China Exchange: 60 Minutes with Axl Rose

[Kickingthehabit]

What the fuck is this "working hard?" There's an underlying criticism there and it's cheap. History shows us that Axl's idea of "working hard" isn't about releasing music. It's about withstanding criticism for not releasing music. How in the fuck has Slash not worked hard?

[Blackstar]

2 hours ago, Original said:

He had to have known all along what a Slash return would me.  Does anyone actually think that deep down he thought to himself he could have a band as big as real Guns were without Slash?  I mean if he were off his meds maybe?  Andwith all the 'yes men' surrounding him maybe he did.  He also once said something like "I only wanted Slash to be loved and appreciated" ..... And he told Loder in regards to why it was taking so long to record and get CD done his answer was "Slash".

Yeah, he must have been fully aware of this when he made the big decision to reunite with Slash. He's not that delusional. I'm sure he is also fully aware that there's no going back to an "old" nuGuns lineup after this; not because he wouldn't want to go back, but because the fans, at least the majority, won't accept it. He's not at the same position as Slash and Duff; they are active and have other projects to go to when the reunion thing is over, but Axl has nowhere to go to. That's why he wants it to last for quite a while and at the same time he explores other possibilities (to work with Angus, to make music for films, to write a book...)

Edited June 10, 2016 by Blackstar

[The Archer]

15 minutes ago, Kickingthehabit said:

What the fuck is this "working hard?" There's an underlying criticism there and it's cheap. History shows us that Axl's idea of "working hard" isn't about releasing music. It's about withstanding criticism for not releasing music. How in the fuck has Slash not worked hard?

As far as this interview went, it seemed 'working hard' came up as pretty honest feedback and praise in terms of Slash putting the effort into playing and learning the Buckethead and Bumblefoot parts, not about releasing new music, or withstanding criticism for not releasing it. 

[Carne_asaDA]

How late was Axl to this?

[Frey]

9 hours ago, Kickingthehabit said:

What the fuck is this "working hard?" There's an underlying criticism there and it's cheap. History shows us that Axl's idea of "working hard" isn't about releasing music. It's about withstanding criticism for not releasing music. How in the fuck has Slash not worked hard?

Yes. That part where he said the last time he talked with Slash, Slash supposedly said "I don't want to work so hard." annnoyed me as well. He then followed it up by talking about how Slash works real hard nowadays though, didn't even have to tell him to learn CD songs.

That's not  a compliment (and WTF at anyone saying it is). That's Axl implying (or rather outright saying) Slash was a lazy fuck and that Slash being a lazy fuck in the past was the problem. 

And frankly, I call bullshit on that. Slash is a self-admitted workaholic and has always kept busy with something. Meanwhile, a certain ginger basically did nothing for years, but has the nerve to call other people lazy... 

[rudolf1978]

He says that he likes to play CD songs because he likes i think he loves that kind of sound,And i dont see any knife to slash.

[wasted]

This is a thought that crossed my mind but I don't know enough about the industry or behind the scenes to really know. First time, it was about why is Axl singing better and it crossed my mind that well now he has a bigger budget to help him but also risking his voice is more worth it. Okay with Nu Guns he got paid but there was no glory or anyone paying too much attention. So hiring a vocal coach isn't worth it. Because you don't get as much money and no one's going to really give much credit anyway. So he could if he felt like it, but now his ass is on the line but there's money to get prepared and feel great about it. 

Same could apply to PR. I remember the cane in Nu Guns era, it was like wtf is he handicapped? But with reunion money you can afford a proper PR campaign and they make and tackle everything and make you cool. Now the cane is sex toy. 

He can work out what to say and where and when to say it. Even with DC, did his PR go yes great idea, go win back the hard rock fans. But that costs money, money he didn't spend on CD. Just like the label said doing a video not worth it for CD. Because it's not going to sell more because of a vid so don't bother. But now the money is flowing so the media works for you, the label will give you money if they are thinking well if Slash is back that could 100 mil dollars for us, send them a mil for studio time and crate of imported mangos. The media can now write their reunion stories and clamor for pics. Everyone gets paid. 

 

[Mr. Dude]

10 hours ago, Kickingthehabit said:

What the fuck is this "working hard?" There's an underlying criticism there and it's cheap. History shows us that Axl's idea of "working hard" isn't about releasing music. It's about withstanding criticism for not releasing music. How in the fuck has Slash not worked hard?

Its harder work to withstand the criticism.

