A guess at the reason we are gettin so many CD tracks live

[Mark1989]

Me personally I have an issue with ,I think someone said 42 percent of the show being either covers or CD tracks. I still feel as I'm I'm seeing New GnR as oppose to a classic lineup. For example its a crime AFD songs like Out Ta get me and UYI songs like Patience are being swapped out. I get the feeling this is still very much about Axl and Slash and Duff are just part of new GnR. 

[RONIN]

1 minute ago, Zurimor said:

Don't take your own opinion as a given, I really like CD, it's not a failure at all to me and quite some people share this opinion, too. If you followed more recent reviews of CD, they were much more positive than those reviews right after release, too. I really assume those reviews were more a "but this is not a Guns N' Roses album" thing...

Fair enough. Look - I suppose "failure" can be subjective if we're talking about personal enjoyment. I think Chinese Democracy is a strong album - certainly leagues beyond most modern rock records. The CITR demo was a good enough song to be worthy of inclusion on UYI 2. All that being said, it's a very divisive album for hardcore fans as you can see just on this thread. I think CD is more accepted by "Axl" fans as opposed to some of us who see GnR as a 5 man collaborative effort artistically. 

I get your point though and am mostly in agreement.

[Silent Jay]

The REAL and OBVIOUS reason we are gettin so many CD tracks live IS...

...because Chinese Democracy is an excelllent and underrated Guns N' Roses album.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Silent Jay

[Mark1989]

4 minutes ago, RONIN said:

. All that being said, it's a very divisive album for hardcore fans as you can see just on this thread. I think CD is more accepted by "Axl" fans as opposed to some of us who see GnR as a 5 man collaborative effort artistically. 

Couldn't have put it better !

[Padme]

2 hours ago, agustingloger said:

The guy spent half of his career making that record , against everyone, former members, lawsuits, company records... off course he want to play those songs. And don't forget about Axl's ego and all his crap that destroyed this band , you are going to listen this songs until he retires we all know it.. he just can't and won't accept this songs are pretty mediocre or not GN'R. this band went to shit after 94 but they have that thing that makes them special .. only way this band could turn real again is with a new record 

I would agree with you if the shows were for free. But Axl has paying costumers. And those tickets are expensive. Needless to say that nobody is compelled to go to the shows. I can only speak for myself here. But I would be going to more shows if the set list was different and the line up were different. In the thread about the show in Ireland someone posted that many people left the show after SCOM. If you bought the ticket then deal with the whole thing otherwise spend that money on something else

[Gold top 78]

52 minutes ago, Zurimor said:

I whole-heartedly disagree with you on this. Several former band members repeatedly stated they like the CD material, Slash included http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/slash-calls-guns-n-roses-chinese-democracy-a-great-statement-172820

My guess is they play CD songs because they just like to perform them live.

Another question, do you really all go to concerts to hear the hits ? I mean, I already know the hits of the bands I want to see live and really care more about not so known stuff, some hidden jewel performed live is worth way more to me than all the hits in the world....

 

 

 

I'm not saying ex members hated CD as I've never read any interviews about them talking about it apart from Slash. Axl said himself he didn't expect Slash to learn the CD stuff so if a full reunion happened who knows how they would've approached it. They might have still learned them they might have stuck to the 87-93 material. 

As for going to see the hits of course the deep cuts are always great to hear and just as important as the hits. As I've said I don't like CD but i don't mind if they play a few CD songs on the setlist but there's that many hidden gems on UYI or Lies they could play as well. If they're going to try some more CD songs then why not more UYI songs as well 

[AlexC]

Funny how most of the people saying that there shouldn't be any Chinese Democracy songs in the set because they don't consider them GN'R songs are frequently mentioning that they want some Conspirators or VR material to be played.

If CD isn't GN'R then Slash and Duff's outside projects certainly aren't either.

[xBrownstonex]

2 hours ago, k12 said:

we are getting them because Axl is really hating the fans and Slash, he is hating the fans for not supporting his GNR project from 2000-2014, and he hates Slash for who knows what reason, he is basically shoving those songs down our throats as his way of saying FU to the fans for not supporting his GNR project and he is making Slash his bitch by making him playing them

Get off the drugs. They mess with your brain

Edited May 31, 2017 by xBrownstonex

[DexAxl]

Can we stop with shit like this already for fuck's sake, it's same old thread with different title.

