Dave Abbruzzese says he bowed out of NuGnR "for the sake of Axl's ability to continue to be a creative force"

[evilfacelessturtle]

16 hours ago, lunastar said:

I think the talent managers brought them all together and just waited for them to become friends, and then the myths about what a fun and friendly band they were were fixed in interviews and then in autobiographies. By the way, one of the talent managers, Vicky Hamilton, said that Axl threatened her. That's not why he threatened her so that she wouldn't blab about how it really was? 

In addition, someone in one of the biographies (I don't remember who wrote, maybe Steven Davis or maybe Razcue) mentioned that Duff was brought to GNR by a talent manager. I think the name Vicky Hamilton was mentioned. 

It was from the very beginning. The usual way to survive and build a career. Nothing to condemn. Judging by the stories of participants in the Los Angeles scene and near it, there were many children of rich parents and parents with musical connections among the musicians in the city. Izzy led the line of acquaintance with them. Chris Webber is the son of wealthy parents, Tracii Guns and Slash are the children of well-connected parents. I think at some point (if we remember, Izzy took Axl away from Rapidfire), they both realized that without influential friends they would not advance. They were ready for the marketing deal mentally. And I think Slash and his parents were actively involved in this deal (Axl and Izzy offer themselves as a tandem of creators, authors (songs, riffs and possibly solos) Slash offers his connections. 

In my opinion, the idea of a marketing project is the missing puzzle to understand what is happening with the band now and especially the last 8 years, no matter how bitter the truth may be. They are used to making deals, acting rationally, and not going the romantic creative way of creating a work of art together. The fact is that the deal between Axl/Izzy and Slash completed (circa 1991). For a new collaboration, they need a new foundation, in this case it's only money. In the classic line-up, the author of the riffs and songs was Izzy/Axl and the fact that they refused to reunite Izzy (songwriter) suggests that writing an album with original music was not from the beginning part of the reunion deal. 

I guess Dave's right.

 

Let's see, post-1991, Izzy has written 68 songs which failed to make any impact whatsoever, and Axl has written 14 (many written primarily by bandmates though), while Slash has written 119 songs, a platinum album and even had mainstream chart crossover success.

It's honestly hilarious at this point to see people try to suggest Izzy was the secret writing genius when it's clear that once they all broke apart, Slash and Axl had the best quality material. Axl just obviously in vastly lower quantity.

[Blackstar]

24 minutes ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

Let's see, post-1991, Izzy has written 68 songs which failed to make any impact whatsoever, and Axl has written 14 (many written primarily by bandmates though), while Slash has written 119 songs, a platinum album and even had mainstream chart crossover success.

It's honestly hilarious at this point to see people try to suggest Izzy was the secret writing genius when it's clear that once they all broke apart, Slash and Axl had the best quality material. Axl just obviously in vastly lower quantity.

It can be argued, though, that Izzy did zero promotion and minimal touring, many of his albums were not even released globally at the time, and, in addition to that, he sang his songs himself. Slash, on the other hand, promoted the hell out of his projects and worked hard to establish his brand in various ways, like by collaborating with big names, etc. Axl didn't do much promotion, but he had the name and was out there touring. So it's not a fair comparison as far as impact and success, and the quality is subjective.

[Yugoss88]

Being truthfull to yourself…

I dont know but if you have let’s say a friend, and you know what is happening “behind the scene”, and you want to do what is right, I would tell that friend what is going on, I wouldnt back down

So Dave said for the Axl’s creativity, he kept silent…

i dont know, maybe I am old school but it seems to me that moral compass lots it’s way long time ago…

I would tell to my friend what is happening and if my friend understands it in any way, wrong or right, I would know that I have done it right and what consequence it would be, time would tell… it could be better or maybe not, but I have done it the way it should be

it is just the matter can you handle the truth or not

Axl is not like a, lets say God or some super Being above all of us, you or me, but truth is hard, harsh and liberating, so you might as well accept the things what they are, it is just my opinion and how I deal with the truth

 

and in this case, Dave acted like a pussy, IMO humble opinion

[lunastar]

13 часов назад, evilfacelessturtle сказал:

Посмотрим, после 1991 года Иззи написал 68 песен, которые не отличались ничем, а Эксл написал 14 (хотя многие из них были написаны в основном коллегами по группе), в то время как Слэш написал 119 песен, платиновый альбом и даже попал в мейнстримовые. чарты. успех.

Честно говоря, сейчас забавно видеть, как люди пытаются предположить, что Иззи был тайным писательским гением, хотя ясно, что, как только все распались, у Слэша и Эксла они были материалом очень высокого качества. Просто Эксл, очевидно, в гораздо меньшем количестве .

