action Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: It is also ironic because you say, ''I am not interested in the economic'', yet I could equally turn to you and say, ''why are you not interested in jurisprudence and governance?''. The EU, possessing a legislature, executive and court, has long since ceased to be merely an ''economic body'', so it is clear any assessment on the merits of staying or otherwise has to be multi-faceted in its approach and not merely dominated by one area of the economic! Thus far I am the only one who has employed a multi-faceted approach. high level criminals are released every day, because of procedural mistakes, that only exists because europe forced them onto member states. See the "salduz" jurisprudence, granting criminals an immense amount of rights during investigation, which if not met lead to the release of the criminal. europe is actively making our countries less safe. they favor the criminal (through article 6 of the european treaty on human rights), rather than the victim. when a sex offender has to be released for some strange reason; you can thank europe for that. Edited December 28, 2019 by action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, action said: thanks for the insights. that was an interesting read. just one thing, carbon emissions were much higher during the industrial revolution, when coal was burned on a large scale. you'd expect that spike to happen way before the 1950s, but it doesnt. I find that peculiar, since I was going along with your line of thought up until then. All I know, is that I don't know anything for sure, but we're screwed anyway I don't think that's true to be honest. Coal may have been the prime contributor at that time but its use didn't decline until later and other fossil fuels also need to be taken into consideration. One thing to bear in mind is that the population of the earth was only 2.5 billion in 1950. It's 7.7 billion now so think about the requirements for power, travel etc etc to sustain the additional population. We still burn coal, gas etc etc. Air travel, cars and all that is massively greater than it was 70 years ago too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said: They use the industrial revolution just to blame Britain, seeing as we are guilt of everything these days, from killing off all the Dinosaurs to the second gunman on the grassy knoll. You can probably add ''Britain'' to that list which includes ''men'', ''white people'', ''feminine women'' and ''straight people'' as bête noire for these bleak politically correct times. You're serious tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Just now, Dazey said: I don't think that's true to be honest. Coal may have been the prime contributor at that time but its use didn't decline until later and other fossil fuels also need to be taken into consideration. One thing to bear in mind is that the population of the earth was only 2.5 billion in 1950. It's 7.7 billion now so think about the requirements for power, travel etc etc to sustain the additional population. We still burn coal, gas etc etc. Air travel, cars and all that is massively greater than it was 70 years ago too. ... but aren't you saying now, that the biggest problem isn't the use of fossil fuels per se, but rather the exponential increase of the world population? It's certainly the consequence of your reasoning. you are right though. the world is overpopulated. that's the elephant in the room, that nobody wants to see. nothing greta, me or you can do anything about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, action said: I'm just curious, did the guardian release a climate catern in their weekend edition, by chance, or did you come up with that long ass post earlier, all by yourself? I referenced if from https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/news/7074.html https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/CarbonCycle/page4.php https://e360.yale.edu/features/methane_riddle_what_is_causing_the_rise_in_emissions https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/history.html Among other sources so no Guardian involved unfortunately. I'm also a Chemical Engineer working in industry so as part of my job I have to be aware of environmental regulations wrt carbon emissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, action said: ... but aren't you saying now, that the biggest problem isn't the use of fossil fuels per se, but rather the exponential increase of the world population? It's certainly the consequence of your reasoning. you are right though. the world is overpopulated. that's the elephant in the room, that nobody wants to see. nothing greta, me or you can do anything about it. I think the two are inextricably linked but that only backs up the argument that current climate change is due to human activity. Increased population leads to increased consumption of resources by definition QED. As for the solution I'm not even getting into that argument because I'm as fucked as the next guy on that one. Edited December 28, 2019 by Dazey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) I used to have a chemistry set. I made some blue ice stuff by putting some blue liquid in the cupboard with the central heating. Edited December 28, 2019 by DieselDaisy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dazey said: I referenced if from https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/news/7074.html https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/CarbonCycle/page4.php https://e360.yale.edu/features/methane_riddle_what_is_causing_the_rise_in_emissions https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/history.html Among other sources so no Guardian involved unfortunately. I'm also a Chemical Engineer working in industry so as part of my job I have to be aware of environmental regulations wrt carbon emissions. ok. is there a graph for the increase of methane production emanating from humans (farts and other), correlated to the increase of the world population, that are emitted every