Alternate Use Your Illusion tracklist

[traddfolks]

Just out of curiosity - If Guns had've sequenced the Illusion albums chronologically what would that look like? Oldest song first, newest song last. I'm guessing Back Off Bitch was the earliest written and My World was last.

Edited May 24 by traddfolks

[rocknroll41]

This is just a guess but:

back off bitch

november rain

dont cry (original)

perfect crime

bad obsession

the garden/ yesterdays

you could be mine

knocking on heaven’s door (GnR started covering this in 1987)

dust n bones/ garden of Eden/ don’t damn me/ civil war/ locomotive

you ain’t the first/ live & let die (pretty sure GnR started covering it in 1990)/ double Talkin jive/ bad apples/ dead horse/ coma/ 14 years/ get in the ring/ shotgun blues/ breakdown/ pretty tied up/ so fine/ estranged

right next door to hell

dont cry (alternate lyrics)

my world

[Gordon Comstock]

18 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

This is just a guess but:

back off bitch

november rain

dont cry (original)

perfect crime

bad obsession

the garden/ yesterdays

you could be mine

knocking on heaven’s door (GnR started covering this in 1987)

dust n bones/ garden of Eden/ don’t damn me/ civil war/ locomotive

you ain’t the first/ live & let die (pretty sure GnR started covering it in 1990)/ double Talkin jive/ bad apples/ dead horse/ coma/ 14 years/ get in the ring/ shotgun blues/ breakdown/ pretty tied up/ so fine/ estranged

right next door to hell

dont cry (alternate lyrics)

my world

 

I think this is pretty close but, Bad Obsession/The Garden/Yesterdays were all on the same West Arkeen demo tape, and Dead Horse was another song that Axl had been working on before GNR formed.

Edited May 25 by Gordon Comstock

[traddfolks]

22 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

This is just a guess but:

back off bitch

november rain

dont cry (original)

perfect crime

bad obsession

the garden/ yesterdays

you could be mine

knocking on heaven’s door (GnR started covering this in 1987)

dust n bones/ garden of Eden/ don’t damn me/ civil war/ locomotive

you ain’t the first/ live & let die (pretty sure GnR started covering it in 1990)/ double Talkin jive/ bad apples/ dead horse/ coma/ 14 years/ get in the ring/ shotgun blues/ breakdown/ pretty tied up/ so fine/ estranged

right next door to hell

dont cry (alternate lyrics)

my world

Right on man. That's about how I had it. I wasn't sure if Slash had Locomotive and Coma together around the same time or not. Didn't realize RNDTH was that late in the game either. 

[eggers]

.

Edited May 25 by eggers

[Moro]

don't cry would be the oldest song

[t-p-d-a]

13 minutes ago, Moro said:

don't cry would be the oldest song

so old, GN'R did a Don't Cry demo recording with Tracii Guns

[SoulMonster]

I tried to figure out when all released, original GN'R songs were written. Not so simple for all of them. And obviously, some riffs may have been in gestation for years before they turned into a "song", so it is not obvious how to demarcate the start of a song. Still, here's a quick attempt:

 

[SoulMonster]

Made a more visual thingy. The dark green is time when I believe the main work on the song was done, the light green is when I believe some work was done.

 

[Voodoochild]

5 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I tried to figure out when all released, original GN'R songs were written. Not so simple for all of them. And obviously, some riffs may have been in gestation for years before they turned into a "song", so it is not obvious how to demarcate the start of a song. Still, here's a quick attempt:

 

Great work. I have a few questions, if you don't mind.

There was a post from back then of a person who got invited by Axl to his Halloween party and claimed to have heard Madagascar keyboard intro or something like that. I believe that was from 1998/1999, although the post was from 2001-ish.

From the Rolling Stone article and matching with the time Josh Freese and Robin were in the band, I think it's safe to say that Prostitute, The Blues, Riad, Chinese, IRS (what's the story behind the "loop with this name existed in 1998"?), Catcher and Absurd/Silkworms all date from before 1999.  

[SoulMonster]

13 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

Great work. I have a few questions, if you don't mind.

There was a post from back then of a person who got invited by Axl to his Halloween party and claimed to have heard Madagascar keyboard intro or something like that. I believe that was from 1998/1999, although the post was from 2001-ish.

From the Rolling Stone article and matching with the time Josh Freese and Robin were in the band, I think it's safe to say that Prostitute, The Blues, Riad, Chinese, IRS (what's the story behind the "loop with this name existed in 1998"?), Catcher and Absurd/Silkworms all date from before 1999.  

Most of these songs were written over time, and although demos of them existed before 1999, work continued with new musicians coming in and adding their parts. This is indicated, especially in the latest figure, where the dark green denotes periods where the main writing took place, while light green denotes periods where minor work was (possibly) done. So I think the latest figure, especially, provides a range that fits with what you said. 

As for the I.R.S. loop, that was a comment from Sean Paden who came into the project in 1998 and mentioned having seen this title on what was then only a loop:

[Moro]

On 5/28/2024 at 8:27 AM, t-p-d-a said:

so old, GN'R did a Don't Cry demo recording with Tracii Guns

of course I was talking about proper Guns n' Roses songs....Don't Cry is actually the first song ever written as Gnr. I didn't consider songs written earlier as Hollywood Rose or by solo members.

[Voodoochild]

8 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Most of these songs were written over time, and although demos of them existed before 1999, work continued with new musicians coming in and adding their parts. This is indicated, especially in the latest figure, where the dark green denotes periods where the main writing took place, while light green denotes periods where minor work was (possibly) done. So I think the latest figure, especially, provides a range that fits with what you said. 

