Fernando's answer *UK SUBS post PG19*

[Coma16]

In other words, what has happened since Team Brazil took over can be EXACTLY what Axl wanted. Team Brazil can have done their jobs to perfection.

And this makes sense to you?

You think Axl instructed them to make their official site a joke? Make the VIP club deal a total sham and a mess? Release pissy tweets to serve as press releases and pick fights with what's left of the fanbase?

I often say Axl is nuts (just look at my sig) but not THIS nuts.

Before they took over there was no website. Well actually there was but the most up to date news was that DJ was the new lead guitarist.

[SoulMonster]

In other words, what has happened since Team Brazil took over can be EXACTLY what Axl wanted. Team Brazil can have done their jobs to perfection.

And this makes sense to you?

You think Axl instructed them to make their official site a joke? Make the VIP club deal a total sham and a mess? Release pissy tweets to serve as press releases and pick fights with what's left of the fanbase?

I often say Axl is nuts (just look at my sig) but not THIS nuts.

No, I just made an example using exaggeration. The point I was trying to get across is that we can't blame Team Brazil for the lack of releases. Sure, we can blame them for the horrendous PR and other MINOR things, but not the things that should matter which is creating, releasing and playing music.

[Apollo]

In other words, what has happened since Team Brazil took over can be EXACTLY what Axl wanted. Team Brazil can have done their jobs to perfection.

And this makes sense to you?

You think Axl instructed them to make their official site a joke? Make the VIP club deal a total sham and a mess? Release pissy tweets to serve as press releases and pick fights with what's left of the fanbase?

I often say Axl is nuts (just look at my sig) but not THIS nuts.

Great post D-Gen.

**********

Thanks for the detailed response Soul.

Unfortunately, all the negative things or "advice" you give to me......you'll never do those yourself. You apply a different standard to posters than you act on yourself.

Looks like you educated me, ridiculed me, and "won" the debate - all in the same post. Congrats.

But all that aside, the only real interesting thing out of that that self serving rant is an answer to this question.

You say that we shouldn't say negative things about the job Beta and her children are doing, because we don't know what Axl's instructions are for them. BUT you constantly give them praise for their "accomplishments" as the band's manager. Using your logic, how do we know that all these things you list as successes aren't really failures as they might be going AGAINST what Axl tells them to do? (Why not apply the same standard to yourself that you are applying to others?).

Edited August 27, 2013 by Groghan

[guitarpatch]

Racist or not, it is ridiculous that Axl and his band are being managed by a Brazilian housekeeper.

Is it more ridiculous than that the Beatles were managed by a department store clerk (Brian Epstein), that BeeGees were managed by a copywriter (Robert Stigwood), or that Led Zeppelin were managed by a sheet metal worker (Peter Grant)?

It is completely moronic to hold persons' earlier positions against them in their current job. We all work up the ladder and no one should be ashamed of where we started or how far we have managed to climb. What matters is how we do the job we have, not what job we did some time before.

So Beta used to be a housekeeper? More fucking power to her.

Its comes down to performance.

If she was doing a bang up job and everything was running smoothly, no one would give a good god damn what her former job was. The former job is used as a taunt as commentary on the (seemingly) inadequate job she is doing with the gig. It all has a sort of "well, what did you expect" tone.

EXACTLY.

That's what guys like Soulmonster and Volcano don't get. They are so obsessed in their "must defend Axl at all costs" mentality that they fail to see the forest through the trees. Logic goes completely out the window with these guys on all issues concerning Axl.

If Beta and her children were doing a great job managing GnR, then people would be praising them on here. Their story SHOULD be a feel-good story, worthy of all our praise and admiration. Heck, their story should make a great movie. Instead, in terms of the band GnR, it has been an absolute failure. That's why people are mad. That's why people bring up their backstory. Because it shows that they clearly are not experienced or knowledgable enough to run a million dollar band. And bringing up 3-4 examples of people from similiar backgrounds who found success as managers is ludicrious. Soulmonster as the guy who constantly brings up numbers and percentages, you should know better than to use that argument. For every one guy that "makes" it there are a hundred that fail.

