and reworked that material with each changing member. The last new songs recorded were probably Scraped and The General, those ones that aren't on the locker discs but we are aware about. 

Bumblefoot said he only added to already existing songs. Ashba said they never actually worked on anything and Slash had said the same. 

This really does mean once Buckethead left he lost any interest in starting a new song. Scraped is probably amongst the "newest" Guns songs when you think about it. 

[rumandraisin]

1 hour ago, Free Bird said:

Perfect Finck solos 

 

My favourite version of the solo! 

[Free Bird]

51 minutes ago, Rovim said:

that's fine, by now I kinda already know your opinion on Robin anyway, I just don't get why would anyone spend time posting clips and mock shit they're not even into, but that's your business.

Oh no no, credit where credit's due. I love his work on Better and TWAT for example. Like there are Buckethead solos I love and others I find ridiculously bad (musically - not technically)

I post this simply to prove my point.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Free Bird

[rumandraisin]

3 hours ago, DannyVinyard said:

Axl can only blame Axl for the downfall of NuGNR. His no show in Philly cost him the rest of the 2002 and Buckethead. He hid for 4 years, came back in 2006 and still refused to release the album. 2008 came and the record company said "FU Axl, we are releasing this album now". Axl refused to promote or support it in any way, and this caused  Finck to finally quit. Then Axl comes back in 2011 to Rock in Rio, all bloated, out of shape, and sounding like Mickey. Like he just stopped caring about everything(his look, his health, his sound, and his band), it was a wonder to me why he even bothered. What an embarrassment. His actions alone caused a disinterest in the band. Bucket, Finck, and Brain were amazing talents with so much potential and very high ceiling, all of which was derailed by Axl Rose. Their lack of success is no fault of their own. Nothing offbeat (musically speaking) about any of the original NuGNR. These guys were some of the best musicians on the planet. Axl gave up on himself and NuGNR. He sold himself (along with his early 2000's vision) out and gave into the money. Now we have a non-stop cash grab tour (2016-present) with Slash butchering perfect solos created by Robin Finck. Casuals can pay big bucks to see sloppy Axl Rose and washed up Slash play the oldies over and over all they want. I know damn sure I'm not going to.

Axl was lucky enough to get a second chance in 2006 after everything, through his own making, went wrong in 2002. And still couldn't let the record go, a finished record I might add. 

No one would listen to those leaks from 2008 and think "this really needs more guitar and the drums redoing on some tracks". He just couldn't let the album go. 

2006 was the last shot nu guns had and the last chance at CD being a genuine success and they blew it. 

[Free Bird]

1 hour ago, jimisbatman said:

Now by compassion, let's play a twat solo from Slash. 

I admit sometimes he sounds like shit on TWAT and Sorry but there are gigs where he nailed the solos (TWAT) or made his own great rendition (Sorry). He doesn't play them as bad as people here claim. Same with TIL.

But...!

Slash came back to HIS baby. He has every right to play the solos like he wants to. Solos that aren't played in his style. Solos from songs that aren't considered as classics by any means. It's different than having Finck or whoever butchered his classic solos everybody came for.

 

[Lies They Tell]

5 hours ago, jimisbatman said:

Do we know for certain that the orchestral part is underlayer and not sole track opening music? 

We know for sure that there is an orchestral underlayer in the song that sounds similar as the orchestral part that we've heard before.

The orchestral underlayer can be heard in the GNR after party cellphone clip that leaked at some point.

We have no idea how the song is going to start. The General might have an intro or it might not have an intro. We simply have no clue. We only know that there is an orchestral underlayer in the song.

[RONIN]

10 hours ago, Old_school_gnr_fan said:

If Slash hadn’t returned to Guns N’ Roses in 2016, Axl and his band would be playing at 2,000 seat venues, or maybe not playing anywhere at all. 

I’m pretty sure Axl had an epiphany sometime during the Las Vegas residency, and asked himself how it had gotten to that point. From the world’s biggest band in 1991 to a Las Vegas residency.

You only hurt yourself by hearing leaked demos performed by musicians for hire that were never meant to be heard unless it was an official release. Slash never was a shredder, and Guns N’ Roses was never meant to be a band consisting of quirky, offbeat musicians like Buckethead and Robin Finck. It’s strange enough that Fortus was once in The Psychedelic Furs.
 

 

Great post. Nu Guns had their shot - 1997 to 2014. The band as it stood in 2014 was truly an embarrassment.