[wasted]

11 hours ago, Kickingthehabit said:

What the fuck is this "working hard?" There's an underlying criticism there and it's cheap. History shows us that Axl's idea of "working hard" isn't about releasing music. It's about withstanding criticism for not releasing music. How in the fuck has Slash not worked hard?

I think the last time Axl and Slash spoke Slash was telling Axl how he didn't want to work that hard, he just wanted to do Snakepit as is and hit the road. He didn't want anything to do with Axl's ballads or any Axl industrial shit as it was too much hassle. So perhaps that's what Axl is refering to? Slash didn't shun CD material for the reunion shows. He wrote a new intro for Better etc. Axl is impressed with Slash's new attitude in GNR. We can only hope it continues. 

[Top-Hatted One]

9 minutes ago, wasted said:

I think the last time Axl and Slash spoke Slash was telling Axl how he didn't want to work that hard, he just wanted to do Snakepit as is and hit the road. He didn't want anything to do with Axl's ballads or any Axl industrial shit as it was too much hassle. So perhaps that's what Axl is refering to? Slash didn't shun CD material for the reunion shows. He wrote a new intro for Better etc. Axl is impressed with Slash's new attitude in GNR. We can only hope it continues. 

And it started with VR before Scott joined the band. They sent him the songs they wrote with izzy and Scott wasn't overly impressed. He said they sounded like Bad Company and that didn't excite him. Then Slash & duff wrote another batch of songs like Slither, Do it for the kids, Superhuman, Headspace and VR were born.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Top-Hatted One

[Frey]

1 hour ago, Top-Hatted One said:

And it started with VR before Scott joined the band. They sent him the songs they wrote with izzy and Scott wasn't overly impressed. He said they sounded like Bad Company and that didn't excite him. Then Slash & duff wrote another batch of songs like Slither, Do it for the kids, Superhuman, Headspace and VR were born.

Do we know which songs they wrote with Izzy? I really want to hear them. And fuck Scott for throwing them aside.

[Rovim]

2 minutes ago, Frey said:

Do we know which songs they wrote with Izzy? I really want to hear them. And fuck Scott for throwing them aside.

He said he thought it sounded like Bad Company. Fuck him for not working on ideas he didn't like.

[Frey]

What's wrong with Bad Company? I like some of their songs a lot more than most of the crap VR has produced. 

And yes, fuck him. We could have had songs written by 3/5 of GnR. And seeing as Izzy was always one of the better song writers in this band, those songs probably were better than what came after Scott discarded them.

[wasted]

52 minutes ago, Frey said:

Do we know which songs they wrote with Izzy? I really want to hear them. And fuck Scott for throwing them aside.

Bomb off Like a Dog sounds like Do it for the Kids. 

Maybe some of that Izzy stuff ended up on an Izzy album or Duff solo? There's this hope that there's a great GNR album collecting dust in a warehouse somewhere in the Mexican area 5,  Axl Jones has a map and a camel ride before he can get to the holy grill. 

[Rovim]

43 minutes ago, Frey said:

What's wrong with Bad Company? I like some of their songs a lot more than most of the crap VR has produced. 

And yes, fuck him. We could have had songs written by 3/5 of GnR. And seeing as Izzy was always one of the better song writers in this band, those songs probably were better than what came after Scott discarded them.

Nothing's wrong with Bad Company. But it was an album Scott was going to be a part of and he never liked that sort of music. Izzy wrote the riff for Do It For The Kids or something I think.

You can't expect a musician to use an idea just cause it came from someone like Izzy. If he didn't connect with it, not his fault. (or really his decision)

[wasted]

Suckertrain blues seems very Izzy Strad. It's like something off UYI. 

Obviously Slither and Fall to Pieces are very Slash. 

Got no Right and Loving the Alien are Scott as I remember. 

I remember something about Set Me Free and how Scott really worked his magic and turned the material into songs which were about something. 

[Rovim]

5 minutes ago, wasted said:

Suckertrain blues seems very Izzy Strad. It's like something off UYI. 

Obviously Slither and Fall to Pieces are very Slash. 

Got no Right and Loving the Alien are Scott as I remember. 

I remember something about Set Me Free and how Scott really worked his magic and turned the material into songs which were about something. 

Yeah Kushner said people don't realize what Scott did with the material. He did this sort of thing in his solo albums as well. He had a knack of makeing ideas his own, knowing where to take them. Shit clicked with Slither, Fall To Pieces, Set Me Free, and even on Libertad you had Let It Roll.