No new music.

Insulting fans.

Failed concert release.

Failed movie theatre run.

Bowling alleys. Weddings. Baseball cards.

Failed band sponsored website.

Failed latest tour.

OR

CD in 2008.........CD2 in 2011...........CD3 in 2014

Successful tours, not raising ticket prices

Successful DVD release

Successful band sponsored website

Fan Friendly communication with GnR's millions of fans

One of those examples is a failure

One of those examples is a success

One of those examples will bring dissapointment and disgust from Axl's fans

One of those examples will bring praise from Axl's fans

************************

IMO, fernando should spend more time concentrating on running the band rather than worrying and crying about what a few people are saying on an internet rock forum.

And if the band is going to be concerned with what fans on an internet forum say, how about concentrating on the 90% of them that are POSITIVE about the band. The die-hard supporters who really just crave new GnR music and occassional updates from the band, rather than concentrating on the 4-5 negative people?

My thoughts on these circumstances that people seem to continually bring up as criticism w management.

Failed latest tour - Well they got gigs that they wanted to play as well as their guaranteed fees, so if that is what the prerogative was then it was successful. How many legs have there been since 2010? I think they realized that they probably have saturated the market and toured these places enough for a while. Thus the reason for the "break". A lot of bands do this. Release album, tour extensively behind the album until people have gotten their fill. Take a break and let the market breathe and then do it all over again. It's not rocket science, case in point Nine Inch Nails / Trent. They always come back....

No new music - Well, if they are taking a break, then that's what the plan is. Guaranteed management/Axl & co. have a 3/6/9/12/18 month plan for what they will be doing and what their goals are. Maybe new music isn't on that list over the next 6 - 9 months. Also, a lot of this process is dependent on what the Artist wants to release. If there's nothing deemed releasable by the ARTIST or LABEL then what are they supposed to do? If Axl / the band doesn't want to release the music that's currently in the "vault", management is not going to sway their mind. If Interscope doesn't want to release anything because of a busy 3rd and 4th quarter or whatever other reason, then they won't. Happens to big artists all the time.

Insulting fans. - Agreed to some level. I'm sure they've been more than cordial in public situations, but some of the stuff that has come out online lately has been pretty dicey. It only takes one response in the internet/social media age.

Failed concert release. - A lot of concert/dvd releases for major acts are failures or don't do so well. Plus the show they want to release has numerous covers that eat into profitability and synch issues. Things prob got delayed, and we'll see if it comes out. These things are mainly released for the hardcore fans (us) / and some good youtube/palladia promotion. No one wants to lose their shirt over it.

Failed movie theatre run. - Again, these are hard to do well. Lucky for the production company to break even. Not surprised if it didn't do too hot.

Bowling alleys. - come on, this was a special show at an intimate venue. the brooklyn bowl is one of the best/famous places to see a show in NYC/Brooklyn. The bowling alley part makes it a bit "hipster" and a lot of great bands play through there pretty regularly. Would you have a problem if they played a surprise gig at the Henry Fonda Theatre in LA before a headlining slot at Coachella? What about the Ritz gigs? They had a free night and did something cool. Same deal...

Weddings. - A lot of upper level bands play these events. No secret that it's mostly for $ or a favor. Pretty sure their booking agent gets a high 5 for any of them that they can fit in. If they have a free night and you have a million bucks to blow maybe they will play your party too!

Baseball cards. - Yeah didn't get this move at all. Plus the rumors that he hasn't signed any of the cards to boot.

Failed band sponsored website.- Good idea, but probably doesn't fit in with how the organization operates. These things work well when there is more of a direct line of contact between the band members and fans. Ultimately it hasn't shown much worth for the price of admission.

How well a manager does comes down to whether or not they are reaching the goals that set out to complete w the Artist. Only people they have to answer to is the band. That being said, it would probably be a good idea to always be cordial with fans. A lot of big time managers don't have a problem with that. That being said there are not a lot of bands that have a hardcore fanbase as polarizing as GNR. So probably some uncharted waters going on there.

