Dave Abbruzzese says he bowed out of NuGnR "for the sake of Axl's ability to continue to be a creative force"

[KeyserSoze]

12 hours ago, ©GnrPersia said:

And why would you assume that's what everyone does in your hypothetical scenario?

Very dark world view.

I provided facts in a follow up post for why Dave might not be the most credible source and why i believe that hypothetical scenario, but yet somehow it taints my WHOLE worldview based off of one opinion i've formed on ONE person who just happened to be associated with two of my favorite bands? 

Okay internet guru, thanks for the diagnosis!

I'll go watch Dave A's cover of Pearl Jam's "Breath" that he did last year, ya know 29 years after he got kicked out of PJ because he's done soooooooooooooooo much with his credibility since that time. 

Jesus. 

Edited January 10 by KeyserSoze

[Jakey Styley]

This is super interesting. Has anyone else ever said it so on-the-nose besides Axl? It's actually so on the nose that it makes me doubt that Dave's account is the full truth.

[-W.A.R-]

That may have been Doug's angle but the label isn't investing 15 million in an album they hope fails (or even stall it for so long on the off chance he reunites with Slash).

It would have made far more sense to release it in 2001 and hope Axl got whatever out of his system.

Edited January 11 by -W.A.R-

[jamillos]

If that's true, he absolutely should have told Axl about his label stabbing him in the back. 

Anyway, a few kilos of salt need to be taken here. Also, Axl was a real wacko indeed. 

[jimisbatman]

Definitely the wrong thread, but any interviews w/trent rezner talking about his time in GNR camp? What do we know about it? 

[Tom2112]

On 1/10/2024 at 12:25 PM, Spoon87 said:

I always thought of him as more of a show-off that anything else. Sure, good drummer, but in every interview I've read or seen he comes across as a guy who likes to talk too much.

Are you talking about Matt or Steven?

[Oliver77]

9 hours ago, jimisbatman said:

Definitely the wrong thread, but any interviews w/trent rezner talking about his time in GNR camp? What do we know about it? 

Reznor never worked with GNR.

[Sweersa]

1 hour ago, Oliver77 said:

Reznor never worked with GNR.

Have you listened to P.R.L.?

Just kidding. I think Axl (or whomever) was heavily inspired by NIN when that tune was created. 

[evilfacelessturtle]

On 1/9/2024 at 10:50 PM, W. Axl Kev said:

In what world would a record company, who's primary focus is to make money, allow the funding and failure of an act to the detriment of their reputation just to get a prior member in? 

None of the Beatles' former studios even tried stuff like that. Sounds entirely invented.

This. Since when do record companies appreciate what specific members bring to the table in a band? They still had the name GNR and that's all they cared about. Just look at how often corporate executives cheapen a product to hell and ruin it, but people keep buying them because of the name. Suits don't appreciate quality.

[Blackstar]

Let's not forget that this was in 1997. Things were still fluid about GN'R; Duff was still in the band and Slash, in interviews, didn't rule out the possibility of returning.

So it would have been kind of logical for management and the label to think that it was just a temporary power play and stubbornness driven phase on Axl's part which would go nowhere, and since Axl couldn't be talked out of it, they would just let him try to do his thing and then Slash would be back - Duff probably expected/hoped for the same thing, too and that's why he stuck around for a while after Slash left. That doesn't mean that there was an elaborate "plan" for Axl to fail (it would have been too early for that anyway). It was probably just a very likely outcome in their minds.

Also Geffen had not been absorbed by Interscope yet (that would happen next year and lead to Slash and Duff being dropped from the label as solo artists), so the label personnel was different.

Edited January 14 by Blackstar

[Mysteron]

At all points in time, everything was about getting Slash back and Duff, and whoever else, because that's where the money was and still is, whatever path was needed.

If you noticed with the Axl chats, there was that big spiel at the end where he went on about running GN'R himself and the pressure that came with it. It'd be interesting to hear from Axl in the future about it all

[GnR Chris]

On 1/9/2024 at 5:31 PM, Blackstar said:

Two earlier interviews with Dave talking about Axl/GN'R (for those who haven't watched/read them):

https://www.a-4-d.com/t5240-2020-10-18-12-09-2020-d-podcast-interviews-with-david-abbruzzese

https://www.a-4-d.com/t8033-2023-02-06-2020-d-podcast-interview-with-david-abbruzzese

 

 

Good reads. Never saw those before. Saying GNR don’t have stage presence is QUITE the take though. 

