IZZY STRADLIN (and MATT SORUM) show up at movie festival in Palm Springs

[Modano09]

15 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

the problem is the vast majority of the concert goeers have no clue what the real gnr sound is and have no idea what the true classic gnr sounded/sounds like - the majority are fan boys and wannabee chick fans plus dad rockers 

So it's a problem for GNR hipsters then?

[double talkin jive mfkr]

1 hour ago, Modano09 said:

So it's a problem for GNR hipsters then?

problem for die hards funny guy or for anyone that knew the real gnr

put things in perspective i gave away my 5 tickets to see NITL at a loss b/c i couldn't stomach seeing them again as is not to mention the below par drumming and stage sluttiness that fortus exhibits 

Edited January 15, 2018 by double talkin jive mfkr

[WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself]

1 hour ago, Derick said:

Yeah..But I don´t buy it! I can see irony in his posts..So probably it´s just a Fortus hater trying to milking even more hate against him..And he´s getting what he wants..just take a look at the reactions..

Yeah, to me that's quite obvious.

[passenger57]

Man, I'd really love to see him on stage with his brothers again. These guys are really taking time for granted - one day they will start dying off   Some things money can't buy

[StrangerInThisTown]

1 hour ago, Derick said:

Yeah..But I don´t buy it! I can see irony in his posts..So probably it´s just a Fortus hater trying to milking even more hate against him..And he´s getting what he wants..just take a look at the reactions..He´s good..he knows what he does..

 

God! Sometimes we are very very naive over here! 

...

Would a Fortus hater troll make posts such as "Fortus will blow us away on the next album" or "Fortus sounds AWESOME with the gretch!", "Fortus is very important in the sound of the band. Incredible player."? 

How about you research the guy a little more before calling people naive? He has plenty posts of praising Fortus without the what you perceive as "ironic" tone aswell, no he really means what he says. It is so ridiculous people think he's being sarcastic, should be quite telling.

Edited January 15, 2018 by StrangerInThisTown

[WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself]

4 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

...

Would a Fortus hater troll make posts such as "Fortus will blow us away on the next album" or "Fortus sounds AWESOME with the gretch!", "Fortus is very important in the sound of the band. Incredible player."? 

How about you research the guy a little more before calling people naive? He has plenty posts of praising Fortus without the what you perceive as "ironic" tone aswell, no he really means what he says.

But the reactions he gets are always the same: bashing Fortus.

[StrangerInThisTown]

9 minutes ago, WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself said:

But the reactions he gets are always the same: bashing Fortus.

He gets what he wants, pissing people off, especially those who like Izzy, hence why it's better to just ignore him since he never bothers to reply anyway. Just wants to stir shit. Almost like a propaganda station.

Edited January 15, 2018 by StrangerInThisTown

[Derick]

1 hour ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

...

Would a Fortus hater troll make posts such as "Fortus will blow us away on the next album" or "Fortus sounds AWESOME with the gretch!", "Fortus is very important in the sound of the band. Incredible player."? 

How about you research the guy a little more before calling people naive? He has plenty posts of praising Fortus without the what you perceive as "ironic" tone aswell, no he really means what he says. It is so ridiculous people think he's being sarcastic, should be quite telling.

Oh, my bad! I admit I hadn´t read his other messages. I had only taken into account his messages on this thread, especially the statements:

- "It's all about Slash and Fortus on guitar. They are the entire world wants to see."

Because obvious that´s not true.

- " nobody needs Izzy to come back."
 Because Izzy´s fans need.

And as you showed me the other messages from him, I correct myself. I don´t think he is a Fortus hater anymore. 

But hey! So are you asking to block a guy because he states he believes that a current GN´R member "sounds great", "will blow us away on the next album", "is very important in the sound of the band" or is a "Incredible player"? That's it? C´mon!

Look, I quite understand that some people around here are extremely frustrated because Izzy is not in the band but to afirm that a guy is a troll and ask to block him because he likes a GNR member and, as a lot of people over here,sometimes shows that admiration in a wrong thread, is ridiculous!

 

P.D.: And I correct myself one more time: People aren´t naive, people are stupid!

[Modano09]

3 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

problem for die hards funny guy or for anyone that knew the real gnr

put things in perspective i gave away my 5 tickets to see NITL at a loss b/c i couldn't stomach seeing them again as is not to mention the below par drumming and stage sluttiness that fortus exhibits 

Yes, I know, nobody can drum but Steven Adler. And it doesn't matter if he's a risk who could have derailed the entire reunion, if he's who you want there that's what they should have given you. 

Maybe there are some die hard fans who actually enjoyed the shows? Or are just happy to have what we have, considering what we didn't have the last 20 years? "Die hard" and "true fans" aren't decided by a criteria decided by you. 

