Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread (SPOILERS WITHIN)

[James Bond]

3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Another Abrams cast-off I feel. 

Poor Luke - sorry Mark. If he dislikes it so much while promoting the thing, just you wait until the dust settles. We've never heard from George yet either!

I look forward to a period after Episode 9 where Mark spills the beans on everything that pissed him off!

[downzy]

33 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I was just thinking about that prior to clicking on this thread just now. @downzy, your thoughts?

We're a week from release.  I say let's merge away!

[31illusions]

On 12/20/2017 at 6:08 PM, downzy said:

Yeah, we won't really know until the final instalment comes out.  It just feels odd that JJ would make it a mystery in TFA only for it to be a nothingburger in TLJ.  Since Abrams will be writing and directing the final, perhaps he'll put his own spin on Rey's lineage.

 

 

On 12/20/2017 at 7:21 PM, luciusfunk said:

As much as I think Rey should be a Skywalker, I believe she's a random. JJ said her parents weren't in TFA, then he rephrased it saying we don't find out who her parents are in TFA. Daisy said she was surprised people didn't realize who her parents were after TFA. It definitely does seem like Kylo is lying in that scene, though.

She is a random. Look at what Maz Kanata said in TFA. "You already know the truth, whoever you are waiting for.. they're never coming back" Kylo said "Your parents are nobody, they were filthy junk traders, who sold you off for drinking money" and yet people try to make it into something else. The question of Reys' parentage has been resolved. TLJ ending kinda' confirms there are more random children out there who are strong with the force. I'm sure it's a set up for the next movies which will have none of the original cast in it, and feature all new characters to build on.

[tsinindy]

3 hours ago, 31illusions said:

 

She is a random. Look at what Maz Kanata said in TFA. "You already know the truth, whoever you are waiting for.. they're never coming back" Kylo said "Your parents are nobody, they were filthy junk traders, who sold you off for drinking money" and yet people try to make it into something else. The question of Reys' parentage has been resolved. TLJ ending kinda' confirms there are more random children out there who are strong with the force. I'm sure it's a set up for the next movies which will have none of the original cast in it, and feature all new characters to build on.

The next movies are a whole different story set in the same galaxy featuring new places, new people and new stories, that we already know.....so that is irrelevant to the end of this series.  You know the story of the Skywalkers lol

It's not that people "try" to make it into something else, it is that it SHOULD be something else, her being a rando makes no sense.  There is no conflict in there being force sensitive individuals scattered throughout the universe.  There is a conflict in the fact that the strongest force user ever is a rando.  

[downzy]

10 hours ago, tsinindy said:

The next movies are a whole different story set in the same galaxy featuring new places, new people and new stories, that we already know.....so that is irrelevant to the end of this series.  You know the story of the Skywalkers lol

It's not that people "try" to make it into something else, it is that it SHOULD be something else, her being a rando makes no sense.  There is no conflict in there being force sensitive individuals scattered throughout the universe.  There is a conflict in the fact that the strongest force user ever is a rando.  

That's the problem I have.  The episode instalments have tracked the story and history of the Skywalkers beginning with Anakin.  

With The Last Jedi, the story has change tangents and will now focus on someone who isn't a Skywalker.  Essentially the conclusion of Star Wars was that on the whole, the Skywalkers were a shitty family who brought death and destruction to the galaxy.  That doesn't sit right, at least to me.  If Disney wants to tell other stories of force sensitive people, then fine.  Do it with another story.  Finish the Skywalker story with Episode IX and then move on.  

[DieselDaisy]

35 minutes ago, downzy said:

That's the problem I have.  The episode instalments have tracked the story and history of the Skywalkers beginning with Anakin.  

With The Last Jedi, the story has change tangents and will now focus on someone who isn't a Skywalker.  Essentially the conclusion of Star Wars was that on the whole, the Skywalkers were a shitty family who brought death and destruction to the galaxy.  That doesn't sit right, at least to me.  If Disney wants to tell other stories of force sensitive people, then fine.  Do it with another story.  Finish the Skywalker story with Episode IX and then move on.  

It wouldn't have been so bad if they didn't do a first film which seemed to continue the Skywalker/Solo trend, only to suddenly decide to jettison the Skywalker thing in the second film. 

[luciusfunk]

Besides the fact that Kylo carries on as Supreme Leader and the First Order is still in control, TLJ seems like the end of the trilogy. 

[rocknroll41]

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

It wouldn't have been so bad if they didn't do a first film which seemed to continue the Skywalker/Solo trend, only to suddenly decide to jettison the Skywalker thing in the second film. 

Yeah if I were the filmmakers I would've established rey as a random right away in the first film. Make that clear. Give her a last name and actually show her parents as they're leaving her in that flashback that occurs midway through the film.

