Have We Ever Gotten An Explanation Of Where The Title 'Chinese Democracy' Originated?

[veon]

I was thinking about this the other day... did we ever get an explanation from Axl about where he came up with the title? I know that there are political undertones to the title, as evidenced by the booklet/artwork that was not published.

I know that the title also may be tongue-in-cheeck too. I remember years ago people on the boards would say: "There will actually be democracy in China before the album comes out."

The other day it randomly popped in my head that Chinese Democracy is possibly the state of nugnr... Band members have always said that Axl strives for equality in terms of creative contributions from the new group (at least nugnr 1.0). But at the end of the day, he's driving the bus and gets creative veto power. Chinese Democracy could be a reference to Axl's roll in new GnR and how the band operates. No matter how much equality he strives for in the band, he is the unquestioned leader and driving force of the band.

I can imagine an outsider asking a band member 'Is this new band a democracy" and getting a response like "yeah, if there was democracy in China". And as we all know, China is communist country, run by a dictator... I can see Axl being amused by this and using it as the title to his comeback album.

I had never read this theory on any of the boards... just wanted to float it out there and see what you all thought.

[Amir]

“The movie Kundun was on TV about the Dalai Lama. I was getting ready to leave…and it was the end of the movie. And the Dalai Lama is about to cross over the border, to you know, be in exile for the rest of his life from his own country. And he looks back at the men who helped him, and you know he’s escaped the Chinese government. And he looks back at them and he waves and they wave at him. And then they show a scene where he looks back at them again and he sees every one of them dead. Because he knew they would be killed, and they knew that in helping him they would be killed. And you know the emotion in this next song, that’s all that’s about. It’s not like an intelligent song. It doesn’t have the answer to anything. And it’s not necessarily pro or con about China. It’s just that right now China symbolizes one of the strongest, yet most oppressive countries and governments in the world. And we [Americans] are fortunate to live in a free country. And so in thinking about that it just kinda upset me, and we wrote this little song called Chinese Democracy”

[Jakey Styley]

Axl should probably stay away from politics. At least he admitted it wasn't a "smart" song.

Good song still

[RandallFlagg]

Was about to post the exact anecdote Amir posted The song is okay, a decent rocker, nothing amazing about it but nothing mediocre, the sentiments are kinda weird regarding the lyrics he tries and fails to incorporate his (GNR's) predicament into a weird fragment of feeling he got from that film and the heavy paranoid atmosphere of China. I get the title and how long it took but it's still at odds against various potential directions tangled into too compact a song to express anything really effective. The song has a clear Nirvana influence and I like what Bumble added to the verses.

[BreakDown2014]

Axl should probably stay away from politics. At least he admitted it wasn't a "smart" song.

Good song still

I think his essay on the unpublished booklet is at least coherent. At lot more coherent and sincere than most stuff I read on the internet or hear from actual politicians.

About the song, I like it, great rocker and very good opener for the shows btw

Edited October 12, 2014 by BreakDown2014

[IncitingChaos]

I like the explanation in one of the Chinese democracy reviews...the guy said it's called chinese democracy bc it's Axl's band now and it's his way of saying 'even though this is a band and I might say we make decisions, this is actually my band and more of a dictatorship than a democracy.' So the band is a Chinese democracy haha

Edit: sorry I didn't read your full post. I see you referenced this concept already

Edited October 12, 2014 by IncitingChaos

[gunsfanoldie]

“The movie Kundun was on TV about the Dalai Lama. I was getting ready to leave…and it was the end of the movie. And the Dalai Lama is about to cross over the border, to you know, be in exile for the rest of his life from his own country. And he looks back at the men who helped him, and you know he’s escaped the Chinese government. And he looks back at them and he waves and they wave at him. And then they show a scene where he looks back at them again and he sees every one of them dead. Because he knew they would be killed, and they knew that in helping him they would be killed. And you know the emotion in this next song, that’s all that’s about. It’s not like an intelligent song. It doesn’t have the answer to anything. And it’s not necessarily pro or con about China. It’s just that right now China symbolizes one of the strongest, yet most oppressive countries and governments in the world. And we [Americans] are fortunate to live in a free country. And so in thinking about that it just kinda upset me, and we wrote this little song called Chinese Democracy”

Not that I usually care where songs come from, but that right there shows Axl's genius. Or at least why he's better than a lot of other lyricists from his time. These songs do mean something and he's able to talk about something like that film in a very intelligent manner and put it into a song that could mean a lot of different things to different people, but there is a deep meaning to it. I'd have loved to see what other songs he could have penned from stuff, if these are the kind of thoughts that go through his head. Its too bad we've only got 15 of those thoughts in 20 years. He has a talent that has sadly gone to waste, and even worse that it was still there after the demise of GNR. He still had it, he just didn't have a stable way to present it.

