Fernando's answer *UK SUBS post PG19*

[Ali]

Brazil is also a mixed raced state. Even if you called someone a 'Brazilian bastard' that would not be technically racist as you could just as easily be refering to someone caucasian, black or Indo-American!

According to the liberal US media, they'd all be "White Hispanic".

But you know what's interesting? Back in May I pointed out here the ONLY tweet to come from Axl's account regarding a well publicized tragedy was the one about the Brazil club fire, and it truly did not seem like something Axl himself would have tweeted. I pointed out that while many other musicians routinely express their condolences and support for tragedies such as Newtown, Boston, Texas, Aurora, Hurricane Sandy and Oklahoma, there was absolutely no mention of any of them through Axl's twitter account - but there was an extremely caring, sympathetic, supportive tweet about the Brazil club tragedy. Things like that don't help the divide between Team Brazil and American fans.

I don't see the significance of that at all. Everyone has issues or situations that strike close to home for different reasons, be it personal experience/history, geographic proximity to yourself or loved ones.

I'm American and no issue with it, just like I had no issue with some people I know being particularly horrified by what happened in Newtown because they were parents themselves.

Ali

[SoulMonster]

She is a true hero. Think how long she had to work at isolating an emotionally crippled millionaire rock star and exploiting his disability before being in a position to demand control of his career an actually getting it. that is seriously long hard all consuming work.

Even with that singular interpretation of the events she deserves a whole lot more admiration from us than she gets

Edited August 27, 2013 by SoulMonster

[AndreCC]

I don't understand. I had seen Fernando's moronic statement, but what's with the "UK SUBS POST PG19" thing?

What was that all about? The topic is a bit unclear... what post is he referring to? and was this a new tweet?

[Axl_morris]

I don't understand. I had seen Fernando's moronic statement, but what's with the "UK SUBS POST PG19" thing?

What was that all about? The topic is a bit unclear... what post is he referring to? and was this a new tweet?

see the thread in support section, I think it may have been moved.

[DieselDaisy]

Racist or not, it is ridiculous that Axl and his band are being managed by a Brazilian housekeeper.

Is it more ridiculous than that the Beatles were managed by a department store clerk (Brian Epstein), that BeeGees were managed by a copywriter (Robert Stigwood), or that Led Zeppelin were managed by a sheet metal worker (Peter Grant)?

It is completely moronic to hold persons' earlier positions against them in their current job. We all work up the ladder and no one should be ashamed of where we started or how far we have managed to climb. What matters is how we do the job we have, not what job we did some time before.

So Beta used to be a housekeeper? More fucking power to her.

Peter Grant had been a Tour Manager (Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Gene Vincent et al.) and a Manager (Jeff Beck, The Yardbirds) for five years before Led Zeppelin were formed in 1968. Brian Epstein was director of NEMS, a musical retail store, which he developed into the leading music store of the North West before he discovered The Beatles.

So? You are just cementing my point that none of these guys went from whatever "lowly" occupation they had straight into a high-level management job. They all had interesting career paths that started fairly low but through skills they managed to rise to positions higher up. Beta started out as a nanny, but she got the management job because of a long tenure as a PA to Axl Rose. It is as moronic to hold her earlier housekeeping job against her as holding whatever job Grant or Epstein had at some time against them.

Did someone ever blame Grant's earlier job as a sheet metal worker when his bands didn't reach their potential? I bet they never did. Do people consistently belittle Beta by referring to her as a housekeeper? You know they do. Is this because people don't know she gained industry experience through her PA job? Maybe. Could it be that members here have a hard time grasping the fact that EVEN female housekeepers can rise to the "pinnacle of jobs" of facilitating the wishes of an establish rock artist? I am sure about it.

I wish people would simply stop making asses of themselves by trying to diss Beta be referring to her as a housekeeper, and Brazilian at that. Criticise her from the known mistakes she does in her job, not because she happened to live the American dream.

But Grant progressed within the music industry and had already worked with artists like Little Richard and Chuck on their UK tours, before progressing to management himself for Beck, The Yardbirds and Zep. Brian had less experience when he discovered his first band, the Beatles. But Epstein did have a book full of Liverpudian and London industry contacts and experience at managing a leading music retail chain. You cannot compare this to Beta who has risen to band management, through, essentially her personal relationship with W. Axl Rose. One other point. Epstein and Grant were 'proper' managers in the sense that they, managed bands outside their 'main' (for lack of a better term) acts. Epstein also managed Gerry and the Pacemakers, Cilla Black et al. Grant also managed Bad Company. It is blatently obvious that Team Brazil do not see themselves as, representing anyone else (and who would have them?). They are not a professional outfit and the amount of mistakes they have made makes this blatantly obvious.

