THE GENERAL - MONSTERS - Official Discussion Thread. NO LINKS OR ASKING FOR LINKS

[Lelex95]

5 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

That's really not a meaningful distinction. For one thing, variety is variety. An album with all fast rockers and no ballad is lacking variety compared to one with a ballad, an acoustic song, etc.

But really, genres grow out of different song styles. Before doom metal existed, Black Sabbath just down tuned their guitars and played slow, heavy music. That was just a new format of rock/metal. But it eventually became a genre of its own. IMO, as every slight difference is being called its own genre, they're just becoming a way for people to limit their creativity. You see it most acutely in metal. There are so many genres and sub-genres that are so narrowly defined that every band within it sounds the same.

All of that is to say, it's subjective.

I'm not particularly a Metallica fan, but Kill Em All was definitely generic thrash metal. Apparently Burton had to teach the others basic music theory for Ride the Lightning, and the lack of it prior to that shows.

It is a meaningful distinction by any means. 
a format can be common across different genre, knowing a song is a ballad gives you certain informations about it, knowing a song is a punk song gives some completely different one. 
the comment I responded too suggested that guns n roses fans are used to variety of genre cause they are used to variety of formats which makes no sense. 
If you like rock you are used to rockers, ballads and acoustic songs, it doesn’t mean you like punk or nu-metal. 
you conflate format and genre all over in your comment and I’m sorry it’s not subjective. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Lelex95

[DSTK]

3 hours ago, eggers said:

I had a good listen on my B&O headphones and I don't hear anything you people are on about.

Same here...release day & headphones on ..i like it

Idiots, and they must be without pissing people off intentionally...nobody's got a gun to your head, you don't have to listen to it, unless you're as crackers as a reddit user then you'd create a poll..... ' I don't like it but should I listen to it , yes or no' 

I like it, I'll play it...if you don't, skip it 

[Lelex95]

Just now, DSTK said:

Same here...release day & headphones on ..i like it

Idiots, and they must be without pissing people off intentionally...nobody's got a gun to your head, you don't have to listen to it, unless you're as crackers as a reddit user then you'd create a poll..... ' I don't like it but should I listen to it , yes or no' 

I like it, I'll play it...if you don't, skip it 

I like it but if people don’t let them complaint, it’s part of the process too. 

[GNRRHCP98]

As much as I really like TG, truly, we need “Monsters” sooner rather than later.

I think it’s the perfect bridge for the fandom, and honestly would gain a lot more traction on the rock circuit in general (no pun intended )….

I’m almost compelled to reconcile with the idea that they’ve should changed course, and had “Monsters” be the B-side to “Perhaps,” and have it get the singular attention TG is getting right now… naturally, of course, I’m still quite miffed we never got “The General AND Monsters,” which to me is quite the prolific listening experience.

Edited December 12, 2023 by GNRRHCP98

[jamillos]

16 minutes ago, GNRRHCP98 said:

As much as I really like TG, truly, we need “Monsters” sooner rather than later.

I think it’s the perfect bridge for the fandom, and honestly would gain a lot more traction on the rock circuit in general (no pun intended )….

I’m almost compelled to reconcile with the idea that they’ve should changed course, and had “Monsters” be the B-side to “Perhaps,” and have it get the singular attention TG is getting right now… naturally, of course, I’m still quite miffed we never got “The General AND Monsters,” which to me is quite the prolific listening experience.

In that combo though, Monsters would be A-side and Perhaps, the inferior one, the B-side. 

[tommyrai]

Monsters is great, dare I say it has a velvet revolver vibe, from libertad, it does seem odd that they were registered together as it feels it should be one long piece, hopefully they get and write a good gnr album, much like others have said, a TSI 2 would do me

[Spoon87]

So, I just gave it a spin on my 5000 € stereo system, Perhaps sounds pretty good, thick, the bass thumps, the riffs are crisp, Axl sounds cool, good job mixing and mastering.

The General sounds indeed really, really different, it's just so flat and thin, the bass is a bit more prominent than via streaming and the clipping is not as bad, but in general, it just doesn't sound as good, even when you only compare it to the G side.

When Axl goes "my only regret..", you just wish for an instrumental punch in the guts, but it just stays flat. Even the guitars sound thin, whereas you almost feel them when listening to Perhaps.