[The Linguini Occurrence]

Brazil is also a mixed raced state. Even if you called someone a 'Brazilian bastard' that would not be technically racist as you could just as easily be refering to someone caucasian, black or Indo-American!

According to the liberal US media, they'd all be "White Hispanic".

But you know what's interesting? Back in May I pointed out here the ONLY tweet to come from Axl's account regarding a well publicized tragedy was the one about the Brazil club fire, and it truly did not seem like something Axl himself would have tweeted. I pointed out that while many other musicians routinely express their condolences and support for tragedies su;ch as Newtown, Boston, Texas, Aurora, Hurricane Sandy and Oklahoma, there was absolutely no mention of any of them through Axl's twitter account - but there was an extremely caring, sympathetic, supportive tweet about the Brazil club tragedy. Things like that don't help the divide between Team Brazil and American fans.

I don't see the significance of that at all. Everyone has issues or situations that strike close to home for different reasons, be it personal experience/history, geographic proximity to yourself or loved ones.

I'm American and no issue with it, just like I had no issue with some people I know being particularly horrified by what happened in Newtown because they were parents themselves.

Ali

Last time I checked, Axl and his bandmates are Americans who live in America. So based on what you just said, "his" tweets should have acknowledged those American tragedies if any. Remember we are talking about a guy who used to wear American flag shorts and jackets.

Based on what I just wrote, Axl has loved ones (i.e. Beta) who are from Brazil, so that may be why it hit closer to home for him. Of all the litany of reasons to criticize Axl, from lateness, lack of communication, lack of new material, this is rather silly, IMO.

Ali

First - it's really a stretch to assume Axl is the one who sent the tweet about the Brazil tragedy. It was not even close to sounding like something he would say, and as we all know he has openly acknowledged more than once that he's not necessarily the one sending tweets under his name (see the Kimmel interview).

Secondly - it seems like you're saying Axl cares only about Brazilians because of Beta and her family, and that he doesn't give a fuck about Americans? If you're saying that's the reason why "he" tweeted only about the Brazil tragedy and not about any of the American tragedies I listed, then you're unfairly portraying him in a negative light (I'm being very diplomatic with my choice of words there) and making the divide between Team Brazil and American fans even wider. You're feeding the fire.

To be clear, I'm not criticizing Axl for tweets going out under his name or not going out under his name. I'm looking at the bigger picture, which is that it seems Beta/Team Brazil is controlling Axl so much that they are even controlling his Twitter account to give fans the false impression that his heart is only with Brazilians and not with Americans. If that's the case it is a really selfish, crappy thing to do. And that's one example of why there's a portion of the fanbase that doesn't feel very comfortable having a group of non-Americans controlling one of the most popular American bands in history.

It's also not lost on the fanbase that Team Brazil strongly influenced Axl to boycott the Rock Hall of Fame induction in part because it was a much bigger deal to American fans, and meaningless to most everyone outside of the states.

[WTF?]

In other words, what has happened since Team Brazil took over can be EXACTLY what Axl wanted. Team Brazil can have done their jobs to perfection.

And this makes sense to you?

You think Axl instructed them to make their official site a joke? Make the VIP club deal a total sham and a mess? Release pissy tweets to serve as press releases and pick fights with what's left of the fanbase?

I often say Axl is nuts (just look at my sig) but not THIS nuts.

I lost respect for Axl the day i read his respond to Madison

the old man is a total nutcase.

[Ali]

Brazil is also a mixed raced state. Even if you called someone a 'Brazilian bastard' that would not be technically racist as you could just as easily be refering to someone caucasian, black or Indo-American!

According to the liberal US media, they'd all be "White Hispanic".

But you know what's interesting? Back in May I pointed out here the ONLY tweet to come from Axl's account regarding a well publicized tragedy was the one about the Brazil club fire, and it truly did not seem like something Axl himself would have tweeted. I pointed out that while many other musicians routinely express their condolences and support for tragedies su;ch as Newtown, Boston, Texas, Aurora, Hurricane Sandy and Oklahoma, there was absolutely no mention of any of them through Axl's twitter account - but there was an extremely caring, sympathetic, supportive tweet about the Brazil club tragedy. Things like that don't help the divide between Team Brazil and American fans.

