SoulMonster Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 hour ago, UsedYourIllusion said: Depends on your style, some people would probably take You Could Be Mine over those tracks if they don't like Ballads. Oh sorry, we were talking about lyrics. I believe Axl wrote the lyrics to YCBM. But I have to agree with you, I also generally prefer rockers over ballads. As for Izzy's penmanship, I find his lyrics rather simple, without any depth, and almost childishly naive. Not that that is necessarily bad in itself, it takes a really good writer to make simplistic lyrics good. For most part I just don't think Izzy succeeds (or even tries), and it comes off as something just about anyone could put together. My favorite is probably Dust n Bones which at least tries to express a nice sentiment. Axl can be a great lyricist. Of course this comes down to personal preference, but the span of topics, often reflective, expressed in depth with plenty of pictures and allegories, with references to art and culture, makes for a much more interesting read, in my humble opinion. Take Catcher In The Rye as an example. The lyrics might not always be easily accessible, but at least he tries and he has ambitions. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Politania Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I like Izzy's solo projects, but sometimes it's difficult to me to understand him when he sings. Sometimes he sings very vaguely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azifwekare Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I love sappy lyrics like Think About You and SCOM. The lyrics were always my favourite part of SCOM. I guess I'm just a big softie at heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 7 hours ago, Graeme said: For me, yeah. I'm not attempting to conduct an objective analysis of the relative merits of the various versions of this band that have existed over the years for the biggest number of people. I'm expressing a personal preference. That was the band that existed when I got into Guns N' Roses, I was 15-16 years old then. Music is still really important to me, but it seemed to matter in a different way back at that age - when you're a teenager I think you latch on much more to the music you listen to and the people who make it. So, I got into Guns (through the earlier line-ups' records), I started posting on this forum, I got really invested in the CD saga, all the news and intrigue...Most importantly, I went to what were (and probably still are) the best live shows I've ever seen. I was blown away by that big beast of a band with three guitars, two keyboards, technical wizards on their instruments showing their stuff, trying to re-imagine something that had been so big (in another form) a decade earlier. I developed a lot of affection for the guys who'd stepped up to play those shows and deliver those performances against a wider world of critics that considered them illegitimate. It seemed really rock n' roll to me to say "fuck you" and do it anyway. I had so much fun as a fan in those days, there were high-quality live shows, a sense of hype and anticipation around the (supposedly) forthcoming album, the leaks, the tour, the camaraderie, the inevitable dysfunction and drama, and the sense that the band had the chops and the willpower was there to make this something great and lasting (before laziness, neglect and more inexplicable forms of dysfunction set in and wasted all that potential). So, for me personally, aye it was the best and anyone who wants to try and belittle that (despite me not passing judgement over what anyone else likes most from the band) can fuck off . I've said before I always liked the possibilities of that line up, the Bucket, Finck, Brain, Tommy, Fortus one, they reminded me of like Parliment Funkadelic, I just wish the music they ended up making had been worthy of their individual talents. They could've made some wild Bill Laswell Bootsy Collins crazy fuckin' music, instead they ended up making a heavily pro-tooled Axl solo album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I have to say but Guns were never my first port of call for lyrics irrespective of whether Rose, Stradlin - or McKagan for that matter - wrote them. I got into Guns for the guitars, the riffs and solos and overall groove. Dylan, Roger Waters, Lennon, Cohen - that was where I went for lyrics. Hetfield's lyrics were a bit pap also but nobody ever listened to Metallica for the lyrics. 1 hour ago, Len Cnut said: I've said before I always liked the possibilities of that line up, the Bucket, Finck, Brain, Tommy, Fortus one, they reminded me of like Parliment Funkadelic, I just wish the music they ended up making had been worthy of their individual talents. They could've made some wild Bill Laswell Bootsy Collins crazy fuckin' music, instead they ended up making a heavily pro-tooled Axl solo album. Well that was my point. 