day, over the course of the past centuries? seeing how methane is far more harmfull than CO2, I think we need to look at this aspect too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 Sytem change: - Stimulating Green tech - Regulating industry - Nationalizing green energy production - Stimulating consumer choices that are green - Green infrastructure - Consumers being proactive and having the tools to do so - Jail time for major polluters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 1 minute ago, action said: ok. is there a graph for the increase of methane production emanating from humans (farts and other), correlated to the increase of the world population, that are emitted every day, over the course of the past centuries? seeing how methane is far more harmfull than CO2, I think we need to look at this aspect too. Given that agriculture is a massive contributor I'm sure you can correlate increased cow farts etc fairly easily. Obviously an increase in the Earth's population and consequently an increase in people on earth eating meat will lead to an increase in Methane emissions. When you couple that with the fact that we clear vast swathes of CO2 consuming rain forest for livestock you end up with something of a double whammy. I honestly don't think that we're a million miles apart on this to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 22 minutes ago, action said: ok. is there a graph for the increase of methane production emanating from humans (farts and other), correlated to the increase of the world population, that are emitted every day, over the course of the past centuries? seeing how methane is far more harmfull than CO2, I think we need to look at this aspect too. This is a pretty good read on the contribution of Methane to climate change. https://foodsource.org.uk/building-blocks/agricultural-methane-and-its-role-greenhouse-gas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 36 minutes ago, action said: when a sex offender has to be released for some strange reason; you can thank europe for that. Whereas you guys just elect them to the White House. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) Making a living wage a reality would allow more people to afford local fresh food. Rather then processed food, which travels an ungodly distance from farm to table and uses additional energy and chemicals to process. They often use sugar, which travels a great distance, and salt which is mined at an industrial scale. Then, often, the processed foods need freezing/refreidgeration in transit, in store and at home. Not to mention that buying local produce can produce zero packaging waste! A living wage - That alone would be a huge stat to greening our food systems! And then subsidize the production and purchase of solar ovens to cook up that yummy local deliciousness! Edited December 28, 2019 by soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Meatloaf is a climate denier and a Greta bully. Personally Id hate to be associated with Meatloaf so Im glad to be on the right side of history. Meatloaf first went on a bizarre rant about being a "sex god" before denying science and calling Greta "brainwashed" "Meat Loaf's quote comes at the end of a story in which he boasts of his success with women. He said that he had his first threesome while still in high school and that, despite having been, as he puts it, "a fat m-f," he's a "sex god" who's never had problems meeting beautiful women because his approach was different. "These days men don't open the doors," he said, "they don't do anything right. Truthfully, all they go out for is to get laid. I've never done that. It's not my first option; never has been - and that's why I've gone out with all these good looking women."" https://ultimateclassicrock.com/meat-loaf-greta-thunberg/ But then Baz and Lizzy Hale stepped in... "Sebastian Bach has risen to Greta Thunberg's defense after Meat Loaf said the climate-change activist was brainwashed. The 17-year-old also responded to the comments. The former Skid Row singer saw Meat Loaf's comments in a tweet from Lzzy Hale of Halestorm. He retweeting Hale's link and noted that "obviously anybody who thinks climate change isn't real is the one who is brainwashed." (...) Thunberg responded to the "Paradise by the Dashboard Light" singer's comments when she retweeted a story about the need to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions. "It’s not about Meatloaf," she said. "It’s not about me. It’s not about what some people call me. It’s not about left or right. It’s all about scientific facts. And that we’re not aware of the situation. Unless we start to focus everything on this, our targets will soon be out of reach."" https://ultimateclassicrock.com/sebastian-bach-greta-thunberg-meat-loaf/ So, climate deniers aren't as smart as Baz. Its a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 28/12/2019 at 3:36 PM, Dazey said: 100% truth. One of my ancestors chopped that fucker to bits on the steps of Canterbury Cathedral. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_de_Tracy Gawd bless old Uncle Bill and all who sailed in him. He ended up either in Al Aqsa or off the coast of Weston Super Mare There's a study in contrast for ya! You should go on a little pilgrammige y'know, few Stellas and that, pay respect to Uncle Tracey off the coast of Weston Super Mare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spunko12345 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Would it be possible to build moats around all the Australian town's to stop these fires spreading? Or do something like concrete over strategic areas in the out back or some other non flammable material to control the spread. I don't mean destroying the out back but something like a grid (like a motorway or canal network) of some non flammable material that would close off the fires and stop them spreading across the country. Actually if it could be a canal network even better as more environmentally friendly but I realise keeping it topped up with water all year would be difficult in Australia. