Rustycage Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 When you're calling the fans crazy in defense of Axl "certifiable" Rose, I have to chuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lies They Tell Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 When you're calling the fans crazy in defense of Axl "certifiable" Rose, I have to chuckle.I'm still not defending Axl here. I don't even know what Axl's view is on the whole subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Słash Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 So now you can win a "personalized" Autograph from Axl, what it will be? The same old printed Autograph which they have made 1000 copies?https://www.facebook.com/gunsnroses/photos/a.355783028068.156550.10901008068/10153617112248069/?type=3&theater 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustycage Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 When you're calling the fans crazy in defense of Axl "certifiable" Rose, I have to chuckle.I'm still not defending Axl here. I don't even know what Axl's view is on the whole subject.We know what his view is based on the view of his "management." A bunch of crazy negative complainers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lies They Tell Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 When you're calling the fans crazy in defense of Axl "certifiable" Rose, I have to chuckle.I'm still not defending Axl here. I don't even know what Axl's view is on the whole subject.We know what his view is based on the view of his "management." A bunch of crazy negative complainers.Axl and his management team don't necessarily agree on everything though. But you could be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustycage Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 When you're calling the fans crazy in defense of Axl "certifiable" Rose, I have to chuckle.I'm still not defending Axl here. I don't even know what Axl's view is on the whole subject.We know what his view is based on the view of his "management." A bunch of crazy negative complainers.Axl and his management team don't necessarily agree on everything though. But you could be right.What makes you think they don't agree? Just what happens to those that disagree with him?(From what we DO know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lies They Tell Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 When you're calling the fans crazy in defense of Axl "certifiable" Rose, I have to chuckle.I'm still not defending Axl here. I don't even know what Axl's view is on the whole subject.We know what his view is based on the view of his "management." A bunch of crazy negative complainers.Axl and his management team don't necessarily agree on everything though. But you could be right.What makes you think they don't agree? Just what happens to those that disagree with him?(From what we DO know)I don't make assumptions of people. Maybe they agree, maybe they don't. I don't know cause I haven't heard it from Axl's mouth. Anyway, this is getting out of topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 It is only Axl fans,Lol! It is not only Axl fans. Clearly you should visit other message boards more often.Name a fanbase which has adopted '''Remember, said artist does not owe you anything'' and wears it like a badge of pride, repeating it at every opportunity as a defensive mechanism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustycage Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I don't make assumptions of people. Maybe they agree, maybe they don't. I don't know cause I haven't heard it from Axl's mouth. Anyway, this is getting out of topic.If you don't make assumptions then what are you doing on a GNR board? That is all GNR fans have is assumption since ya know... GNR never say shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lies They Tell Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 It is only Axl fans,Lol! It is not only Axl fans. Clearly you should visit other message boards more often.Name a fanbase which has adopted '''Remember, said artist does not owe you anything'' and wears it like a badge of pride, repeating it at every opportunity as a defensive mechanism?Why don't you name one Axl fan who does that?Bands don't owe their fans anything. It's just the way it is. It has nothing to do with badges of pride or whatever. Some people act like bands owe their fans something and usually there's always people who remind them that "No they don't". This happens on pretty much every single music related message board. And not even on music related boards only. Even sport fans act like their idols owe them something. Some fans are absolutely crazy.I don't make assumptions of people. Maybe they agree, maybe they don't. I don't know cause I haven't heard it from Axl's mouth. Anyway, this is getting out of topic.If you don't make assumptions then what are you doing on a GNR board? That is all GNR fans have is assumption since ya know... GNR never say shit.I come here, in case there's some news. Sometimes I give my opinions on certain stuff etc... But really, let's not spam this thread. This has nothing to do with the subject anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustycage Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 The moment you open your mouth and talk about a future project or show and create the demand, you owe it to them to deliver. Can't deal with it? Keep your mouth