The Hateful Eight - New/Second Trailer!

[Dan H.]

Tarantinos films have become part of this cynical hollywood thing where a total lack of ideas leading to tons of remakes and rehashing of old ideas, making a movie out of every comic book out there etc etc.

If you've seen enough of the shit he's been influenced by then it becomes clear that there is very little of any value in his movies that isn't plaguarised. After I'd say Jackie Brown hes made very few movies that stand up to repeated viewings.

Nah. I mean obviously he is heavily influenced by old cinema, and blends it into his film, but it never feels cynical or in bad taste to me. He manages to stay fresh while frequently using tropes and styles from past films and directors. In fact there are times when he does scene for scene "remakes" of older movies. The Mexican standoff scene in Resevour Dogs is almost shot for shot line for line a copy of a scene from an old Korean flick. The cool thing is that he works frequently with the director of the original film, and even had him do choreography and help produce Kill Bill.

Tarantino is especially talented and unique in the way that he makes his films both hyper realistic and incredibly surreal at the same time. His universe feels more real than the one we live in, and yet also more surreal at the same time.

The only one of his films that felt like it was in bad taste or cynical was Django, which is my least favorite of his. And I'd agree that since Jackie Brown he's been a lot less spectacular and thoughtful, and more just exploitative and stylistic fun that is easy to feel as a breath of fresh air compared to most mainstream Hollywood releases these days.

[Len Cnut]

The Mexican standoff scene in Resevour Dogs is almost shot for shot line for line a copy of a scene from an old Korean flick. The cool thing is that he works frequently with the director of the original film, and even had him do choreography and help produce Kill Bill.

The film you are thinking of is City on Fire by Ringo Lam and it's a helluva lot more than just the mexican standoff that is taken from that film.

The only one of his films that felt like it was in bad taste or cynical was Django, which is my least favorite of his. And I'd agree that since Jackie Brown he's been a lot less spectacular and thoughtful, and more just exploitative and stylistic fun that is easy to feel as a breath of fresh air compared to most mainstream Hollywood releases these days.

The cynicism i was point at has nothing to do with the fact that he basically tries to make Exploitation Cinema, I was talking more along the lines of the plaguarism.

Honestly? I'd rather watch the originals. It's a really hefty indictment of our times that this is the best mainstream director we have. His films do not and will not stand the test of time, less so with his post Jackie Brown work. It basically goes back to something Oliver Stone said about him right from the jump, that he made movies and not films and making movies is all well and good but there's only so far you can go on 'cool' dialogue and casual violence.

You can't forge what it was about films like Bullitt or Vanishing Point or For a Few Dollars More etc etc etc that made them cool and eventually iconic (although Bullitt was kinda instantly iconic), when all you do is homage then it isn't homage anymore, it's called stealing. It's very telling also that for all the fan fans of Tarantino, he doesn't really get much love among his peers, he'll never be a Fritz Lang or a John Huston or a Sam Peckinpah or a John Ford or a John Cassavetes or a Stanley Kubrick or, God forbid, an Alfred Hitchcock, the talent simply...isn't...there.

I know originality is almost a dirty word nowadays but it will always be important, always. I'll always have some kinda love for Tarantino because he was the person that first gave me the idea that you didn't have to fall from the heavens to work in film but it kinda goes back to something he said a whiles back about Goddard, the older you get the more his films become of less value (pretty harsh indictment considering how much he steals from them), i think that applies more for Tarantino own films than Goddards, who I consider a way a higher calibre director.

Hollywood cinema is may favourite kinda of cinema, it's THE cinema to me and, with it's history in mind, it deserves a lot better than Quentin Tarantino. He is not interesting enough as a person to allow him his indulgences. I get the whole stylistic and fun thing but quite frankly a bunch of cross-cutting, presenting the same scene 4 times from different angles to reveal a key plot device (even then sometimes) is not fun nor does it particularly add much stylistically, what it is is disingenuous overlong and boring.

