Terrorist attack thread

[Lio]

6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Abandoning important principles of western socities to fight those that oppose them? Sounds backwards to me.

Let's put things in perspective. You want us to skip normal legal procedures, reintroduce capital punishment and torture because of a death toll of, what, a few hundreds in Europe these last years? That's it? Isn't that completely succumbing to panic and emotions and throwing the baby out with the wash water? I mean, as far as dangers to socity goes ISIS and international terrorism is still a footnote. Yes, it is horrible. Yes, it is awful. Yes, we have to stop it. But more people die from falling out of their beds than from terrorist attacks so should we really abandon what makes our societies worth protecting because of this very minor threat? And it is not like this is new to Europe (as someone overly excited people here seem to think). Europe has a long tradition of terror, just think of IRA and Red Arny Faction, ASALA and many, many more, who have killed dozens upon dozens of people in Europa the last 100 years. We have survived these threats just like we will survive what is happening now, without changing for the worse in the process.

 

This is different though. We've had terrorism here in Belgium before, that's true. And I don't want to minimize IRA and RAF at all, but they seemed to me more national, for lack of a better word. This is so much bigger than what we've seen before. This is a whole group of people just trying to destroy western civilization, trying to kill as many people as possible.

I think the time to minimize this is truly over. Yes, a LOT of people hate us, and they're everywhere, radicalized people all over the world, in Syria, but in Brussels, Paris, London and wherever too. Don't you think this is bigger than RAF and IRA?

In Molenbeek a lot of people knew where Salah was, they hid him for over four months! They all chose the side of a terrorist, not that of the law, not that of our western civilisation, a civilisation they are supposed to be a part of. I'm sorry, I feel very much like this is us against them at this time.

I'm not saying we should go back to death penalty or anything like that, but I do admit I have a very hard time not being too emotional. No more pussyfooting. Young Arabs throwing stones and bottles at the police because they arrested Salah? Throw them in jail. Women offering Salah a place to stay in the home they got from the council? Put her out on the street. It's time for action.

This is an acute problem. Investigate where it's all gone wrong later.

[Johnny Drama]

All I'll say is my position is in the middle. There's too many fucking racist cunts wanting to kick every Muslim's head because a couple of them are fucking arseholes and there's too many that want to do nothing about these guys. Like Lio said, they're not localised to a country/nationalism, nor do they seem to be fighting for a real cause. Yes I'm aware that they are "Islamic extremists" or whatever bullshit term it is that can be used to associate them with a religion for convenience, but what is  Islamic about what they are doing? I know it's shit that's being said a million times but all they seem to be focused on doing is killing people left, right and centre in order to establish some pseudo-Islamic empire (mind the Islamic empires of old were centres of civilisation and learning, not the domain of barbarous pond life).

And you won't find anyone more pro-immigration/refugees than me, but the amount of these cunts doing this shit to countries that have given them/their parents a life is astounding. My justice for those sorta cunts? Take away their citizenship and deport them back to whatever war torn shithole them or their families come from. There's too many good folks out there that need refuge from war created by fucking arseholes like these guys and they're wasting food, money, resources, jobs that could be there for people who need/properly appreciate it.

[st0n3r]

I was on the metroline that was attacked this morning. I got off and took a taxi to work. I was very close to the metro station where the bomb went off. Heard explosions afterwards too, but apparently, those were controlled. 

Another update: in some schools there are muslim children celebrating. 

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Drama said:

What in the fuck? Who said shit about capital punishment or extrajudicial shit. I mean war. War that means you need several bags to pick these cunts bodies up from.

This isn't war. It is terrorism perpetrated by citizens. And the difference between war and terrorism is not just semantics. There are important differences. They are not soldiers wearing uniforms easily picked out. They look and behave like any other citizens. And this is not a regular warfield devoid of innocents. They are civilians inside our socities; they are the enemy within. We can't fight them as if they are soldiers, making war fields out of our cities, because the collatoral would be horrendous. You are saying they should be killed where they stand without trial or anything. That's what you do in war because you can be certain that the soldier opposing you is the enemy. It doesn't work for terrorists embedded in society who masquerade as other citizens. In this situation you have to handle the situation with the normal care to prevent going after the wrong guys and to prevent upsetting other citizens by forgoing the normal measures we have put in place to prevent abuse of the people, to prevent unrest among people, terrorists, friens of terrorists, and others, who feel their rights as citizens are violated. In other words, they must be responded to as if they were criminal murderers.