I won't even go and compare them to other 45 singles I have or even Chinese or heavy kick ass sounding stuff like the Soundgarden Bamotorfinger deluxe edition remaster which makes the walls shake and tremble.

Just another missed opportunity.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Spoon87

[DSTK]

2 hours ago, Lelex95 said:

I like it but if people don’t let them complaint, it’s part of the process too. 

I understand that, but if you don't like it...don't fleet on for 222 pages about it,  it won't get any better on your ears 

100% with you, we're all entitled to voice an opinion, imagine if they release a shit mix of eye on you as the next track lol

[Lelex95]

2 minutes ago, DSTK said:

I understand that, but if you don't like it...don't fleet on for 222 pages about it,  it won't get any better on your ears 

100% with you, we're all entitled to voice an opinion, imagine if they release a shit mix of eye on you as the next track lol

Is not about being entitled, to me is just part of the conversation. 
what do we have forums for? 
its the whole porpoise of being here, negativity is a bit annoying but imagine from the prospective of somebody that finds it awful and embarrassing, they might find your positivity annoying. They might think its self deceit and delusion. 

[DSTK]

1 hour ago, Lelex95 said:

Is not about being entitled, to me is just part of the conversation. 
what do we have forums for? 
its the whole porpoise of being here, negativity is a bit annoying but imagine from the prospective of somebody that finds it awful and embarrassing, they might find your positivity annoying. They might think its self deceit and delusion. 

Again, some just come here & other forums just to moan & cry and be so negative. I've said I like the general & got battered over it & told its turd....some just don't think anyones opinion counts but their own 

There's worse forums than here btw

[colonizedmind]

3 hours ago, tommyrai said:

Monsters is great, dare I say it has a velvet revolver vibe, from libertad, it does seem odd that they were registered together as it feels it should be one long piece, hopefully they get and write a good gnr album, much like others have said, a TSI 2 would do me

Yes yes, it's very VR....almost like an outtake from 2007 era with Axl 👍

[Rindmelon]

The bass on Monsters does have slither vibes

[MJRoses23]

16 hours ago, colonizedmind said:

I'm finding it difficult to critically process "The General" and be pragmatic about it's merits and flaws...

Why?

For many reasons -I think it's a small miracle we have this song in our collection now and it sits on Guns official channels. It does show that the Axl we've commented on and deduced from the last year or so, is an Axl in quite an obviously different mental state and place than perhaps forever. His entire demeanor has shifted/altered, or rather gone back to the more confident times but with a new twist of modesty and gratitude. He total showed up Slash and Duff and the rest (whom normally are known as quite fan friendly) over the years worth of touring, he stopped many more times to talk with fans, sign shit and take a pouty photo or two...he even looked genuinely moved at a woman saying they named their son, Axl, after him and went in for hugs to name a few examples. His stage presence is at an older age peak, his movement was noticeably less ridged and telegraphed this year...Yes he was in better shape but he seemed more at ease and chill with himself and his position, which came through in his stage chats and banter which has been minimal 2016-22 until this year...

My point to this is....without his current mentality and mindset, I really don't think General gets released otherwise. Listening to it time and time again, reading the lyrics...WOW, it's such difficult and touchy subject and ultimately something, perhaps more than anything he's actually written, really close to the bone. It's obvious this part of his formative years has gone to shape the majority of his life (I'm sure if we get his book it will feature heavily, he often said when crazy shit happened, he had reasons...and one day he'd tell us, why this behaviour)..how he didn't easily trust folk and how loyality became THEE most important thing for Axl, it's quite clear, how his errors and mistakes have occured, manifesting from his own experiences and misfortune of having an abusive dick in the household. Clearly this fucked him up for longer than he'd care to admit...not one to regret, but he regrets "not taking the time to forget" (move forward with help)

Knowing how sensitive he is, firing Go to allow the world to hear THIS? Something that perhaps was more therapy for him to write and record, more than a song he planned at the time for us ...Is the real headline here...

Of course I understand our endless debates about the clipping, about our mismanaged expectations of what the song was, about our hyperbole, about everything really...we all do it. We've had 15+ years...but I can't do it now... just can't objectively criticise a piece, that is about such a personal thing...it kinda doesn't matter, its flaws may only add to what the whole picture is anyway...

I genuinely think it's a small miracle this is out and he gave the ok...

and in it's own little way, that's the biggest statement and takeaway from it all....