Просто для уточнения, а не для обсуждения. Иззи написал 120 песен (109 сольных и 11 из альбома Ju Ju Hounds), плюс еще три песни были написаны в соавторстве с Даффом МакКаганом.

Edited March 17 by lunastar

[evilfacelessturtle]

20 hours ago, Blackstar said:

It can be argued, though, that Izzy did zero promotion and minimal touring, many of his albums were not even released globally at the time, and, in addition to that, he sang his songs himself. Slash, on the other hand, promoted the hell out of his projects and worked hard to establish his brand in various ways, like by collaborating with big names, etc. Axl didn't do much promotion, but he had the name and was out there touring. So it's not a fair comparison as far as impact and success, and the quality is subjective.

That varies quite a bit by the album. 5 O Clock Somewhere got very little promotion by Geffen and still sold a million copies. I will grant that Contraband benefitted from promotion and the supergroup hype.

But of course, success is not a stand in for quality. I think anyone being honest will admit that Slash had more original riff ideas in his music than Izzy's simplistic chord progressions that have all been done before countless times. Someone can prefer simple chord progressions, but they have to admit Slash's ideas were more original, and in keeping with the type of riffs that made GNR famous. The Snakepit albums in particular have gotten more and more appreciation over the years despite their lack of promotion. Ain't Life Grand in particular, being released by a small label which went out of business just a few years later. While Izzy's name had been built up significantly in the past 10-20 years as this mythical figure, none of his actual music outside Guns seems to get mentioned alongside that.

[evilfacelessturtle]

7 hours ago, lunastar said:

Just for clarification, not for discussion. Izzy wrote 120 songs (109 solo and 11 from the Ju Ju Hounds album), plus three more songs co-written by Duff McKagan.

I went through his albums and counted only the original songs written by Izzy. You are counting covers and b-sides. I did the same for Slash, no covers or b-sides were counted.

[KeyserSoze]

On 3/17/2024 at 7:21 PM, evilfacelessturtle said:

That varies quite a bit by the album. 5 O Clock Somewhere got very little promotion by Geffen and still sold a million copies. I will grant that Contraband benefitted from promotion and the supergroup hype.

But of course, success is not a stand in for quality. I think anyone being honest will admit that Slash had more original riff ideas in his music than Izzy's simplistic chord progressions that have all been done before countless times. Someone can prefer simple chord progressions, but they have to admit Slash's ideas were more original, and in keeping with the type of riffs that made GNR famous. The Snakepit albums in particular have gotten more and more appreciation over the years despite their lack of promotion. Ain't Life Grand in particular, being released by a small label which went out of business just a few years later. While Izzy's name had been built up significantly in the past 10-20 years as this mythical figure, none of his actual music outside Guns seems to get mentioned alongside that.

This is such a crazy take to me. 

Izzy also hasn't put out a record in a non radio dominated era. If Izzy actually wanted to play and had management that knew how to rebrand him into what he always wanted to be: a rolling stone-cowboy esque songwriter and he accepted his fate and joined one of these Nashville based record labels, i'd bet he'd find himself pretty popular with a potential top 200 album entry. 

Especially if it was a full on country record. 

Country music is the only music that still sells unit after unit of PHYSICAL copies or digital downloads of records, which count as 1 whole sale of a record, as compared to a stream thats like 0.009% of a sale or something stupid like that. Izzy is in his "Prairie Wind" era of his career, and that album debuted at #11 on the 200 as Neil Youngs 26th Studio album 

[lunastar]

57 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

Для меня это такой сумасшедший ход. 

Иззи также не выпускал пластинок в эпоху, когда радио не доминировало. Если бы Иззи действительно хотел играть и у него был менеджмент, который знал, как сделать его тем, кем он всегда хотел быть: автором песен в стиле перекати-ковбоя, и он смирился со своей судьбой и присоединился к одному из этих звукозаписывающих лейблов в Нэшвилле, я бы поспорил, что он окажется довольно популярным и потенциально попадет в топ-200 альбомов. 

Особенно, если это был полноценный кантри-альбом. 

Кантри-музыка - единственная музыка, которая до сих пор продается единицей за единицей ФИЗИЧЕСКИХ копий или цифровых загрузок пластинок, что считается за одну полную продажу пластинки, по сравнению с потоком, который составляет примерно 0,009% от продажи или что-то в этом роде. Иззи находится на этапе своей карьеры "Prairie Wind", и этот альбом дебютировал на 11 месте в рейтинге 200 как 26-й студийный альбом Нила Янга. 

