The Religion/Spirituality Thread

[Sosso]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The usual suspects are prowling around Mikey haha

I wonder why he listens to rock music. Isn't it satanic propaganda? 

[Iron MikeyJ]

6 minutes ago, Sosso said:

I wonder why he listens to rock music. Isn't it satanic propaganda? 

Yes it is. I actually REALLY had to think about that. Which the thing to remember is if somethings leads you to sin, than it should be avoided. There WAS a time I was all about sex, drugs, and rock and roll. So at that point in my life, it wasnt a good thing for me. 

Now on the other hand, I'm strong enough to resist those temptations. It's literally JUST a form of entertainment, which we are allowed entertainment. Having said that, I dont spend NEARLY as much time listening or worrying about rock music as I used to. It probably takes up around 5% of my free time now, when it used to take up 75%.

[DieselDaisy]

I wouldn't worry about any of that. ''Satanism''? Nihilism? Rebellion? I have long convinced myself that 99.9% of all rock musicians were only ever in it for the money from the beginning.

[arnold layne]

1 hour ago, Oldest Goat said:

Do you personally require someone be a follower of Jesus for you to be able to consider them good?

The church I go to sometimes with my extended family preaches that we are all born sinners and the only way to heaven is through Jesus.

So basically there is no good person without Christ.

[Dazey]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I wouldn't worry about any of that. ''Satanism''? Nihilism? Rebellion? I have long convinced myself that 99.9% of all rock musicians were only ever in it for the money from the beginning.

Satanism isn't even a thing. LaVey Satanism is basically nothing more than excess humanism. Even if Satanism is a thing then at last they get all the best tunes. 

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, Dazey said:

Satanism isn't even a thing. LaVey Satanism is basically nothing more than excess humanism. Even if Satanism is a thing then at last they get all the best tunes. 

Just a bunch of spotty wankers in Metallica shirts, isn't it?

[Dazey]

11 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Just a bunch of spotty wankers in Metallica shirts, isn't it?

Exactly! Makes it all the more absurd when god botherers start pissing their pants over "satanists" who in all honestly are rarely anything more threatening a bunch of fat, acne ridden Marilyn Manson fans.

Edit. I love Marilyn Manson by the way. 

I'm also quite fat. 

I've always had perfect skin though.

[Iron MikeyJ]

Have any of you ever seen how much Laveys daughter looks like Taylor Swift? Kinda creepy imo.

https://goo.gl/images/TRjSGk

[soon]

[Iron MikeyJ]

I dont know guys...  I think they are more than just dudes in Metallica tshirts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Set

[Iron MikeyJ]

I know most of you (or any for that matter) will probably not watch this video, but you should!!! It's a Jewish Harvard professors on how he found Christ. He has really amazing insight into the role of Judaism. 

 

[SoulMonster]

10 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

I'm sorry you have such anger in your heart. I hope you are able to find some peace in your life. 

There is no anger inherent in pointing out that theism is like a mental disease that goes from parents to children. You might find it abrasive and offensive, but there is no anger there. I am no more angry on theists than I am on people with, say, cancer or any other disease. Why would I? And wasn't there a moderately wise man who once said, and I am paraphrasing -- but so are all -- that one should "hate the sin but not the sinner"? Well, I can't even bring myself to hate the sin, which in this case is the underlying irrationality. I mean, strong feelings are reserved for humans, not immaterial concepts like thinking errors. So when I in my profession work on fighting cancers, it is not derived from a hatred of cancer itself (which is a non-sentient artifact of nature) but more of a love or solidarity with people affected by cancers; similarly, when I oppose theisms it is not from some hatred or anger over the idea that supernatural gods exist, but out of pity and solidarity with humans who might have their lives negatively affected by such nonsense.

[SoulMonster]

10 hours ago, OmarBradley said:

With ya until the Islam bit. How are you quantifying impediments to social and cultural progress? Admittedly, I'm not well read on the workings of any major religion (as it's all hogwash). I don't feel like educating myself on fantasy for the purpose of arguing in support of reality.

It's an incredible difficult exercise, and apt to just devolve into endless discussions on details, which is why I don't like singling out particular forms of theisms. But I do think a very strong case can be made that the social stagnation (in terms of inequality of sexes, lack of human rights protection, lack of free press, lack of LGBT rights, etc) and scientific (I wrote "scientific", not "cultural") backwardness (in terms of scientific papers per capita) that we see in muslim countries (not secular countries with lots of muslims, so Turkey etc excepted, but Islamic states), is not just coincidental correlation, but true causality coming from religious opposition to social reform and scientific endavours.

[SoulMonster]

8 hours ago, Dazey said:

This was my daughter at her 4th birthday party earlier today.

She's going to burn in hell apparently.  

Look at that sinner.

7 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Just a bunch of spotty wankers in Metallica shirts, isn't it?

Haha, yes. Or, well, Norwegian satanists did it properly 

[SoulMonster]

11 hours ago, soon said:

What viewpoint of the Trinity are you informed by? That's not a uniform question the way you seem to believe it to be.