Edited May 31, 2017 by DexAxl

[Sosso]

Here is an interview with Slash from 2008:

the guitarist has surprisingly kind words for Chinese Democracy, the Guns N' Roses album Axl has labored over for well over a decade. Maybe he wouldn't mind playing the songs live.

 http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/slash-calls-guns-n-roses-chinese-democracy-a-great-statement-172820

[IncitingChaos]

If they play Atlas Shrugged is that considered a CD song or a new song? 

[king2vo]

58 minutes ago, Mark1989 said:

Me personally I have an issue with ,I think someone said 42 percent of the show being either covers or CD tracks. I still feel as I'm I'm seeing New GnR as oppose to a classic lineup. For example its a crime AFD songs like Out Ta get me and UYI songs like Patience are being swapped out. I get the feeling this is still very much about Axl and Slash and Duff are just part of new GnR. 

 

Gosh. So you would accept CD songs if they were played by the AFD lineup or even the UYI lineup? That's rather funny. 

The classic lineup is no more. Unless you get yourself a time machine, there is no way you will see it. The current lineup is as classic as it can get. 

There are so many songs to choose from. I saw GNR perform Patience and OTGM many times before. It would be a 'crime' (lol at this word) for the band not to update their setlist every once in a while,  don't you think? 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by king2vo
correction

[DieselDaisy]

3 hours ago, Jeez said:

 

In Bilbao they played 24 songs. 6 of those are from Chinese or a cover (Chinese, Better, This I Love, Sorry, Seeker, Black Hole Sun). That's 25%.

Even if you add Attitude, Knocking and LALD to the list, it'd be a total of 37,5%. You can by definition call them covers, but the versions recorded and released by GNR are as popular/known as their respective originals. To me it's weird counting them as covers next to songs such as The Seeker, who virtually has nothing to do with GNR at all. But I can see why you do it to support your argument

And we're still not up to 42%, which means I'm missing something. Their 30 sec version cover of Johnny Thunders, perhaps?

They, 'Knockin' on Heavens Door' etc, are covers because they are covers! The fact that there exists (Guns) studio versions does not invalidate the fact Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, Danzig et al., authored them!

PS

42% including the two guitar jingles ('Wish You Were Here' and 'Godfather').

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by DieselDaisy

[Towelie]

1 hour ago, maynard said:

Well, it seems like it. Course there were adjustments. One less guitar player, One less Pitman... DTJ and Coma return. But aside from it, the shows sound and look just like the eternal CD tour, unfortunately. Even DJ's tease before WTTJ is still there. lol Slash.

I think the three of them are doing their best to take advantage from all of this. Axl wouldn't fill stadiums with NuNuNuNuGNR. Slash wouldn't headline Rock in Rio with Myles, Duff was more known for his books than his music prior to the reunion. They don't have to tell the press anything that happened behind the scenes. They don't have to make 30 seconds of new music to sell a ticket. It's such a comfortable situation for the three of them.

Seeing Axl and Slash together again was cool and the best thing to happen to GNR since 93. But things are just wrong. Their recent big announcement was just as pathetic as any fiasco of the NuGNR days. Axl's voice is just as bad as it's been since 2011.

And no, asskissers, don't worry. I'm totally fine in my personal life. Not writing this from a basement either.

Just wish they had the balls to do something different. Slash and Duff simply accepted their roles as Axl's employees in some kind of hybrid GNR/NuGNR. I wouldn't mind much if Axl could at least still sing. But he sounds like shit.

 

This.

The days of any of any of them having a musical vision for the direction of the band are long gone. This reunion isn't about music, it's about milking fans nostalgia with the sole aim of topping up their retirement funds. Do you think Slash's solo projects come cheap? Or Axl having an entire Brazillian family on the payroll? This tour is making sure they never have to worry about money ever again.

If they were remotely interested in moving the band forward, they wouldn't need to play CD songs, they would've put together a new album and released it before launching the reunion tour. They could've just kept one or two CD songs in the set to massage Axl's fragile ego, and his delusions that CD counted as a legitimate Guns record, and they could've kept things interesting by playing 4-5 cuts off the new record and then filling out the rest of the setlist with the usual crowd-pleasers. This is what they could've done, if they cared about re-establishing Guns N Roses as a relevant, creative band again. But that was obviously too much like hard work for Axl. Why work harder when you're raking in $1mil per show? For creative reasons? lol. Get real. This is Axl Rose we're talking about.

[Tom-Ass]

14 minutes ago, king2vo said:

 

Gosh. So you would accept CD songs if they were played by the AFD lineup or even the UYI lineup? That's rather funny. 

The classic lineup is no more. Unless you get yourself a time machine, there is no way you will see it. The current lineup is as classic as it can get. 