Suckertrain Blues probably my favorite. The Scott megaphone in the beginning and Slash's solo with the dead animals and tape worm abortions.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Rovim

[gunsfanoldie]

Maybe old by this point but there is enough give and take this year for neither Slash nor Axl to feel jealous.

Yes, we're all interested again because Slash is back. Your move Axl.

The band is playing Chinese Democracy songs and Axl is touring with AC/DC and getting rave reviews. Your move Slash.

They are both getting their way and a HEALTHY amount of money as well. While I did think Axl was giving up too much, its also so clear how much he still controls and that Slash, whether by his own will or just motivated by money, is going along with it. Think of it this way: the whole show is about Slash but it all takes place in Axl's universe. Its a win-win for both.

[Iron MikeyJ]

It sounds like they (axl, slash, and duff) want to release new music, but they don't know how to go about doing it at this point. Axl still feels strongly about CD2, they all want to do NEW music, slash doesn't know how he feels about CD2 stuff. Im worried about this stuff, it sounds like it could potentially become an issue. Axl will push for CD2 songs to be on a new album, but Slash want new songs on it. The compromise is clear, do a bit of both. But in the past, compromise was never something they did well. Time will tell I suppose. But I will say this, CD2 can not be released without slash and duff on it, not before a new album with them on it. It would confuse the public, and would be poorly received imo. The only way that album, without slash and duff on it, could see the light of day is in a box set imo. But again, thats after a new slash gnr album. You have to give the people what they want first, then they are more receptive to a bonus.

[wasted]

2 hours ago, Rovim said:

Yeah Kushner said people don't realize what Scott did with the material. He did this sort of thing in his solo albums as well. He had a knack of makeing ideas his own, knowing where to take them. Shit clicked with Slither, Fall To Pieces, Set Me Free, and even on Libertad you had Let It Roll.

Suckertrain Blues probably my favorite. The Scott megaphone in the beginning and Slash's solo with the dead animals and tape worm abortions.

She Mine was almost the most awesome thing I've heard in rock in the last 10 years. I know it's not really rock, I'm not sure what it is. VR had the basics but special was Loving the Alien. Mary Mary was kind of cool. Last Fight was pretty great. But Libetad was getting away from needing Slash, some of it didn't really sound like Slash. Last Fight, American man and Can't Get Out of My Head don't really. 

[Top-Hatted One]

4 hours ago, Frey said:

What's wrong with Bad Company? I like some of their songs a lot more than most of the crap VR has produced. 

And yes, fuck him. We could have had songs written by 3/5 of GnR. And seeing as Izzy was always one of the better song writers in this band, those songs probably were better than what came after Scott discarded them.

Some of the demos are out there. Not sure if they had written more but 'Pleasin' which people thought sounded like Bon Jovi at the time. Pleasin became Ghost and one of them became Do it for the kids maybe Room 169. There was another decent one song by Kelly Schaefer but it was also also cheesy 80s sounding. 

 

Anyway the the kind of band GNR was it was best they kept evolving cos they are not ACDC 

[Top-Hatted One]

Slash and duff evolved which is what Axl wanted. He knew they had it in them to push themselves.

just look at how they evolved from Believe in Me and Snakepit. A GNR album in 2017 will be special

Edited June 11, 2016 by Top-Hatted One

[maxpax]

The Guns N’ Roses reunion didn’t happen by chance or whatever. It was always looked at as a possibility, but it never seemed right or felt right.”

@Dexter are you serious, dude? 

[Blackstar]

19 hours ago, wasted said:

I think the last time Axl and Slash spoke Slash was telling Axl how he didn't want to work that hard, he just wanted to do Snakepit as is and hit the road. He didn't want anything to do with Axl's ballads or any Axl industrial shit as it was too much hassle. So perhaps that's what Axl is refering to? Slash didn't shun CD material for the reunion shows. He wrote a new intro for Better etc. Axl is impressed with Slash's new attitude in GNR. We can only hope it continues. 

This is one of the issues about which Axl claims that Slash lied. Axl hasn't given a coherent account of his version, but there are fragments in various interviews which could form a narrative if been put together.