[AndreCC]

I don't understand. I had seen Fernando's moronic statement, but what's with the "UK SUBS POST PG19" thing?

What was that all about? The topic is a bit unclear... what post is he referring to? and was this a new tweet?

see the thread in support section, I think it may have been moved.

Thank You Axl_Morris!

So Fernando classified UK SUBS' attempt on making a "poll thread" to see if everyone was interested in having a section with the camp participating as being PG19?

[SoulMonster]

I don't understand. I had seen Fernando's moronic statement, but what's with the "UK SUBS POST PG19" thing?

What was that all about? The topic is a bit unclear... what post is he referring to? and was this a new tweet?

No, it was UK SUBS posting his thoughts on Fernando's comments. You will find the post on page 19 (or 18).

[AndreCC]

I don't understand. I had seen Fernando's moronic statement, but what's with the "UK SUBS POST PG19" thing?

What was that all about? The topic is a bit unclear... what post is he referring to? and was this a new tweet?

No, it was UK SUBS posting his thoughts on Fernando's comments. You will find the post on page 19 (or 18).

Thank You SoulMonster!

[SoulMonster]

Racist or not, it is ridiculous that Axl and his band are being managed by a Brazilian housekeeper.

Is it more ridiculous than that the Beatles were managed by a department store clerk (Brian Epstein), that BeeGees were managed by a copywriter (Robert Stigwood), or that Led Zeppelin were managed by a sheet metal worker (Peter Grant)?

It is completely moronic to hold persons' earlier positions against them in their current job. We all work up the ladder and no one should be ashamed of where we started or how far we have managed to climb. What matters is how we do the job we have, not what job we did some time before.

So Beta used to be a housekeeper? More fucking power to her.

Peter Grant had been a Tour Manager (Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Gene Vincent et al.) and a Manager (Jeff Beck, The Yardbirds) for five years before Led Zeppelin were formed in 1968. Brian Epstein was director of NEMS, a musical retail store, which he developed into the leading music store of the North West before he discovered The Beatles.

So? You are just cementing my point that none of these guys went from whatever "lowly" occupation they had straight into a high-level management job. They all had interesting career paths that started fairly low but through skills they managed to rise to positions higher up. Beta started out as a nanny, but she got the management job because of a long tenure as a PA to Axl Rose. It is as moronic to hold her earlier housekeeping job against her as holding whatever job Grant or Epstein had at some time against them.

Did someone ever blame Grant's earlier job as a sheet metal worker when his bands didn't reach their potential? I bet they never did. Do people consistently belittle Beta by referring to her as a housekeeper? You know they do. Is this because people don't know she gained industry experience through her PA job? Maybe. Could it be that members here have a hard time grasping the fact that EVEN female housekeepers can rise to the "pinnacle of jobs" of facilitating the wishes of an establish rock artist? I am sure about it.

I wish people would simply stop making asses of themselves by trying to diss Beta be referring to her as a housekeeper, and Brazilian at that. Criticise her from the known mistakes she does in her job, not because she happened to live the American dream.

But Grant progressed within the music industry and had already worked with artists like Little Richard and Chuck on their UK tours, before progressing to management himself for Beck, The Yardbirds and Zep. Brian had less experience when he discovered his first band, the Beatles. But Epstein did have a book full of Liverpudian and London industry contacts and experience at managing a leading music retail chain. You cannot compare this to Beta who has risen to band management, through, essentially her personal relationship with W. Axl Rose. One other point. Epstein and Grant were 'proper' managers in the sense that they, managed bands outside their 'main' (for lack of a better term) acts. Epstein also managed Gerry and the Pacemakers, Cilla Black et al. Grant also managed Bad Company. It is blatently obvious that Team Brazil do not see themselves as, representing anyone else (and who would have them?). They are not a professional outfit and the amount of mistakes they have made makes this blatantly obvious.