[Lio]

2 minutes ago, st0n3r said:

I was on the metroline that was attacked this morning. I got off and took a taxi to work. I was very close to the metro station where the bomb went off. Heard explosions afterwards too, but apparently, those were controlled. 

Another update: in some schools there are muslim children celebrating. 

Glad you're okay Be careful and stay safe!

[SoulMonster]

18 minutes ago, Lio said:

 I'm sorry, I feel very much like this is us against them at this time.

It is us against them. But them being those that kill innocents, and not anyone else. And what I disagree on is how we fight them without making things worse, and the overall doom and gloom perspective from some posters here about what can, unfortunately, best be described as a pretty normal situation in Europe.

[Johnny Drama]

FFS man. In Syria and the like. Does all this shit need to spelled out for you so you don't have to pick out on every word. Yes, of course it is the duty of the constabulary to fight the diaspora of scum but where this shit is really happening, just wipe them out.

[Axls_Moustache_Rules]

Would've thought a new thread for what's happened would avoid any confusion.

 

[Lio]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

It is us against them. But them being those that kill innocents, and not anyone else.

What about the huge network they obviously have, in Brussels and elsewhere? It's not just a few jihadis. They have a whole network of supporters. Terrorists can knock on just about any door in Brussels and they will be protected. I know not all muslims/Arabs are like that, but I start to realise there's lots more that support IS than I thought before.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Johnny Drama said:

FFS man. In Syria and the like. Does all this shit need to spelled out for you so you don't have to pick out on every word. Yes, of course it is the duty of the constabulary to fight the diaspora of scum but where this shit is really happening, just wipe them out.

It is not easier to pick out the terrorists in Syria than it is in Molenbeek. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the average muslim in Molenbeek is more radical than the average muslim in Syria. Any effort to "just wipe them out" in Syria would most likely only increase the problem by creating even more terrorists, especially through collatoral in that area. There is no quick fix to this problem.

Here's a long fix: We have to continue fighting ISIS in Syria and Iraq the way we are, with the support of local governments, to secure peace in these areas as soon as possible. We must prevent ghettos like Molenbeek from being established. We must be better at integrating immigrants, integrating them in society so we don't have large subpopulations of poor, angry, destitute citizens who don't speak the local language nor understand how our societies work. We must improve schools to prevent the nonsense that they believe in. We must make it illegal to fight in wars outside the country. We must be better at surveillance and prevention. And much more.

4 minutes ago, Lio said:

What about the huge network they obviously have, in Brussels and elsewhere? It's not just a few jihadis. They have a whole network of supporters. Terrorists can knock on just about any door in Brussels and they will be protected. I know not all muslims/Arabs are like that, but I start to realise there's lots more that support IS than I thought before.

Anyone who hides a criminal is a criminal themselves. I am not denying you have a huge problem in Belgium. A lot of it caused by your own failed policies of integration. I still don't think Johnny Drama makes much sense.

[Johnny Drama]

 

Quote

Here's a long fix: We have to continue fighting ISIS in Syria and Iraq the way we are, with the support of local governments, to secure peace in these areas as soon as possible.

Yep.

 

Quote

There is no quick fix to this problem.

Yep.

 

Quote

We must prevent ghettos like Molenbeek from being established.

Yep.

 

15 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

We must be better at integrating immigrants, integrating them in society so we don't have large subpopulations of poor, angry, destitute citizens who don't speak the local language nor understand how our societies work.

 

And  you lose me here. Western governments give enough to immigrants that they accept typically. Learn the language and deal with people. Plenty of immigrants have done that in the past...it used to be that immigrants would make the effort whilst everyone was being racist hicks to them, now it's the opposite I feel a lot of the time. If not learning the language and integrating on your own terms needs government intervention because your a lazy/aggro cunt, well the door to the sea is that way as far I'm concerned.