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 25 minutes ago, spunko12345 said: Would it be possible to build moats around all the Australian town's to stop these fires spreading? Or do something like concrete over strategic areas in the out back or some other non flammable material to control the spread. I don't mean destroying the out back but something like a grid (like a motorway or canal network) of some non flammable material that would close off the fires and stop them spreading across the country. Actually if it could be a canal network even better as more environmentally friendly but I realise keeping it topped up with water all year would be difficult in Australia. I like your thinking. Theres gotta be more that can be done. I wonder how far fire can reach across a moat, with the right wind? So as long as its wider than that and deep enough that the water doesnt all evaporate from the heat, seems like something worth exploring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 20 hours ago, soon said: Meatloaf is a climate denier and a Greta bully. Personally Id hate to be associated with Meatloaf so Im glad to be on the right side of history. Meatloaf first went on a bizarre rant about being a "sex god" before denying science and calling Greta "brainwashed" "Meat Loaf's quote comes at the end of a story in which he boasts of his success with women. He said that he had his first threesome while still in high school and that, despite having been, as he puts it, "a fat m-f," he's a "sex god" who's never had problems meeting beautiful women because his approach was different. "These days men don't open the doors," he said, "they don't do anything right. Truthfully, all they go out for is to get laid. I've never done that. It's not my first option; never has been - and that's why I've gone out with all these good looking women."" https://ultimateclassicrock.com/meat-loaf-greta-thunberg/ But then Baz and Lizzy Hale stepped in... "Sebastian Bach has risen to Greta Thunberg's defense after Meat Loaf said the climate-change activist was brainwashed. The 17-year-old also responded to the comments. The former Skid Row singer saw Meat Loaf's comments in a tweet from Lzzy Hale of Halestorm. He retweeting Hale's link and noted that "obviously anybody who thinks climate change isn't real is the one who is brainwashed." (...) Thunberg responded to the "Paradise by the Dashboard Light" singer's comments when she retweeted a story about the need to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions. "It’s not about Meatloaf," she said. "It’s not about me. It’s not about what some people call me. It’s not about left or right. It’s all about scientific facts. And that we’re not aware of the situation. Unless we start to focus everything on this, our targets will soon be out of reach."" https://ultimateclassicrock.com/sebastian-bach-greta-thunberg-meat-loaf/ So, climate deniers aren't as smart as Baz. Its a fact. it's really come to something when you've become so irrelevant and unnoticed, that you need to score easy points assuming the role of greta supporter. why would a rock artist want to be involved with the climate movement anyway? rock is about sex, drugs and partying. the climate is for nerds. if I acted like that at school back in the 90s, I would have been kicked by the cool dudes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, action said: why would a rock artist want to be involved with the climate movement anyway? Why not? Quote rock is about sex, drugs and partying It's not. Quote the climate is for nerds I hope you're kidding... Edited January 7, 2020 by EvanG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Quote rock is about sex, drugs and partying Quote It's not. It sort of is y'know. 15 hours ago, spunko12345 said: Would it be possible to build moats around all the Australian town's to stop these fires spreading? Or do something like concrete over strategic areas in the out back or some other non flammable material to control the spread. I don't mean destroying the out back but something like a grid (like a motorway or canal network) of some non flammable material that would close off the fires and stop them spreading across the country. Actually if it could be a canal network even better as more environmentally friendly but I realise keeping it topped up with water all year would be difficult in Australia. So uh...fill the desert with water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, Len Cnut said: It sort of is y'know. There are songs about it, sure, just like in any other music genre, but to say that rock is about sex, drugs and partying doesn't make a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, EvanG said: There are songs about it, sure, just like in any other music genre, but to say that rock is about sex, drugs and partying doesn't make a lot of sense. no one said it makes sense. rock isn't about making sense, rock is about having fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, action said: no one said it makes sense. rock isn't about making sense, rock is about having fun Rock is a music genre and it can be about anything you want. To narrow it down to sex and drugs is ignorant. Most rock bands I listen to hardly write about any of those topics and don't live the cliché lifestyle that you apparently associate with the ''rockstar lifestyle'' either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 I can't help it, but the whole climate thing is such a fucking bore. these marches, tweets, lectures, ... all of it. all talk, no action. as the song sort of says "with your bitch slap rappin and your cocaine tongue, you get nothing done" forests are burning, seas are rising, the pole caps are melthing, and nothing a hundred gretas can do about it. it is all in vain, all of it. is that a good thing? of course not. it is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2019 will be perpetually known as the Year of the Great Climate Mania. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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