There are so many songs to choose from. I saw GNR perform Patience and OTGM many times before. It would be a 'crime' (lol at this word) for the band not to update their setlist every once in a while,  don't you think? 

 

 

They could update it with better songs (I use that term loosely) than ones of CD..  And instead of spending all their effort learning more CD songs, there are still classic songs in the set that they can't play right.

[Sunset Gardner]

Just now, k12 said:

we are getting them because Axl is really hating the fans and Slash, he is hating the fans for not supporting his GNR project from 2000-2014, and he hates Slash for who knows what reason, he is basically shoving those songs down our throats as his way of saying FU to the fans for not supporting his GNR project and he is making Slash his bitch by making him playing them

 

i agree.  this is axl forcing his solo material into the show, endlessly trying to legitimize the period of time where he single handedly destroyed guns n' roses with a hired group of clowns.  axl and Team Yes deep down do know that we reject CD and axl's "lineups" that he tried to get away with selling as gnr.  as far a slash and duff playing CD songs… they know they are in a position: play along or Fat Elivis is gonna take the ball and go home.  i'm sure financially and personally it's worth it to play a few axl solo songs to keep the machine rolling.  

still… watching slash and duff try and make sense of axl's failures is hard to watch and i hope one day slash and duff or someone on Team Yes gets the balls to say NO.   NO AXL!  NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR CD SONGS!    

every night when axl walks out on stage and he sees the size of the venue, the size of the crowd, the size of his paycheck, he is reminded of all the years he toured with a band that merely one percent of the gnr fan base bought into.  he knows the truth.  every night he is remind he wasted his prime.  every night these CD songs are trying to prove the truth to be a lie.  it won't work.  the mediocrity of the songs speak for themselves.      

 

Just now, RONIN said:

How do you know the rest of the band aka Duff and Slash enjoyed it? Because they say so? Look at the interviews where they talk about the album - hardly a glowing endorsement. Most of the time they say something diplomatic and quickly change the subject. Matt Sorum called CD a "toe tapper" - does that sound like someone who liked the album? Remember, all these guys quit the band over Axl's musical direction. By default, they weren't into these songs. I think Duff is on record as saying he really digs CITR and Better though.

By any measurable metric, Chinese Democracy was a failure - or to be kind, a massive disappointment. But look, if Axl sees Chinese Democracy as a triumph, then ultimately that's what counts in the end because the guy spent his entire prime creating that album. I would hope it would be immensely meaningful to him despite critical and commercial rejection.  

i always enjoy your posts RONIN… i don't want to make assumptions or speak for you… but i like that you can appreciate CD for the songs you respond to without losing track that it wasn't really a guns album and it's reception was rightfully shit.  for me, i don't begrudge axl a solo album and i don't begrudge people liking it… it's how the lawyers enabled it to be called gnr and how axl laughably actually tried to pull that off and how certain "fans" actually bought into it and to this day believe CD is a gnr record and axl IS HIMSELF gnr, not 1/5 of something great.  

 

[Mark1989]

11 minutes ago, king2vo said:

 

 

There are so many songs to choose from. I saw GNR perform Patience and OTGM many times before. It would be a 'crime' (lol at this word) for the band not to update their setlist every once in a while,  don't you think? 

 

 

There allot of the current audience that haven't had a change to hear Patience and OTGM because they didn't buy into the New Guns. Rightly so. They have bought a ticket to see The reunion of a "classic" lineup and they want to hear the classics. Like it or not the show needs to be aimed at the causals. I bet there are many people going to the shows who don't even know what CD is and will come away very disappointed having spent allot of money not to see tunes like OTTM MM and Patience. Especially from a band that are not producing new music and are saturating the market and charging horrendous ticket prices, playing music that 20 years old even 10 if you cont CD.

[Tom-Ass]

1 minute ago, Mark1989 said:

There allot of the current audience that haven't had a change to hear Patience and OTGM because they didn't buy into the New Guns. Rightly so. They have bought a ticket to see The reunion of a "classic" lineup and they want to hear the classics. Like it or not the show needs to be aimed at the causals. I bet there are many people going to the shows who don't even know what CD is and will come away very disappointed having spent allot of money not to see tunes like OTTM MM and Patience. Especially from a band that are not producing new music and are saturating the market and charging horrendous ticket prices, playing music that 20 years old even 10 if you cont CD.