The fact is he doesn't lend himself to being stylistic and fun anymore, he tries to make complex amd epic films and just doesn't do very well at it, the last of his movies that was stylistic and fun was Death Proof and it got panned. I honestly think he's afraid of making movies that actually replicate Exploitation Cinema because he did that with Death Proof and it fell flat on its face and the reason for that is the people who he is trying to sell Exploitation Cinema to (i.e. mainstream cinema goers) couldn't give a winged shit about exploitation cinema, had they and their kind given a shit about it, it wouldn't've be the fringe genre that it is/was. So what are you left with? Basically having to steal elements of it but presenting it in a kind of a mainstream hollywood format, not only is that cheap it's kinda gutless as a filmmaker too.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Len B'stard

[Georgy Zhukov]

I love Django (It may even be my favorite Tarantino film), but having another western already seems a little overkill. Especially when you consider that Inglorious Basterds had overtones/elements of the spaghetti western also. The last movie which was in a totally different vein was Death Proof.

Django is not a Western. It is set in the Pre-Civil War South. Even that foot freak said so. He calls it a "Southern"

Hateful Eight looks more like a Western.

[Powerage5]

I love Django (It may even be my favorite Tarantino film), but having another western already seems a little overkill. Especially when you consider that Inglorious Basterds had overtones/elements of the spaghetti western also. The last movie which was in a totally different vein was Death Proof.

Django is not a Western. It is set in the Pre-Civil War South. Even that foot freak said so. He calls it a "Southern"

Hateful Eight looks more like a Western.

Fair enough.

[Len Cnut]

I love Django (It may even be my favorite Tarantino film), but having another western already seems a little overkill. Especially when you consider that Inglorious Basterds had overtones/elements of the spaghetti western also. The last movie which was in a totally different vein was Death Proof.

Django is not a Western. It is set in the Pre-Civil War South. Even that foot freak said so. He calls it a "Southern"

Hateful Eight looks more like a Western.

Southern my fuckin' arse

[Georgy Zhukov]

I love Django (It may even be my favorite Tarantino film), but having another western already seems a little overkill. Especially when you consider that Inglorious Basterds had overtones/elements of the spaghetti western also. The last movie which was in a totally different vein was Death Proof.

Django is not a Western. It is set in the Pre-Civil War South. Even that foot freak said so. He calls it a "Southern"

Hateful Eight looks more like a Western.

Southern my fuckin' arse

Explain the plantations and southern accents, then.

[OmarBradley]

Yeah he's a crazy dude. Great filmmaker though.

This looks cool, although it doesn't look all that different from Django which is kind of a bummer

That was my immediate thought when this was announced. The trailer just makes it look like Django with snow.

Wahey, another cheap pastiche of other peoples work palmed off as original filmmaking! J/K, i really enjoy em actually, although since Inglorious Basterds I've not really been able to watch em more than just the once. Didn't Tarantino throw a massive bitch fit over this cuz the script leaked or something?

Yeah he actually threatened to cancel the entire project since it was leaked.

[J Dog]

Yeah he's a crazy dude. Great filmmaker though.

This looks cool, although it doesn't look all that different from Django which is kind of a bummer

That was my immediate thought when this was announced. The trailer just makes it look like Django with snow.

Wahey, another cheap pastiche of other peoples work palmed off as original filmmaking! J/K, i really enjoy em actually, although since Inglorious Basterds I've not really been able to watch em more than just the once. Didn't Tarantino throw a massive bitch fit over this cuz the script leaked or something?

Yeah he actually threatened to cancel the entire project since it was leaked.

I'm pretty sure I read the leaked script courtesy of mygnr-seen that movie too

[Apollo]

Len - that was a very thoughtful and passionate post.

But I wonder if you are missing the point about Tarantino. I don't take great offense to what he is doing to movies as I don't find him as pretentious as you might.

I think he is a dude who was a total movie nerd growing up. And now he gets to direct the types of movies that he enjoyed watching as a kid. Nothing more, nothing less.

Kobe Bryant hasn't invented anything. He hasnt revolutionized the NBA. He isn't doing anything that Michael didn't already do. And did a little bit better. That doesn't mean that Kobe isn't one of the 20 best players of all time and we can't sit back and watch and enjoy.