If you would bother to read just the first chapter of one of 4 brief Gospels you'd see the all the assumptions you are making. John chapter 1 (I really encourage the NRSV translation)

I don't think Dazey asked about what the bible said on the matter, but your opinions on whether Jesus was the son of god, or more broadly whether you acknowledged the supernatural aspect of your religious beliefs. It is a fairly simple question, if it requires a complex answer then why don't you give us that?

My theory is that you are embarrassed to admit believing in something supernatural, something which originates entirely in your own mind, you prefer not to say it aloud (or type it out) because at some level you cringe and it makes you doubt and religious doubt is painful, so you try to turn any such discussions into mystical mumbo jumbo and meta-theology where the idiocy of actually believing in a supernatural god is somewhat obfuscated or becomes secondary. Intelligent people tend to do that. It's a mental coping mechanism.

 

[SoulMonster]

Conservative Floridian Enjoys Living Under Sharia Law More Than He Thought He Would

 

MACCLENNY, FL—Calling its clearly laid out regulations “surprisingly refreshing,” conservative Floridian man Ernest Moyer told reporters Friday he enjoys living under Sharia Law much more than he thought he would. “I gotta admit, when I said ‘Those damn Arabs are gonna ruin democracy’ I didn’t expect strictly abiding by the words of Muhammed would be so amazing for me,” said the 63-year-old follower of Islam, who, despite once fearing “the rule of that Muslim Obama and his Saudi P.C. militia,” now enjoys submitting his will to the Almighty during daily prayer, almsgiving, and his countless other fiqh rituals. “Sure, I miss drinking beer, but overall—thank Allah—I’m loving it. Praying towards Mecca is great, and eating Halal is pretty awesome if you know how to really prepare it. Plus, there’s these great retributive penal orders like stoning, beheading, and amputating—and I’m not just saying that because apostasy is punishable by death.” Moyer added that in a lot of ways, such as the law’s hostility towards women, gays, and criminals, things have barely even changed.

Sourve: https://local.theonion.com/conservative-floridian-enjoys-living-under-sharia-law-m-1830188924

[soon]

3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't think Dazey asked about what the bible said on the matter, but your opinions on whether Jesus was the son of god, or more broadly whether you acknowledged the supernatural aspect of your religious beliefs. It is a fairly simple question, if it requires a complex answer then why don't you give us that?

An honest assessment of the exchange is that I was happily responding and trying to add substance to a vapid and prefabricated line of uninformed questions. I was happy to continue but he wasn't. He was unable or unwilling to continue so he tapped out with humour.

And then here you come in the typical tag team fashion that you new atheists depend on.

3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

My theory is that you are embarrassed to admit believing in something supernatural, something which originates entirely in your own mind, you prefer not to say it aloud (or type it out) because at some level you cringe and it makes you doubt and religious doubt is painful, so you try to turn any such discussions into mystical mumbo jumbo and meta-theology where the idiocy of actually believing in a supernatural god is somewhat obfuscated or becomes secondary. Intelligent people tend to do that. It's a mental coping mechanism.

You are free to think this. I dont think you actually do though. I think you try and make up for your inability to discuss real world Christian thought by using aggression.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, soon said:

An honest assessment of the exchange is that I was happily responding and trying to add substance to a vapid and prefabricated line of uninformed questions. I was happy to continue but he wasn't. He was unable or unwilling to continue so he tapped out with humour.

And then here you come in the typical tag team fashion that you new atheists depend on.

You are free to think this. I dont think you actually do though. I think you try and make up for your inability to discuss real world Christian thought by using aggression.

It's "vapid" to ask you about your views on the supernatural aspect of your beliefs? Then by all means, shed some light on your beliefs, then . Help us "uninformed" unbelievers understand.

I absolutely do think I was spot on when explaining why you consistently refuse to discuss the supernatural aspect of your beliefs and instead divert and confuse the discussion. You are embarrassed. It doesn't align with your own perception of yourself as an intelligent, rational human being. So you prefer not to talk about it. You probably at some level understand it doesn't hold up to proper scrutiny so better to avoid bringing it to light. Better to devote yourself in the more esoteric aspects of your beliefs. Hide in the details and peripheral aspects rather than openly acknowledge that you believe that Jesus was the son of "God" and that he died for our sings and was resurrected and now is rejoined with his father, or something to that effect.

[soon]

8 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

 

I absolutely do think I was spot on when explaining why you consistently refuse to discuss the supernatural aspect of your beliefs and instead divert and confuse the discussion. You are embarrassed. It doesn't align with your own perception of yourself as an intelligent, rational human being. So you prefer not to talk about it. You probably at some level understand it doesn't hold up to proper scrutiny so better to avoid bringing it to light. Better to devote yourself in the more esoteric aspects of your beliefs. Hide in the details and peripheral aspects rather than openly acknowledge that you believe that Jesus was the son of "God" and that he died for our sings and was resurrected and now is rejoined with his father, or something to that effect.

Like I say. You can say you think that. The fact is that I have respectful, engaging and mutually edifying conversations about my Christianity on this forum almost daily.

