"The General" is officially delayed... but "The General" AND "Monsters" is (unofficially) out of the bag

[bumbleslash69]

Just now, Mikey Whipwreck said:

Didn't the trilogy quote come from Bach? He probably heard about 2.5-3 hours worth of music and figured that's 3 albums worth 

Correct. If we’re playing the speculation game and Axl is a primary source, all we know is that there was 26-32 songs, a second half to Chinese Democracy, and a remix album. For all we know, the 32 songs could have contained remixes. 

[Mikey Whipwreck]

1 hour ago, 2020_Intensions said:

What adds to the mystery too is that Axl (and GnR) were all over the news in 2014 right after the final NuGuns tour ended with ChiDem 2 and the remix album apparently in the pipelines ready to release. Then 2 guitarists and the bass player quit. So was that the catalyst that shelved (again) ChiDem 2 and directly led to the reunion? Slash and Duff then went through ChiDem 2 and picked the songs they liked and would be willing to work on, which is now what we're getting in piecemeal. So did Bumble, Ashba, and Stintson, by quitting the band, in effect, kill ChiDem 2? 

Axl and Pitman were known to be working to finish up CD2 in 2014. 

They were in a spot where they were going to have to release new music again. Public interest had waned and they were getting relegated to smaller and smaller venues.

Of course, the reunion scuttled that. The new music we've gotten has coincided with leaks and weakening ticket sales, I don't think that's coincidental. Even though 90% of the people showing up to a GNR show are only interested in songs from AFD through UYI

Edited August 22, 2023 by Mikey Whipwreck

[2020_Intensions]

28 minutes ago, bumbleslash69 said:

Correct. If we’re playing the speculation game and Axl is a primary source, all we know is that there was 26-32 songs, a second half to Chinese Democracy, and a remix album. For all we know, the 32 songs could have contained remixes. 

32 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

All the above concerning CD2 in 2010 is just speculation though. 

30 minutes ago, Mikey Whipwreck said:

. Didn't the trilogy quote come from Bach? 

 

Bach was quoting Axl. And that wasn't the first time we heard of a trilogy. That plan as far back as the very beginning, in the late 90s, early 2000/2001 period, was a trilogy, per Axl himself. And way back then, the number of songs was even higher than 32, which the Village leaks adds evidence of the amount of material that was being worked on at that point. The 32 songs containing remixes wouldn't make sense if they were working on that many as far back as 2000. They wouldn't have been doing remixes to an album that wasn't released. If Axl told Bach the 3rd album would be out in 2012, then obviously 2010 makes the most sense as to when ChiDem 2 would have been released. It's technically all speculation, but we have evidence that makes it a step above pure speculation. 

 

[AxlRoseCDII]

How true is the rumor that Axl submitted CD2 but it got rejected? If there’s any merit to it then it makes sense why the trilogy plans fell apart, but knowing this band it’s probably just an excuse.

[Mikey Whipwreck]

8 minutes ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

How true is the rumor that Axl submitted CD2 but it got rejected? If there’s any merit to it then it makes sense why the trilogy plans fell apart, but knowing this band it’s probably just an excuse.

My speculative guess is that it's a half truth. I do believe Axl wanted to get a second album out a year or two after CD. Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel.

But by early 2009 he was publicly bashing the label for what he viewed as a botched rollout where promises supposedly weren't kept. He and management probably wanted assurances of certain promotional budgets and marketing plans that were unrealistic based on the state of the music industry and the level of demand for a non-reunion GNR album in 2010 or 2012.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Mikey Whipwreck

[2020_Intensions]

17 minutes ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

How true is the rumor that Axl submitted CD2 but it got rejected? If there’s any merit to it then it makes sense why the trilogy plans fell apart, but knowing this band it’s probably just an excuse.

I highly doubt it was rejected. I can't imagine a brand name as big as Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses would get denied any album they wanted to release, especially when all of the work was done and the costs had already been paid for. How much money has the reunion made for the label thus far? The reunion money has all been in touring. 

[Dean]

29 minutes ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

How true is the rumor that Axl submitted CD2 but it got rejected? If there’s any merit to it then it makes sense why the trilogy plans fell apart, but knowing this band it’s probably just an excuse.

It was brought up to Fernando, either here or on Reddit, and he was nonethewiser. That doesn't mean to say that it didn't happen, but it was alleged to have been handed to the label to coincide with Reading/Leeds but given there was no time for promotion, they declined. Not sure I buy that myself, but that's how the story went.

[Amir]

Regarding CD2 in 2010, the only thing I know is that when a few of us were getting autographs from Axl outside L'Arc that September, someone asked about a new album, and Axl said "as soon as we figure out what our deal with the label is."

[Alejandro GNR]

Please God let the General have vocals similar to the Angel Down recording 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

I seriously beg for Axl to avoid very high clean vocals like Prostitute, and for him to give them the raspy edge we all want 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[scottish nutter]

no one knows but i find it funny that iv heard this song talked about and its ment to be like doom metal vocals, then iv also heard its like a 3rd axl song after november rain and estranged, funny how the same song can be classed as different things.   i wonder if someone else would ever class it as a rap song next  lol  i have a feeling everyone is going to be disappointed that expects this to be the greatest song ever recorded

[DanteStraviosky]

I'll be more than happy if the actual song turns out to be as good as Evader's version.

[Amir]

Regarding the Estranged trilogy connection, I think that’s a result of Rolling Stone playing fast and loose with Bach’s quote about it being part of a trilogy of songs, or Bach misremembering.