I don't see the significance of that at all. Everyone has issues or situations that strike close to home for different reasons, be it personal experience/history, geographic proximity to yourself or loved ones.

I'm American and no issue with it, just like I had no issue with some people I know being particularly horrified by what happened in Newtown because they were parents themselves.

Ali

Last time I checked, Axl and his bandmates are Americans who live in America. So based on what you just said, "his" tweets should have acknowledged those American tragedies if any. Remember we are talking about a guy who used to wear American flag shorts and jackets.

Based on what I just wrote, Axl has loved ones (i.e. Beta) who are from Brazil, so that may be why it hit closer to home for him. Of all the litany of reasons to criticize Axl, from lateness, lack of communication, lack of new material, this is rather silly, IMO.

Ali

First - it's really a stretch to assume Axl is the one who sent the tweet about the Brazil tragedy. It was not even close to sounding like something he would say, and as we all know he has openly acknowledged more than once that he's not necessarily the one sending tweets under his name (see the Kimmel interview).

Secondly - it seems like you're saying Axl cares only about Brazilians because of Beta and her family, and that he doesn't give a fuck about Americans? If you're saying that's the reason why "he" tweeted only about the Brazil tragedy and not about any of the American tragedies I listed, then you're unfairly portraying him in a negative light (I'm being very diplomatic with my choice of words there) and making the divide between Team Brazil and American fans even wider. You're feeding the fire.

To be clear, I'm not criticizing Axl for tweets going out under his name or not going out under his name. I'm looking at the bigger picture, which is that it seems Beta/Team Brazil is controlling Axl so much that they are even controlling his Twitter account to give fans the false impression that his heart is only with Brazilians and not with Americans. If that's the case it is a really selfish, crappy thing to do. And that's one example of why there's a portion of the fanbase that doesn't feel very comfortable having a group of non-Americans controlling one of the most popular American bands in history.

It's also not lost on the fanbase that Team Brazil strongly influenced Axl to boycott the Rock Hall of Fame induction in part because it was a much bigger deal to American fans, and meaningless to most everyone outside of the states.

First, yes, it is an assumption. But, it came from his account. So, not that big of an assumption, IMO.

Second, no I'm not saying that at all. You're completely misconstruing my words. Having one particular tragedy hit closer to home than another because of personal experience, geographical proximity or the personal experiences or geographic proximity of your loved ones (e.g. friends and family), does not exclude caring or having some emotional reaction to another tragedy. It just means, some things hit closer to home, cut a little deeper for all of us because we are all the sum accumulation of experiences.

As far as your other statements, sorry, but they seem a bit unfounded and tending towards xenophobia. There is nothing to support your theory that Axl's decision to boycott the RNR HOF ceremony was influenced by Team Brazil.

Furthermore, your comments about " there's a portion of the fanbase that doesn't feel very comfortable having a group of non-Americans controlling one of the most popular American bands in history" are only serving to help prove Fernando's concerns to be founded.

Ali

[The Linguini Occurrence]

First, yes, it is an assumption. But, it came from his account. So, not that big of an assumption, IMO.

Second, no I'm not saying that at all. You're completely misconstruing my words. Having one particular tragedy hit closer to home than another because of personal experience, geographical proximity or the personal experiences or geographic proximity of your loved ones (e.g. friends and family), does not exclude caring or having some emotional reaction to another tragedy. It just means, some things hit closer to home, cut a little deeper for all of us because we are all the sum accumulation of experiences.

As far as your other statements, sorry, but they seem a bit unfounded and tending towards xenophobia. There is nothing to support your theory that Axl's decision to boycott the RNR HOF ceremony was influenced by Team Brazil.

Furthermore, your comments about " there's a portion of the fanbase that doesn't feel very comfortable having a group of non-Americans controlling one of the most popular American bands in history" are only serving to help prove Fernando's concerns to be founded.