[GnR Chris]

From everything I read about the Chinese era, I don’t think the label wanted Axl to fail, but I do think they wanted to get a reunion out of him, and delaying the release may have been part of it (in hopes Slash would return first and record on it). At least at some point.  

[Bitchisback]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:24 PM, Blackstar said:

New interview:

https://www.songfacts.com/blog/interviews/dave-abbruzzese-ex-pearl-jam

The GN'R part:

Songfacts: What do you recall about your experience working with Guns N' Roses?

Abbruzzese: The Guns thing was tough. Axl [Rose] and I became familiar with one another through nightly phone calls for months before we actually met and played music together. It was a tough time for me because I had quite a bit of soul poisoning from the way my manager handled my termination from Pearl Jam. I was leery of entering the big machine again because of it. Things were moving along well until I spoke to the G n' R management regarding my opinion that the new music might be better suited to an Axl solo album rather than a G n' R album.

Doug Smith [David probably means Doug Goldstein], the Guns' manager at the time, told me that the management and the label had a plan of letting the album we were making be the catalyst for getting Axl to reunite with Slash. The plan was to let him fail and the hope was that this failure would inspire him to reunite with Slash and get the big train back on the tracks. When I heard this I was forced to choose between informing Axl about it or just bowing out. I felt that if I told him of their plan it would destroy what little faith he had in the machine.

 

Really hard to figure out why Axl isn't interested in making new music anymore.

[SoulMonster]

4 hours ago, Bitchisback said:

Really hard to figure out why Axl isn't interested in making new music anymore.

It is not necessarily this big mystery. Interests come and go. 

[Stay.Of.Execution]

On 1/11/2024 at 11:16 AM, jimisbatman said:

Definitely the wrong thread, but any interviews w/trent rezner talking about his time in GNR camp? What do we know about it? 

Speaking of: does anyone still have that picture of NIN posing under a Chinese democracy sign?

[Tomek1985]

Dave "The God" Somebody

[denin]

So, Dave says Goldstein and co wanted to do the same thing as Azoff and co. Humor Axl with his glorified solo album and wait for him to call Slash back.

That happened, only they overestimated Axl's drive to follow CD up with a "proper" Guns album.

[MCollins]

What about his comment that Greg Gilmore was supposed to be the drummer back in 85, but ousted, and Izzy was the purely a songwriter who wasn't supposed to be the image of the band and that the whole band was basically industry-manufactured?? This is completely off-the-wall but Abbruzzeze should know what he's talking about. 

[Blackstar]

17 minutes ago, MCollins said:

What about his comment that Greg Gilmore was supposed to be the drummer back in 85, but ousted, and Izzy was the purely a songwriter who wasn't supposed to be the image of the band and that the whole band was basically industry-manufactured?? This is completely off-the-wall but Abbruzzeze should know what he's talking about. 

I think he apparently doesn't know what he's talking about regarding this subject:

 

[El Guapo]

Abruzze!!

[lunastar]

8 hours ago, MCollins said:

А как насчет его комментария о том, что Грег Гилмор должен был быть барабанщиком еще в 85-м, но был изгнан, а Иззи был просто автором песен, который не должен был быть имиджем группы, и что вся группа, по сути, была создана индустрией? ? Это совершенно необычно, но Аббруццезе должен знать, о чем говорит. 

I think the talent managers brought them all together and just waited for them to become friends, and then the myths about what a fun and friendly band they were were fixed in interviews and then in autobiographies. By the way, one of the talent managers, Vicky Hamilton, said that Axl threatened her. That's not why he threatened her so that she wouldn't blab about how it really was? 

In addition, someone in one of the biographies (I don't remember who wrote, maybe Steven Davis or maybe Razcue) mentioned that Duff was brought to GNR by a talent manager. I think the name Vicky Hamilton was mentioned. 

It was from the very beginning. The usual way to survive and build a career. Nothing to condemn. Judging by the stories of participants in the Los Angeles scene and near it, there were many children of rich parents and parents with musical connections among the musicians in the city. Izzy led the line of acquaintance with them. Chris Webber is the son of wealthy parents, Tracii Guns and Slash are the children of well-connected parents. I think at some point (if we remember, Izzy took Axl away from Rapidfire), they both realized that without influential friends they would not advance. They were ready for the marketing deal mentally. And I think Slash and his parents were actively involved in this deal (Axl and Izzy offer themselves as a tandem of creators, authors (songs, riffs and possibly solos) Slash offers his connections. 