[DieselDaisy]

7 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

It's an incredible difficult exercise, and apt to just devolve into endless discussions on details, which is why I don't like singling out particular forms of theisms. But I do think a very strong case can be made that the social stagnation (in terms of inequality of sexes, lack of human rights protection, lack of free press, lack of LGBT rights, etc) and scientific (I wrote "scientific", not "cultural") backwardness (in terms of scientific papers per capita) that we see in muslim countries (not secular countries with lots of muslims, so Turkey etc excepted, but Islamic states), is not just coincidental correlation, but true causality coming from religious opposition to social reform and scientific endavours.

I don't agree with any of this.

It is not borne out by even the flimsiest glance at human history. For centuries (c.786-1258) the Muslim world was more advanced scientifically (inventions, mathematics, healthcare), culturally (architecture, literature), pertaining to status of women, than western Europe was at a similar time. Further this is the outlet thorough which much of our classical pagan/secular knowledge was handed down to us. As a scientificy person much of the knowledge and instruments you no doubt work with were handed down by the Muslims!

Other factors clearly contribute to present day middle-eastern backwardness, most of them pertaining to the colonial and post-colonialism (and Cold War) geo-economic, although some like ethnic tension precede Hegira itself.

[Len Cnut]

Quote

the Muslim world was more advanced scientifically (inventions, mathematics, healthcare), culturally (architecture, literature), pertaining to status of women, than western Europe was at a similar time.

They've been lapped multiple times since though eh?  

[DieselDaisy]

4 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

They've been lapped multiple times since though eh?  

...and (I should have added) the Muslim world produced Len, gambles, drinks, eats junk food, ''innit?''. A glorious outcome of this Islamic Golden age indeed. 

[Len Cnut]

12 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

...and (I should have added) the Muslim world produced Len, gambles, drinks, eats junk food, ''innit?''. A glorious outcome of this Islamic Golden age indeed. 

I love how 'eats junk food' is like a deadly sin to you  

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

I don't agree with any of this.

Of course you can't. People don't change, societies don't change, cultures don't change -- it all stays the same, right? 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

‘Take This Grape For It Is The Witch’s Eye, Take This Spaghetti For It Is The Witch’s Brain,’ Says Pope Francis During Halloween-Themed Communion

 

VATICAN CITY—Standing before his costumed congregants in St. Peter’s Basilica, Pope Francis declared, “Take this grape for it is the witch’s eye, take this spaghetti for it is the witch’s brain,” during a Halloween-themed Communion Wednesday, Vatican sources confirmed.

Holy See officials told reporters that the Bishop of Rome delivered his sermon bedecked in black-and-orange vestments as parishioners stood in line to be blindfolded and place their right hands in bowls of peeled grapes and cooked noodles during the Vatican’s traditional Monster Mass.

“In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Spooky Ghost,” said the Pontiff, while altar boys dressed as specters held aloft thuribles full of dry ice and lit the votive jack-o-lanterns throughout the church. “Our Father, who art in Heaven, Halloween thy name; Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, by the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes.”

“Bwahahahamen,” the pope added.

In an effort to cater to the estimated 30,000 Catholics from around the world who made the pilgrimage to Rome this year, St. Peter’s Square has reportedly been outfitted as a haunted hay maze to accommodate spillover attendees, with clergy dressed as mummies and werewolves hiding behind the colonnades in order to jump out at unsuspecting worshippers. Those who were able to secure tickets for the main service reportedly crowded into the basilica to bob for apples in the baptismal font, hear readings from the Book of Hexodus, and receive the sacrament of Unholy Boocharist.

Vatican sources confirmed that after His Holiness Pope Francis delivered the introductory frights, he welcomed the visiting Bishop of Transylvania, who led the congregation in the Scary eleison while church officials passed around plastic pumpkins to collect tithes. The ceremony reportedly continued with those assembled singing the traditional hymn “Dear Lord and Father of Wolfmankind” before the pontiff delivered a short homily centered on the miracle of the resurrection of Frankenstein’s monster.

“As usual, Pope Francis’s mass was petrifyingly pious and spine-tinglingly soul-saving,” said parishioner Renee Dunbar of Salem, MA, clutching a rosary featuring a miniature scarecrow nailed to a cross. “I feel blessed that I was also able to secure tickets to the adults-only midnight service, which is supposed to be even creepier than tonight’s family-friendly version.”

“Francis has shown once again that he’s willing to be a reformer and lead the Church into the future,” she added. “His communion was way better than the gore-and-dismemberment-centered torture sacrament that Pope Benedict would get into every year.”

Source: https://www.theonion.com/take-this-grape-for-it-is-the-witch-s-eye-take-this-s-1830130596

Edited November 12, 2018 by SoulMonster

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Of course you can't. People don't change, societies don't change, cultures don't change -- it all stays the same, right? 

If a causal relationship existed between Islam and backwardness, then we would have presumably seen the two factors, presence of the Muslim religion and backwardness, co-joined like Siamese twins, since the Hegira to the present day. As this clearly wasn't the case, as the Islamic Golden Age testifies, your entire premise is deeply flawed.

Why are you so flippantly willing to ignore alternative reasons for alleged ''Arab backwardness''?