Fernando's answer *UK SUBS post PG19*

[November_rain]

I don´t know about the racism comments since I am not here 24/7 but I have seen how people used derogatory comments towards them for being brazilian and needless to say the housekeeper, cleaning toilets comments and gibes. If you analyze that stuff is not exactly racism but it is offensive and I kind of understand that Fernando has a bad image of this place sine he and his mother have been bashed and insulted many times. The generalization is not fair either because not all the people hide under the same umbrella and a bunch of rotten apples are giving us a bad name because they are unable to express their discontent in a rational way without crossing the line.

[netcat]

so fanbase keeps asking questions, and you can't give a substantive response, what do you do? you apply *attack is the best form of defence* tactics.

be bitter, stay angry, blame everyone

[SoulMonster]

and ron said going down was an old freddie king cover, they all lie through their asses

When did he do that?

[axlfan88]

Racist or not, it is ridiculous that Axl and his band are being managed by a Brazilian housekeeper.

[Iron MikeyJ]

It amazes me, this forum and its memebers actually scare and intimidate Guns n' Roses. I have been on other gnr forums such as newgnr and they say all the same shit that we do over here, actually its worse there. The mods over there don't really give a shit what you say, positivly or negativly. But because the membership is smaller, that place flies under the radar. HTGTH is a joke of a forum, so im not even gonna waste my time with them.

Mygnr was the first gnr forum I ever joined, even though I was pretty inactive untill a year and a half ago or so. But my feelings are as follows, this forum gets a good mix of all fans. Are we all not entitled to our own opinions? Even though some of those opinions are up setting to the band/management? I don't feel that anyone here has crossed the line, we would just like some honesty from time to time. Most of us lived through the CD saga, and we don't want to do that again. If that means we push the band to try and release music, I fail to see how thats a bad thing.

The bottom line is one of my fav musicians of all time (axl) has in fact surronded himself with yes men, and our little forum tends to be his reality check. He don't like it, management don't like it either. Honestly they are scared of us. Which is ironic imo. The most dangerous band in the world is scared of its fans....

[SoulMonster]

Racist or not, it is ridiculous that Axl and his band are being managed by a Brazilian housekeeper.

Is it more ridiculous than that the Beatles were managed by a department store clerk (Brian Epstein), that BeeGees were managed by a copywriter (Robert Stigwood), or that Led Zeppelin were managed by a sheet metal worker (Peter Grant)?

It is completely moronic to hold persons' earlier positions against them in their current job. We all work up the ladder and no one should be ashamed of where we started or how far we have managed to climb. What matters is how we do the job we have, not what job we did some time before.

So Beta used to be a housekeeper? More fucking power to her.

Edited August 27, 2013 by SoulMonster

[wasted]

We need Suge Knight to bring CD II in on schedule. Hang Jimmy Iovine out the window by his skechers til he puts up the money for 4 music videos.

[SoulMonster]

We need Suge Knight to bring CD II in on schedule. Hang Jimmy Iovine out the window by his skechers til he puts up the money for 4 music videos.

Oh no, Suge was a bodyguard and Jimmy a cleaner, surely they could never be successful managers!

[volcano62]

Soul Monster wins

[SoulMonster]

As for the racism allegation; I agree with everyone saying there isn't any racism here to be worried about. Whether it is just taboo to the members or the mods are good at removing it, I don't know. I just don't see any. But, racism is just discrimination based on ethnicity/race, is discrimination based on prior occupation really any better? If someone were to throw a racist remark at Beta, perhaps by referring to her skin type or where she comes from then I am sure people would attack that poster venomously and that the mods would remove it swiftly. Because racism, after all, is something we have all been taught is really bad. But for some reason people are allowed to continue to criticise Beta for the simple fact that she at one time in her career used to be a housekeeper. For some reason that is apparently more valid as a point of criticism than her being, say, Brazilian, and is not swiftly deleted with suspensions given. I don't get it. Discrimination is discrimination regardless of what form it takes. The problem with racism is not the words themselves but that you imply that someone is less valuable because of where they come from. You attach certain weaknesses to them based on (flawed) group thinking. It is exactly the same with people hurling the "housekeeper" argument against Beta: she is not good enough to be a manager BECAUSE she at one time used to be a housekeeper. It's really quite ugly.

Edited August 27, 2013 by SoulMonster

[wasted]

We need Suge Knight to bring CD II in on schedule. Hang Jimmy Iovine out the window by his skechers til he puts up the money for 4 music videos.

Oh no, Suge was a bodyguard and Jimmy a cleaner, surely they could never be successful managers!

i personally think Beta and Fernando are pretty likely to get what Axl wants doing. The fact they are piping up means they must think something is going to happens. If nothing is going to happen why bother. And I think Axl will do something for them in a way.

[Bards]

Racist or not, it is ridiculous that Axl and his band are being managed by a Brazilian housekeeper.

Is it more ridiculous than that the Beatles were managed by a department store clerk (Brian Epstein), that BeeGees were managed by a copywriter (Robert Stigwood), or that Led Zeppelin were managed by a sheet metal worker (Peter Grant)?