I don't see Tarantino trying to change modern cinema. I see him as a guy obsessed with old movies now making his own movies, all I'm then vein of what he loves to watch.

And to be honest, I would much rather watch modernized versions of movies featuring actors I'm familiar with than watching the same movie in black and white and with subtitles. I know that kills movie purists like yourself. But the sweet thing is that it shouldn't matter to you! You can still watch and enjoy your John Wayne and Doris Day movies.

Heck. When the new True Grit came out we watched the old one and new one back-to-back. I give full respect to the original being an all time classic. But again, sorry to offend the purists, but the original is cheesy as hell. And the over-the-top acting style of those movies is pretty funny to watch.

Original - classic. Remake - decent. But if I have to rewatch one tomorrow night, I'm picking the new one.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Apollo

[Len Cnut]

But I wonder if you are missing the point about Tarantino. I don't take great offense to what he is doing to movies as I don't find him as pretentious as you might.

I don't think he's pretencious as such, I've always thought that a weird indictment for movie directors...I mean all cinema is pretence isn't it, really, it's theatre, it's people pretending to be characters, calling movies or movie directors pretencious is like calling a boxer aggressive, it's sort of the point.

I think he is a dude who was a total movie nerd growing up. And now he gets to direct the types of movies that he enjoyed watching as a kid. Nothing more, nothing less.

And fair play to him.

Kobe Bryant hasn't invented anything. He hasnt revolutionized the NBA. He isn't doing anything that Michael didn't already do. And did a little bit better. That doesn't mean that Kobe isn't one of the 20 best players of all time and we can't sit back and watch and enjoy.

Sport is different, sport is competitive performance based stuff, movies don't really work on the same level. I see the point you're making, it just doesn't transplant well from sport to cinema.

I don't see Tarantino trying to change modern cinema. I see him as a guy obsessed with old movies now making his own movies, all I'm then vein of what he loves to watch.

So do I. But i also see people calling him one of the greatest filmmakers ever...and I see him making similar comments about the quality and power of his work, on a number of occasions.

And to be honest, I would much rather watch modernized versions of movies featuring actors I'm familiar with than watching the same movie in black and white and with subtitles. I know that kills movie purists like yourself. But the sweet thing is that it shouldn't matter to you! You can still watch and enjoy your John Wayne and Doris Day movies.

Well perhaps my issue is that I've seen too many movies but i feel kinda short-changed watching a movie that I've already seen before done by different actors. It doesn't kill me at all, people can watch any damn thing they like...and of course I can watch John Wayne and Doris Day movies...or I could just not watch movies at all. That'd be a remedy, wouldn't it, just turn the fuckin' things off altogether This isn't like a gunshot wound that needs tending to that can only be dealt with through the medium of cinema, I'm not in pain and asking for a remedy here, i could just walk away from movies altogether

I just believe in originality. It's pretty much the deal. Now i get the feeling a lot of what I'm saying comes across as uptight to you and I suppose i can see where you are coming from but it's this laissez faire attitude that leads us to where we are today, this panty-waist 'oh just shut up and accept what everyone else is doing' attitude, this awful notion that if you seek something a little different or some kind of integrity then you're some kinda problem or some kind of whiner or something, it's fine y'know, culture doesn't exist solely for my benefit, it's a mass thing right and if a mass of people are happy with something then on some level it has to be a good thing cuz it's a serving a need that exists? Well sorry i don't agree with that. You accept it throughout culture and what you end up with is a very superficial and bullshit culture. Music? Aw just let it go man, someones buying it...and lo and behold, observe as the music industry flourishes. And it's the same with movies, if you accept mediocrity then you will get mediocrity and hey, maybe the King of the Medicores makes films that are watchable and entertaining but 90% of the rest of what you will have will be fucking shite which is kinda what we have today in cinema.

Yes, this can all be solved by not watching movies that i find objectionable and watching the ones i like...but i do that anyway, no one has to point that out but I can still be kinda miffed about what is going on with the standard.