In Axl's version, he wanted at first to make an album close to AFD, maybe more "modern" sounding with some grunge and industrial influences; in his mind this would be an evolution of the band's sound, not a change of direction: "I originally wanted to make a traditional record or try to get back to an "Appetite [For Destruction]" thing or something, because that would have been a lot easier for me to do." ... " That was a big difference between myself and Slash and Duff, is that I didn't hate everything new that came out. I really liked the Seattle movement. I like White Zombie. I like Nine Inch Nails, and I like hip-hop. I don't hate everything." (1999), "The music changed after Slash and I parted so the direction was where I took Guns not where I had intended or tried to go previously." (...) "I liked other things as well so I wanted to explore, be legitimate and survive. I wasn’t doing what was written so often about chasing fads etc. " (2008). He's said he'd written some songs during and after the UYI tour which were rejected and called "crap" by Slash and Duff: "... anything I had written I felt was in similar directions [with AFD] then, during and after the 'Illusions' tour was more than rejected by both Slash and Duff at a time". (2009), "To those three [Slash, Duff and Stephanie Seymour], it was all crap. It beat me down so much. At the time of the (Use Your Illusion) tours, Slash and Duff said, 'You're an idiot, you're a loser.' " (2012). ¹

Then Slash brought in the material that later made the Snakepit album, which he'd worked with Matt and Gilby. Slash says that Axl disliked all of it and, in the meantime, he'd imposed Paul Huge, who was impossible to work with, on him to "help" in writing³. Duff says he backed Axl regarding Slash's material ("it was southern rock, not Guns n Roses"), but he took Slash's side about Paul Huge. Axl' said he didn't like the Snakepit songs apart from some good parts and ideas that could be developed: "And I didn't believe in it. I thought that there were riffs and parts and some ideas, I thought, that needed to be developed. I had no problem working on it, or working with it, but you know, as is, I think I'm with the public on that one." (1999). Eventually Slash did the Snakepit album. According to his book, he and the Jellyfish singer wrote lyrics for the songs and recorded them without Axl knowing; when he told Axl about it, Axl was somehow shocked and couldn't believe that it was possible for an album to be recorded in such a short time; after that, he and Axl hadn't been speaking to each other for some time.² According to Axl, Slash wouldn't allow any kind of changes to the songs, not even lyrics and melodies: "Duff walked out on it, and I walked out on it, because I wasn't allowed to be any part of it. It's like, 'No, you do this, that's how it is." (1999), "I was specifically told no lyrics, no melodies, no changes to anything and to sing what I was told or fuck off."  (2008) (it is not clear whether Axl was referring to the Snakepit songs or to songs Slash wrote after that). All of this took place during 1994.

Slash released the Snakepit album, went on tour for it and Axl brought Zakk Wylde in to work with Slash after the tour (According to Slash's book, Axl had the record company to bring him back before the tour ended).  Axl's said he'd decided to do an album that would make Slash happy, a "blues rock" album: “Originally I intended to do more of an Appetite style recording but with the changes in the band's dynamics and the band's musical influences at the time it didn't appear realistic. So, I opted for what I thought would or should've made the band and especially Slash very happy. Basically I was interested in making a Slash record with some contributions from everybody else. [2002], "I have the rehearsal tapes. There's nothing but Slash-based blues rock and he stopped it to both go solo and try to completely take over Guns." (2008), "Jesus, I wouldn’t have agreed for Zakk to come down if any of Slash’s or the media’s nonsense [about him intending to change the direction of the band] were real." (2008). Both Slash and Axl coincide on that things couldn't work with Zakk, though according to Axl "It brought out some interesting things and it would’ve worked to do some songs."⁴ (2002). Meanwhile, there was the name grab which led to a "trial period". Axl's said Slash came up with some really good stuff at that time, among it what would become VR's "Fall to pieces", but was reluctant to work and develop it: "Had Slash stepped up and written what we captured glimpses of, it would have created an environment that was beyond Slash’s ability to control. (...)  Was he capable of doing it? Absolutely 100%. I think that some of the riffs that were coming out of him were the meanest, most contemporary, bluesiest, rocking thing since Aerosmith’s Rocks. The 2000 version of Aerosmith Rocks or the 1996 Aerosmith Rocks by the time we would have put it out. I don’t know if I would have wanted to even do a world tour at the time but I wanted to put that record together and could we have done it? Yes." (2002), "...the trial period where Slash played the key bits of Fall to Pieces but once I showed some interest that was over." (2008)⁵. Slash says in his book that he tried but he couldn't have Axl's "dictatorship" anymore and that their disagreement about the new record wasn't the reason why he eventually left.

