The burying of the early years...

[DurhamGirl]

I have just been reading some old posts and came across thread which mentioned Axl wanting to bury the early years.   Do you think he still feels like this and if so why?  If he does feel this way I feel rather sad as this was such an important period also it may mean he will never release anything from this time.

[Bansidhe]

Quite natural for an artist to not be fond of their early work.

For punters we might love the energy in it but for the people who created it, they'll hear all the imperfections and it may also stir memories they'd rather forget.

[Blackstar]

He didn't say he wanted to bury the early years. He said in 1989 that he wanted "to bury Appetite," meaning that he wanted to record more albums that would be successful so that he wouldn't have to be defined by that one record.

[Tom2112]

2 hours ago, DurhamGirl said:

I have just been reading some old posts and came across thread which mentioned Axl wanting to bury the early years.   Do you think he still feels like this and if so why?  If he does feel this way I feel rather sad as this was such an important period also it may mean he will never release anything from this time.

That comment was taken out of context. He just didn't want to only be known for Appetite. He was always and remains proud of AFD. I don't think he is as fond of UYI because of some of the drum performances and choices of mix that they went with though

[Gordon Comstock]

12 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

That comment was taken out of context. He just didn't want to only be known for Appetite. He was always and remains proud of AFD. I don't think he is as fond of UYI because of some of the drum performances and choices of mix that they went with though

 

I think the only time I've heard him criticize the drums was when talking about AFD - and he was talking about the "80s drum sound", not Steven's playing. He might've said something similar about UYI, though. @Blackstar?

I also thought he was proud of the UYI records but didn't look back on that era as fondly because of all the personal shit that was going on.

But yea, when he said he wanted to "bury Appetite", he was saying he wanted to be known for more than that... and he accomplished that with November Rain.

[Blackstar]

2 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

I think the only time I've heard him criticize the drums was when talking about AFD - and he was talking about the "80s drum sound", not Steven's playing. He might've said something similar about UYI, though. @Blackstar?

I also thought he was proud of the UYI records but didn't look back on that era as fondly because of all the personal shit that was going on.

But yea, when he said he wanted to "bury Appetite", he was saying he wanted to be known for more than that... and he accomplished that with November Rain.

Yes, he said that the drums on AFD were "dated" - I agree though that the criticism wasn't directed at Steven. He did mainly criticize the drumming on UYI in that same interview:

Axl: With 'Appetite,' for me the parts, playing, etc., timing flaws, whatever, are perfect, and as a moment in time for me, the whole record is. That said, the sound of the drums, which at the time in our niche of the woods was a bit of a bold statement and a somewhat successful effort to change things from the current flow at the time, and so may have been necessary but for me sound the most dated of anything there sound-wise.

With 'Illusions' several years ago, something came on the radio and I realized how the energy in the drums, though solid and consistent, brought me down in a way I feel damaged the material in the long run, if not from the get-go. Maybe it's there with some, most or all of us in ways, but I specifically notice it more with the drums. And when listening in that sense of analyzing how something feels to me in regards to its involvement or inclusion in the song, whether anyone disagrees I'm somewhat capable of removing myself and events from the picture.

https://www.a-4-d.com/t6-2009-02-27-axl-rose-interview-with-spinner-magazine

He was generally very bitter in that interview, though

[31illusions]

35 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Axl: With 'Appetite,' for me the parts, playing, etc., timing flaws, whatever, are perfect, and as a moment in time for me, the whole record is. That said, the sound of the drums, which at the time in our niche of the woods was a bit of a bold statement and a somewhat successful effort to change things from the current flow at the time, and so may have been necessary but for me sound the most dated of anything there sound-wise.

With 'Illusions' several years ago, something came on the radio and I realized how the energy in the drums, though solid and consistent, brought me down in a way I feel damaged the material in the long run, if not from the get-go. Maybe it's there with some, most or all of us in ways, but I specifically notice it more with the drums. And when listening in that sense of analyzing how something feels to me in regards to its involvement or inclusion in the song, whether anyone disagrees I'm somewhat capable of removing myself and events from the picture.

First I've heard of this. Interesting. Stevens sound is very distinctive, his snare, cowbell and his timing were something I've always admired.

Without Matt the band would have broken up as they couldn't find a suitable replacement. Sure some of his drumming is flat (14 years intro) but some of it is just amazing (Locomotive).

You can't have it both ways Axl.  If anything is dated it's UYI. The Influences, Sound, Genres and Styles are over the place. Not that it's bad, it just has very little cohesion as a whole.