[luciusfunk]

There's a petition to remove the movie from canon.

[rocknroll41]

5 hours ago, luciusfunk said:

There's a petition to remove the movie from canon.

Just when you thought you've heard it all...no wonder george ran away from all this shit.

[RussTCB]

19 hours ago, luciusfunk said:

There's a petition to remove the movie from canon.

I swear that. It's more than dumb though, it's fishy now. The guy that started it got a bunch of media attention, then posted a big apology saying he's on pain meds from some accident. He directed everyone to his gofundme instead of the petition lol

[luciusfunk]

11 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I swear that. It's more than dumb though, it's fishy now. The guy that started it got a bunch of media attention, then posted a big apology saying he's on pain meds from some accident. He directed everyone to his gofundme instead of the petition lol

Seriously? I hadn’t heard that. I only knew of the petition because WatchMojo did a video on it and it showed up on my feed. I didn’t even watch the video. 

 

Though it’s no worse than the guy who created a gofundme to “protect Betty White from 2016” and got six figures in donations. 

Edited December 24, 2017 by luciusfunk

[Powerage5]

On 12/21/2017 at 3:25 PM, highvoltage said:

I doubt Phasma is really dead. Johnson referred to her the "Kenny" of the series for a reason.

I had my criticisms and they've been covered already... but:

- I wasn't into Leia's space-flying
- Fairly disappointed with Snoke and Phasma like most
- The Finn/Rose arc was pretty "meh"
- I'm not sure I can buy into Kylo as the new top-dog; he's always been a little... bitchy for me
- The Porgs would have been totally tolerable.... with about 1/4 of the screen time. A couple of the gags worked though.

That being said, I liked this movie. A lot. There were some great scenes in it; especially Holdo's huge moment and the red-salt skimmer scene. The lengthy space-chase didn't seem that outrageous to me... they even acknowledged it was a ridiculous situation to be in. I thought it worked.

I don't agree that Ackbar should have had Holdo's moment... notwithstanding the actor's death, he's only popular because he looks like a fish and made it to meme status. We know next to nothing about Ackbar and who he is from the films...
Holdo is an actual character, who makes decisions and creates tension within the story. I thought she deserved that moment. I didn't think you were really set up to hate her either, I think you were supposed to realise she had a plan all along. Anyway, it was definitely one of my absolute favourite moments in any Star Wars movie... there were gasps all around the cinema!

More than anything - I think this film really opens Star Wars up for a new generation (as it should). TFA paid more than enough service to long-time fans and I appreciate that Rian didn't necessarily set out to make a "Star Wars" film with all the quirks people have come to expect. I get the criticism, but I enjoyed it.

I saw another interview with Arian though where he did say it was a concious decision to kill of Phasma, because she had served her purpose in the story. I think she’s really gone now. 

On 12/22/2017 at 12:48 AM, arnold layne said:

If anything The Last Jedi has encouraged me to rewatch the series starting from Rogue One.

I really enjoyed the movie to be honest. My biggest gripes were Leia flying through space (stupid), and Yoda making a guest appearance. Yoda is dead ffs. So stay dead. 

A much stronger film than TFA. Wish Rian Johnson would have stayed on to direct the next one.

 

Force ghosts have always been a part of Star Wars though. Why is Yoda appearing any different than Obi-Wan in ESB and ROTJ? I thought it was very appropriate, and one of the best scenes in the film. 

[tsinindy]

2 hours ago, Powerage5 said:

I saw another interview with Arian though where he did say it was a concious decision to kill of Phasma, because she had served her purpose in the story. I think she’s really gone now. 

Force ghosts have always been a part of Star Wars though. Why is Yoda appearing any different than Obi-Wan in ESB and ROTJ? I thought it was very appropriate, and one of the best scenes in the film. 

Phasma is really dead and I have a lot of issues with the film, but Yoda appearing in and of itself no problem The dialog was janky though and blowing up the tree was meaningless, not sure why all that was done when Rey has the books.   

[DieselDaisy]

Force ghosts was actually an idea of Lucas's that I never liked - even in the original trilogy. The concept was made further worse by sticking Jedi on one day and finding Hayden Christensen standing there in the finale haha.

[tsinindy]

Alright I'm literally in the theater watching previews to see this the second time.  I'll report back if I have any changes in thought on s second viewing.

[James Bond]

4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Force ghosts was actually an idea of Lucas's that I never liked - even in the original trilogy. The concept was made further worse by sticking Jedi on one day and finding Hayden Christensen standing there in the finale haha.

I recommend the VHS or Laserdisc to avoid the Hayden dilemma!