[WhazUp]

8 hours ago, youngswedishvinyl said:

These Izzy vs Fortus discussions are so fucking childish... 

Can't nobody on here argue like grown ups? 

A bunch of people arguing over behinds the scenes things we weren't behind the scenes to know in terms of why Izzy isn't there, and adding on some stupid "real GNR" arguments bashing the NTLT lineup as if subjectivity doesn't exist.  Pretty much sums it all up

[Back off Biches]

4 hours ago, Modano09 said:

Yes, I know, nobody can drum but Steven Adler. And it doesn't matter if he's a risk who could have derailed the entire reunion, if he's who you want there that's what they should have given you. 

Maybe there are some die hard fans who actually enjoyed the shows? Or are just happy to have what we have, considering what we didn't have the last 20 years? "Die hard" and "true fans" aren't decided by a criteria decided by you. 

Nor u on your nitl high horse buddy - opinions and loyalty towards  the classic lineup are more prevalent than what you would try and not admit - many die hards actually did not attend bc of the waywardness of the brand and current band alike 

[Back off Biches]

13 hours ago, Modano09 said:

It's the fourth highest grossing tour of all time, the band seems to be having fun and the vast majority attending shows are enjoying themselves. It's been a success and the general attitude towards GNR is positive for once. The vast majority don't care who the drummer is and aren't bored with the setlist because they're not watching every show through Periscope.

As for Izzy, it's not "talking shit" about him to suggest there are reasons he's not there that could be his own fault, his own choosing or at the very least not a simple "because Axl screwed him" scenario. I like Izzy. I'd prefer he be there but it's not a deal breaker for me. I can see why Izzy would be hesitant to sign up for 2 years of touring and I can see why they'd be hesitant to believe they could depend on Izzy for 2 years of touring. 

I can also see how they low balled him to guest rather than be full time which by all accounts he was ready and capable for and probably offered to even write new material 

 

But the machine behind the mad man and the two sell outs destroyed the band 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Back off Biches

[WhazUp]

18 minutes ago, Back off Biches said:

But the machine behind the mad man and the two sell outs destroyed the band 

And let us all mourn a dying band as millions of fans saw a great rock n' roll show in packed stadiums and arenas for 2 years.... 

A lot of the people here also on a side note have big issues with laying blame in such a silly bashful manner

 

[Derick]

1 hour ago, Back off Biches said:

loyalty towards  the classic lineup

Please don’t call what some of you do over here loyalty.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Derick

[Live Like a Suicide]

20 hours ago, Sunset Boulevard said:

Guys...

You just all miss ONE point : nobody needs Izzy to come back. Nobody.

NITL is the 4th biggest tour in music history... without Izzy.

It's all about Slash and Fortus on guitar. They are the ones the entire world wants to see.

End of story.

Guaranteed that 40000 of the 50000 average attendance per stadium have no fucking clue who Richard is. People are only attending for Axl, Slash, and to a lesser extent, Duff. 

I believe Richard is a great guitarist and a well-deserved member of the band, having been involved for 16 years. However you completely underestimate Izzy in your blinding worship of Fortus. Izzy was an essential member of the classic lineup, and his presence would benefit the band greatly. As a touring member, Guns would get to play deep classics. As a studio member, Guns would benefit by his lyrical and structural mastery.

I think the time has passed for Izzy to rejoin Guns, but i would welcome his presence on any future material.

 

[Live Like a Suicide]

On 1/15/2018 at 8:48 AM, tremolo said:

It seems pretty obvious to me that Izzy wanted to be a part of this.

I think that when the unthinkable happened (Axl and Slash talking again and wanting to tour/reunite the band), Izzy might have thought that maybe that meant that Axl had become more flexible and wasn’t the tyrant he had become when he (Izzy) was still in the band; and why wouldn’t he –or anyone for that matter– think that? It seemed doubtful that Slash and Duff would go back to GNR if it was going to be the same old story all over again.

Then there were talks and what was presented to Izzy led him to believe that this new version of GNR wasn’t that different from what it used to be: it’s Axl calling the shots, not everyone being seen or considered as an equally important part of the equation, etc.

Izzy doesn’t come accross as an irrational guy who will send it all to hell if things don’t go exactly the way he wants. He had a very bad experience being in a band with a nutjob of a singer, it just makes sense if he wants to avoid putting himself in the same scenario again; that’s a guy who learned from his own experience and is not willing to go through anything that resembles what he had to put up with back then.

And in all honesty, what does GNR have to show since this tour started? Just nostalgia, ticket sales and profit. Oh and Coma. Other than that... what? Performances have been mediocre, Axl hasn’t given it his best on stage. Lots of cringeworthy moments, a very stale setlist, an incredibly low performance at RIR. 