Man....just absolutely spot on. 

[Sweersa]

1 hour ago, Rindmelon said:

The bass on Monsters does have slither vibes

I agree. Duff did great on that. How it kicks in with the Axl harmonizing with the orchestra background in the beginning, one hell of a way to start a song. The biggest gripe of the CD era songs for me (the 2008 album, rather was the lack of bass, it was buried too much, Tommy deserved to be featured more.)

All it needs (besides Buckethead and/or Robin and the original mix) is for it to be properly mixed and mastered, how they did Perhaps was good. They need to do more of that with these songs.

Hard Skool and The General are examples of piss poor production. Coming from the 2008 album, to that, words can't describe...

[StrangerInThisTown]

A pretty positive reaction to The General (by a girl listener, no less)

 

Honestly what I can say for me now, this song is so far out musically and thematically, it's really no surprise it doesn't appeal to a large part of GNRs fanbase. The section of the fanbase that appreciates a deep cut dark song like Coma must already be like only half of them, and this song is even a step darker than that. It would definitely not get the flack like it is currently getting exposed as a standalone song, if it was where it should belong and have been released and placed, track 7-8 of 10 on an album, surrounded by more accessible tracks.

I think it makes sense to say you'd listen to it for the same reason you'd go see a horror film. It's not exactly a "fun" time, yet we do it to feel certain emotions, because we just want to. This is Axl's pain as a child set to music, it is supposed to sound somewhat ugly, and that's where a lot of people check out.

Edited December 12, 2023 by StrangerInThisTown

[drlaban]

7 hours ago, GNRRHCP98 said:

As much as I really like TG, truly, we need “Monsters” sooner rather than later.

I think it’s the perfect bridge for the fandom, and honestly would gain a lot more traction on the rock circuit in general (no pun intended )….

I’m almost compelled to reconcile with the idea that they’ve should changed course, and had “Monsters” be the B-side to “Perhaps,” and have it get the singular attention TG is getting right now… naturally, of course, I’m still quite miffed we never got “The General AND Monsters,” which to me is quite the prolific listening experience.

If Monsters is Better than The General, Monsters should be an A-side.

[Zeppelin]

18 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

A positive reaction to The General (by a girl listener, no less)

 

Honestly what I can say for me now, this song is so far out musically and thematically, it's really no surprise it doesn't appeal to a large part of GNRs fanbase. The section of the fanbase that appreciates a deep cut dark song like Coma must already be like only half of them, and this song is even a step darker than that. It would definitely not get the flack like it is currently getting exposed as a standalone song, if it was where it should belong and have been released and placed, track 7-8 of 10 on an album, surrounded by more accessible tracks.

I think it makes sense to say you'd listen to it for the same reason you'd go see a horror film. It's not exactly a "fun" time, yet we do it to feel certain emotions, because we just want to. This is Axl's pain as a child set to music, it is supposed to sound somewhat ugly, and that's where a lot of people check out.

I don't know. Coma, to me, is both fun and dark. It's a behemoth of a song that feels like a roller coaster set to music. It takes you everywhere and it's almost dizzying how much is going on with that song. It also has good production, insanely good leads, great vocals, etc.

The General is really none of that. It's dark in subject matter, but it doesn't take you anywhere musically, the production is cheeks, the leads are buried to the point where you need a detective to find them, and it's repetitive. I think The General is just dull. It has some interesting ideas, that's for sure. But none of them are executed particularly well.

I see where you're coming from with this, but I don't think it's that black-and-white.

[fabrph5]

2 hours ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

A pretty positive reaction to The General (by a girl listener, no less)

 

Honestly what I can say for me now, this song is so far out musically and thematically, it's really no surprise it doesn't appeal to a large part of GNRs fanbase. The section of the fanbase that appreciates a deep cut dark song like Coma must already be like only half of them, and this song is even a step darker than that. It would definitely not get the flack like it is currently getting exposed as a standalone song, if it was where it should belong and have been released and placed, track 7-8 of 10 on an album, surrounded by more accessible tracks.

I think it makes sense to say you'd listen to it for the same reason you'd go see a horror film. It's not exactly a "fun" time, yet we do it to feel certain emotions, because we just want to. This is Axl's pain as a child set to music, it is supposed to sound somewhat ugly, and that's where a lot of people check out.