But then what you are saying is that a possible valid criticism against Beta was that she advanced from a mere PA position to management, and that is not what I am talking about at all. I am talking about people criticising Beta from at some time having been a housekeeper, as if she jumped direly from housekeeping to bandkeeping or that having "housekeeping" on your CV somehow disqualifies you from management jobs. We are simply talking about two different things.

[username]

Racism has NEVER been allowed on this forum by any admin and we take any and all allegations extremely seriously -- To suggest otherwise is wrong at best and purposely misleading at worst. Please use the report function if you feel there are racist comments being made. Feel free to also PM myself or HV.

How anyone else decides to run their site is up to them. Mygnr has grown significantly over the last 12 months and we have plans for further development and expansion -- I accept there are a very small minority who are only out to slate the band (some have since been banned) but at mygnr we have the biggest community world wide and we accept differing opinions as long as they are not breaking any forum rules.

Personally, I'd rather be known for freedom of speech than a controlled censored environment.

95% of the members of this forum are Pro Axl and are open to GNR under the current format -- for ANYONE to dismiss a percentage of that 95% for being disinterested or disheartened as 'the enemy' or 'not REAL fans' (seriously, WTF?) is laughable.

So a few people take advantage of that, why not concentrate on what the majority of fans have to say? Good and/or bad?

This isn't a moan at all, far from it -- but I'm proud to represent mygnr under this ownership. Whilst (sorry Dari!) there are things we've got wrong and I do regret; we're addressing that now and I'm proud to be the owner of this site and of our ever growing community.

Carry on

And this is why he's the man in charge!

Because calling something by it's name is never racist. They call themselves Team BRAZIL. So why the hell would it not be OK for someone else to call them Brazilian? I never understood why people find "Negro" racist either. It's the same as saying I'm Caucasian. Just because some racist people start using a word, doesn't mean that we as a people should act like that word is racist all of a sudden. Slightly off-topic, but these things bug me. Call it what it is. It's not racism.

Should we refer to "the Brazilian wax as "the wax" from now on as well? Because that seems pretty darn racist to me to!

Hell, maybe Axl's Brazilian nanny has Brazilian-waxed her Brazilian muff. Still no racism!

It really depends on the context doesn't it? I mean it can be classed as racist if you're using it in a derogatory sense. I mean there's a difference for instance between calling a black guy a black guy and calling him a fucking black bastard is there not?

Yes, but in that example the "fucking" and the "bastard" make it an insult. Not the "black" part. That, in itself, is not racist at all.

[DieselDaisy]

Well I agree with you (most people have former shit jobs which they would rather delete from their CV). I think the main problem with Team Brazil is, the uneasy blend of the personal (in that they serve Axl) and band affairs (in that they are meant to manage Guns N' Roses). They have all progressed as Axl's surrogate family. But a manager is meant to be a manager of a 'band' and occasionally disagree with his band - or even veto decisions. Are Team Brazil seriiously going to produce the important question which any good manager would put to him right now: ''right, Axl. Time to stop fucking about. Time to release a record?''

[One.In.A.Million]

I do think that GN'R need a proper management structure which involves a team outside of the camp, and team Brazil. A band like Guns NEEDS to be pushed, and it needs a manager who knows the business inside and out. Not saying that team Brazil don't have good intentions but we all know that they need a manager who has vast experience and can get things done. I know Fernando will probably disagree with me on this one, but I honestly think at least in regards to albums and releases, they need a seasoned manager acting on their behalf.

[Apollo]

Racist or not, it is ridiculous that Axl and his band are being managed by a Brazilian housekeeper.

Is it more ridiculous than that the Beatles were managed by a department store clerk (Brian Epstein), that BeeGees were managed by a copywriter (Robert Stigwood), or that Led Zeppelin were managed by a sheet metal worker (Peter Grant)?

It is completely moronic to hold persons' earlier positions against them in their current job. We all work up the ladder and no one should be ashamed of where we started or how far we have managed to climb. What matters is how we do the job we have, not what job we did some time before.

So Beta used to be a housekeeper? More fucking power to her.

Its comes down to performance.

If she was doing a bang up job and everything was running smoothly, no one would give a good god damn what her former job was. The former job is used as a taunt as commentary on the (seemingly) inadequate job she is doing with the gig. It all has a sort of "well, what did you expect" tone.

EXACTLY.

That's what guys like Soulmonster and Volcano don't get. They are so obsessed in their "must defend Axl at all costs" mentality that they fail to see the forest through the trees. Logic goes completely out the window with these guys on all issues concerning Axl.