[Tom2112]

21 minutes ago, 31illusions said:

First I've heard of this. Interesting. Stevens sound is very distinctive, his snare, cowbell and his timing were something I've always admired.

Without Matt the band would have broken up as they couldn't find a suitable replacement. Sure some of his drumming is flat (14 years intro) but some of it is just amazing (Locomotive).

You can't have it both ways Axl.  If anything is dated it's UYI. The Influences, Sound, Genres and Styles are over the place. Not that it's bad, it just has very little cohesion as a whole.

I don't think he was suggesting every song had sterile drums, but it's a fair observation that I'd agree with that the drumming sometimes holds back the energy of the song. Can't really blame Matt though, because he was basically in being guided by the guys of what they liked. I imagine they just heard this military tight drummer and fell head over heels. Had they brought Matt on the road for a year and then recorded it would have been a different story altogether.

[itsprettytiedup]

Just ask @recklessroad. The guy didn't even had the opportunity to post something of his own that GN'R lawyers were all around him. We will never see those pro-shots unless GN'R buys them or Axl dies, whatever comes first.

[Tom-Ass]

18 hours ago, 31illusions said:

 If anything is dated it's UYI. The Influences, Sound, Genres and Styles are over the place. Not that it's bad, it just has very little cohesion as a whole.

There are obviously timeless classic on those album but I agree that they have certain elements that haven't aged well.. 

[themadcaplaughs]

Always assumed 

On 12/1/2021 at 7:25 PM, Blackstar said:

Yes, he said that the drums on AFD were "dated" - I agree though that the criticism wasn't directed at Steven. He did mainly criticize the drumming on UYI in that same interview:

Axl: With 'Appetite,' for me the parts, playing, etc., timing flaws, whatever, are perfect, and as a moment in time for me, the whole record is. That said, the sound of the drums, which at the time in our niche of the woods was a bit of a bold statement and a somewhat successful effort to change things from the current flow at the time, and so may have been necessary but for me sound the most dated of anything there sound-wise.

With 'Illusions' several years ago, something came on the radio and I realized how the energy in the drums, though solid and consistent, brought me down in a way I feel damaged the material in the long run, if not from the get-go. Maybe it's there with some, most or all of us in ways, but I specifically notice it more with the drums. And when listening in that sense of analyzing how something feels to me in regards to its involvement or inclusion in the song, whether anyone disagrees I'm somewhat capable of removing myself and events from the picture.

https://www.a-4-d.com/t6-2009-02-27-axl-rose-interview-with-spinner-magazine

He was generally very bitter in that interview, though

To be fair, Axl's next comment after this is "to actually have a drummer that could play at the time, though, was a bit too overwhelming," I always took this to mean that his issues were not with Matt's playing so much as their inability to record/mix the drums properly with such a technically proficient drummer. I actually agree with Axl that the drum sound on the Use Your Illusion albums is atrocious (slightly better in The Spaghetti Incident), and ironically has a more "1980s" drum sound than Appetite for Destruction; the album from the 1980s! 

Before this interview, you'd see the occasional audiophile bring this up, but people were always quick to defend Matt. After this interview, I saw the whole "Matt may not have been a great fit for the band" argument start to increase (still not a widely held belief, but he seems to be held in much less regard than, say, fifteen years ago). I also find his drum sound on the Contraband album to be dated to the early 2000s in an equally noticeable way. It's a shame because he's a monster drummer, but his drums sometimes get the short end of the stick. I did like the sound of his drums on the Snakepit albums, Libertad, and - of all things - that random Izzy song he played on in 2016. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by themadcaplaughs

[Rayno]

This is an interesting part:

The public has no idea what went into Steven's parts and the notion of getting through songs in rehearsal if ever, with no exaggeration, was unfortunately a nightmare that neither I or Izzy could take, and eventually the others as well, though they lasted longer for other reasons.

For some reason I always thought Izzy was the only member who voted against Steven being fired.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Rayno

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, Rayno said:

This is an interesting part:

The public has no idea what went into Steven's parts and the notion of getting through songs in rehearsal if ever, with no exaggeration, was unfortunately a nightmare that neither I or Izzy could take, and eventually the others as well, though they lasted longer for other reasons.

For some reason I always thought Izzy was the only member who voted against Steven being fired.

Yes, I think Axl's recollection may be inaccurate here - probably affected by bias - because it was mainly Slash and Duff who had dealt with Steven's issues at rehearsals, as stated by them and even Steven himself.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Blackstar