Cultural/Political/Social Trends & Divergence Thread

[wasted]

37 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I barely remember it, it's more than ten years ago. It was probably too British for Dutch students. : )

Ah, I see. Well, he waffles on and has no real insight other than basic middleclass cliches. Old Heritage sites are fascinating, 70s architecture is always a postmodern eyesore. Then I went to get a coffee. He just wants everything to be nice and wonderful. He only really wants one kind of Britishness. Wells good, Slough bad. 

And he just never does anything. He just goes from hotel to tourist sites that we all know are terrible experiences. He has a sort of waffly style that you expect of royalty or Hugh Grant. 

I have read about 5 of his books though. There’s normally one funny bit in each book, but he hammers it to death. Australia equals flies. Hot flies. 

He’s not interesring but he’s read about intetesting things then goes to where it originated and then tells you about it. Like his version or retelling of history mixed in with rambling observations. I mean it’s a good holiday or pre holiday read, but they aren’t great books. It’s like on the same level as Tommy Lee’s autobiographer.  

Edited August 24, 2018 by wasted

[wasted]

11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Brilliant author. Very elegant prose. And ridiculously funny.

He’s an absolute tosser. 

[EvanG]

16 minutes ago, wasted said:

Ah, I see. Well, he waffles on and has no real insight other than basic middleclass cliches. Old Heritage sites are fascinating, 70s architecture is always a postmodern eyesore. Then I went to get a coffee. He just wants everything to be nice and wonderful. He only really wants one kind of Britishness. Wells good, Slough bad. 

I think that was the complaint, it was too boring, not that it was too difficult. But like I said, I don't really remember it. I never throw books out, so I probably still have it lying around, but I don't think I will read it (again) knowing now how British it is.

[soon]

On August 22, 2018 at 6:45 PM, killuridols said:

LOL does that Canadian intellectual hero have family in Argentina? Because here we have a bunch of people saying "you're a Marxist with iPhone" or "you're a hippie with OSDE" (OSDE is a health insurance company)...... but we've got the right answer for that
"Yes, I'm a leftie with iPhone and you... you are a fascist with salary bonus + paid vacations + leave of absence + pension. So please quit your labor rights, because they were all won by the left!"

Haha, a well stated answer to that! 

If not family, he probably lifted it from there, lol. He doesnt have too much original thoughts on these matters it seems! Apparently he's a descent psychologist who good peeps on this board have benefited from so I am happy for my buddies, but as a political voice he's in way over his head. He really likes to talk about an alleged conspiratorial element who blend post modernism and marxism with the goal of chopping everyones penis off (Im not even kidding!). Main issue is that when he talks about either marxism and postmodernism his ignorance of these subjects is impossible to miss. 

If only an Argentine Delegation could come shut him down! We are loosing the culture war so far, shamefully. Need some of that extra oomph y'all have! You can even wear your flags while you do it 

 

On August 22, 2018 at 6:45 PM, killuridols said:

haha, yes, on YouTube but the lyrics are in Spanish, you know?
I'll translate it for you though...

I'm giving up to the fact of this subject eventually getting old
Not like Cambalache * which is still trendy
Like a couple of droplets for the blind eyes
Like an antidote for the bad habits

How do you detect obscene governments?

They are the ones ratifying mining laws
They are the ones wearing Barrick Gold ** tattoos in their skin
They are the ones giving away to foreign companies
The whole Andes except their Grand Hotel

I call them the obscene governments

They cut the budget assigned for the teachers
They name a former repressor in charge of a Ministry
They manage the city as if it was a Football team
They confuse education with repression

I call them the obscene governments

And some of them are very good dancers
In Dancing With The Stars they know how to shine
And if they are tired of never setting foot in the Congress
An ephedrine battery will charge them again

I call them the obscene governments

They are not precisely trafficking ideas
They think they are smarter for having a big head
I rather have more than two fingers of forehead
Makes me aware of the big fish behind the curtain

This is the worst of the obscene governments
Without a doubt the worst of the obscene governments

Notes:
* 'Cambalache' is the title of a popular tango song written in 1934, which depicts in dialectic verses the corruption of the 20th century and unfortunately, things never got much better, so that's why he says the topics of that tango song are more up-to-date than the lyrics of this rock song.

** In this live version, he modifies the lyrics and adds Monsanto after singing Barrick Gold.

 

Thanks for writing out the lyrics for me . And I really appreciate the notes giving me insight into the rich history that informs the song.