It's not that hard to be original, all it takes is guts. It's not that hard to think up stories, it really really really isn't. I'm watching Wanted Dead or Alive, the Steve McQueen TV series the other day right, i downloaded the lot of em and sat down to watch em for the first time in ages and what struck me about them was, in 24 mins of tv series episode they packed in a new and original and detailed story EVERY fuckin' episode. If they'd've spent a little more time on characterisation there was enough in each episode of substance to make an entire movie each time....and they must've made 80 plus episodes of this show. And people nowadays just can't for some reason come up with original stories? I don't buy it, we're being fed this.

If you take things for granted and allow that attitude to engender an apathy towards the degrading of culture then you're gonna wake up up to your neck in what you've been shovelling culturally and thats kinda what i see here, it's cynical and cheap and i don't like it. And as far as like subtitles and all that, the majority of the movies i like, like 80% are mainstream hollywood movies, my bread and butter, my go-to cinema is mainstream Hollywood cinema, that is MY cinema and i have a tremendous respect and a really really really passionate regard for it and i think it deserves better than to end in:

'OK, so, he's the pitch, we take Beagle-man and put him in a film with Eagle man...we'll call it Eagle-man vs Beagle-man!'

When i point out people like John Wayne, Steve McQueen, John Huston, Alfred Hitchcock, I'm not saying 'things should've stayed like this forever!' I'm saying that spirit of invention, that character, that courage, that creativity, we need that still, that in the modern age, people that are confident of their ideas, actors that wannabe that have a regard for their craft and want to make a mark in their culture, not through a bunch of phoney method bullshit like 'i starved myself for 8 weeks' but utilising the full range of methods out there to create lasting characterisations, just substance, gimme some fuckin' substance, don't put my fuckin' brain to sleep with Eagle Man vs Beagle Man, from a failed Marvel comic that they made 12 fuckin' issues of before some realised it was a piece of shit.

In response to this sort thing you often find people going 'oh well there's good movies out there, they're just not mainstream and you're just lazy' but i find this compartmentalisation and the fact that people are happy with this compartmentalisation of culture to be kinda weird too. It's OK to be different but just go do it in that dark corner over there where only people like you have to look at it, you fuckin' retard

I can't believe we're actually here, I can believe that people who want things to be original are considered like weird or an irritant, i really really find it stunning, we've arrived at some kind of future here, haven't we?

Edited August 17, 2015 by Len B'stard

[bacardimayne]

i agree about the western thing. i want another sleazy crime movie from quentin, not more 1800s black slave revenge shit

[Len Cnut]

With Tarantino, visually, the film that gave the best western feel, oddly enough, was Kill Bill 2. I liked the Michael Madsen scenes in that, that guy was born to play a fuckin' cowboy. Or best Sergio Leone rip off feel, to be more accurate.

[wasted]

I think QT does write a tight story, script though. And has his style. Hes not a modernist communicating the truth. I dont think hes like smart ass ironic either. People just enjoy it. Hes much better quality than Point Break remakes. He's true copy master.

[Rovim]

I think QT does write a tight story, script though. And has his style. Hes not a modernist communicating the truth. I dont think hes like smart ass ironic either. People just enjoy it. Hes much better quality than Point Break remakes. He's true copy master.

Inglorious Mixmaster. I like his movies. There is nothing original except of his style but what is there is very enjoyable and he takes his time with his movies which helps with quality.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Rovim

[wasted]

I like the quality he brings. Unfortunately not a huge western fan. Or even War movies other than Platoon or Apoc Now.

Death Proof was great though Ive watched that many times. Kill Bill 2 was good. But thats where the slow set in snd I got used to his dialogue.

For me he could just do crime movies or I'd prefer a sci fi movie or something about ninjas or chick dirt bikers. not 5 spaghetti westerns. You had me at spaghetti.

[Len Cnut]

The problem with his dialogue is that it all sounds like him talking. The cadences of the language and descriptions, you can hear it all in his voice. Also, westerns are a type of film where they kinda live and die by the physical presence of the actors because they were not, as a rule, dialogue heavy. Which means you need actors with the right kind of eyes, when you watch a western watch the eyes. That and physical presence, actors that just eat up the screen when they're on. Unfortunately that silence, when attempted these days, just makes the films seem grim for some reason.