Please dont put Coma and this song is the same sentence.  One is a masterpiece that almost every GnR fan likes, and the other, well......

Edited December 12, 2023 by fabrph5

[StrangerInThisTown]

32 minutes ago, Zeppelin said:

I don't know. Coma, to me, is both fun and dark. It's a behemoth of a song that feels like a roller coaster set to music. It takes you everywhere and it's almost dizzying how much is going on with that song. It also has good production, insanely good leads, great vocals, etc.

The General is really none of that. It's dark in subject matter, but it doesn't take you anywhere musically, the production is cheeks, the leads are buried to the point where you need a detective to find them, and it's repetitive. I think The General is just dull. It has some interesting ideas, that's for sure. But none of them are executed particularly well.

I see where you're coming from with this, but I don't think it's that black-and-white.

I'm not sure I can really ever derive "fun" from listening to a song about someone being in pain. But I agree what makes Coma work is the sheer scope of the musical ambition that they pull off, and you appreciate that when listening to it. The General doesn't have any of that. They somehow really missed the mark in the arrangement, working in the orchestra in more, giving it a longer intro like the concert one.

It's just basic, and that's why it doesn't work like Coma does. Which is insane considering how long Axl sat on this song, and I guess Slash and Duff didn't care enough to seriously rework the song (or Axl didn't want that).

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by StrangerInThisTown

[Sweersa]

The hold music I'm hearing now waiting for Lenovo support is better than The General instrumentally. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Sweersa

[DeNfr]

[Tyson]

The more I listen to it, the more I like it...BUT, the overly distorted lyrics make it hard to hear the powerful, emotionally resonante lyrics.  An unforced error.  And a killer Slash guitar solo mid song could have taken this to another level. I repeat myself, but my own update.  It is growing on me and kinda stuck in my head.  Also, different speakers offer a noticeably different listening experience.  

 

On another note: Anyone have OFFICIAL lyrics to this song?  "My only regret is that I never took the time to forget/forgive?!?!"

Edited December 12, 2023 by Tyson

[Nick85]

11 minutes ago, Tyson said:

The more I listen to it, the more I like it...BUT, the overly distorted lyrics make it hard to hear the powerful, emotionally resonante lyrics.  An unforced error.  And a killer Slash guitar solo mid song could have taken this to another level. I repeat myself, but my own update.  It is growing on me and kinda stuck in my head.  Also, different speakers offer a noticeably different listening experience.  

 

On another note: Anyone have OFFICIAL lyrics to this song?  "My only regret is that I never took the time to forget/forgive?!?!"

Yeah, I’m still unclear about a lot of the lyrics. Wish a lyric video accompanied it.

[DTV88]

13 minutes ago, Tyson said:

The more I listen to it, the more I like it...BUT, the overly distorted lyrics make it hard to hear the powerful, emotionally resonante lyrics.  An unforced error.  And a killer Slash guitar solo mid song could have taken this to another level. I repeat myself, but my own update.  It is growing on me and kinda stuck in my head.  Also, different speakers offer a noticeably different listening experience.  

 

On another note: Anyone have OFFICIAL lyrics to this song?  "My only regret is that I never took the time to forget/forgive?!?!"

 

1 minute ago, Nick85 said:

Yeah, I’m still unclear about a lot of the lyrics. Wish a lyric video accompanied it.

The lyrics from Apple Music are on page 192 or so in this thread or just Google the Apple lyrics. I think they’re as official as we’re getting any time soon. 

[GnR Chris]

I said it earlier in the thread, but I’m sort of done harping on what I wish they did with “The General” versus just enjoying the song for what it is. Obviously, that doesn’t mean people have to pretend to like it. I dig it.
 

Mostly, I wish this band would keep tracks like “The General” and “Absurd” for a full-length album or for a bonus disc EP to an accompanying album. They’d do themselves more favors releasing groovier, poppier songs that are more palatable for the majority of the fan base. “Perhaps” was pretty well received, with the harshest criticism probably being that it’s an “old Axl song.” Or from people who are in love with the locker leak. “Hard Skool” sounds like Guns N’ Roses.

Or, you know … maybe if there was more cohesion with their releases. The weirder or experimental stuff can be the B sides., released SAME TIME as the “lead” single. “The General” as a B side to “Monsters.” “Hard Skool” as a B side to “Perhaps.” “Absurd” as a B side to “Atlas Shrugged.”