Ali

So even though Axl has publicly stated multiple times that he's not necessarily the one sending tweets under his name, and the tweet in question sounded nothing like something he has said in the past or would ever say, you still don't think it's a big assumption? Well it's your prerogative to take that stance, I guess.

But that IS what you said. You rationalized that Axl did send that one tweet about Brazil, and that he did so because his heart is with Brazil because of Beta and her family - which is great, but you're also giving that as a reason why he did NOT send any message of condolence or support for those impacted by all the American tragedies I listed. You can't have it both ways, you can't say he acknowledged the Brazilian tragedy because he loves Brazilians and he ignored all the American tragedies despite loving Americans. When you give to one and not the other, you're sending a big "Fuck you" to the other.

Are you actually trying to say Beta wanted Axl to attend the induction? Seriously? We heard Axl first express an interest in attending. We heard current members of GNR say the entire original lineup should attend (DJ Ashba: “I think it would be awesome to see, you know, everybody [from the classic GNR lineup] get up on stage and put all the differences aside for one night and just give the fans what they want.”) Did Beta ever indicate she thought it was a good idea for Axl to attend? Can you find even one quote from her encouraging Axl to attend? Do you seriously think Axl changing his mind had nothing to do with Beta? Come on now mate, her silence and his bizarre change of opinion spoke volumes.

Umm ... most of us here, including mods, have acknowledged there's an element of resentment (to put it mildly) by a portion of the fanbase because Axl is seemingly being controlled by a foreign management team. I'm just giving some examples of why I think that resentment exists. Not acknowledging something, right or wrong, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. There are PLENTY of fans who think Team Brazil was behind Axl's decision to not attend the induction. Right or wrong, that is an indisputable fact. As is the indisputable fact that Axl's twitter account expressed condolences for a Brazilian tragedy, but completely ignored every other well publicized American tragedy that has occurred over the past year.

[Gia]

There are so many fights going on here

[Dariablue]

I don't think it's the fact that TB is foreign that makes people upset. They could be American and it wouldn't change anything. It's their actions that people have issues with, not the country they come from.

And I don't think Axl sent that tweet either. It's pointless to argue with the Alis and Soulmonsters because they twist everything, never concede a point and genuinely inject themselves with the Kool Aid.

[Aninha_Hudson]

Just like Jarmo, they never really answer question, they just twist facts so they can "win" arguments. You know what they say about winning on the internet....

[Ali]

First, yes, it is an assumption. But, it came from his account. So, not that big of an assumption, IMO.

Second, no I'm not saying that at all. You're completely misconstruing my words. Having one particular tragedy hit closer to home than another because of personal experience, geographical proximity or the personal experiences or geographic proximity of your loved ones (e.g. friends and family), does not exclude caring or having some emotional reaction to another tragedy. It just means, some things hit closer to home, cut a little deeper for all of us because we are all the sum accumulation of experiences.

As far as your other statements, sorry, but they seem a bit unfounded and tending towards xenophobia. There is nothing to support your theory that Axl's decision to boycott the RNR HOF ceremony was influenced by Team Brazil.

Furthermore, your comments about " there's a portion of the fanbase that doesn't feel very comfortable having a group of non-Americans controlling one of the most popular American bands in history" are only serving to help prove Fernando's concerns to be founded.

Ali

So even though Axl has publicly stated multiple times that he's not necessarily the one sending tweets under his name, and the tweet in question sounded nothing like something he has said in the past or would ever say, you still don't think it's a big assumption? Well it's your prerogative to take that stance, I guess.

But that IS what you said. You rationalized that Axl did send that one tweet about Brazil, and that he did so because his heart is with Brazil because of Beta and her family - which is great, but you're also giving that as a reason why he did NOT send any message of condolence or support for those impacted by all the American tragedies I listed. You can't have it both ways, you can't say he acknowledged the Brazilian tragedy because he loves Brazilians and he ignored all the American tragedies despite loving Americans. When you give to one and not the other, you're sending a big "Fuck you" to the other.