It's like Axl had an identity crisis. He wanted to turn GnR into an experimental band with a lineup of underground players (a really cool idea) to reflect his eclectic taste in music. It didn't work because Axl wasn't real with who he was. He wasn't Perry Farrell or Trent Reznor. He was a rock god trying to rebrand himself into an auteur/producer...unsuccessfully. I'm listening currently to U2's Passengers album which apparently Axl was obsessed with in '97 according to Chris Vrenna. It's a cool little album of film score-esque tracks. I don't know how this kind of material was going to ever be integrated into GnR with Duff and Slash. One can only imagine their bewilderment as he used Passengers and Nine Inch Nails as a reference point for the next GnR album. He was moving away from guitar driven music to ambient - almost mood music soundscapes. Again, a really cool idea....but I think he just kind of bit off more than he could chew or he was so confined by what GnR's brand was that he couldn't escape that gilded cage to do the kind of experimental stuff he really wanted. The GnR name became his prison I guess. It would have been really fascinating if Axl could have composed moody pieces like "Plot 180" from the Passengers album as a background texture for Bucket and Finck to play around in. I think what I'm trying to say is, I wish the dude just went solo. He probably could have come up with a sick experimental album. But with his work ethic and creative inertia - who knows if it would have gone anywhere. That and the obsession with chasing whatever new trend was happening at the moment probably would have doomed the whole thing. Supposedly, Axl and the band worked on a number of more experimental tracks too advanced for the mullet head contingent of the GnR fanbase. This so called "experimental" material might have included the rumored moby influenced prodigy-esque tracks. Who knows if this stuff actually exists in some cohesive format?

Some people on GnR evo think that the band is burying the Chi Dem Era to promote the classic lineup. One can only hope that there is a boxset put out of the CD era. IF it's too embarrassing to reveal to the world that he doesn't have more than a handful of vocal tracks completed after 14+ years for that project (it's starting to appear that way) - just give us the alternate version tracks completed with each producer they had. That would be what, a 7 cd set minimum to cover the different producers + a cd that culls the best live material from that era + another cd of demos/outtakes?  That would be of primo value to many fans. Naturally, it won't happen.

[El Guapo]

2 hours ago, Free Bird said:

Perfect Finck solos 

 

He did screw up a lot in the beginning, but this is cool as fuck.

Great energy and emotion in his playing here, it's pretty close and respectful to the original as well.

[Seb91]

50 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

I admit sometimes he sounds like shit on TWAT and Sorry but there are gigs where he nailed the solos (TWAT) or made his own great rendition (Sorry). He doesn't play them as bad as people here claim. Same with TIL.

But...!

Slash came back to HIS baby. He has every right to play the solos like he wants to. Solos that aren't played in his style. Solos from songs that aren't considered as classics by any means. It's different than having Finck or whoever butchered his classic solos everybody came for.

 

Chinese and that era isn’t Slash’s baby though. I don’t mind his reinterpretations and one of the more interesting aspects of the reunion has been hearing his take on the NuGuns stuff and Axl’s take on the VR stuff but complaining that Robin didn’t play stuff note for note (and he’s pretty much spot on there) but giving Slash a free pass just seems a bit contradictory. I mean, if pigs flew and Ritchie Blackmore came back to Deep Purple and changed solos from the Steve Morse era to arrangements people didn’t like as much then I imagine some folks would also be critical. 
 

Personally, I’m not bothered by Robin’s versions of Slash’s stuff or Slash’s versions of the NuGuns stuff. If I wanted to hear note for note recreations of songs I’d never go to shows and just listen to the records. I prefer bands who shake things up live. 

[Seb91]

1 hour ago, rumandraisin said:

Axl was lucky enough to get a second chance in 2006 after everything, through his own making, went wrong in 2002. And still couldn't let the record go, a finished record I might add. 

No one would listen to those leaks from 2008 and think "this really needs more guitar and the drums redoing on some tracks". He just couldn't let the album go. 

2006 was the last shot nu guns had and the last chance at CD being a genuine success and they blew it. 

Completely agree - 2006 was the biggest squandered opportunity. The hype was massive for that tour. Agree re Bucket and new material as well that seems to have been the biggest blow for Axl re NuGuns. 

[jacdaniel]

3 hours ago, Free Bird said:

Perfect Finck solos 

 

That solo is really bad to me in that it doesn't sound at all like Guns N Roses. 

And I think that's ultimately the issue. Classic Guns and Nu Guns are 2 separate bands.

I never enjoyed Nu Guns doing the classics and I don't really care much for Slash to play CD stuff. 

 

They should have always been treated as separate projects.