For example, a couple suburbs from me is a place that is full of multiculturalism. Over the years many ethnic communities have come and gone through the place as their folks have initially arrived, subsequentially prospered and then moved out. The area is currently defined by it's large Afghan and South Sudanese population. Both came from war torn shitholes at the same time, both lacking in English etc. etc insert misfortune/social handicap here...the bottom line is for the most part the Afghans are hard working, entrepreneurial, have learned to speak good English, are peaceful and law abiding. The South Sudanese on the other hand are for the most part are a useless populace (this is related to them as an ethnic population and a problem within their community, but please don't think I am racist... "I'm not racist but... :lol:) where the older generation don't have jobs and younger ones think they are Bloods and Crips waging warfare almost within their suburbs...which no one gave six fucks about until 200 of them fucked shit up in Melbourne two weekends ago and all fucking mayhem broke loose.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Johnny Drama
Don't lump me in with shades. I'm still a major libtard. :lol:

[shades]

7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

It is not easier to pick out the terrorists in Syria than it is in Molenbeek. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the average muslim in Molenbeek is more radical than the average muslim in Syria. Any effort to "just wipe them out" in Syria would most likely only increase the problem by creating even more terrorists, especially through collatoral in that area. There is no quick fix to this problem.

Here's a long fix: We have to continue fighting ISIS in Syria and Iraq the way we are, with the support of local governments, to secure peace in these areas as soon as possible. We must prevent ghettos like Molenbeek from being established. We must be better at integrating immigrants, integrating them in society so we don't have large subpopulations of poor, angry, destitute citizens who don't speak the local language nor understand how our societies work. We must improve schools to prevent the nonsense that they believe in. We must make it illegal to fight in wars outside the country. We must be better at surveillance and prevention. And much more.

Anyone who hides a criminal is a criminal themselves. I am not denying you have a huge problem in Belgium. A lot of it caused by your own failed policies of integration. I still don't think Johnny Drama makes much sense.

The problem with this line of thinking is it doesn't offer any solutions.

"integrating them in society so we don't have large subpopulations of poor, angry, destitute citizens"?................really?  Integrate them into our societies better? So it's our fault?  I've listened to that from liberals in my own country for years and it's starting to make me ill.

Liberal naivity is going to eventually get us all killed. Those "societies" were hiding these people, it's already festering to the point where we just sit and wait on the next attack. Angela Merkel has lost her mind, and the price for the European Union allowing travel in and out of countries at will is coming home to roost.

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Drama said:

And  you lose me here. Western governments give enough to immigrants that they accept typically. Learn the language and deal with people. Plenty of immigrants have done that in the past...it used to be that immigrants would make the effort whilst everyone was being racist hicks to them, now it's the opposite I feel a lot of the time. If not learning the language and integrating on your own terms needs government intervention because your a lazy/aggro cunt, well the door to the sea is that way as far I'm concerned.

For example, a couple suburbs from me is a place that is full of multiculturalism. Over the years many ethnic communities have come and gone through the place as their folks have initially arrived, subsequentially prospered and then moved out. The area is currently defined by it's large Afghan and South Sudanese population. Both came from war torn shitholes at the same time, both lacking in English etc. etc insert misfortune/social handicap here...the bottom line is for the most part the Afghans are hard working, entrepreneurial, have learned to speak good English, are peaceful and law abiding. The South Sudanese on the other hand are for the most part are a useless populace (this is related to them as an ethnic population and a problem within their community, but please don't think I am racist... "I'm not racist but... :lol:) where the older generation don't have jobs and younger ones think they are Bloods and Crips waging warfare almost within their suburbs...which no one gave six fucks about until 200 of them fucked shit up in Melbourne two weekends ago and all fucking mayhem broke loose.

With "better at integrating" I also mean we should demand that immigrants make an effort, too. And if they don't yes, then we kick them out. It goes both ways and I think we have been too lenient. Again, just look at Molenbeek and how that has turned out.

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, shades said:

The problem with this line of thinking is it doesn't offer any solutions.