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¹ According to an Axl interview in 1994*, one of those songs must have been a first version of TIL. Another title is "Oklahoma". It's unclear what happened to the rest of the songs Axl wrote back then, particularly those he claims that were close to AFD, whether they evolved to CD songs or were abandoned. It's also been documented in contemporary interviews (a rare joint Axl-Slash interview and a few Slash interviews) that Axl had been considering for a while a solo or side project, then abandoned the idea (probably because he couldn't get the musicians he wanted to work with). In one of those interviews (1995) Slash'd said: "At one point he said he was gonna a solo project, then he decided his solo project he could do with Guns, which I was like, after doing all those videos and this and that and the other, I was like: "No". [laughs]  No, I don't wanna get involved in any kind of Stephanie Seymour ballads or any of that shit." Slash doesn't mention this in his book and Axl hasn't talked about it since.

² According to the same 1995 Slash interview, Axl changed his mind about 4-5 of the Snakepit songs and wanted to do them; Slash declined and Axl threatened to sue him for taking GnR material: "I took off and then he threatened to sue me, because he wanted the material back that I'd written and already recorded." "...all of a sudden, after the album was finished, he goes: 'Remember those tapes I have. You know, I want to...'. He didn't know we'd finished the record. And he goes: 'This song, this song, this song, this song and this song.' And I went: 'Dude, we finished it already. It's gone'." . He doesn't mention this in his book.

³ Sometime between those events the "Sympathy for the Devil" story took place. Slash says in his book that he didn't want to do it in the first place, he did it reluctantly and then Axl had Huge to double his solo, which pissed him off. Axl hasn't commented on that.

⁴ At that time (1995), Izzy sort of came back and recorded demos with Duff for the GnR album. Neither Slash nor Duff, from what I remember, say anything about this in their books, although there were mentions in contemporary Slash interviews ("[Izzy]'s been writing; he wrote some stuff with Duff. He wants to write songs, but he doesn't wanna deal with the whole thing... He's so laid back. He doesn't want to deal any pressure... Izzy's Izzy.", "Izzy agrees with writing stuff but he's not interested in touring... He doesn't want to deal with Axl.") and Izzy himself spoke about it in 2001.  Axl hasn't said anything about it, either. Had he listened to the demos and disliked them? Who knows.

⁵ Separate 1996 interviews by Axl, Slash, Duff and Matt, a little while before Slash left, give the impression that they had come to a sort of consensus about what they were going to do (although Slash'd said he hadn't been rehearsing with them at that time): "It's amazing stuff. The songs are really good, and I have a good vibe about it. I wouldn't want to go out and do a bad Guns N' Roses record." (Slash), "The record will be all up-tempo rock songs ("No ballads," McKagan said firmly)". It also seems that at that time Paul Huge had been put aside and, according to the interviews, Axl rehearsed with them playing rhythm guitar. This is not mentioned in Slash's book.

--------

It seems that there were some references in Slash's 1994-95 interviews, which partly corroborate Axl's version. In his book Slash either doesn't mention those events or gives a slightly different version of them. It's most probably due to bad memory; he himself says that he has a vague memory of that period.

Overall, Axl strongly denies that he wanted to change the direction and / or to switch to industrial for the new GnR record before Slash left the band. A big part, though, of what he claims to be Slash's lies regarding this issue is not in the book but in a 2000 Slash interview: "This all happened in the brake between the end of the "Illusions"-tour and the proposed beginning of recordings for the next GN'R album. On the first Snakepit-record I used some ideas which were really planned for the next GN'R-record, but Axl and I disagreed on the future direction of the band. I played Axl a demo with some of my ideas for songs, and all he said was: 'I don't feel like playing this kind of music.' I answered: 'But this could be a excellent Gunner-record, hundred percent in GN'R style.' He didn't really care 'cause he only wanted to play industrial and Pearl Jam-sounding crap." This is when Axl started calling Slash a liar (in his 2002 interview) and told Marc Canter around that time that Slash could play on CD "if he apologized for the lies he'd told about him".

Another thing that must have beaten Axl a lot was VR, because their sound wasn't far from what he says he wanted to do originally; and Slash did it with Scott Weiland instead of him, while he was mocking Axl for liking grunge and post grunge bands like STP.

As for "not working hard", from what I understand, for Axl it means not to be willing to play and record a part of a song uncountable times til it sounds "good enough", as he does. Slash (and Izzy) wanted to rehearse a few times, record 2-3 takes and finish.

----

*The source for the quotes from the old interviews is the very detailed work in the "Chinese whispers" section of gnrevolution.com

Edited June 12, 2016 by Blackstar

[sanity_lost]

14 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I had to like this for all the work you put into it. Nice.