If Beta and her children were doing a great job managing GnR, then people would be praising them on here. Their story SHOULD be a feel-good story, worthy of all our praise and admiration. Heck, their story should make a great movie. Instead, in terms of the band GnR, it has been an absolute failure. That's why people are mad. That's why people bring up their backstory. Because it shows that they clearly are not experienced or knowledgable enough to run a million dollar band. And bringing up 3-4 examples of people from similiar backgrounds who found success as managers is ludicrious. Soulmonster as the guy who constantly brings up numbers and percentages, you should know better than to use that argument. For every one guy that "makes" it there are a hundred that fail.

No new music.

Insulting fans.

Failed concert release.

Failed movie theatre run.

Bowling alleys. Weddings. Baseball cards.

Failed band sponsored website.

Failed latest tour.

OR

CD in 2008.........CD2 in 2011...........CD3 in 2014

Successful tours, not raising ticket prices

Successful DVD release

Successful band sponsored website

Fan Friendly communication with GnR's millions of fans

One of those examples is a failure

One of those examples is a success

One of those examples will bring dissapointment and disgust from Axl's fans

One of those examples will bring praise from Axl's fans

************************

IMO, fernando should spend more time concentrating on running the band rather than worrying and crying about what a few people are saying on an internet rock forum.

And if the band is going to be concerned with what fans on an internet forum say, how about concentrating on the 90% of them that are POSITIVE about the band. The die-hard supporters who really just crave new GnR music and occassional updates from the band, rather than concentrating on the 4-5 negative people?

[AndreCC]

After reading all of UK SUBS posts and Fernando's as well (and all the people that commented).

I disagree with the 95% margin of people who are Pro Axl. However i do agree that i doubt anyone is here without a minimum interest on the current band. We're all interested in new music and new things from the new band and we're all looking forward to it.

To me the last Fernando's tweet is as insulting as the previous one. SOON is something we have heard for 14 years or more and it's not clear. It would be more fair if he said like... Look we have plans for next year, but nothing is for certain.

That would be the way to approach it. That would be saying something! But i guess that's too hard to do.

In any case i have never seen any racist comments against Fernando or Team Brazil here, sure i've seen some of the "house keeper" mentions, but is that really insulting?? Wasn't Beta a house Keeper anyways? Isn't she probably a house keeper presently even though that's not her "professional thing" at the moment?... how can that be so negative?...

Anyways, like i believe most of you are, i'm willing to give them the benefit of a doubt so we can try to be all on the same page. So Team Brazil it's up to you now!

[The Linguini Occurrence]

Brazil is also a mixed raced state. Even if you called someone a 'Brazilian bastard' that would not be technically racist as you could just as easily be refering to someone caucasian, black or Indo-American!

According to the liberal US media, they'd all be "White Hispanic".

But you know what's interesting? Back in May I pointed out here the ONLY tweet to come from Axl's account regarding a well publicized tragedy was the one about the Brazil club fire, and it truly did not seem like something Axl himself would have tweeted. I pointed out that while many other musicians routinely express their condolences and support for tragedies su;ch as Newtown, Boston, Texas, Aurora, Hurricane Sandy and Oklahoma, there was absolutely no mention of any of them through Axl's twitter account - but there was an extremely caring, sympathetic, supportive tweet about the Brazil club tragedy. Things like that don't help the divide between Team Brazil and American fans.

I don't see the significance of that at all. Everyone has issues or situations that strike close to home for different reasons, be it personal experience/history, geographic proximity to yourself or loved ones.

I'm American and no issue with it, just like I had no issue with some people I know being particularly horrified by what happened in Newtown because they were parents themselves.

Ali

Last time I checked, Axl and his bandmates are Americans who live in America. So based on what you just said, "his" tweets should have acknowledged those American tragedies if any. Remember we are talking about a guy who used to wear American flag shorts and jackets.

[SoulMonster]

Well I agree with you (most people have former shit jobs which they would rather delete from their CV). I think the main problem with Team Brazil is, the uneasy blend of the personal (in that they serve Axl) and band affairs (in that they are meant to manage Guns N' Roses). They have all progressed as Axl's surrogate family. But a manager is meant to be a manager of a 'band' and occasionally disagree with his band - or even veto decisions. Are Team Brazil seriiously going to produce the important question which any good manager would put to him right now: ''right, Axl. Time to stop fucking about. Time to release a record?''

