Spuffy78 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Yeah but films dont masquerade as a sport.You've managed to completely miss the point. Why watch something fabricated at all?Television, movies.... The Avengers didn't occur in our world, did it? Robert Downey Jr. doesn't really have the capability to fire lasers out of his hands. Chris Hemsworth isn't really a god from another dimension. That all seems a little silly to me. Someone tell these "adults" it's not real. Why watch something that was scripted, with a pre-determined finish? Same with The Daily Show that masquerades as a news show, or The Blair Witch Project that masquerades as a documentary. Big Brother that masquerades as a completely, unscripted, spontaneous thing. Fake, fake, fake & fake.I believe I pointed this out earlier in this thread, but the reason why I find wrestling so laughable isn't that it's scripted. The reason is that it is scripted in such a shitty way.Just look at this You're not wrong but then there's gem's like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Yeah but films dont masquerade as a sport.You've managed to completely miss the point. Why watch something fabricated at all?Television, movies.... The Avengers didn't occur in our world, did it? Robert Downey Jr. doesn't really have the capability to fire lasers out of his hands. Chris Hemsworth isn't really a god from another dimension. That all seems a little silly to me. Someone tell these "adults" it's not real. Why watch something that was scripted, with a pre-determined finish? Same with The Daily Show that masquerades as a news show, or The Blair Witch Project that masquerades as a documentary. Big Brother that masquerades as a completely, unscripted, spontaneous thing. Fake, fake, fake & fake.Naw, you've totally missed your own point.Lenny actually hit the nail right on the head.Nobody over the age of six thinks that the Avengers is real or that Robert Downey Jr really flies around in a suit and shoots people with lasers out of his hands.For the majority of is existence, pro wrestling has always marketed itself as being "real." It's only recently that they've had to label themselves as "entertainment."But as for your last point - sure.Wrestling is on the same lines as General Hospital, As the World Turns, Big Brother and other fake reality shows. I'll give you that.I'm not completely knocking wrestling either. Those guys are amazing athletes. And like I said - I loved pro wrestling as a small child. We went to events all the time. I've still got a Chief Wahoo McDaniel's autographed picture somewhere. I've watched/talked to the Iron Sheik, the Von Erich brothers, Jack and Jerry Brisco, Dusty Rhodes, etc - a bunch of the all time greats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Any promo that involves Hogan is bound to be cringeworthy! BROTHER!!!I'd still watch an AJ vs Paige vibrator on a pole first one to squirt on their opponent wins match though. No matter how poor the promo's. Edited October 22, 2014 by username 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roush Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I'm not defending wrestling's honor. Just the core of the argument. There are so many fictional situations designed to appear real on television, singling out wrestling is silly. It could pretend to be a sport, a show about two trannies arguing, or people freebasing into a friggin volcano -- it's the same premise -- convincing the audience it's real so they make an emotional connection to it. Otherwise, theater, film, literature -- anything with a contrived narrative is pointless. Wrestling is no different. They just use different smoke and mirrors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luciusfunk Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Vince McMahon has been calling WWE sports entertainment for 20+ years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreblack Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 And most fans are in on the joke, it's not still real to everyone dammit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val22 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 It's fun and entertaining.I went to a lot of wrestling matches in Dallas when my kids were younger. Now not so much, but sometimes we still get the PPV shows.My son still has many of his WWE wrestlers and now my granddaughter plays with them. He still has the WWE ring too. He has a lot of the wrestlers that are now dead so it's kind of cool to have their figures to remember them by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) And most fans are in on the joke, it's not still real to everyone dammit!Right but the point is we're being asked why the sceptical attitude, or prevailing sceptical attitude among a great many, because these things carry on and are passed down, sort of like people to this day go on about Arsenal and brown envelopes in the 1930s...and it's fuckin' 2014 over here. Quite frankly, the entire is crooked as fuck, these guys end up fuckin' demoralised wasters that keel over before 60 cuz they've been pumping themselves full of juice. Now you could say the same about boxing but there' an inherent honour to that, wrestling is a glorified circus sideshow...quite literally too, in terms of the roots of wrestling 'entertainment', not talking about all that Greco-Roman mularkey.Not to mention all that WBF bullshit, selling fuckin' poison to your own boys, classy.Vince McMahon has been calling WWE sports entertainment for 20+ years.What about the decades before that when it wasn't and it was actually masquerading as some kinda real sport? Edited October 22, 2014 by Lennie Godber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 It is just a spectacle lenny. It is totally stupid braindead stuff unworthy of using the term 'sport' but I take the view that it is not worth getting worked up about as people just like the spectacle of it - like a circus with a soap opera story. They just like to drink beer and