Are you actually trying to say Beta wanted Axl to attend the induction? Seriously? We heard Axl first express an interest in attending. We heard current members of GNR say the entire original lineup should attend (DJ Ashba: I think it would be awesome to see, you know, everybody [from the classic GNR lineup] get up on stage and put all the differences aside for one night and just give the fans what they want.) Did Beta ever indicate she thought it was a good idea for Axl to attend? Can you find even one quote from her encouraging Axl to attend? Do you seriously think Axl changing his mind had nothing to do with Beta? Come on now mate, her silence and his bizarre change of opinion spoke volumes.

Umm ... most of us here, including mods, have acknowledged there's an element of resentment (to put it mildly) by a portion of the fanbase because Axl is seemingly being controlled by a foreign management team. I'm just giving some examples of why I think that resentment exists. Not acknowledging something, right or wrong, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. There are PLENTY of fans who think Team Brazil was behind Axl's decision to not attend the induction. Right or wrong, that is an indisputable fact. As is the indisputable fact that Axl's twitter account expressed condolences for a Brazilian tragedy, but completely ignored every other well publicized American tragedy that has occurred over the past year.

You're completely misconstruing my statements clearly not understanding a thing I wrote. Once more, let me be clear: just because one particular strikes a deep chord with you for whatever reason, that does not make you indifferent towards other situations. Your mistake is in making it a black or white situation. It is not. There are shades of gray.

I never said Beta encouraged Axl to attend the RNR HOF ceremony. Again, you are completely misconstruing my statement. I said there was nothing to support your theory that she and/or Team Brazil influenced Axl's decision to not attend the induction ceremony. There just isn't any evidence to make a definitive statement like you did.

I never denied that some xenophobic portion of the fanbase may take issue with Team Brazil for their nation of origin as opposed to their skill, or lack thereof, at their job, as asinine as that may be. I'm just pointing out that that only serves to credence to Fernando's concerns.

Ali

[Estranged Reality]

I don't think it's the fact that TB is foreign that makes people upset. They could be American and it wouldn't change anything. It's their actions that people have issues with, not the country they come from.

And I don't think Axl sent that tweet either. It's pointless to argue with the Alis and Soulmonsters because they twist everything, never concede a point and genuinely inject themselves with the Kool Aid.

I'm playing devil's advocate here: I think there are plenty of people who use their Brazilian heritage as an easy dismissal of their managerial role, when in fact their lack of apparent experience as managers should be the only thing people are using against them.

I'm not saying it's necessarily a racist thing and I'm not defending TB against all the criticism they deserve for other stuff, frankly I think most of us agree they've displayed some questionable behaviour in the past, but I do think Fernando probably does get a lot of messages that, as a Brazilian guy, I'd probably take the wrong way too. And I'm not saying they're on this forum because as Subs said we don't tolerate that shit, but he said he gets a lot of hate mail on Facebook and I do believe him that he gets plenty of 'little Brazilian bitch' type stuff because I've seen that stuff here before and had to remove it. I do think there's a certain element of mentioning the fact that they were Axl's Brazilian house maids that really encapsulates an easy image of failure rather than, you know, explaining why they might not be the most competent choices to manage a band.

Just sayin'.

[Dariablue]

As someone already addressed, they are Brazilian. Merely putting an adjective, in this case one describing a country, does not make a comment racist. Yes, people do use it a lot, but I don't think it's racist by any means. I understand that he is frustrated by the treatment some people give to his family but personally I think you are reaching. Just sayin'.

[Gia]

As someone already addressed, they are Brazilian. Merely putting an adjective, in this case one describing a country, does not make a comment racist. Yes, people do use it a lot, but I don't think it's racist by any means. I understand that he is frustrated by the treatment some people give to his family but personally I think you are reaching. Just sayin'.

I agree.... I think they're making it out to be something it's not

like I said before they seem to pride themselves as team Brazil... why do they get mad when we refer to them as Brazilian?