shut. The last thing to do is to blame your fans for a sense of entitlement because you personally fail to deliver.It is not a new theory that when you want to see an example of what NOT to do as a band, look at GNR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) I'll say this, I bet most, not all but most celebrities really don't like their fans all that much. Yes they appreciate the fact that they get to live the life they live because they have fans, but truth be told they probably don't really like them or do they really care what they think.I say this because someone quoted celebrities from different areas saying how much they love their fans. But really what do you expect them to say? Only Axl really is open about not giving a rat's ass. Most of the others are probably blowing smoke up your ass so that you keep spending money on them.Think about it logically, people don't get good at music or acting or sports because they want to have fans. They do it because they love their given passion. Fans are something that comes along later. Sure they are probably glad they have them, so they can live the life they want. As long as you keep spending money on them, they will tell you whatever you want to hear. But behind close doors, I bet most celebs hate their fans. They show up at their house, bother them when they are with their families, keep them from doing normal things like go to the store. I bet it's really fucking frustrating. Its like being in a prison of your own making. Bottom line, don't believe the crap celebs say when they say "I love my fans, I owe everything to them." bescause that's a bunch of bull Shit really. They got to where they are in life because of their own hard work (at whatever skill they have), their talent, and some lucky breaks along the way. But it sure as hell isn't because of their fans. I can honestly respect someone like Axls position on this topic, and I agree with him, he doesn't own me Shit. I would love a reunion and a new album (with the classic line up), but he doesn't owe it to me. I bought the cds and the records, they work I didn't get screwed there. When I payed to see him in concert twice, he showed up and played. What else can I ask for really? I'm not saying this as an Axl defender, but to all celebs in general. If you like a certain actor and pay to go see their movie, you usually get what you payed for. If I go see my favorite athlete play, unless they are hurt, they usually play. So again I got what I played for. They don't owe me anything beyond that. What do they owe me? I don't understand this mentality... Edited September 22, 2015 by Iron MikeyJ 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 It is only Axl fans,Lol! It is not only Axl fans. Clearly you should visit other message boards more often.Name a fanbase which has adopted '''Remember, said artist does not owe you anything'' and wears it like a badge of pride, repeating it at every opportunity as a defensive mechanism?Why don't you name one Axl fan who does that?Bands don't owe their fans anything. It's just the way it is. It has nothing to do with badges of pride or whatever. Some people act like bands owe their fans something and usually there's always people who remind them that "No they don't". This happens on pretty much every single music related message board. And not even on music related boards only. Even sport fans act like their idols owe them something. Some fans are absolutely crazy.You really want me to name an Axl fan who says that? How long have you got? I could provide a list. Heck, just go to HTGTH and you will see somebody say it soon enough.But some artists do feel they owe their fans something, or are those quotes I posted by Michael Jackson 'lies'? Elvis Presley also felt he had a great obligation to his fanbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I agree that as a musician or actor or athlete, you owe it to your fans and yourself to give it all you got when you are performing. I agree there, nobody wants to pay for someone to give 50%. But beyond giving me my monies worth, what else do they owe us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I'll say this, I bet most, not all but most celebrities really don't like their fans all that much. Yes they appreciate the fact that they get to live the life they live because they have fans, but truth be told they probably don't really like them or do they really care what they think.I say this because someone quoted celebrities from different areas saying how much they love their fans. But really what do you expect them to say? Only Axl really is open about not giving a rat's ass. Most of the others are probably blowing smoke up your ass so that you keep spending money on them.Think about it logically, people don't get good at music or acting or sports because they want to have fans. They do it because they love their given passion. Fans are something that comes along later. Sure they are probably glad they have them, so they can live the life they want. As long as you keep spending money on them, they will tell you whatever you want to hear. But behind close doors, I bet most celebs hate their fans. They show up at their house, bother them when they are with their families, keep them from doing normal things like go to the store. I bet it's really fucking frustrating. Its like being in a prison of your own making.Bottom line, don't believe the crap celebs say when they say "I love my fans, I owe