"integrating them in society so we don't have large subpopulations of poor, angry, destitute citizens"?................really?  Integrate them into our societies better? So it's our fault?  I've listened to that from liberals in my own country for years and it's starting to make me ill.

Liberal naivity is going to eventually get us all killed. Those "societies" were hiding these people, it's already festering to the point where we just sit and wait on the next attack. Angela Merkel has lost her mind, and the price for the European Union allowing travel in and out of countries at will is coming home to roost.

I think the fault lies with both us and them. Of course, the fault of terrorism always lies with the terrorism. But the fault of ghettos lie with both the immigrants who gravitate towards other similar immigrants and anything that reminds them of their original home, and with society who allows this to happen by not dispersing immigrants more out, don't demand better immigration and provide the means for that, etc.

I never meant to give a detailed solution, neither in this post or before. As usual it is much easier to spot a problem which is glaring than to give a detailed fix that requires much more detailed knowledge than I possess.

[Lio]

Yeah, it's always the same group that causes problems. Not the Chinese, not the Jews, not the Latin-Americans, not the Congolese. I'm sure those people are confronted with racism as well, but they don't plant bombs or cheer for other innocent lives lost.

Politicians are to blame as well. Always tiptoeing around, being scared of being called a racist, or just being scared of losing votes. Molenbeek's old mayor has a lot to answer for. During his reign, everything got completely out of hand. Police were told to leave muslims alone during the Ramadan, because then 'they were hungry, and you should leave them alone'. They were basically allowed to do anything and everything they wanted. And in return he got to play mayor for a few decades.

I think this is the time to make it clear: we stand for our values, and if you don't like them, you'll have to leave. It's common sense, really. I would never move to a country that has completely different values that clash with mine. We shouldn't be afraid to stand for our own values.

[st0n3r]

Teachers are complaining that it's difficult to teach classes where muslim children are celebrating these attacks. These classes are in Brussels. 

 

[classicrawker]

1 hour ago, Lio said:

Yeah, it's always the same group that causes problems. Not the Chinese, not the Jews, not the Latin-Americans, not the Congolese. I'm sure those people are confronted with racism as well, but they don't plant bombs or cheer for other innocent lives lost.

Politicians are to blame as well. Always tiptoeing around, being scared of being called a racist, or just being scared of losing votes. Molenbeek's old mayor has a lot to answer for. During his reign, everything got completely out of hand. Police were told to leave muslims alone during the Ramadan, because then 'they were hungry, and you should leave them alone'. They were basically allowed to do anything and everything they wanted. And in return he got to play mayor for a few decades.

I think this is the time to make it clear: we stand for our values, and if you don't like them, you'll have to leave. It's common sense, really. I would never move to a country that has completely different values that clash with mine. We shouldn't be afraid to stand for our own values.

You would move if the country you left was oppressing your freedoms yes?

 

[Len Cnut]

18 minutes ago, st0n3r said:

Teachers are complaining that it's difficult to teach classes where muslim children are celebrating these attacks. These classes are in Brussels. 

 

What, they're...dancing in the halls or...?

[Johnny Drama]

8 minutes ago, classicrawker said:

You would move if the country you left was oppressing your freedoms yes?

 

What,  so you can do it to someone else in the process?

[Axl owns dexter]

These Islamic terrorists must really want Trump elected. Because that's what they're going to get.

[classicrawker]

12 minutes ago, Johnny Drama said:

What,  so you can do it to someone else in the process?

You are generalizing that all Muslim's are terrorists which is false............

[ZoSoRose]

Wow fuck these guys. Terrorists suck

[st0n3r]

A lot of muslims living in Brussels don't commit these terrorist acts, but a lot of them do condone them. Is that better? 

Edited March 22, 2016 by st0n3r

[Axl owns dexter]

Leftists, how many people have to die before our immigration policies are changed. Is there a magic number that we get to where you say, yeah maybe we should do something???

[Len Cnut]

9 minutes ago, st0n3r said:

A lot of muslims living in Brussels don't commit these terrorist acts, but a lot of them do condone them. Is that better? 

Marginally yes.  The two are co-dependent to a degree I suppose.