Exactly this.... For the people that want to hear CD songs, Axl should to a solo club/theater tour on his down time from Guns to keep his nut swingers happy.  Looking at the increase of ticket sales since the "reunion" people want to heart songs by the classic lineups.. All these people sure as hell weren't buying tickets during the painful CD era..

[Towelie]

4 minutes ago, Sunset Gardner said:

 

i agree.  this is axl forcing his solo material into the show, endlessly trying to legitimize the period of time where he single handedly destroyed guns n' roses with a hired group of clowns.  axl and Team Yes deep down do know that we reject CD and axl's "lineups" that he tried to get away with selling as gnr.  as far a slash and duff playing CD songs… they know they are in a position: play along or Fat Elivis is gonna take the ball and go home.  i'm sure financially and personally it's worth it to play a few axl solo songs to keep the machine rolling.  

 

^^^ The bolded part made me snort my tea up my nose with laughter.

[king2vo]

2 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

They could update it with better songs (I use that term loosely) than ones of CD..  And instead of spending all their effort learning more CD songs, there are still classic songs in the set that they can't play right.

 

Yes, they should totally play My World! That's a UYI song and I believe they never played it before! 

They have to find a balance between songs from each of their albums, covers, and the occasional tribute. 

 

 

People wanted Slash. He's there. Duff, check. People are still not happy. 

People wanted Estranged. They got their wish but they are not happy. 

Shows, lots of  shows with Slash and Duff and Axl, lots of songs being played in 3 hours, but aaaah, that's not right because the don't play them properly (when you play live, you have to play exactly like on the record. If you don't, you can't play. Period). 

 

This band can never win. Whatever they do, there is always someone who bitches about something. Deja vu gets boring. 

[Tom-Ass]

3 minutes ago, king2vo said:

 

Yes, they should totally play My World! That's a UYI song and I believe they never played it before! 

They have to find a balance between songs from each of their albums, covers, and the occasional tribute. 

I know you were just being clever but I would rather hear My World than the stuff on CD.. I know i'm in the minority but I always liked it.  Where is the balance? They play zero songs off LIES half the time. Any one of those songs would please more people than the CD crap... 4 CD songs per set is waaay too much and then to throw one in the encore is complete fucking joke.. They certainly aren't worthy of that.

[king2vo]

18 minutes ago, Mark1989 said:

There allot of the current audience that haven't had a change to hear Patience and OTGM because they didn't buy into the New Guns. Rightly so. They have bought a ticket to see The reunion of a "classic" lineup and they want to hear the classics. Like it or not the show needs to be aimed at the causals. I bet there are many people going to the shows who don't even know what CD is and will come away very disappointed having spent allot of money not to see tunes like OTTM MM and Patience. Especially from a band that are not producing new music and are saturating the market and charging horrendous ticket prices, playing music that 20 years old even 10 if you cont CD.

 

Yeah, let's party like it's 1993.  

 

But seriously, the casual fans you are talking about get what they want already: they want Sweet Child of Mine, It's So Easy, Live and Let Die, November Rain, Mr Brownstone, Jungle, Heaven's Door... 

 

 

[Towelie]

10 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

If we are to believe Rose's comment that Hudson and McKagan rehearsed them voluntarily, then I think it is Slash and Duff's way to ''kow tow to the fuhrer'', a way to demonstrate their allegiance.

The whole Slash/Duff wanting to play those songs bit is obviously just a party line.

I think it must've been agreed in the negotiations between Slash's manager and Mamacita Lebeis, that the Fuhrer would only agree to Slash's return on the condition that he plays CD songs. Of course, Mamacita Lebeis doesn't tell Axl that, she tells him that Slash and Duff wanted to perform these songs.

It must've been a bitter pill for Axl to swallow, knowing that for the last 5 years of NuGNR, his band was incapable of pulling in arena numbers in the States. He really had no choice, no label wanted to support another NuGNR release, and people weren't coming to the shows anymore. Instead of cutting his losses, and doing what Ronnie James Dio and Tony Iommi did when they renamed their band Heaven & Hell, Axl wanted to carry on the façade of NuGNR being a legitimate incarnation of the Guns N Roses. Partly because his delusion knows no bounds, and partly because it allows him to tour the world for another 4-5 years, not having to lift a finger to record any new music.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Towelie

[DieselDaisy]

I hasten to bet that more casuals know songs like 'Think About You', 'you're Crazy' and 'Out Ta Get Me' than anything on Chinese. A lot of people have Appetite in their music collection who are not particular fans of the band because it is one of those seminal albums.

[king2vo]

 

 

So they don't play Patience and OTGM ?

 

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by king2vo