everything to them." bescause that's a bunch of bull Shit really. They got to where they are in life because of their own hard work (at whatever skill they have), their talent, and some lucky breaks along the way. But it sure as hell isn't because of their fans. I can honestly respect someone like Axls position on this topic, and I agree with him, he doesn't own me Shit. I would love a reunion and a new album (with the classic line up), but he doesn't owe it to me. I bought the cds and the records, they work I didn't get screwed there. When I played to see him in concert twice, he showed up and played. What else can I ask for really? I'm not saying this as an Axl defender, but to all celebs in general. If you like a certain actor and pay to go see their movie, you usually get what you payed for. If I go see my favorite athlete play, unless they are hurt, they usually play. So again I got what I played for. They don't owe me anything beyond that. What do they owe me? I don't understand this mentality...Where are your sales going to come from if not from your fanbase?I see it as a two-way relationship. Skill, hard work and lucky breaks are valid enough and get you 50% of the way but without fans buying the end products of your craft (i.e. albums and tickets), you won't make it out of your own bedroom or garage band. If someone did not attend his gigs and buy his records, Axl would have probably ponced around LA for awhile in a series of unsuccessful hair bands, before ending up in prison (or dead). It was the aggrandizement of GN'R's fanbase, from the earliest club shows to the huge arena tours, which propelled him to the levels of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lies They Tell Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 You really want me to name an Axl fan who says that? How long have you got? I could provide a list. I kinda doubt that there's many. But honestly speaking I don't actually care, so you don't have to do it if you don't want to. But some artists do feel they owe their fans something, or are those quotes I posted by Michael Jackson 'lies'? Elvis Presley also felt he had a great obligation to his fanbase.I've never said that there wouldn't be artist who at least say that they owe everything to their fans. Maybe some even genuinely feel that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) I'll say this, I bet most, not all but most celebrities really don't like their fans all that much. Yes they appreciate the fact that they get to live the life they live because they have fans, but truth be told they probably don't really like them or do they really care what they think.I say this because someone quoted celebrities from different areas saying how much they love their fans. But really what do you expect them to say? Only Axl really is open about not giving a rat's ass. Most of the others are probably blowing smoke up your ass so that you keep spending money on them.Think about it logically, people don't get good at music or acting or sports because they want to have fans. They do it because they love their given passion. Fans are something that comes along later. Sure they are probably glad they have them, so they can live the life they want. As long as you keep spending money on them, they will tell you whatever you want to hear. But behind close doors, I bet most celebs hate their fans. They show up at their house, bother them when they are with their families, keep them from doing normal things like go to the store. I bet it's really fucking frustrating. Its like being in a prison of your own making.Bottom line, don't believe the crap celebs say when they say "I love my fans, I owe everything to them." bescause that's a bunch of bull Shit really. They got to where they are in life because of their own hard work (at whatever skill they have), their talent, and some lucky breaks along the way. But it sure as hell isn't because of their fans. I can honestly respect someone like Axls position on this topic, and I agree with him, he doesn't own me Shit. I would love a reunion and a new album (with the classic line up), but he doesn't owe it to me. I bought the cds and the records, they work I didn't get screwed there. When I played to see him in concert twice, he showed up and played. What else can I ask for really? I'm not saying this as an Axl defender, but to all celebs in general. If you like a certain actor and pay to go see their movie, you usually get what you payed for. If I go see my favorite athlete play, unless they are hurt, they usually play. So again I got what I played for. They don't owe me anything beyond that. What do they owe me? I don't understand this mentality... Where are your sales going to come from if not from your fanbase?I see it as a two-way relationship. Skill, hard work and lucky breaks are valid enough and get you 50% of the way but without fans buying the end products of your craft (i.e. albums and tickets), you won't make it out of your own bedroom or garage band. If someone did not attend his gigs and buy his records, Axl would have probably ponced around LA for awhile in a series of unsuccessful hair bands, before ending up in prison (or dead). It was the aggrandizement of GN'R's fanbase, from the earliest club shows to the huge arena tours, which propelled him to the levels of success.Which I agree with you there, without fans then Axl is like any other musician that never "made it". But has he ever personally let you down? As