And that is a good question which I don't think we can answer that just yet. We will have to wait and see. And try not to jump to conclusions .

Personally I think they should take a course in public relations. But that is of minor importance. It is whether they can carry out the band's objectives in terms of releases and touring that matters to me. And so far the touring bit seems to be doing great. As for releases, well, we haven't had anything yet, but I highly doubt that is Team Brazil's fault

[SoulMonster]

Racist or not, it is ridiculous that Axl and his band are being managed by a Brazilian housekeeper.

Is it more ridiculous than that the Beatles were managed by a department store clerk (Brian Epstein), that BeeGees were managed by a copywriter (Robert Stigwood), or that Led Zeppelin were managed by a sheet metal worker (Peter Grant)?

It is completely moronic to hold persons' earlier positions against them in their current job. We all work up the ladder and no one should be ashamed of where we started or how far we have managed to climb. What matters is how we do the job we have, not what job we did some time before.

So Beta used to be a housekeeper? More fucking power to her.

Its comes down to performance.

If she was doing a bang up job and everything was running smoothly, no one would give a good god damn what her former job was. The former job is used as a taunt as commentary on the (seemingly) inadequate job she is doing with the gig. It all has a sort of "well, what did you expect" tone.

EXACTLY.

That's what guys like Soulmonster and Volcano don't get. They are so obsessed in their "must defend Axl at all costs" mentality that they fail to see the forest through the trees. Logic goes completely out the window with these guys on all issues concerning Axl.

Thanks for the insults, Groghan, it's good to know you are consistent in your approach to others' posts.

What many people fail at when trying to assess Team Brazil's job performance, is that they don't know what Team Brazil is supposed to do. Members here again and again say that they have failed because we haven't had new music yet, or whatever things we expect managers to succeed at, but Team Brazil aren't hired by us, they are Axl's employees and only fail when they don't do what he asks them to do. I am not saying only Axl's at fault here, just that we can't assign blame between Axl and Team Brazil before we know what Axl wanted his management to do, only then can we point fingers and say, "They only did what Axl asked of them", or, "They failed at their tasks".

In other words, what has happened since Team Brazil took over can be EXACTLY what Axl wanted. Team Brazil can have done their jobs to perfection.

With this understanding there is very little for us to use when analysing their performance. We know they have failed at public relations. We know they have succeeded at running numerous tours. We know they have failed at social media. That is basically all. And I say that is very little to jump off the fence and start slagging or praising.

You can continue your ridiculous mantra about this being me just "defending Axl", because, obviously, you either have some problems reading or thinking...no, wait, let's not be closed-minded here, it could surely be both, but fact is that I am very careful in slagging anyone before I actually know they have done something wrong. And they don't work for me.

[Apollo]

Racist or not, it is ridiculous that Axl and his band are being managed by a Brazilian housekeeper.

Is it more ridiculous than that the Beatles were managed by a department store clerk (Brian Epstein), that BeeGees were managed by a copywriter (Robert Stigwood), or that Led Zeppelin were managed by a sheet metal worker (Peter Grant)?

It is completely moronic to hold persons' earlier positions against them in their current job. We all work up the ladder and no one should be ashamed of where we started or how far we have managed to climb. What matters is how we do the job we have, not what job we did some time before.

So Beta used to be a housekeeper? More fucking power to her.

Its comes down to performance.

If she was doing a bang up job and everything was running smoothly, no one would give a good god damn what her former job was. The former job is used as a taunt as commentary on the (seemingly) inadequate job she is doing with the gig. It all has a sort of "well, what did you expect" tone.

EXACTLY.

That's what guys like Soulmonster and Volcano don't get. They are so obsessed in their "must defend Axl at all costs" mentality that they fail to see the forest through the trees. Logic goes completely out the window with these guys on all issues concerning Axl.

Thanks for the insults, Groghan, it's good to know you are consistent in your approach to others' posts.

What many people fail at when trying to assess Team Brazil's job performance, is that they don't know what Team Brazil is supposed to do. Members here again and again say that they have failed because we haven't had new music yet, or whatever things we expect managers to succeed at, but Team Brazil aren't hired by us, they are Axl's employees and only fail when they don't do what he asks them to do. I am not saying only Axl's at fault here, just that we can't assign blame between Axl and Team Brazil before we know what Axl wanted his management to do, only then can we point fingers and say, "They only did what Axl asked of them", or, "They failed at their tasks".