Of course, it is not very correct to generalize, but there is an opinion about musicians that they are vulnerable and sensitive people, someone should help them. Usually, a strong-willed woman stands behind a successful musician, for example, Sharon Osbourne, Slash had Perla, and Fortus's wife is a lawyer  who defends his interests. Izzy did not choose/find such a woman/wife. Who does he live with there? some former model who, until recently, rented out the ranch. Who was doing it at all? In general, he was unlucky with a woman/partner. And so, yes, with the right management and moral support, he would have had a very successful career.

[Free Bird]

I think Izzy makes exactly what he wants to do. He’s smart enough and he was very well aware of what life he wanted to live. He wouldn’t have left GNR in the first place if he wanted the fame. 

[evilfacelessturtle]

15 hours ago, KeyserSoze said:

This is such a crazy take to me. 

Izzy also hasn't put out a record in a non radio dominated era. If Izzy actually wanted to play and had management that knew how to rebrand him into what he always wanted to be: a rolling stone-cowboy esque songwriter and he accepted his fate and joined one of these Nashville based record labels, i'd bet he'd find himself pretty popular with a potential top 200 album entry. 

Especially if it was a full on country record. 

Country music is the only music that still sells unit after unit of PHYSICAL copies or digital downloads of records, which count as 1 whole sale of a record, as compared to a stream thats like 0.009% of a sale or something stupid like that. Izzy is in his "Prairie Wind" era of his career, and that album debuted at #11 on the 200 as Neil Youngs 26th Studio album 

Izzy isn't a country artist and his songs are not poppy like the country that you're talking about.

You tell me which of his songs had mainstream chart potential.

Snakepit songs are hitting several million views on Youtube and several million streams on Spotify in an era where pop country and mumble rap are the popular genres, despite both of those albums receiving little to no promotion by their labels. Nothing is stopping Izzy's music from being appreciated anymore. It's not hidden in the back of a hole in the wall record store in Indiana, it's all available to anyone who wants to hear it online. The reality is that nobody cares because we've all heard I-IV-V chord progressions a million times and done with more original arrangements and vocal melodies. His whole mystique is supposed to be his songwriting brilliance, and yet that's exactly what is most lacking from his own material. Where are the unique ideas like the YCBM riff in his solo material? I'm not asking for rock riffs, just anything musically interesting and unique.

[evilfacelessturtle]

10 hours ago, Free Bird said:

I think Izzy makes exactly what he wants to do. He’s smart enough and he was very well aware of what life he wanted to live. He wouldn’t have left GNR in the first place if he wanted the fame. 

True, but to an extent fame is unavoidable if your songs really make an impact, look at Kurt Cobain.

[Tom2112]

On 3/18/2024 at 12:21 AM, evilfacelessturtle said:

That varies quite a bit by the album. 5 O Clock Somewhere got very little promotion by Geffen and still sold a million copies. I will grant that Contraband benefitted from promotion and the supergroup hype.

But of course, success is not a stand in for quality. I think anyone being honest will admit that Slash had more original riff ideas in his music than Izzy's simplistic chord progressions that have all been done before countless times. Someone can prefer simple chord progressions, but they have to admit Slash's ideas were more original, and in keeping with the type of riffs that made GNR famous. The Snakepit albums in particular have gotten more and more appreciation over the years despite their lack of promotion. Ain't Life Grand in particular, being released by a small label which went out of business just a few years later. While Izzy's name had been built up significantly in the past 10-20 years as this mythical figure, none of his actual music outside Guns seems to get mentioned alongside that.

You cannot compare. 

First off this thing that Slash's material is more original? I don't agree. Bot saying Izzy's solo stuff is either though. They both have very obvious influence.

Secondly as pointed by others Izzy's just releases his albums, no tour no promotion. So obviously you don't hear about those records. I also agree that IF had decided to release music and grab himself a business team he could be playing to reasonably sized rooms and selling a lot more albums. His thought process obviously doesn't factor that stuff though. Slash on the other hand does factor this so he has a big team working for him = more well known solo material. If Izzy ever decides to get in the ring then we can make a judgement, but had Slash decided to release the way Izzy did with zero promotion and touring nobody would know his stuff either 

[Rovim]

4 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

Izzy isn't a country artist and his songs are not poppy like the country that you're talking about.

You tell me which of his songs had mainstream chart potential.