This was the biggest rock comeback of the century, and it has been very bland compared to what it could and should have been: the big 3 on top of their game, absolutely crushing it every night. But since the money is somewhat guaranteed, why bother, right? It makes me wonder about the real motivations behind this whole thing.

 

I don’t get why some people here like to shit on Izzy. The guy has been a class act about this whole thing, he’s just minding his own business, making music, not whoring himself out to the media, etc. I guess those people see things in black and white and are so polarized it’s impossible for them to have a bit of perspective instead of taking sides.

I don’t think the dynamics in the current band are the same as they were in 91-93, but it seems clear who had to compromise more to make this happen. Money talks after all.

With all due respect, i think you are seeing this in black and white as well.

Take a look in the NITL tour program. You will notice that among others, there are four key parties listed under the crew. Axl's management (Team Brazil), Slash's management, Duff's management, and the tour management. Guns N' Roses is nothing more than a business, and the NITL tour is nothing more than an arrangement agreed to by the three business partners. I highly doubt Axl is acting as a dictator again, and i highly doubt that he is 'calling the shots'. Guns is more complex now than what it was three years ago.

Izzy was likely offered less than he was pleased with. His complaints about the three not 'splitting the loot equally' implies that Izzy at least wanted an equal contract, and by all means he should have pushed for it. However, it puts the band, and Axl's management in a tight position. Team Brazil has to foot the bill for everybody else under their banner, and likely the rest of the band (Fortus, Ferrer, Reed and Reese) as well. Additionally, we don't know how much the split was.  We don't know how much Slash and Duff demanded. We don't know what contract izzy was offered. Was he offered a cut of Team Brazil's income? Was he offered a meager stipend from the business arrangement between the managers of Axl, Slash and Duff? The fact is we don't know, and the situation was likely much more complicated than Axl being a dictator or Slash and Duff being money hungry assholes.

The situation probably falls somewhere down the middle. The business of Guns N' Roses did not offer Izzy an adequate contract. Over a period of negotiations, things broke down and Izzy didn't agree to the conditions. This resulted in Axl's comment about how Izzy does things his own way (he has flaked out in the past), and Izzy's comments about the band not wanting to split the loot equally (which is most likely true). Nevertheless, i don't know why you are trying to put this solely on Axl when Izzy makes it very clear that it was a group problem.

As for the tour, it is a partial reunion. It should have been clear from the start that it would be nothing more than a nostalgia-driven tour with the odd song thrown in here and there. I also don't get your complaints about the band not playing their best when they play three and a half hour shows every second night, with Axl also fronting Guns and AC/DC. The setlist remains mostly unchanged because this is a single tour, and RIR has been historically mediocre for Guns.

I love Izzy and i would welcome him back in a heartbeat, but like you, i don't get why some people want to shit on others in the band or praise them like they could do no wrong. Things can be complicated. Discussions didn't work out between Izzy and the trifecta of Guns management. Such is life. Hopefully he is offered an adequate cut to appear on the next album, even if such a move is highly unlikely.

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Live Like a Suicide

[jacdaniel]

If Izzy and Steven were involved, I don't know that the reunion would have lasted this long. 

I don't think any of them particularly like Steven. They've matured and Steven is still the same over excited child he was back then. Nothing wrong with any of that, it is what it is. They probably enjoyed having him out for a guest appearance though. 

With Izzy it's more of a trust thing. Will he do a tour? Would he have learned CD songs? Would he stay for a 4 hour show? What happens if he gets bored of the whole thing? 

[default_]

LOL@people that thinks they are better fans than others just because they are on a forum or are old. Bunch of elitist bulshit.

[Gackt]

15 minutes ago, default_ said:

LOL@people that thinks they are better fans than others just because they are on a forum or are old. Bunch of elitist bulshit.

Seeing the ones clinging to nostalgia treat Fortus like an ex-wife and Izzy like their lost love is pretty hilarious though  

[Tom-Ass]

Maybe people just don't like Fortus because they don't think he is a good fit.  I know that is the case for me. 

[PatrickS77]

1 hour ago, tremolo said:

Slash doesn’t seem to prepare for some of the songs. Especially the CD material. Just noodling and improvised arrangements that sound horrible and don’t service the songs properly. Dude, you’re getting paid millions, listen to the fucking songs, work on something that sounds good and that shows that you put some fucking effort and dedication in it. He’s absolutely capable of doing it, the guy could do wonders!! I remember when this whole thing started and fans were wondering (and hopeful) about the renditions of the CD material with this new band, mostly about how Slash could turn those new songs into something special. And what happened... just lazy improvisation.