[jmapelian]

The movie Kundun was on TV about the Dalai Lama. I was getting ready to leaveand it was the end of the movie. And the Dalai Lama is about to cross over the border, to you know, be in exile for the rest of his life from his own country. And he looks back at the men who helped him, and you know hes escaped the Chinese government. And he looks back at them and he waves and they wave at him. And then they show a scene where he looks back at them again and he sees every one of them dead. Because he knew they would be killed, and they knew that in helping him they would be killed. And you know the emotion in this next song, thats all thats about. Its not like an intelligent song. It doesnt have the answer to anything. And its not necessarily pro or con about China. Its just that right now China symbolizes one of the strongest, yet most oppressive countries and governments in the world. And we [Americans] are fortunate to live in a free country. And so in thinking about that it just kinda upset me, and we wrote this little song called Chinese Democracy

Not that I usually care where songs come from, but that right there shows Axl's genius. Or at least why he's better than a lot of other lyricists from his time. These songs do mean something and he's able to talk about something like that film in a very intelligent manner and put it into a song that could mean a lot of different things to different people, but there is a deep meaning to it. I'd have loved to see what other songs he could have penned from stuff, if these are the kind of thoughts that go through his head. Its too bad we've only got 15 of those thoughts in 20 years. He has a talent that has sadly gone to waste, and even worse that it was still there after the demise of GNR. He still had it, he just didn't have a stable way to present it.

News flash: Axl's not the only singer who does this. Not sure if it's "genius".

[gavgnr]

It's a superb oxymoron from Axl - a great contradiction in terms.

I love the song \m/

[Len Cnut]

It’s just that right now China symbolizes one of the strongest, yet most oppressive countries and governments in the world. And we [Americans] are fortunate to live in a free country.

Wankerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[wasted]

It seems like it's about the enduring nature of freedom as Axl leaves the old band behind he's saying it don't really matter, the fascination will live on, it's only a matter of time, hell wait in defiance forever in exile, the media/slash/industry will shift the blame elsewhere to hold on to control, but Axl will wait until the ship sinks and when it finally goes down they will reach out but it will be too late.

In a way it's Axls song about personal freedom and how far hell go.

I don't feel like its a straight out protest song. It's using these metaphors to express an emotion.

It's weird because its not like defiance in exile is fun, he's still sitting in a Chinese stew with the new guys who see his unhappiness.

I guess it's kind of like Like a Rolling Stone. There's an idea it's about Edie Segwick, but it's not clear, people identify with it like that's me or think its about someone they hate or just chant like a rolling stone when they drunk.

So it is an ironic freedom. CD shows how trapped Axl is.

[Johnny Drama]

I don't know what jacking off has to do with the Dalai Lama and waving.

Help?

[wasted]

I don't think it does.

It's more Axls personal take on things using the lama/china images here and there.

To me he's talking about band members quitting, he's waving bye to them as he goes into exile to wank himself silly with 14 mil of the labels money.

It's impossible to tell really. I think mainly he's saying fuck you. Nice opener.

[Nosaj Thing]

“The movie Kundun was on TV about the Dalai Lama. I was getting ready to leave…and it was the end of the movie. And the Dalai Lama is about to cross over the border, to you know, be in exile for the rest of his life from his own country. And he looks back at the men who helped him, and you know he’s escaped the Chinese government. And he looks back at them and he waves and they wave at him. And then they show a scene where he looks back at them again and he sees every one of them dead. Because he knew they would be killed, and they knew that in helping him they would be killed. And you know the emotion in this next song, that’s all that’s about. It’s not like an intelligent song. It doesn’t have the answer to anything. And it’s not necessarily pro or con about China. It’s just that right now China symbolizes one of the strongest, yet most oppressive countries and governments in the world. And we [Americans] are fortunate to live in a free country. And so in thinking about that it just kinda upset me, and we wrote this little song called Chinese Democracy”

Cool. I didn't know this. Thanks for sharing!

Chinese Democracy sounds 1000x better here than in the record.