in cancel a show you attended? I personally feel every album he ever released is in the good, very good, or great category. So I can't see how he let you down there. I agree his album output is not what it could have or should have been. But I don't feel Axl "owes" me more albums. Yes I would love to have more, but I don't feel entitled to them, especially if they are of lesser quality, which that's how I feel CD2 would be anyways. I guess that's why I feel how I feel about that, because I feel it will be lesser than CD, which I would rather never get any new music, than something less than stellar. Edited September 22, 2015 by Iron MikeyJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 What a stupid discussion Of course musicians don't owe their fans anything in the literal sense. When they say they "owe their fans everything", or similar expressions, it is in the sense that they know they wouldn't be where they if it weren't for the fans and that they are grateful for what the fans have done. That isn't a statement of actually owing them anything, which unfortunately some fans here seem to think . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I'll say this, I bet most, not all but most celebrities really don't like their fans all that much. Yes they appreciate the fact that they get to live the life they live because they have fans, but truth be told they probably don't really like them or do they really care what they think.I say this because someone quoted celebrities from different areas saying how much they love their fans. But really what do you expect them to say? Only Axl really is open about not giving a rat's ass. Most of the others are probably blowing smoke up your ass so that you keep spending money on them.Think about it logically, people don't get good at music or acting or sports because they want to have fans. They do it because they love their given passion. Fans are something that comes along later. Sure they are probably glad they have them, so they can live the life they want. As long as you keep spending money on them, they will tell you whatever you want to hear. But behind close doors, I bet most celebs hate their fans. They show up at their house, bother them when they are with their families, keep them from doing normal things like go to the store. I bet it's really fucking frustrating. Its like being in a prison of your own making.Bottom line, don't believe the crap celebs say when they say "I love my fans, I owe everything to them." bescause that's a bunch of bull Shit really. They got to where they are in life because of their own hard work (at whatever skill they have), their talent, and some lucky breaks along the way. But it sure as hell isn't because of their fans. I can honestly respect someone like Axls position on this topic, and I agree with him, he doesn't own me Shit. I would love a reunion and a new album (with the classic line up), but he doesn't owe it to me. I bought the cds and the records, they work I didn't get screwed there. When I played to see him in concert twice, he showed up and played. What else can I ask for really? I'm not saying this as an Axl defender, but to all celebs in general. If you like a certain actor and pay to go see their movie, you usually get what you payed for. If I go see my favorite athlete play, unless they are hurt, they usually play. So again I got what I played for. They don't owe me anything beyond that. What do they owe me? I don't understand this mentality... Where are your sales going to come from if not from your fanbase?I see it as a two-way relationship. Skill, hard work and lucky breaks are valid enough and get you 50% of the way but without fans buying the end products of your craft (i.e. albums and tickets), you won't make it out of your own bedroom or garage band. If someone did not attend his gigs and buy his records, Axl would have probably ponced around LA for awhile in a series of unsuccessful hair bands, before ending up in prison (or dead). It was the aggrandizement of GN'R's fanbase, from the earliest club shows to the huge arena tours, which propelled him to the levels of success.Which I agree with you there, without fans then Axl is like any other musician that never "made it". But has he ever personally let you down? As in cancel a show you attended? I personally feel every album he ever released is in the good, very good, or great category. So I can't see how he let you down there. I agree his album output is not what it could have or should have been. But I don't feel Axl "owes" me more albums. Yes I would love to have more, but I don't feel entitled to them, especially if they are of lesser quality, which that's how I feel CD2 would be anyways. I guess that's why I feel how I feel about that, because I feel it will be lesser than CD, which I would rather never get any new music, than something less than stellar.Well I'm not perhaps the best guy to ask (it is no secret around here that I find the guy a bit of a dickhead) but I was being more general about fan-artist relations. I will say this regarding Axl, that Axl's biggest failing is his communication issues (and some snarky comments from his management). Yes, I would say that his fans deserve a bit more respect in this regard. It is small recompense to keep them informed. Ask yourself this: have you ever known a band who remotely functions like new gnr. It is total chaos with their fans are in a sort of limbo land for significant time