Be glad that he plays those CD songs at all and move on. He doesn't have to learn shit his 3 stand ins did note for note. Also he doesn't have to play the other stuff note for note the way he recorded them 30 years ago. That would be boring as hell. Slash does it great the way he does it now.

Edited January 16, 2018 by PatrickS77

[PatrickS77]

6 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

Maybe people just don't like Fortus because they don't think he is a good fit.  I know that is the case for me. 

For me it's mostly because I would have preferred a clean cut. Throw out everything that has to do with the FakeGNR era and get the Appetite/Illusion guys back. But obviously Axl would never allow that.

[Tom-Ass]

1 hour ago, tremolo said:

Don’t give me the age bs. There are almost countless examples of musicians who have been crushing it on stage way past their early 50s.

Axl’s voice is the most clear example. And I don’t mean The Rasp vs Mickey, I mean the guy’s pitch is horrendous. I do understand that singing some of those songs today poses a bigger challenge because as you age, your vocal cords can’t pull the same tricks as easily, especially if you don’t train constantly. BUT Axl is knowledgeable enough about music, keys, harmonies, etc so he could adapt the songs to his voice so he could make them work on his favour instead of struggling. But the guy doesn’t seem to put any effort in it.

Slash doesn’t seem to prepare for some of the songs. Especially the CD material. Just noodling and improvised arrangements that sound horrible and don’t service the songs properly. Dude, you’re getting paid millions, listen to the fucking songs, work on something that sounds good and that shows that you put some fucking effort and dedication in it. He’s absolutely capable of doing it, the guy could do wonders!! I remember when this whole thing started and fans were wondering (and hopeful) about the renditions of the CD material with this new band, mostly about how Slash could turn those new songs into something special. And what happened... just lazy improvisation.

 

They have not been bringing their top game to the shows, and that is insulting considering how much they are charging for the tickets.

I agree with you about Axl.. While I don't believe it is for lack of effort, he doesn't sound good on half the songs and anyone that says anything else is fooling themselves.. Slash on the other hand is what is making it work.. The guy is a beast close to the entire night and helps to pick up the slack when Axl is struggling.  The line up could be better too but it is what it is for now I guess.

While the tickets are vastly over priced and the product isn't nearly as good as good as it was back in the day. I do not think it is for lack of effort and they are still good to great shows/experiences. I do think for the most part they are giving it 100% every night.. 

Also I could care less how prepared Slash is for CD songs.. Most of them aren't going to be any good either way... Such a waste of space...

 

[Modano09]

2 hours ago, tremolo said:

Don’t give me the age bs. There are almost countless examples of musicians who have been crushing it on stage way past their early 50s.

Axl’s voice is the most clear example. And I don’t mean The Rasp vs Mickey, I mean the guy’s pitch is horrendous. I do understand that singing some of those songs today poses a bigger challenge because as you age, your vocal cords can’t pull the same tricks as easily, especially if you don’t train constantly. BUT Axl is knowledgeable enough about music, keys, harmonies, etc so he could adapt the songs to his voice so he could make them work on his favour instead of struggling. But the guy doesn’t seem to put any effort in it.

Slash doesn’t seem to prepare for some of the songs. Especially the CD material. Just noodling and improvised arrangements that sound horrible and don’t service the songs properly. Dude, you’re getting paid millions, listen to the fucking songs, work on something that sounds good and that shows that you put some fucking effort and dedication in it. He’s absolutely capable of doing it, the guy could do wonders!! I remember when this whole thing started and fans were wondering (and hopeful) about the renditions of the CD material with this new band, mostly about how Slash could turn those new songs into something special. And what happened... just lazy improvisation.

 

They have not been bringing their top game to the shows, and that is insulting considering how much they are charging for the tickets.

I don’t care if people who attend the shows think it’s the best show they’ve seen in their lives. Once again, I’m not seeing it from a “customer satisfaction” perspective (since to many just having A and S on stage is more than enough, regardless of everything else), but from how the shows have been half-assed considering their skills and what they are actually capable of.

 

I’ve made this point pretty clear in previous posts. If you still don’t want to or can’t understand, it’s beyond me.

I find it hard to sit on a message board and accuse a band that played 148 well received shows all over the world the last 2 years of being lazy. The majority of people just want to go see a good show and it's a good show. Not everyone is running to the internet to nit pick and complain that Adler wasn't there and they didn't like Axl's hat. 

[©GnrPersia]

3 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

I find it hard to sit on a message board and accuse a band that played 148 well received shows all over the world the last 2 years of being lazy. The majority of people just want to go see a good show and it's a good show. Not everyone is running to the internet to nit pick and complain that Adler wasn't there and they didn't like Axl's hat. 

this