It is completely moronic to hold persons' earlier positions against them in their current job. We all work up the ladder and no one should be ashamed of where we started or how far we have managed to climb. What matters is how we do the job we have, not what job we did some time before.

So Beta used to be a housekeeper? More fucking power to her.

As I said before, the best way to make those comments stop is to not act like a housekeeper who's in completely over her head. But that's not happening.

You don't hear similar comments about Epstein, Stigwood or Grant because of what they were able to accomplish. If they ran those bands into the ground, it'd be a different story.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Bards

[Russel Nash]

As for the racism allegation; I agree with everyone saying there isn't any racism here to be worried about. Whether it is just taboo to the members or the mods are good at removing it, I don't know. I just don't see any. But, racism is just discrimination based on ethnicity/race, is discrimination based on prior occupation really any better? If someone were to throw a racist remark at Beta, perhaps by referring to her skin type or where she comes from then I am sure people would attack that poster venomously and that the mods would remove it swiftly. Because racism, after all, is something we have all been taught is really bad. But for some reason people are allowed to continue to criticise Beta for the simple fact that she at one time in her career used to be a housekeeper. For some reason that is apparently more valid as a point of criticism than her being, say, Brazilian, and is not swiftly deleted with suspensions given. I don't get it. Discrimination is discrimination regardless of what form it takes. The problem with racism is not the words themselves but that you imply that someone is less valuable because of where they come from. You attach certain weaknesses to them based on (flawed) group thinking. It is exactly the same with people hurling the "housekeeper" argument against Beta: she is not good enough to be a manager BECAUSE she at one time used to be a housekeeper. It's really quite ugly.

You don't have nothing to worry about unless you are from SA.

Im not brazilian or mexican, but i see racism or discrimination on almost every thread, mostly by the same ppl.

Racist or not, it is ridiculous that Axl and his band are being managed by a Brazilian housekeeper.

Is it more ridiculous than that the Beatles were managed by a department store clerk (Brian Epstein), that BeeGees were managed by a copywriter (Robert Stigwood), or that Led Zeppelin were managed by a sheet metal worker (Peter Grant)?

It is completely moronic to hold persons' earlier positions against them in their current job. We all work up the ladder and no one should be ashamed of where we started or how far we have managed to climb. What matters is how we do the job we have, not what job we did some time before.

So Beta used to be a housekeeper? More fucking power to her.

As I said before, the best way to make those comments stop is to not act like a housekeeper who's in completely over her head. But that's not happening.

You don't hear similar comments about Epstein, Stigwood or Grant because of what they were able to accomplish. If they ran those bands into the ground, it'd be a different story.

I thought Fernando was the manager.

[D-GenerationX]

Racist or not, it is ridiculous that Axl and his band are being managed by a Brazilian housekeeper.

Is it more ridiculous than that the Beatles were managed by a department store clerk (Brian Epstein), that BeeGees were managed by a copywriter (Robert Stigwood), or that Led Zeppelin were managed by a sheet metal worker (Peter Grant)?

It is completely moronic to hold persons' earlier positions against them in their current job. We all work up the ladder and no one should be ashamed of where we started or how far we have managed to climb. What matters is how we do the job we have, not what job we did some time before.

So Beta used to be a housekeeper? More fucking power to her.

Its comes down to performance.

If she was doing a bang up job and everything was running smoothly, no one would give a good god damn what her former job was. The former job is used as a taunt as commentary on the (seemingly) inadequate job she is doing with the gig. It all has a sort of "well, what did you expect" tone.

[The Linguini Occurrence]

Brazil is also a mixed raced state. Even if you called someone a 'Brazilian bastard' that would not be technically racist as you could just as easily be refering to someone caucasian, black or Indo-American!

According to the liberal US media, they'd all be "White Hispanic".

But you know what's interesting? Back in May I pointed out here the ONLY tweet to come from Axl's account regarding a well publicized tragedy was the one about the Brazil club fire, and it truly did not seem like something Axl himself would have tweeted. I pointed out that while many other musicians routinely express their condolences and support for tragedies such as Newtown, Boston, Texas, Aurora, Hurricane Sandy and Oklahoma, there was absolutely no mention of any of them through Axl's twitter account - but there was an extremely caring, sympathetic, supportive tweet about the Brazil club tragedy. Things like that don't help the divide between Team Brazil and American fans.

Is it more ridiculous than that the Beatles were managed by a department store clerk (Brian Epstein), that BeeGees were managed by a copywriter (Robert Stigwood), or that Led Zeppelin were managed by a sheet metal worker (Peter Grant)?

It is completely moronic to hold persons' earlier positions against them in their current job. We all work up the ladder and no one should be ashamed of where we started or how far we have managed to climb. What matters is how we do the job we have, not what job we did some time before.

So Beta used to be a housekeeper? More fucking power to her.

FTR - I agree with pretty much everything you've said in this thread.

[T.wa.T]

Pp

I think he's lumped all the "Brazilian housekeeper" comments under racism. And he might be right.

Complete horseshit.

Why not just say housekeeper?