What a cool track! I like the blending of regional horn sounds into rock! Powerful lyrics! Whats going on with "two fingers of forehead.." part? He says they have a big head, but then he's saying he wants a big head? Or is this a literal comment on small foreheads? (I think I get it, but Im curious to know for sure, lol)

That seems like a big concert. Are they like the Rage Against The Machine - the one token revolutionary band that tops the charts - or are many bands with antiestablishment tones able to capture large audiences? I figure you have more bands like this one?

[wasted]

4 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I think that was the complaint, it was too boring, not that it was too difficult. But like I said, I don't really remember it. I never throw books out, so I probably still have it lying around, but I don't think I will read it (again) knowing now how British it is.

He’s done Europe and America, I read Down Under the other year. The Short History of Everything. 

That’s a point, however British his affectations, his style is still big dumb American. His books are simple and bold, he’s like an educated version of Trump really. 

They are meant to be just amusing distractions though. 

[soon]

10 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

As far as this discussions goes, it hasn't anything to do with being conservative or progressive. For me, this is all about people jumping to conclusions. I am not taking a stance in the question of guilt between Monsanto and Argentinian farmers. I am taking a stance in whether it is right to just a priori put blame on one party. That's not fair. You have to base your conclusions on evidence. Not appeals to emotion. Not on predisposed opposition towards big industry. Evidence, evidence, evidence. Follow the evidence. If you don't have any, then don't jump on the screaming bandwagon. So what I am arguing against are arguments like "the farmers are innocent because they are poor," "Monsanto is to blame because they are a big corporation and hence evil," "Monsanto is to blame because the other party suffered leukemia," "Manufacturers of fertilizers should assign a rep to babysit farmers when they use the fertilizers to prevent them from spraying school grounds and using fertilizers as a condiment on their kids cereal." It's simply not enough for me. I think such argumentation is unfair. And I think everybody, even Monsanto, deserves to be judged fairly on basis of evidence. I guess it not politically correct to grant Monsanto fairness or even be treated as innocent until guilt has been proven, but I don't really care.

If I was to say what I personally think about who is in the wrong here, just pure speculation, then I would say that I think both Monsanto and the farmers are to blame. I wouldn't be surprised if Monsanto could have done more, or should have done more, and I wouldn't be surprised if the farmers were somewhat reckless with the administration of the fertilizers. I would think it unlikely if one party is 100 % free of guilt here. 

What I think is funny is that I believe most people here would agree with me if just Monsanto wasn't involved. 

Just speaking to the highlighted portion of this repose to dies.

Just popping in because i think its a language issue here. Progress in the sense that @DieselDaisy used it is not limited to the political spectrum use of progressive being a left of centre moderate. It can also be used by a NeoCon saying like "Once we get all the oil fields in the East de-nationalized we can impose trade deals to move that oil and that will be real progress." It can mean that the march of technology and free market leads humanity rather then the reverse. And its said to be humanities salvation.

This can still be placed in the traditional spectrum, but isnt limited to that usage.

[wasted]

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

How is Dies' not a romantic?   He belives in a higher power, romantic, always harking back to the past, romantic, holds the world around him to moral standards, romantic   This is a forum full of romantics really.

All GNR fans are Romantic Realists. 

[Len Cnut]

I've never understood the 'you're a leftie with an iphone' thing.  I mean obviously the implication is that iphones are the fruits of capitalism but so what?  You can use a communication tool produced in a capitalist world and be a left leaning?  Or even extreme left?  I mean thats not how it works, is it?  Che Gueverra wore a Rolex Submariner, was he uncommitted?  Castro wore two GMT Masters.

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, soon said:

Just speaking to the highlighted portion of this repose to dies.

Just popping in because i think its a language issue here. Progress in the sense that @DieselDaisy used it is not limited to the political spectrum use of progressive being a left of centre moderate. It can also be used by a NeoCon saying like "Once we get all the oil fields in the East de-nationalized we can impose trade deals to move that oil and that will be real progress." It can mean that the march of technology and free market leads humanity rather then the reverse. And its said to be humanities salvation.

This can still be placed in the traditional spectrum, but isnt limited to that usage.

Yeah, in that sense I am not progressive. Humans come first. Humanity comes first. Quality of life comes first.

[SoulMonster]

No, you are all wrong, Bryson really is amazing. Right, @DieselDaisy?