In other words, what has happened since Team Brazil took over can be EXACTLY what Axl wanted. Team Brazil can have done their jobs to perfection.

With this understanding there is very little for us to use when analysing their performance. We know they have failed at public relations. We know they have succeeded at running numerous tours. We know they have failed at social media. That is basically all. And I say that is very little to jump off the fence and start slagging or praising.

You can continue your ridiculous mantra about this being me just "defending Axl", because, obviously, you either have some problems reading or thinking...no, wait, let's not be closed-minded here, it could surely be both, but fact is that I am very careful in slagging anyone before I actually know they have done something wrong. And they don't work for me.

Besides being a bit hypocritical in your comments about me insulting you..........as you always make negative personal comments about me in your responses (including this one)..........you actually make some valid points. And let's not forget that you have posted that you come here not to chat with other GnR fans, but to "educate, ridicule and win." But whatever. I think you are an arrogant prick who just loves to argue and gets some weird joy out of trying to ridicule people you disagree with. You think I have problems reading or thinking and am close-minded. Good - in real life we'd never hang out. BUT...........

You do make some valid points in your little rant.

You are making an assumption though, you agree with that, right? What you are saying isn't a FACT. You are just throwing out an alternative idea as to what might be happening. I think the fact that Beta told Axl that she would leave his life if he DiDN"T make her the manager of the band really throws a wrench into your theory. And, using your theory, we can't assign "praise" to Beta either.

But none-the-less:

Beta and her children could be doing 100% what Axl wants them to do. He could be 100% happy with their job performance. In terms of what that means for Axl, as the head of GnR - good for him. He's found a woman/family to replace a need he has in his life - good for all of them. I think she has taken advantage of a mentally unstable person in a quest to live off of his millions of dollars. BUT it's not my life, and Axl is free to do whatever he wants with his life and money.

I'm agreeing with you. IF Axl is happy with the job that Beta/kids are doing........good for them!!!!!!!!!!!!

To be honest with you, I'd rather NOT even know the name of Beta and Fernado and Del and Vanessa. I'd rather not ever talk about them. I'd much rather be sitting here debating with people over which of the three post-Slash GnR albums was the best. Is Soulmonster a better song than Better. Is Atlas Shrugged better than Shackler's Revenge.

BUT in terms of how that effects fans of the band, their .......Axl's.........goal has been a failure, IMO. Since Beta and Fernando have made themselves public figures concerning their positions with the band, then it's only natural for people to blame them for the band's failures. Especially when those two make negative comments about fans.

But yes. If your scenario is correct, it still sucks as a fan.

Your point has merit though. We don't know what is going on behind the scenes. And who we should really blame.

[Ali]

Brazil is also a mixed raced state. Even if you called someone a 'Brazilian bastard' that would not be technically racist as you could just as easily be refering to someone caucasian, black or Indo-American!

According to the liberal US media, they'd all be "White Hispanic".

But you know what's interesting? Back in May I pointed out here the ONLY tweet to come from Axl's account regarding a well publicized tragedy was the one about the Brazil club fire, and it truly did not seem like something Axl himself would have tweeted. I pointed out that while many other musicians routinely express their condolences and support for tragedies su;ch as Newtown, Boston, Texas, Aurora, Hurricane Sandy and Oklahoma, there was absolutely no mention of any of them through Axl's twitter account - but there was an extremely caring, sympathetic, supportive tweet about the Brazil club tragedy. Things like that don't help the divide between Team Brazil and American fans.

I don't see the significance of that at all. Everyone has issues or situations that strike close to home for different reasons, be it personal experience/history, geographic proximity to yourself or loved ones.

I'm American and no issue with it, just like I had no issue with some people I know being particularly horrified by what happened in Newtown because they were parents themselves.

Ali

Last time I checked, Axl and his bandmates are Americans who live in America. So based on what you just said, "his" tweets should have acknowledged those American tragedies if any. Remember we are talking about a guy who used to wear American flag shorts and jackets.

Based on what I just wrote, Axl has loved ones (i.e. Beta) who are from Brazil, so that may be why it hit closer to home for him. Of all the litany of reasons to criticize Axl, from lateness, lack of communication, lack of new material, this is rather silly, IMO.