Bach’s actual quote:

 

Quote

I was like, "When is this coming out?" And he said, "2012." I was like, "Dude, you're killin' me!" He goes, "Well, this comes out on the third record. It relates to this song, it's a trilogy, this goes with this lyrically."

So I think it’s more that it relates to two other ChiDem-era songs. What those are and whether we have heard either of them, who knows

Edited August 22, 2023 by Amir

[pentatonicamenor]

On 8/20/2023 at 8:48 PM, jacdaniel said:

He's a legendary guitarist with lots of legendary riffs and solo's. 

The 2 you mention could barely fill a theatre. 

CD stuff is certainly not Slash's style but he has enhanced lots of it already. 

I always have seem the reality of this band like this.

Slash is Guns N' Roses.

For me, in Guns N' Roses has to be Slash's signature sound.

[Ratam]

5 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Nobody knows. There's been only unconfirmed rumours that the second album was rejected by the label in 2010. Fernando flat out denied that rumour.

I don't think the remix album was part of the "trilogy", because Axl mentioned it separately.

Is logic that Fernando denied it rumour. He work to Axl.

[Blackstar]

2 minutes ago, Ratam said:

Is logic that Fernando denied it rumour. He work to Axl.

Yes. But the rumour would be an excuse for Axl for not releasing the second album. Fernando basically said that Axl never submitted a second album to the label.

[2020_Intensions]

1 hour ago, Amir said:

Regarding the Estranged trilogy connection, I think that’s a result of Rolling Stone playing fast and loose with Bach’s quote about it being part of a trilogy of songs, or Bach misremembering.

Bach’s actual quote:

 

So I think it’s more that it relates to two other ChiDem-era songs. What those are and whether we have heard either of them, who knows

I thought Axl himself was quoted saying The General (or a different ChiDem song) was the follow up to Estranged? 

[Blackstar]

6 minutes ago, 2020_Intensions said:

I thought Axl himself was quoted saying The General (or a different ChiDem song) was the follow up to Estranged? 

No, it was Sebastian Bach (and not even a direct quote)

https://www.a-4-d.com/t5730-2008-06-25-rolling-stone-axl-rose-penning-autobiography-sequel-to-estranged

[2020_Intensions]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

No, it was Sebastian Bach (and not even a direct quote)

https://www.a-4-d.com/t5730-2008-06-25-rolling-stone-axl-rose-penning-autobiography-sequel-to-estranged

Oh okay. Regardless, he wouldn't say that if Axl didn't himself say that. I think Bach is a reliable source regarding Axl. He also said 4 albums of finished songs played over 6 hours. I totally forgot about that quote. If that's true, then doesn't that there confirm (Bach as source) that the third part of ChiDem was also finished? 3 albums + remix = 6 hours

[rebeldhipi]

I wonder what happened with Pitman actually, i feel like those tweets came after he was fired.

Maybe it was a Paul Tobias situation where they had a fight and Slash/Duff were like its either us or him.

Or maybe it was purely Axl that got fedup with him after some attitude about doing a reunion instead of a new album.

[Seb91]

18 minutes ago, rebeldhipi said:

I wonder what happened with Pitman actually, i feel like those tweets came after he was fired.

Maybe it was a Paul Tobias situation where they had a fight and Slash/Duff were like its either us or him.

Or maybe it was purely Axl that got fedup with him after some attitude about doing a reunion instead of a new album.

Yeah, it's interesting that he and Axl could have been working on new material in 2014. I also wonder why he got annoyed on social media. I mean, it would make sense if it was after he was fired but then no other remaining GN'R member had to leave. I'd love a full history of GN'R one day - it'd be a great book! 

[GNR4Ever2024]

3 hours ago, pentatonicamenor said:

I always have seem the reality of this band like this.

Slash is Guns N' Roses.

For me, in Guns N' Roses has to be Slash's signature sound.

It's Axl's voice that GNR. You can have Slash's sound but it wont be Guns N' Roses. 

 

[Gordon Comstock]

7 hours ago, DSTK said:

Where ? I've searched the usual haunts ( guitars 101 and so on ) 

 

I'm sure it'll be on those sites eventually but it seems like almost everything is shared first on discord these days...

[Seb91]

Just now, GNR4Ever2024 said:

It's Axl's voice that GNR. You can have Slash's sound but it wont be Guns N' Roses. 

 

When I heard the Village Leaks I was amazed at how they managed to really capture that classic GN'R vibe in Hard Skool and Oklahoma in terms of the riffing. They sound more like classic GN'R rockers than a lot of the VR stuff. 

[Sweersa]

26 minutes ago, rebeldhipi said:

I wonder what happened with Pitman actually, i feel like those tweets came after he was fired.

I have a very loose connection to Pitman. Been tempted to ask about him, but he probably wants to be left alone. You know he has some good shit, both from a material and stories about GN'R standpoint. 

[Sweersa]

3 hours ago, pentatonicamenor said:

I always have seem the reality of this band like this.

Slash is Guns N' Roses.

For me, in Guns N' Roses has to be Slash's signature sound.

I would understand that perspective more if you included Axl with Slash, them as a combo is viewed more as the core of Guns by most, even here.

Me personally, I view Axl Rose and Buckethead with Robin as my preferred Guns N' Roses.

There's probably 1 or 2 (if that) fans who see the core of GN'R as DJ Ashba and Bumblefoot. lol 

On a more serious note, I view Axl as GN'R. Flawed or not, that's my perspective.