Like I said somewhere else, if it was a Brazilian rock band and she was an American housekeeper, she'd be called an American housekeeper. It's a distinguishing characteristic given her position.

But it could still be seen as racist or stereotyping from their point of view.

[phaeryen]

They might have aswell called us terrorists or jihadists. It's all the same, we are the enemy, and "either you are with us... or you are with the terrorists." This is the feeling I get when people dig up big concepts like racism. or sexual harrassement. or some such. flash the big concept around and act like you're hurt, suddenly everything becomes so dead serious and you get to play the victim.

Their position is laughable. LAUGHABLE.

Edited August 27, 2013 by phaeryen

[T.wa.T]

Ive changed my opinion on this.

I don't think were entitled to know what we want about the band.

People have been demanding new music months before they were off tour.

The fun is being taken out of it by knowing every little thing.

Its his business, he's going to run it his way no matter what we say or do.

Isn't it enough that a certain few have drawn their attention?

[EvH]

I don't understand that waste of time from him, if he apologizes, why don't he answer? .______.

I assume that despite Manets and NGOG being amongst the more supportive posters here they are being punished for the sins of others.

Even I was guilty of lashing out but at the end of the day I support modern day GNR and will always go to the shows, buy the merch etc.

Fernando doesn't seem to grasp the fact that the 'hate' has an origin. It's not, at least by the genuine fans, perpetrated to please a sense of racism. If they would give 5 minutes of their day to discuss the musical future of GNR the level of angst would reduce remarkably.

Exactly.

[trqster]

Axl should, every other year(...) 'waste' some 30min of his precious time in order to do some Q&A with the fans through a chat and/or radio show. Everyone would be so much happier...

But hey Axl doesn't owes the fans shit, so......

[Gia]

Axl should, every other year(...) 'waste' some 30min of his precious time in order to do some Q&A with the fans through a chat and/or radio show. Everyone would be so much happier...

But hey Axl doesn't owes the fans shit, so......

30 minutes? You're asking for way too much

Life doesn't owe you a happy ending

[Facekicker]

No soup for you

[DieselDaisy]

Racist or not, it is ridiculous that Axl and his band are being managed by a Brazilian housekeeper.

Is it more ridiculous than that the Beatles were managed by a department store clerk (Brian Epstein), that BeeGees were managed by a copywriter (Robert Stigwood), or that Led Zeppelin were managed by a sheet metal worker (Peter Grant)?

It is completely moronic to hold persons' earlier positions against them in their current job. We all work up the ladder and no one should be ashamed of where we started or how far we have managed to climb. What matters is how we do the job we have, not what job we did some time before.

So Beta used to be a housekeeper? More fucking power to her.

Peter Grant had been a Tour Manager (Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Gene Vincent et al.) and a Manager (Jeff Beck, The Yardbirds) for five years before Led Zeppelin were formed in 1968. Brian Epstein was director of NEMS, a musical retail store, which he developed into the leading music store of the North West before he discovered The Beatles.

[SoulMonster]

Racist or not, it is ridiculous that Axl and his band are being managed by a Brazilian housekeeper.

Is it more ridiculous than that the Beatles were managed by a department store clerk (Brian Epstein), that BeeGees were managed by a copywriter (Robert Stigwood), or that Led Zeppelin were managed by a sheet metal worker (Peter Grant)?

It is completely moronic to hold persons' earlier positions against them in their current job. We all work up the ladder and no one should be ashamed of where we started or how far we have managed to climb. What matters is how we do the job we have, not what job we did some time before.

So Beta used to be a housekeeper? More fucking power to her.

Peter Grant had been a Tour Manager (Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Gene Vincent et al.) and a Manager (Jeff Beck, The Yardbirds) for five years before Led Zeppelin were formed in 1968. Brian Epstein was director of NEMS, a musical retail store, which he developed into the leading music store of the North West before he discovered The Beatles.

So? You are just cementing my point that none of these guys went from whatever "lowly" occupation they had straight into a high-level management job. They all had interesting career paths that started fairly low but through skills they managed to rise to positions higher up. Beta started out as a nanny, but she got the management job because of a long tenure as a PA to Axl Rose. It is as moronic to hold her earlier housekeeping job against her as holding whatever job Grant or Epstein had at some time against them.

Did someone ever blame Grant's earlier job as a sheet metal worker when his bands didn't reach their potential? I bet they never did. Do people consistently belittle Beta by referring to her as a housekeeper? You know they do. Is this because people don't know she gained industry experience through her PA job? Maybe. Could it be that members here have a hard time grasping the fact that EVEN female housekeepers can rise to the "pinnacle of jobs" of facilitating the wishes of an establish rock artist? I am sure about it.

I wish people would simply stop making asses of themselves by trying to diss Beta be referring to her as a housekeeper, and Brazilian at that. Criticise her from the known mistakes she does in her job, not because she happened to live the American dream.

[CoolRanchDressing]

She is a true hero. Think how long she had to work at isolating an emotionally crippled millionaire rock star and exploiting his disability before being in a position to demand control of his career an actually getting it. that is seriously long hard all consuming work.