leave their brains at home. It is classically American really, leave your brain at home when you watch the wresting: 'brain out of commission'. It is Beavis and Butthead of a night out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) It just appeared no one was answering the question so i had a go. But yes, i agree with what you say. Edited October 22, 2014 by Lennie Godber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luciusfunk Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 And most fans are in on the joke, it's not still real to everyone dammit!Right but the point is we're being asked why the sceptical attitude, or prevailing sceptical attitude among a great many, because these things carry on and are passed down, sort of like people to this day go on about Arsenal and brown envelopes in the 1930s...and it's fuckin' 2014 over here. Quite frankly, the entire is crooked as fuck, these guys end up fuckin' demoralised wasters that keel over before 60 cuz they've been pumping themselves full of juice. Now you could say the same about boxing but there' an inherent honour to that, wrestling is a glorified circus sideshow...quite literally too, in terms of the roots of wrestling 'entertainment', not talking about all that Greco-Roman mularkey.Not to mention all that WBF bullshit, selling fuckin' poison to your own boys, classy.Vince McMahon has been calling WWE sports entertainment for 20+ years.What about the decades before that when it wasn't and it was actually masquerading as some kinda real sport?What about the NBA masquerading as a real sport when referees were fixing shit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axlslash Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Wrestling is real like the Nolanverse Batman movies were real. It's a totally scripted, totally staged good-versus-evil story being told in a world meant to be realistic without being real. Wrestling is about taking "real life" types of issues - as mundane as relationship drama (Matt Hardy and Edge feuding) to issues as big as international relations (Iron Sheik, Rusev, Muhammed Hassan, Nikolai Volkof) - and playing them out is a universe where you settle any and all differences through one-on-one violent combat. It's a TV show that takes place in the "real world." It's like the West Wing, Breaking Bad, or any other drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) And most fans are in on the joke, it's not still real to everyone dammit!Right but the point is we're being asked why the sceptical attitude, or prevailing sceptical attitude among a great many, because these things carry on and are passed down, sort of like people to this day go on about Arsenal and brown envelopes in the 1930s...and it's fuckin' 2014 over here. Quite frankly, the entire is crooked as fuck, these guys end up fuckin' demoralised wasters that keel over before 60 cuz they've been pumping themselves full of juice. Now you could say the same about boxing but there' an inherent honour to that, wrestling is a glorified circus sideshow...quite literally too, in terms of the roots of wrestling 'entertainment', not talking about all that Greco-Roman mularkey.Not to mention all that WBF bullshit, selling fuckin' poison to your own boys, classy.Vince McMahon has been calling WWE sports entertainment for 20+ years.What about the decades before that when it wasn't and it was actually masquerading as some kinda real sport?What about the NBA masquerading as a real sport when referees were fixing shit?How desperate is that?!?! Thats called breaking the rules, isn't it, it doesn't mean to say that the entire set up of NBA is bent and it's all pretend, honestly, do you just have to defend something blindly just cuz you like it, thats about the stupidest response yet, 'what about the people that fix matches', yes, it's called commiting a crime you plank And that should tell you something about wrestling in and of itself, that what is the standard for wrestling (i.e. the whole things a set up) is a crime in real sport.So every time someone cheats, it's not a sport anymore by your rationale? Sit down son, sit down issues as big as international relations (Iron Sheik, Rusev, Muhammed Hassan, Nikolai Volkof) Very subtle propaganda eh? Edited October 22, 2014 by Lennie Godber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luciusfunk Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Ok Lenny. I'm not gonna argue with you because it's pointless. You're always right. No matter what anyone says, you're always right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacardimayne Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 You idiots realize that the average adult wrestling fan doesn't take it seriously as a narrative right?It's meant to be taken tongue in cheek. When Rusev (evil Russian sympathizer) kicked the American soldier in the head, the adult fans didn't boo him because they were literally disgusted by his actions, they booed him because it's fun getting involved and invested in the show. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luciusfunk Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 You idiots realize that the average adult wrestling fan doesn't take it seriously as a narrative right?It's meant to be taken tongue in cheek. When Rusev (evil Russian sympathizer) kicked the American soldier in the head, the adult fans didn't boo him because they were literally disgusted by his actions, they booed him because it's fun getting involved and invested in the show.No they don't realize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Ok Lenny. I'm not gonna argue with you because it's pointless. You're always right. No matter what anyone says, you're always right.Except of course, when you post a gif I love that, like there's biiiiig massive conclusive point you got that you're just keeping under your hat and conceding in valour just cuz I'm argumentative and probably won't hear it out, this big profound insight you was on the verge of giving me that was gonna show me and the rest of the world that wrestling isn't a bunch of fake cartoon bollocks, yeah yeah, sure I think you owe it to the world to reveal this shit though man, maybe not to be but to the world of wrestling, maybe call up up Vince and ask him to announce the shit on Raw, no doubt it'd do his bank balance some good, go ahead, tell the whole world whats escaped them about this sport of wrestling.