[Iron MikeyJ]

Worst SW film period. The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones are classics compared to this garbage. I could go on and on, but I'm sure the "fans" of TLJ have heard it all before. Change for the sake of change is NOT a positive thing. The change has to serve a purpose. 

Sure there are parts of the film I enjoyed, but they are buried underneath piles of garbage. It was just plain lazy writing all around imo. I wish JJ had been in charge of the entire trilogy, with Kasiadian (sp) as the writer. But clearly Disney wanted to try and distance itself from the previous films, in order to push their agenda of new characters in favor of old ones. That way they can make SW films every year from now until eternity. SW feels more like a crappy straight to video Little Mermaid sequel than real SW for me now. I'm super pumped for SW episode 22 The Last Jedi Strikes Back. 

Only OFFICIAL George Lucas SW films are cannon IMO. Disney Star Wars is the perfect example of modern style over story film making.

Edited December 26, 2017 by Iron MikeyJ

[Iron MikeyJ]

Oh BTW, if you can just use light speed as a means to blow things up, why not use that tactic on deathstars???? Seriously, this film was TERRIBLY written by a man that doesn't seem to have a good understanding of what Star Wars is/was. Johnson seemed to be saying to himself while making TLJ "How many ways can I make episodes 1-7 seem pointless?" Congrats man...

[Iron MikeyJ]

1. Empire 

2. Jedi

3. ANH 

4. Sith

5. Clones

6. Menace

 

 

Not really Star Wars IMO. The Ewok movies are as much SW as the Disney films

7. Rogue One (only for the Vader scenes)

8. TFA (Had potential for the new trilogy)

 

 

Drop in Quality

9. TLJ (garbage)

[Georgy Zhukov]

3 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

1. Empire 

2. Jedi

3. ANH 

4. Sith

5. Clones

6. Menace

 

 

Not really Star Wars IMO. The Ewok movies are as much SW as the Disney films

7. Rogue One (only for the Vader scenes)

8. TFA (Had potential for the new trilogy)

 

 

Drop in Quality

9. TLJ (garbage)

TFA introduced great new characters. Poe, Rey and Finn. Oscar Isaac is great in everything. Adam Driver is a great actor but his character is too bitchy for me. I feel bad for all the shit I gave Hayden because now I know that his Anakin and Kylo were just written to be bitchy.

[rocknroll41]

59 minutes ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

TFA introduced great new characters. Poe, Rey and Finn. Oscar Isaac is great in everything. Adam Driver is a great actor but his character is too bitchy for me. I feel bad for all the shit I gave Hayden because now I know that his Anakin and Kylo were just written to be bitchy.

Yeah hayden did his best with the absolutely atrocious dialogue and action cues he had to work with. He's probably not that bad of an actor if he had a good script and good director behind him. I've never seen any of his stuff outside of SW though.

[James Bond]

The only real thing the prequels needed was a second pair of eyes on the script and a different director. Seems ol' George got a little too scared of other people helping him even though it obviously worked for the original trilogy. The Disney efforts are proving that George, at the bare minimum, is needed for the story. He at least envisions an arc which lends itself to a coherent trilogy. Disney seems to be going film to film - contradicting plot points as they go.

Bond was guilty of this too when they decided to use SPECTRE at the eleventh hour to tie all the Daniel Craig films together even though Skyfall was quite obviously never intended to be part of the story arc.

[rocknroll41]

1 hour ago, James Bond said:

The only real thing the prequels needed was a second pair of eyes on the script and a different director. Seems ol' George got a little too scared of other people helping him even though it obviously worked for the original trilogy. The Disney efforts are proving that George, at the bare minimum, is needed for the story. He at least envisions an arc which lends itself to a coherent trilogy. Disney seems to be going film to film - contradicting plot points as they go.

Bond was guilty of this too when they decided to use SPECTRE at the eleventh hour to tie all the Daniel Craig films together even though Skyfall was quite obviously never intended to be part of the story arc.

It's a little more complicated than that. George Lucas is rumored to have been on the DGA blacklist ever since Empire cause he wouldn't let the film have opening credits (they didn't give a shit for the original film). That's apparently why Speilberg didn't end up directing Return of the Jedi. He didn't wanna risk getting blacklisted as well. 

iirc Lucas had asked Kasdan to write the prequels back when the ball was getting rolling on those in 1994, but kasdan turned it down. Rumor has it Kasdan was afraid of being blacklisted by the guild as well. Other rumors suggest it was cause Lucas and Kasdan had a personal fallout at the time. If the latter is true, they must've made peace at some point cause they were both at a WGA event together back in like 2007 or so.

[luciusfunk]

Lucas has been blacklisted since the 70s and he tried to get other directors to do the prequels.