spans. Doing the odd informative interview, with some plans, is not much to ask for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 When you're calling the fans crazy in defense of Axl "certifiable" Rose, I have to chuckle.You have to realize that certain posters here carry a huge agenda. You could post that Sky is blue and Lucky Charm cereal has marshmallows in it and Soulmonster would argue your points. He comes here to ridicule, educate and try and "win" arguments that only he sees as arguments. The others take things way to literal. Obvious a band doesn't "owe" a random fan anything. I find it hilarious that the two examples brought up in here are two artists that are universally despised on this forum. Make a topic about either one and 90% of the comments will be negative. Now they are being quoted - as a good thing - because they made negative comments about fans? Too funny. So to prove that Ted Bundy want a bad guy, let's quite Jeffrey Dahmer for his opinion on murder Bottom line. To be successful a band has to treat their fanbase with respect. To deny that because of Lars Ullrich and Tommy Lee? Fucking hilarious. Especially because I promise you there are quotes out there from them where they say they owe their success to their fans. To even argue this point is ridiculous. Soulmonster and lies the tell can disagree and insult people all they want. Deep down they know it's true. There is a reason Axl has the reputation he does. Leave this forum and go to other music forums and see what people think about the late starts, ego, women beating, keeping the GnR name, the 14 million dollar album, revolving door of musicians, etc. Yes. I shouldn't have said every band. Way to miss the actual point. MOST successful bands treat their fans with respect. MOST successful bands give fans all the credit in the world. Only a tiny fraction of successful bands don't. And a band can put out the greatest album of all time. But if the bands don't buy it, they band will continue playing bars. It's a relationship. It's a two way street. Without one side of it,,,,,,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) What a stupid discussion Of course musicians don't owe their fans anything in the literal sense. When they say they "owe their fans everything", or similar expressions, it is in the sense that they know they wouldn't be where they if it weren't for the fans and that they are grateful for what the fans have done. That isn't a statement of actually owing them anything, which unfortunately some fans here seem to think .No. No fans actually think that. It's just that some people like to argue everything. When somebody tells you "dude, I will be there in a minute".......most of us realize what that means. But you pull out your watch and set the timer. Then after sixty seconds you call the guy and say he is a liar. You constantly miss the actual main point because you are so busy looking for any reason to educate and win arguments. It's weird. Just relax and chat about GnR. That's what the rest if us come to do. How about this. You are the smartest poster in the world. You have educated all of us. You have won every argument. Your argument record is 274 wins and 0 losses. And we have all cried because of your genius ridicules. Better?Now can you drop all that and just post like a normal person? We aren't the kids who picked on you in high school. Edited September 22, 2015 by Apollo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) What a stupid discussion Of course musicians don't owe their fans anything in the literal sense. When they say they "owe their fans everything", or similar expressions, it is in the sense that they know they wouldn't be where they if it weren't for the fans and that they are grateful for what the fans have done. That isn't a statement of actually owing them anything, which unfortunately some fans here seem to think .No. No fans actually think that.I disagree. I think it is clear that some posters actually feel that Axl owes them something, beyond just being grateful for the fruitful relationship that has existed between artist and fans. They think he owes they explanations, they think he owes they music, they think he owes them a reunion. Etc. Edited September 22, 2015 by alfierose removed word 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustycage Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 When you write checks, you owe the payout. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) @DD,I agree 100% that no other band operates even remotely like this one does, but at this point it's part of the fun of it, at least for me. I guess I just gave up caring. I cared 10 years ago, I cared 15 years ago, but not anymore. I would be excited for a reunion, but that and a reunion album is really all that's left for me to get excited about. Even if CD2 was announced for this tuesday, I wouldn't really care all that much. Sure I would go and buy it, but it wouldn't be this amazing event in my mind, not anymore. At this point for me anyways, it's like watching a train wreck. Ive seen too much to look away now. Edited September 22, 2015 by Iron MikeyJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfierose Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 This is going off topic again. Start a new thread in Civil War please if you want to continue it. Thanks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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