Snakepit songs are hitting several million views on Youtube and several million streams on Spotify in an era where pop country and mumble rap are the popular genres, despite both of those albums receiving little to no promotion by their labels. Nothing is stopping Izzy's music from being appreciated anymore. It's not hidden in the back of a hole in the wall record store in Indiana, it's all available to anyone who wants to hear it online. The reality is that nobody cares because we've all heard I-IV-V chord progressions a million times and done with more original arrangements and vocal melodies. His whole mystique is supposed to be his songwriting brilliance, and yet that's exactly what is most lacking from his own material. Where are the unique ideas like the YCBM riff in his solo material? I'm not asking for rock riffs, just anything musically interesting and unique.

you don't get it. Izzy's influence in rooted in the chuck berry rock n' roll/bluesy thing and it's all there, the songs are there, the way Izzy paints a picture with his music it's all there, his slice of Gn'R is there as well. it's kinda like saying all the old blues records sounds the same, every chuck berry riff sounds the same, etc.

it could take a while to get it cause it's not as polished as Gn'R or has any of the other band members, but the foundation is there and I think the music is great. Izzy already did his job in the studio, creating a wonderful catalog of 11 albums of quality shit imo, but it's old school stuff, it's not as hard rock or as modern as Slash, it's way more rootsy rock n' roll and that's not for everyone. Slash is more mainstream with riffs that grabs you and very unique leads and his big sound. Izzy is not that.

edit: and it's not like there aren't cool Izzy riffs in his solo recrords that also grab you, but it's more of a Stonesy kind of a thing, more about the song and the vibe only Izzy can create. If you're not into that, and you just want the more Gn'R thing when Izzy was a part of a band in his younger days, you won't find that here where he's just doing his own thing, and has the freedom to just express himself in a more exact way.

Edited April 11 by Rovim

[2020_Intensions]

On 3/16/2024 at 11:58 PM, Blackstar said:

It can be argued, though, that Izzy did zero promotion and minimal touring, many of his albums were not even released globally at the time, and, in addition to that, he sang his songs himself. Slash, on the other hand, promoted the hell out of his projects and worked hard to establish his brand in various ways, like by collaborating with big names, etc. Axl didn't do much promotion, but he had the name and was out there touring. So it's not a fair comparison as far as impact and success, and the quality is subjective.

If released & promoted traditionally, Izzy's work would definitely be more known. There's a lot of good stuff in those albums. River, start to finish, is fantastic. 

[2020_Intensions]

On 3/17/2024 at 8:21 PM, evilfacelessturtle said:

That varies quite a bit by the album. 5 O Clock Somewhere got very little promotion by Geffen and still sold a million copies. I will grant that Contraband benefitted from promotion and the supergroup hype.

But of course, success is not a stand in for quality. I think anyone being honest will admit that Slash had more original riff ideas in his music than Izzy's simplistic chord progressions that have all been done before countless times. Someone can prefer simple chord progressions, but they have to admit Slash's ideas were more original, and in keeping with the type of riffs that made GNR famous. The Snakepit albums in particular have gotten more and more appreciation over the years despite their lack of promotion. Ain't Life Grand in particular, being released by a small label which went out of business just a few years later. While Izzy's name had been built up significantly in the past 10-20 years as this mythical figure, none of his actual music outside Guns seems to get mentioned alongside that.

There are more Izzy songs I'll listen to over Slash songs. Slash's two solo albums have some good stuff, but Izzy's songs are just more raw and heartfelt. I recently listened to 5 O' Clock and Aint Life Grand and for the most part it was meh. Izzy's albums are more enjoyable.

[Rovim]

8 minutes ago, 2020_Intensions said:

If released & promoted traditionally, Izzy's work would definitely be more known. There's a lot of good stuff in those albums. River, start to finish, is fantastic. 

yeah how can you listen to River and call it generic or uninspired and there's good stuff on every Izzy record even if not every album is as accesible as Juju and River.

Edited April 11 by Rovim

[2020_Intensions]

1 minute ago, Rovim said:

yeah how can you listen to River and call it generic or uninspired and there's good stuff on every Izzy record even if not every album is as accesible as Juju and River.

When I first started listening to Izzy's stuff, there were many moments where I thought "Man if Axl sang on this, and Slash added some sleazy riffs, this would be a GnR song" 

[Rovim]

Just now, 2020_Intensions said:

When I first started listening to Izzy's stuff, there were many moments where I thought "Man if Axl sang on this, and Slash added some sleazy riffs, this would be a GnR song" 

and in many cases I'd say that's true, but it doesn't need anything else. it has its own function when I listen to his solo records, but I agree, so many ideas would probably turn into huge tunes with Axl, Slash, and Duff input or with the Gn'R polish there was a lot of potential there.

it's kinda what they did with half of Appetite. relied on Izzy's brilliance to lay the foundation for their sound.