In my opinion, the idea of a marketing project is the missing puzzle to understand what is happening with the band now and especially the last 8 years, no matter how bitter the truth may be. They are used to making deals, acting rationally, and not going the romantic creative way of creating a work of art together. The fact is that the deal between Axl/Izzy and Slash completed (circa 1991). For a new collaboration, they need a new foundation, in this case it's only money. In the classic line-up, the author of the riffs and songs was Izzy/Axl and the fact that they refused to reunite Izzy (songwriter) suggests that writing an album with original music was not from the beginning part of the reunion deal. 

I guess Dave's right.

 

[Rovim]

22 minutes ago, lunastar said:

I think the talent managers brought them all together and just waited for them to become friends, and then the myths about what a fun and friendly band they were were fixed in interviews and then in autobiographies. By the way, one of the talent managers, Vicky Hamilton, said that Axl threatened her. That's not why he threatened her so that she wouldn't blab about how it really was? 

In addition, someone in one of the biographies (I don't remember who wrote, maybe Steven Davis or maybe Razcue) mentioned that Duff was brought to GNR by a talent manager. I think the name Vicky Hamilton was mentioned. 

It was from the very beginning. The usual way to survive and build a career. Nothing to condemn. Judging by the stories of participants in the Los Angeles scene and near it, there were many children of rich parents and parents with musical connections among the musicians in the city. Izzy led the line of acquaintance with them. Chris Webber is the son of wealthy parents, Tracii Guns and Slash are the children of well-connected parents. I think at some point (if we remember, Izzy took Axl away from Rapidfire), they both realized that without influential friends they would not advance. They were ready for the marketing deal mentally. And I think Slash and his parents were actively involved in this deal (Axl and Izzy offer themselves as a tandem of creators, authors (songs, riffs and possibly solos) Slash offers his connections. 

In my opinion, the idea of a marketing project is the missing puzzle to understand what is happening with the band now and especially the last 8 years, no matter how bitter the truth may be. They are used to making deals, acting rationally, and not going the romantic creative way of creating a work of art together. The fact is that the deal between Axl/Izzy and Slash completed (circa 1991). For a new collaboration, they need a new foundation, in this case it's only money. In the classic line-up, the author of the riffs and songs was Izzy/Axl and the fact that they refused to reunite Izzy (songwriter) suggests that writing an album with original music was not from the beginning part of the reunion deal. 

I guess Dave's right.

 

a lot of baseless speculation. 

[Free Bird]

1 hour ago, lunastar said:

I think the talent managers brought them all together and just waited for them to become friends, and then the myths about what a fun and friendly band they were were fixed in interviews and then in autobiographies. By the way, one of the talent managers, Vicky Hamilton, said that Axl threatened her. That's not why he threatened her so that she wouldn't blab about how it really was? 

In addition, someone in one of the biographies (I don't remember who wrote, maybe Steven Davis or maybe Razcue) mentioned that Duff was brought to GNR by a talent manager. I think the name Vicky Hamilton was mentioned. 

It was from the very beginning. The usual way to survive and build a career. Nothing to condemn. Judging by the stories of participants in the Los Angeles scene and near it, there were many children of rich parents and parents with musical connections among the musicians in the city. Izzy led the line of acquaintance with them. Chris Webber is the son of wealthy parents, Tracii Guns and Slash are the children of well-connected parents. I think at some point (if we remember, Izzy took Axl away from Rapidfire), they both realized that without influential friends they would not advance. They were ready for the marketing deal mentally. And I think Slash and his parents were actively involved in this deal (Axl and Izzy offer themselves as a tandem of creators, authors (songs, riffs and possibly solos) Slash offers his connections. 

In my opinion, the idea of a marketing project is the missing puzzle to understand what is happening with the band now and especially the last 8 years, no matter how bitter the truth may be. They are used to making deals, acting rationally, and not going the romantic creative way of creating a work of art together. The fact is that the deal between Axl/Izzy and Slash completed (circa 1991). For a new collaboration, they need a new foundation, in this case it's only money. In the classic line-up, the author of the riffs and songs was Izzy/Axl and the fact that they refused to reunite Izzy (songwriter) suggests that writing an album with original music was not from the beginning part of the reunion deal. 

I guess Dave's right.

 

I call that bullshit

[JimiRose]

Guess what Dave, you failed. Axl has done fuck all as a creative force.