As for the I.R.S. loop, that was a comment from Sean Paden who came into the project in 1998 and mentioned having seen this title on what was then only a loop:

Thanks. Very interesting that a loop name would have inspired Axl's lyrics. But I consider that it could be the opposite: he had some form of lyrics and thought a loop with that specific "vibe" would fit in. For IRS, the drum machine for the intro and slow parts would be the loop, and this structure works the same in those 1999-ish songs like TWAT, Madagascar and Prostitute. 

[t-p-d-a]

why has WTTJ a light green box in 1979? Is there any source? Pretty interessting if Axl or whatever had a very early song/lyric idea at the time. 

[SoulMonster]

9 minutes ago, t-p-d-a said:

why has WTTJ a light green box in 1979? Is there any source? Pretty interessting if Axl or whatever had a very early song/lyric idea at the time. 

Duff claims he wrote the main riff then. Slash disagrees. 

[SoulMonster]

 

The song, Veins with The Fake is on Youtube.

[lunastar]

3 hours ago, t-p-d-a said:

why has WTTJ a light green box in 1979? Is there any source? Pretty interessting if Axl or whatever had a very early song/lyric idea at the time. 

The lyrical idea of the song WTTJ could not have originated before the song Hanoi rocks Underwater World appeared, and before Izzy became interested in Hanoi Rocks, because all this urban theme is a huge influence of Hanoi Rocks, in Rocket Queen Hanoi rocks is quoted, in WTTJ also, Paradise City is an interpretation of the lyrics of Hanoi Rocks, etc.

[Draguns]

4 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Duff claims he wrote the main riff then. Slash disagrees. 

I thought I read a long time ago that Welcome to the Jungle was the first song that Axl and Slash wrote together. Apparently, it was done in a bathroom and took 5 minutes to come up with. That's what I remember from back in the day. 

[rocknroll41]

On 5/28/2024 at 2:13 AM, Moro said:

don't cry would be the oldest song

Incorrect. Back Off Bitch was written in 1982 (alongside Shadow of Your Love, Reckless Life, and Anything Goes), but didn’t get carried into Hollywood Rose for some reason.

November Rain comes from Axl’s childhood, according to Michelle, and he was working on it during his stint in LA Guns.

Dont Cry was only written when GnR officially started. So it’s the first song they wrote as a band, but not the first song brought to the table.

EDIT: sorry, I didn’t see that you had already clarified your stance above.

Edited May 29 by rocknroll41

[SoulMonster]

5 hours ago, Draguns said:

I thought I read a long time ago that Welcome to the Jungle was the first song that Axl and Slash wrote together. Apparently, it was done in a bathroom and took 5 minutes to come up with. That's what I remember from back in the day. 

As indicated by Duff in the quotes I posted above, Slash claims he came up with the riff. Here are all the quotes: (37) 05. JUNE-DECEMBER 1985: LOCAL FAME (a-4-d.com)

[axl666]

On 5/28/2024 at 10:07 AM, SoulMonster said:

I tried to figure out when all released, original GN'R songs were written. Not so simple for all of them. And obviously, some riffs may have been in gestation for years before they turned into a "song", so it is not obvious how to demarcate the start of a song. Still, here's a quick attempt:

 

This is really, really excellent work. I didn't know that so many use your illusion songs were worked on so early in the 1980s.

It looks like gnr had 3 primary creative phases, 84-86, 89-91 and 98-2000?

 

Also interesting that the two weakest songs on uyi, get in the ring and my world, were written last.

[Amir]

On 5/28/2024 at 10:07 AM, SoulMonster said:

I tried to figure out when all released, original GN'R songs were written. Not so simple for all of them. And obviously, some riffs may have been in gestation for years before they turned into a "song", so it is not obvious how to demarcate the start of a song. Still, here's a quick attempt:

 

Nice work One thing I'm not clear is how we know Catcher was started that early?

[SoulMonster]

21 minutes ago, axl666 said:

This is really, really excellent work. I didn't know that so many use your illusion songs were worked on so early in the 1980s.

It looks like gnr had 3 primary creative phases, 84-86, 89-91 and 98-2000?

 

Also interesting that the two weakest songs on uyi, get in the ring and my world, were written last.

Yeah, I thought about that myself. 1987 and 1988 were touring years. I imagine a few song ideas originated from this period, like riff that Slash would then work on more and bring to sessions in 1990 when they really started working on new material for the Illusions, but they haven't really talked about it. Then they did work on music in '94-'87, too, but it seems like most of the work either ended up on other albums (solo albums, Velvet Revolver, etc) or was shelved. 

[SoulMonster]

18 minutes ago, Amir said:

Nice work One thing I'm not clear is how we know Catcher was started that early?

We don't, that was a mistake. In the more visual figure I have marked it down as mainly being worked on in 1998, but it could be that the main year was 1999 instead. We don't really know. By 2000 a complete version was done (as shown from the Village leaks), and we know Brian May worked on it in 1999/2000. Then, of course, it was worked on after this, too, with Bumblefoot and Frank, among others, adding parts. But yeah, exactly when it started is not clear. 

[StrangerInThisTown]

41 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yeah, I thought about that myself. 1987 and 1988 were touring years. I imagine a few song ideas originated from this period, like riff that Slash would then work on more and bring to sessions in 1990 when they really started working on new material for the Illusions, but they haven't really talked about it. Then they did work on music in '94-'87, too, but it seems like most of the work either ended up on other albums (solo albums, Velvet Revolver, etc) or was shelved. 

1987 had YCBM (probably incomplete lyrics) written, Used To Love Her, One In A Million. Don't forget 1988 they wrote atleast 1 full song: It Tastes Good Don't It. Maybe even 2 if you count Cornshucker, but that was only really the music, since unlike It Tastes Good Don't It the lyrics were mostly just improvised, if I recall. I'd say that's not so few songs after all.

Edited May 30 by StrangerInThisTown