[2020_Intensions]

Just now, Rovim said:

and in many cases I'd say that's true, but it doesn't need anything else. it has its own function when I listen to his solo records, but I agree, so many ideas would probably turn into huge tunes with Axl, Slash, and Duff input or with the Gn'R polish there was a lot of potential there.

it's kinda what they did with half of Appetite. relied on Izzy's brilliance to lay the foundation for their sound.

Yeah, and I agree it doesn't need anything else. I think his songs the way they are are just fine. But many are, and I dont mean this in a negative way, basic. And with Axl & Slash, or even just Axl, these songs could be, sonically, bigger. An example: Spazed. With Axl on vocals, I feel this song would automatically be better.

[Rovim]

1 minute ago, 2020_Intensions said:

Yeah, and I agree it doesn't need anything else. I think his songs the way they are are just fine. But many are, and I dont mean this in a negative way, basic. And with Axl & Slash, or even just Axl, these songs could be, sonically, bigger. An example: Spazed. With Axl on vocals, I feel this song would automatically be better.

yes, it is simple old school hard rock and rock n' roll with a very direct approach. sounds like Izzy to me. I like how there are still some other influences sometimes that keep it interesting. very similar to Keith.

[Free Bird]

To me it’s in the middle. I wouldn’t say Izzy’s not an important GNR member nor that he’s the most important one. I think he’s as important as Axl and Slash. Pulling one of‘em out of the formula and you got… less. 
Having said that, his solo music is not as inspiring to me as the music the other two are responsible for. I don’t like everything on CD but its heights are definitely untouchable by Izzy’s material and so are Slash’s. Izzy has some cool songs but all in all they sound like rough demos to me. Like, probably what they are, unfinished GNR songs that lack Axl and Slash.

Edited April 11 by Free Bird

[Rovim]

4 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

To me it’s in the middle. I wouldn’t say Izzy’s not an important GNR member nor that he’s the most important one. I think he’s as important as Axl and Slash. Pulling one of‘em out of the formula and you got… less. 
Having said that, his solo music is not as inspiring to me as the music the other two are responsible for. I don’t like everything on CD but its heights are definitely untouchable by Izzy’s material and so are Slash’s. Izzy has some cool songs but all in all they sound like rough demos to me. Like, probably what they are, unfinished GNR songs that lack Axl and Slash.

I get what you're saying, it depends on what elements in Gn'R's music you find more relatable and in what quantity. I think for some people some elements of the music are essential for their enjoyment and what is similar with Axl and Slash is that their music is more polished and bigger sounding compared to Izzy's. Duff's music is also more polished.

not for everyone, but I like that at least one of them went with the more rough approach cause personally I like the musical outcome, without the rough approach it would be less Izzy and more in line with how Gn'R used to do things and I think a lot of people want that.

[willl]

1 hour ago, 2020_Intensions said:

When I first started listening to Izzy's stuff, there were many moments where I thought "Man if Axl sang on this, and Slash added some sleazy riffs, this would be a GnR song" 

Sounds like a job for A.I.  Wouldn't mind hearing some Izzy tracks with (fake) Axl on them if anyone out there is clever enough to do that shit. I did watch a video on how to do it a while ago but don't have the time to learn 

[El Guapo]

This Abruzze guy is nothing but trouble, oh boy! 

[evilfacelessturtle]

23 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

You cannot compare. 

First off this thing that Slash's material is more original? I don't agree. Bot saying Izzy's solo stuff is either though. They both have very obvious influence.

Secondly as pointed by others Izzy's just releases his albums, no tour no promotion. So obviously you don't hear about those records. I also agree that IF had decided to release music and grab himself a business team he could be playing to reasonably sized rooms and selling a lot more albums. His thought process obviously doesn't factor that stuff though. Slash on the other hand does factor this so he has a big team working for him = more well known solo material. If Izzy ever decides to get in the ring then we can make a judgement, but had Slash decided to release the way Izzy did with zero promotion and touring nobody would know his stuff either 

I mean we can get into music theory if you want to. Slash's ideas are absolutely more original. Never mind riffs like Anastasia which are unlike anything anyone else has ever written, there is also a very diverse array of styles he's capable of, from sweet acoustic ballads (Something About Your Love) to funk-rock (Been There lately) to grand epics (Wicked Stone) to heavy metal (Beneath the Savage Sun) to creepy, grinding doom grunge (Lower) and much more.

Again, I'm not trying to make this about popularity. But with all the people singing Izzy's praises any time the reunion is brought up, it's awfully strange that those same people are apparently not listening to Izzy's solo music.