2006 wasn't even the best Nugnr line-up. Surely 2002 with the Bucket and Brain was far more interesting, although it never fulfilled its potential because of ginger bollocks? Bucket is freakishly good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Its odd how rock fans, whoose favourite rock bands generally tend to come off like a bunch of poofs, have this weird issue with sappy yet you look at Motown and Soul, where the music was made generally by quite blokey blokes, Marvin Gaye, Sam Cooke, James Brown, they made incredibly sappy songs but it was never really held against em in the same way it is with rock bands, I wonder why that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allwaystired Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 9 hours ago, Graeme said: It wasn't even intended as an Aguilera cover. It was written by Linda Perry, who's friends with Fortus, and he played it as her song without even knowing that Christina Aguilera had recorded it. I had absolutely no idea that was the case! 9 hours ago, Dean said: I fucking loved that, even better with how randomly out of the blue it was too. Showcased the talents of Finck and 4tus perfectly. Give me that over Wish You Were Here any day of the week! (as a guitar jam, I'm very much aware that Pink Floyd are vastly superior to Aguilera ) Haha- fair enough! I have a memory that BBF used to play it too. Am I remembering things wrong there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Its odd how rock fans, whoose favourite rock bands generally tend to come off like a bunch of poofs, have this weird issue with sappy yet you look at Motown and Soul, where the music was made generally by quite blokey blokes, Marvin Gaye, Sam Cooke, James Brown, they made incredibly sappy songs but it was never really held against em in the same way it is with rock bands, I wonder why that is. I usually only hear the word sappy used in relation to McCartney (at his worst) or 10cc. Using it for Stradlin is clearly nonsensical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 14 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I usually only hear the word sappy used in relation to McCartney (at his worst) or 10cc. Using it for Stradlin is clearly nonsensical. I recall an interview with Axl where something was mentioned regarding SCOM and how it was like a sappy song and he was talking about like how a lot of rock bands these days (meaning in those days) didn't have the nuts to make a song like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXL_N_DIZZY Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 46 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Well that was my point. 2006 wasn't even the best Nugnr line-up. Surely 2002 with the Bucket and Brain was far more interesting, although it never fulfilled its potential because of ginger bollocks? Bucket is freakishly good. I think the upside to ‘06 was Axl was much more locked-in/committed. Bucket n’ Brain added an interesting/mysterious vibe to the band- but everything else about ‘02 was shakier... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 13 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: I recall an interview with Axl where something was mentioned regarding SCOM and how it was like a sappy song and he was talking about like how a lot of rock bands these days (meaning in those days) didn't have the nuts to make a song like that. I don't understand the argument at all. If we are going to consider ''Patience'' sappy, which I am willing to entertain for process of argument, than surely we are regarding just about every love song written sappy also, including ''November Rain'' and 'Sweet Child O' Mine''. Most pop-rock lyrics are innocent 'boy meets girl 'type stuff, with little surrealism/word-play involved: ''Try Me'' (James Brown); ''Love Me Tender'' (Presley); ''This Boy'' (Beatles); ''Tell Me'' (Stones). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I don't have a problem with sappy songs/lyrics, I just think that, like with everything else, there are good ones and bad ones. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Azifwekare said: I love sappy lyrics like Think About You and SCOM. The lyrics were always my favourite part of SCOM. I guess I'm just a big softie at heart. You see, SCOM is sappy too in a way, but I like those lyrics more than Izzy's attempts to write a love song. Axl take us back to his childhood and uses metaphors to paint a picture. I prefer that more than simple lines that leave nothing to the imagination and that uses all the cliché words one would expect to hear in a love song. Again, there's nothing wrong with that either, it's really whatever you prefer. One of my favourite songwriters once said in an interview that he has a rule to never use ''baby'' or ''honey'' in his lyrics, and he has released over a dozen records and plenty of love songs, but none in the cliché way. That's what I prefer too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I don't understand the argument at all. If we are going to consider ''Patience'' sappy, which I am willing to entertain for process of argument, than surely we are regarding just about every love song written sappy also, including ''November Rain'' and 'Sweet Child O' Mine''. What? Love songs have to be sappy? Hallelujah isn't sappy. Anyway, nothing wrong with simplistic/direct lyrics. Unless they are also unimaginative and clumsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, SoulMonster said: What? Love songs have to be sappy? Hallelujah isn't sappy. Anyway, nothing wrong with simplistic/direct lyrics. Unless they are also unimaginative and clumsy. Where did I say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, EvanG said: You see, SCOM is sappy too in a way, but I like those lyrics more than Izzy's attempts to write a love song. Axl take us back to his childhood and uses metaphors to paint a picture. I prefer that more than simple lines that leave nothing to the imagination and that uses all the cliché words one would expect to hear in a love song. Again, there's nothing wrong with that either, it's really whatever you prefer. One of my favourite songwriters once said in an interview that he has a rule to never use ''baby'' or ''honey'' in his lyrics, and he has released over a dozen records and plenty of love songs, but none in the cliché way. That's what I prefer too. Come on man, how is SCOM not cliched, 'she's got eyes of the bluest skies...' and 'her hair reminds me of a warm safe place...'