[EvanG]

6 minutes ago, wasted said:

He’s done Europe and America, I read Down Under the other year. The Short History of Everything. 

That’s a point, however British his affectations, his style is still big dumb American. His books are simple and bold, he’s like an educated version of Trump really. 

They are meant to be just amusing distractions though. 

All I remember is that another teacher told us that my British teacher, who had put one of his books on the list, thought he was hilarious because of the British humour he used, and I figured that might have been the reason why some students didn't like the book.

[wasted]

7 hours ago, EvanG said:

All I remember is that another teacher told us that my British teacher, who had put one of his books on the list, thought he was hilarious because of the British humour he used, and I figured that might have been the reason why some students didn't like the book.

It’s quite a tiring style to read. He goes on a bit.

One chapter a day is enough because he repeats the same stuff every chapter.

Australia is inhospitable whereever he goes. Australians are down to earth. Really! It’s hot. They drink beer. Never! 

I just don’t think he was being honest. He’d never say it was shit but he was really struggling to find anything that was good. But he kept doing the old snake and beer combo. It’s like he wanted to say it’s hot, dangerous, the food is shit and I can’t wait to leave but the taxi driver was a good bloke but I have to get the fuck out of here. 

So you can’t really trust his opinion. But the thing about everyone having a team of flies that follow them around is pretty funny. There’s always something. It’s just you have to wade through a lot of banality and repetition. It’s like he’s trying to capture the essence of Australia in the widest most general way.  

Edited August 25, 2018 by wasted

[wasted]

20 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

No, you are all wrong, Bryson really is amazing. Right, @DieselDaisy?

He’s from Durham and probably seen him at the cricket. Bryson wouldn’t like Silkworms I can guarantee it. 

[killuridols]

5 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I never said I had experience of farming in the third world myself  It is more about having sympathy for workers regardless of what they do. One working man to another. The dirt under my nails used to come from eel poop and industrial oil, not soil and plant shit. Btw, I have asked my gardener to grow more than just a couple of vegetables, so you are wrong on that one, too.

You have no experience farming anywhere and sympathy for the workers? YEAH, I CAN TELL!

5 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

The evidence that supports the conclusion that Monsanto did something wrong, i.e. that they either knew glyphosate was more dangerous than they reported, or that they didn't properly instruct the poor farmers on how to use the fertilizers. If they both were transparent about any known ill-effects of glyphosate, did all required tests, and properly instructed customers on how to use this fertilizer, then I feel they can't really be blamed. It is unfortunate, but not every tragedy has a bad guy.

They say their glyphosate is not dangerous and the doctors and scientists say it is. This evidence is of no use to you though, unless you were the Monsanto attorney (because I can hardly picture you as the farmers lawyer ) and they were all going on trial and well, a judge would decide.

As for not instructing the farmers, they are alarmed now and are saying things like "we will make sure we sell the products to certified appliers", so that's the evidence. They didn't know what kind of people were handling their products, so that negligence is entirely on them, not the poor farmers who don't know better and can't do any other job.

[Lio]

I'm on holiday, so I haven't kept up, but Jesus!!! Bill Bryson is obviously hilarious and Monsanto are evil money grabbing killers.

That was all 

[killuridols]

4 hours ago, soon said:

Haha, a well stated answer to that! 

If not family, he probably lifted it from there, lol. He doesnt have too much original thoughts on these matters it seems! Apparently he's a descent psychologist who good peeps on this board have benefited from so I am happy for my buddies, but as a political voice he's in way over his head. He really likes to talk about an alleged conspiratorial element who blend post modernism and marxism with the goal of chopping everyones penis off (Im not even kidding!). Main issue is that when he talks about either marxism and postmodernism his ignorance of these subjects is impossible to miss. 

If only an Argentine Delegation could come shut him down! We are loosing the culture war so far, shamefully. Need some of that extra oomph y'all have! You can even wear your flags while you do it 

Bolded: Huh? Envy of the penis, perhaps??
But that wasn't Karl, it was Sigmund!

LOL, an Argentine Delegation to shut him down? you don't want that, really... Maybe those Argie guys who were trading Pogo for money in Russia, during the World Cup?

4 hours ago, soon said:

Thanks for writing out the lyrics for me . And I really appreciate the notes giving me insight into the rich history that informs the song.