[gunsfanoldie]

The movie Kundun was on TV about the Dalai Lama. I was getting ready to leaveand it was the end of the movie. And the Dalai Lama is about to cross over the border, to you know, be in exile for the rest of his life from his own country. And he looks back at the men who helped him, and you know hes escaped the Chinese government. And he looks back at them and he waves and they wave at him. And then they show a scene where he looks back at them again and he sees every one of them dead. Because he knew they would be killed, and they knew that in helping him they would be killed. And you know the emotion in this next song, thats all thats about. Its not like an intelligent song. It doesnt have the answer to anything. And its not necessarily pro or con about China. Its just that right now China symbolizes one of the strongest, yet most oppressive countries and governments in the world. And we [Americans] are fortunate to live in a free country. And so in thinking about that it just kinda upset me, and we wrote this little song called Chinese Democracy

Not that I usually care where songs come from, but that right there shows Axl's genius. Or at least why he's better than a lot of other lyricists from his time. These songs do mean something and he's able to talk about something like that film in a very intelligent manner and put it into a song that could mean a lot of different things to different people, but there is a deep meaning to it. I'd have loved to see what other songs he could have penned from stuff, if these are the kind of thoughts that go through his head. Its too bad we've only got 15 of those thoughts in 20 years. He has a talent that has sadly gone to waste, and even worse that it was still there after the demise of GNR. He still had it, he just didn't have a stable way to present it.

News flash: Axl's not the only singer who does this. Not sure if it's "genius".

Compared to artists nowadays, its incredible how rare Axl's talent is. Maybe its not "genius", but it is definitely something extraordinary that is still there, or at least it was after GNR fell apart. One of the reasons Axl is so amazing is the depth and uniqueness of his lyrics, which is more what I meant.

[darknightfan]

cause there is no democracy in china so its cool like saying America dictatorship

[wasted]

American Plutocracy would cool title for Remix album.

[DieselDaisy]

When pondering upon thoughts on modern China, on the People's Republic and Mao worship etc, the first brain I naturally turn to is, W. Axl Rose's. Obviously the man responsible for Back off Bitch (''time to burn, burn the witch'') is infinitely more proficient at discussing the Middle Kingdom than numerous sinologists.

[wasted]

He's not really saying anything about China, it's a metaphor for his situation.

he sees himself like the Dalai Lama escaping the oppressive industry. Exiling himself and he's throwing rocks at them from over the fence. It's at best a protest song or show of defiance, it doesn't seem to be informative or analytical about China.

The first sections seem more about the band, the rant at the end could possibly be political.

Kind of like Madagascar isn't about Madagascar but its more a symbol of an isolated island like Axl.

It's just another rage track.

[EvH]

Great posts, wasted.

[DieselDaisy]

He's not really saying anything about China, it's a metaphor for his situation.

he sees himself like the Dalai Lama escaping the oppressive industry. Exiling himself and he's throwing rocks at them from over the fence. It's at best a protest song or show of defiance, it doesn't seem to be informative or analytical about China.

The first sections seem more about the band, the rant at the end could possibly be political.

Kind of like Madagascar isn't about Madagascar but its more a symbol of an isolated island like Axl.

It's just another rage track.

Haha, alright. I take your word for it. I merely find that track a bunch of wank.

[wasted]

He's not really saying anything about China, it's a metaphor for his situation.

he sees himself like the Dalai Lama escaping the oppressive industry. Exiling himself and he's throwing rocks at them from over the fence. It's at best a protest song or show of defiance, it doesn't seem to be informative or analytical about China.

The first sections seem more about the band, the rant at the end could possibly be political.

Kind of like Madagascar isn't about Madagascar but its more a symbol of an isolated island like Axl.

It's just another rage track.

Haha, alright. I take your word for it. I merely find that track a bunch of wank.

Nothing wrong wit a bunch of wank, leaves you lighter on your feet for some shadow boxing to Madagascar.

Funnily enough it's Izzy's favorite CD track. Or he didn't know any others.

[magisme]

Every metaphor Axl uses basically means they're out ta get him.

[wasted]

Riad and the Bedouins isn't actually a metaphor. The guy who was shielding Erin from Axl was a small time arms dealer in the middle east?

I.R.S. - I guess it is, but not really. It probably just sounds cooler than "I'm gonna call my lawyer immediately"

[DieselDaisy]

I can envision Wasted sitting on his couch all day smoking weed and listening to Chinese Democracy all day, interpretations of each track varying according to the potency of what particular ganja he is smoking.