Ali

[magisme]

Let's all just admit it. Beta isn't an awful manager cuz she's a Brazilian housekeeper; she's an awful manager cuz she's incompetent.

[Coma16]

Let's all just admit it. Beta isn't an awful manager cuz she's a Brazilian housekeeper; she's an awful manager cuz she's incompetent.

How competent were Doc and Peter?

[Randy Jesus]

If I remember correctly, that the label wanted proper management in place to release chinese democracy, and they complied with Azoff and team. It isn't saying that Beta and family is bad management, I think it stems from the labels request to have "Professional Management" or what they believe is in their own eyes.

[magisme]

Johnny Delete Button is on the case!

[SoulMonster]

Besides being a bit hypocritical in your comments about me insulting you..........as you always make negative personal comments about me in your responses (including this one)

Only retorting. If you for once managed to not throw insults you'd be amazed that I wouldn't either. Just like I do on a regularly basis when I discuss with people who are able to refrain from ad hominem attacks. But when you start your post by slagging me off then you should know by now what my response will be. It's time you start to learn that you have the power to steer conversations by being a good example.

..........you actually make some valid points.

I always do.

And let's not forget that you have posted that you come here not to chat with other GnR fans, but to "educate, ridicule and win."

Trust me, I will never forget about your consistent lies about me, not as long as the mods here allow you to continue to spread them.

But whatever. I think you are an arrogant prick who just loves to argue and gets some weird joy out of trying to ridicule people you disagree with. You think I have problems reading or thinking and am close-minded. Good - in real life we'd never hang out. BUT...........

Irrelevant.

You do make some valid points in your little rant.

I always do.

You are making an assumption though, you agree with that, right? What you are saying isn't a FACT. You are just throwing out an alternative idea as to what might be happening. I think the fact that Beta told Axl that she would leave his life if he DiDN"T make her the manager of the band really throws a wrench into your theory. And, using your theory, we can't assign "praise" to Beta either.

As long as we have no idea what Team Brazil is paid to do, then we have no way of saying whether they do their job perfunctory or not. Right. You got it.

Beta and her children could be doing 100% what Axl wants them to do. He could be 100% happy with their job performance. In terms of what that means for Axl, as the head of GnR - good for him. He's found a woman/family to replace a need he has in his life - good for all of them. I think she has taken advantage of a mentally unstable person in a quest to live off of his millions of dollars. BUT it's not my life, and Axl is free to do whatever he wants with his life and money.

I'm agreeing with you. IF Axl is happy with the job that Beta/kids are doing........good for them!!!!!!!!!!!!

To be honest with you, I'd rather NOT even know the name of Beta and Fernado and Del and Vanessa. I'd rather not ever talk about them. I'd much rather be sitting here debating with people over which of the three post-Slash GnR albums was the best. Is Soulmonster a better song than Better. Is Atlas Shrugged better than Shackler's Revenge.

Blah blah blah.

BUT in terms of how that effects fans of the band, their .......Axl's.........goal has been a failure, IMO. Since Beta and Fernando have made themselves public figures concerning their positions with the band, then it's only natural for people to blame them for the band's failures.

It might be natural to the likes of you, but it is still wrong. Blaming any manager of GN'R for the band's dysfunction is ludicrous, especially when we have no way of knowing how well Team Brazil is doing the job they have actually been given. If we knew they were assigned to secure release dates by now but failed miserably at doing so, then we could say they are screwing things up, but honestly, how many here believe any lack of releases is due to Team Brazil and not Axl?

Especially when those two make negative comments about fans.

Their public relations efforts -- and people should know by now what I think of them -- is a very small part of their job (presumably). I for one will NOT conclude that they are bad managers just because they are untalented at PR. I hope to think their job involves a whole lot more.

But yes. If your scenario is correct, it still sucks as a fan.

Yeah, I think it sucks equally much regardless of who is to blame.

[D-GenerationX]

In other words, what has happened since Team Brazil took over can be EXACTLY what Axl wanted. Team Brazil can have done their jobs to perfection.

And this makes sense to you?

You think Axl instructed them to make their official site a joke? Make the VIP club deal a total sham and a mess? Release pissy tweets to serve as press releases and pick fights with what's left of the fanbase?

I often say Axl is nuts (just look at my sig) but not THIS nuts.