. And this isn't a diss, its actually one of my favourite songs of GnR and Slashes work in it, to me, is one of the best solos ever, full stop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratam Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 8 hours ago, UsedYourIllusion said: Depends on your style, some people would probably take You Could Be Mine over those tracks if they don't like Ballads. I love " You could be mine" very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Where did I say that? "than surely we are regarding just about every love song written sappy also" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, Len Cnut said: Come on man, how is SCOM not cliched, 'she's got eyes of the bluest skies...' and 'her hair reminds me of a warm safe place...'. And this isn't a diss, its actually one of my favourite songs of GnR and Slashes work in it, to me, is one of the best solos ever, full stop. I'm not saying it's the best written lyric of all time, but it's less cliché and sappy than: I said baby you been looking real good Honey you're the time my heart says yes I want to stay together 'til the very end Darling you're the only one Girl, I think about you every day now There is no doubt you're in my heart now We won't fake it, I'll never break it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 If you are going to regard ''Patience'' sappy you'd probably say ''Baby Love'' is sappy also, but both I'd argue are pop masterpieces, demonstrating the requirements of economy and mass appeal. ''Baby Love'' is fairly typical of the earliest pop-rock balladeering which is why I'll quote it here, Quote Baby love, my baby love, I need you oh how I need you But all you do is treat me bad Break my heart and leave me sad Tell me what did I do wrong to make you stay away so long 'Cause baby love, my baby love, been missing ya, miss kissing ya Instead of breaking up Let's start some kissing and making up Don't throw our love away In my arms why don't you stay? Need ya, need ya, baby love, my baby love Baby love, my baby love, why must we separate my love? All of my whole life through I never love no one but you Why you do me like you do, I guess it's me Ooh, need to hold you once again my love, feel your warm embrace my love Don't throw our love away, please don't do me this way Not happy like I used to be, loneliness has got the best of me my love My baby love, I need ya oh how I need ya Why you do me like you do After I've been true to you So deep in love with you Baby, baby ooh 'Til it hurt me, 'til it hurt me Ooh baby love Don't throw our love away Don't throw our love away 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: "than surely we are regarding just about every love song written sappy also" That is rather different from stating that ''Love songs have to be sappy'' haha. NB - the adverbials. Edited March 28, 2019 by DieselDaisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 What is that, a Britney Spears song? Yes, that was sappy. SCOM is on a much higher level. Just now, DieselDaisy said: That is rather different to stating that ''Love songs have to be sappy'' haha. NB - the adverbials. Hence why I asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: SCOM is on a much higher level. I wouldn't say so. It is basically of the same ilk. I have no regrets in stating that the majority of rock-pop songs recorded are basic love lyrics. Isn't this quantifiably proven? I have read things about ''love'' and ''baby'' being the most prevalent words in popular music. Just look at all the bands who relied on love lyrics, all of Motown and Tin Pan Alley, all of Presley's ballads; virtually the entire Beatles corpus until about 1965, including a lot of the uptempo stuff and not just the slow songs (e.g., ''She Loves You''). Most of this is basic ''boy loves girl'' or ''boy meets girl'' or similar. It is the very DNA of popular music! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, EvanG said: I'm not saying it's the best written lyric of all time, but it's less cliché and sappy than: I said baby you been looking real good Honey you're the time my heart says yes I want to stay together 'til the very end Darling you're the only one Girl, I think about you every day now There is no doubt you're in my heart now We won't fake it, I'll never break it I wouldn't say its a far cry from the above mentioned. Its about as atypical as you can get, its in the territory of 'shall I compare thee to a summers day', which is about as typical as you can get. Not from Shakespeare but rather from the fact that he's perhaps the famous playwright/poet in the history and set in place a lot of the conventions in that particular field. Which is not to say he's the creator of the love poem but rather the author of the most well known works. Quote What is that, a Britney Spears song? Yes, that was sappy. SCOM is on a much higher level. You've never heard Baby Love by The Supremes, what fuckin' planet are you from?! Edited March 28, 2019 by Len Cnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratam Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 For me if even " Imagine " isn't love song, but is about the love fot the humanity , is a very sappy song too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.