[Randy Lahey]

As if she would be referred to as an "American" housekeeper. At the very least, people always bring it up in a derogatory fashion, like just because someone starts out as a housekeeper they can't rise to a higher position in life thru hard work and experience. Peter Grant, who many consider the greatest rock manager of all time, started out as a bouncer. And Suge Knight, who started the biggest rap label of the 90's, started out as a bodyguard for Bobby Brown. You guys don't think Beta learned anything about the music biz from being Axl's personal assistant for all those years?

I'll just quote myself.

[Gia]

As if she would be referred to as an "American" housekeeper. At the very least, people always bring it up in a derogatory fashion, like just because someone starts out as a housekeeper they can't rise to a higher position in life thru hard work and experience. Peter Grant, who many consider the greatest rock manager of all time, started out as a bouncer. And Suge Knight, who started the biggest rap label of the 90's, started out as a bodyguard for Bobby Brown. You guys don't think Beta learned anything about the music biz from being Axl's personal assistant for all those years?

I'll just quote myself.

Okay but why do they refer to themselves as team Brazil?

[Randy Lahey]

I think it probably started out as an affectionate term that Axl and other people in the band and crew used.

[Gia]

I think it probably started out as an affectionate term that Axl and other people in the band and crew used.

So then why is it considered a bad thing to refer them as Brazilian? If it's considered an affectionate term?

[magisme]

Fuck off, ER. You're a dick and everyone hates you.

I'm sure he does get messages like that, and I'm sure they're legitimately offensive. What was bothersome was the insinuation that such things were prominent on the forum. As you stated, they simply are not, because even if such posts are made, they are quickly removed.

Speaking for myself, when I mention the Brazilian nanny thing, it's more just to mark the absurdity of it all. Not that being Brazilian nanny is absurd, rather that it is just so weird and random the way this whole thing has transpired. An LA rock star attaches himself to his ex-girlfriend's Brazilian housekeeper and proceeds to take said housekeeper's family as his own, calling the women his mother, forming a peculiar bond with her home country, and then making her and her children managers of the band. It's just a couple signifiers that trigger a mental image of the whole saga for me, if that makes any sense. I've had a couple so it may not.

[Randy Lahey]

I think it probably started out as an affectionate term that Axl and other people in the band and crew used.

So then why is it considered a bad thing to refer them as Brazilian? If it's considered an affectionate term?

It's not affectionate when people are referring to Beta and Fernando as "that fucking Brazilian housekeeper and her leech of a son."

[Tyler Drama]

I think it probably started out as an affectionate term that Axl and other people in the band and crew used.

So then why is it considered a bad thing to refer them as Brazilian? If it's considered an affectionate term?

It's not affectionate when people are referring to Beta and Fernando as "that fucking Brazilian housekeeper and her leech of a son."

Who said that?!

[Dariablue]

I think it probably started out as an affectionate term that Axl and other people in the band and crew used.

So then why is it considered a bad thing to refer them as Brazilian? If it's considered an affectionate term?

It's not affectionate when people are referring to Beta and Fernando as "that fucking Brazilian housekeeper and her leech of a son."

So it's less offensive if they take out the Brazilian part?

[Randy Lahey]

I think it probably started out as an affectionate term that Axl and other people in the band and crew used.

So then why is it considered a bad thing to refer them as Brazilian? If it's considered an affectionate term?

It's not affectionate when people are referring to Beta and Fernando as "that fucking Brazilian housekeeper and her leech of a son."

So it's less offensive if they take out the Brazilian part?

Somewhat. I can see how Fernando might interpret that above quote as being racist. By the way, I just made that quote up, but I have seen similar things written on here many times before. By referring to her as "Brazilian" in that context, it could be seen as saying she's of lesser importance because she's from a foreign country. At the very least, it's dehumanizing.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Randy Lahey

[Dariablue]

I don't think so at all. I think people are taking them calling themselves Team Brazil (and everything else that goes with that) and turning it back on them. Not racist in the slightest, nor dehumanizing. It is meant to piss people off though just as the housekeeper comments are. It's quite apparent that it's working for those who use it.