I don't think the morality of the true western is fashionable anymore.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Len B'stard

[Rovim]

The problem with his dialogue is that it all sounds like him talking. The cadences of the language and descriptions, you can hear it all in his voice. Also, westerns are a type of film where they kind and live and die by the physical presence of the actors because they were not, as a rule, dialogue heavy. Which means you need actors with the right kind of eyes, when you watch a western watch the eyes. That and physical presence, actors that just eat up the screen when they're on.

Wasn't Leo like that in Django? and it does sound like him. It's his phrasing. I think for better or worse, that's a big element in his movies and it worked a bunch of times. Like at least...3.

[Len Cnut]

The problem with his dialogue is that it all sounds like him talking. The cadences of the language and descriptions, you can hear it all in his voice. Also, westerns are a type of film where they kind and live and die by the physical presence of the actors because they were not, as a rule, dialogue heavy. Which means you need actors with the right kind of eyes, when you watch a western watch the eyes. That and physical presence, actors that just eat up the screen when they're on.

Wasn't Leo like that in Django? and it does sound like him. It's his phrasing. I think for better or worse, that's a big element in his movies and it worked a bunch of times. Like at least...3.

I gotta agree, Leo was FUCKING fantastic in that film, one of the best characterisations in his movies. But strip away the accent and Leos delivery and it's unmistakably Tarantino. But that don't matter for shit because the performance carries it across BRILLIANTLY. Really like it. Jackie was another great character of his. As was De Niros dozy ex con Louis. But those characters are kind bought to life by the skill of the actors involved, on paper they're not as alive as the particular characterisations make em.

In Tarantinos defence though, a lot of those characterisations were very specific, particularly De Niros one, a great deal of it is what Tarantino demanded from it.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Len B'stard

[Rovim]

The problem with his dialogue is that it all sounds like him talking. The cadences of the language and descriptions, you can hear it all in his voice. Also, westerns are a type of film where they kind and live and die by the physical presence of the actors because they were not, as a rule, dialogue heavy. Which means you need actors with the right kind of eyes, when you watch a western watch the eyes. That and physical presence, actors that just eat up the screen when they're on.

Wasn't Leo like that in Django? and it does sound like him. It's his phrasing. I think for better or worse, that's a big element in his movies and it worked a bunch of times. Like at least...3.

I gotta agree, Leo was FUCKING fantastic in that film, one of the best characterisations in his movies. But strip away the accent and Leos delivery and it's unmistakably Tarantino. But that don't matter for shit because the performance carries it across BRILLIANTLY. Really like it.

Just to clarify: I was agreeing with you it's Tarantino's phrasing. Always is. I remember one director said: "They are me" about his actors meaning they were merely delivering his message.

So on some level, it's true in general, but it is more obvious in Tarantino's work.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Rovim

[wasted]

Maybe the better actors make the dialogue work better for them. The weaker ones get swamped by QT.

QT cant be blamed for the way movies are now. There bigger forces than he. Wrinsteins bought by Disney. Marketing comtrols movies from top down. They write the scripts that way. So anyone like QT still working within the system and still doing what he does is a good thing. Maybe he did tap into or expose what the audience want though. The geek culture has been appropriated by big corporations. Maybe QT and Smith should fight the man but really that is naive. Oh well whatever nevermind.

Edited August 18, 2015 by wasted

[RussTCB]

New/second trailer on IGNs website:

http://www.ign.com/videos/2015/11/05/the-hateful-eight-official-trailer-2?utm_source=IGN%20hub%20page&utm_medium=IGN%20(front%20page)&utm_content=1&utm_campaign=Spotlight

[Nosaj Thing]

Terrific.

[bran]

fuck yeah, cant wait for this movie.

[RussTCB]

I'm in the same boat. I wasn't all that excited for Django prior to release but I ended up LOVING it, so I'm assuming I'll like this a great deal as well.

[wasted]

looks like fun. i prefer his crime movies though. Might have to endure Kill Bill 3 before he does another crime movie.