(short answer: fuck all cuz it's a load of flannel )You idiots realize that the average adult wrestling fan doesn't take it seriously as a narrative right?It's meant to be taken tongue in cheek. When Rusev (evil Russian sympathizer) kicked the American soldier in the head, the adult fans didn't boo him because they were literally disgusted by his actions, they booed him because it's fun getting involved and invested in the show.Surely getting invested in it and taking it seriously borders on the same thing, no? Thats sort of what getting invested in something means. Edited October 22, 2014 by Lennie Godber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacardimayne Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 No, because everyone in the crowd (bar the kids) knows it's not real, they're just enjoying the show. It's fun to boo a heel when he does a heel thing, even if you know it's fake. Understand? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) No, because everyone in the crowd (bar the kids) knows it's not real, they're just enjoying the show. It's fun to boo a heel when he does a heel thing, even if you know it's fake. Understand?Oddly enough, no i don't. At all. So basically a pretend bad guy does a pretend bad thing and thats everybodys cue to boo? Well, thats EXACTLY what i was describing up there, pantomime, fairground barker stuff.But whatever, you guys enjoy it so God love ya. I enjoy Smokey and the Bandit movies, go figure Edited October 22, 2014 by Lennie Godber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacardimayne Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 If that was all there was to it, I'd get where you're coming from, but that stuff is just the setup. They have to establish "characters" in these guys so they have reasons to fight eachother. The real entertainment comes from the athletic showcase in the matches themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luciusfunk Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Fall from a 20 foot ladder onto another ladder and tell me that's fake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luciusfunk Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 If that was all there was to it, I'd get where you're coming from, but that stuff is just the setup. They have to establish "characters" in these guys so they have reasons to fight eachother.The real entertainment comes from the athletic showcase in the matches themselves.See now that I could agree with, you can't just be anybody and go up there, they fuckin' REALLY work for a living, i don't really fault the wrestlers as such, i just don't like the tendency of certain fans to be sanctimonious about it and attempt to make it into this grand immense thing in trying to counter-argue the fake thing, it's just silly, it's like a bunch of people that have trouble admitting something they like is a bit...silly. And i don't see why, we're all of us into something that other people might look at and think is a bit naff...like internet forums for example! Christ, there's something silly about Guns n Roses if I may be so bald...and ginger. Bold, thats bold But yeah, the athletic aspect, fuck me, someone like Ray Mysterio or...see i only know older ones and there's probably some mental acrobatic ones out there by now but like, Superfly Snuka, Macho Man...and just aside from that, even the simple stuff, like getting bodyslammed, it'd knock the fuckin' wind right out of you, i don't think I'd be able to get up for 10 minutes just off of that, it's gotta hurt like a fuckin' bastard, those holds, figure fours and sharpshooters and camel clutches, if you've ever been 11 years old and tried em on your mates etc they hurt like a fucking bastard, even when you don't apply the pressure they're hardly comfortable and those guys really lean into those shits, that bit I could get I suppose, in terms of the entertainment aspect.But you and I both know that to try and manipulate those obvious realties as a way of arguing that it's not fake is just ridiculous...and obvious to even an idiot, I don't understand why someone would attempt that. Not that thats what you've done, to be fair, just speaking broadly here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axlslash Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 issues as big as international relations (Iron Sheik, Rusev, Muhammed Hassan, Nikolai Volkof) Very subtle propaganda eh? I actually find the latent racism in a lot of it quite disgusting. For example, every time the "bad guy" with a thick accent says anything, the crowd yells "WHAT?!" I hate that. It's not subtle, and it's actually gross. But at the same time, it's a fake scenario where those characters are meant to be stereotypical good and bad guys. As I recall, Muhammad Hassan's real name was something like Matt Cappoletti - he was a Roman Catholic Italian, hardly the Middle Eastern Muslim he was playing. In any case, setting aside the race politics, the good guys are stereotypically pristine, while the bad guys are stereotypically sleazy and embody all that "we" dislike. It's a vicarious and cathartic spectacle, not intended to be taken as reality. I see no difference between that and a violent movie that takes place in a modern and real conflict (Jarhead, Zero Dark, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreblack Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 trying to counter-argue the fake thingWho even does that in all seriousness anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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