What a cool track! I like the blending of regional horn sounds into rock! Powerful lyrics! Whats going on with "two fingers of forehead.." part? He says they have a big head, but then he's saying he wants a big head? Or is this a literal comment on small foreheads? (I think I get it, but Im curious to know for sure, lol)

That seems like a big concert. Are they like the Rage Against The Machine - the one token revolutionary band that tops the charts - or are many bands with antiestablishment tones able to capture large audiences? I figure you have more bands like this one?

That's authentic Argentine rock, I guess... that mix with horns, saxophones, harmonica....

Oh the "two fingers of forehead" is an expression we have in Spanish to refer to a person who lacks intelligence, also to refer to someone without common sense. As far as I know, the expression comes from some old beliefs about the size of the skull of Neardenthals (sp?), like individuals with a short forehead were less intelligent than those with a larger forehead and the two fingers was the mininum size you could have to be considered intelligent. If your forehead was below that size, then person was dumb. LOL.... sounds pretty much like pseudoscience, but the expression stuck with the language.

Each line in the verses of the song refer sarcastically to either a politician or a situation involving the local politics. The verse about "not precisely trafficking ideas" refers to the rumors about a former governor of the Buenos Aires province of being involved with drug trafficking. He happens to have a huge head and because of that he's got a nickname which refers to this physical characteristic. I should have translated that better, hehe... the correct way would be "those who think they are smarter for having a big head, they are not precisely trafficking ideas" and in the next line he makes use of the old expression "I rather have more than two fingers of forehead" because that "makes me aware of the big fish behind the curtain"......... I think he is playing with the expression and meaning of it......you have one guy with a huge head, of whom it could be assumed he is a smart person, but he's not acting smart at all, he is a governor suspected of allowing drug trafficking.......... and on the other hand, you have a citizen who says he rather have more than two fingers of forehead than a big head, because smart people cannot be fooled about what's going on (he is aware there's a big fish involved in this problem).

No, they are not like RATM. Most Argentine big rock bands go that route of anti-establishment lyrics, even though rock has been in a visible decline in the last decade. I consider "Las Pastillas...." one of the most popular current rock bands in Argentina but they don't play stadiums because, like I said, rock doesn't attract big audiences anymore, unless it is an international act like The Rolling Stones, Pearl Jam or Guns N' Roses, or if it's one of the oldest local bands, which there are not that many left, unfortunately. Nevertheless, "Las Pastillas...." played their biggest show in 2016, for an audience of 25K, at the Ferro stadium (same venue where nuGn'R and Duff played in 2014).

"Las Pastillas..." was formed in 2002 and they were first popular on the Internet before they made it big. So you can consider them relatively "new" if you start counting popular acclaim since the release of their 5th studio album in 2011, which contains their biggest hit "Ojos de dragón" (Dragon Eyes) and this one song I translated "Gobiernos Procaces". In 2015, they released their 8th (and most recent) studio album, with the promotional single "Ella dice..." (She says...)

It's such a beautiful song.......

And this is one of my favorites because it's energetic, people can jump, sing along and there's harmonica and saxo

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by killuridols

[Len Cnut]

24 minutes ago, Lio said:

I'm on holiday, so I haven't kept up, but Jesus!!! Bill Bryson is obviously hilarious and Monsanto are evil money grabbing killers.

That was all 

Also, Graeme, and perhaps all men of Scotland, are sex pests.

[DieselDaisy]

His books are basically the most un-boring things ever, being hysterical (laugh out loud hysterical), informative and inquisitive. 

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Oldest Goat said:

BORING I SAID!

Well it's your loss if you are never going to read one. 

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Oldest Goat said:

I'm too preoccupied I've got to prioritize.

Paradise Lost  >>>>>>>>>>> Some boring guy talking about Australia of all things 

He only wrote one book on Australia as I recall. The chap has 21 books out! 

[killuridols]

They barely give us British readings in the Social Sciences Unis of here 

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, Oldest Goat said:

Have you read Paradise Lost?

I've studied Paradise Lost.

[DieselDaisy]

8 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

It seems brilliant but I keep putting it off.

You'd like it. It is anti-Catholic (although it is a Protestant-Christian work) and anti-monarchical - Milton was a publicist for the Commonwealth.

PS

It was included in the infamous Papal Index (of proscribed books and authors).

Edited August 25, 2018 by DieselDaisy

[wasted]

Something about Madonna’s Like a Prayer video. 

[killuridols]

55 minutes ago, wasted said:

Something about Madonna’s Like a Prayer video. 

Is that where she is seducing a "Saint" ?