Things you want to confess as a Guns N'Roses Fan? 😀

[Karice]

This "Locomotive," is quickly riding off the rails. I need to make a Guns N'Roses confession, QUICK!

I wonder what would have happened if Steven never got fired for being a heavy heroin addict. I wonder what would have happened if Slash, Izzy, and Duff had never quit. I wonder what would have happened if it was ALWAYS Axl, Duff, Izzy, Slash, and Steven as Guns N'Roses. 🤔

[Ratam]

2 hours ago, Avillart said:

 

Is it really so hard for you to read? I said it was another poster, not BluegrassBlues who made this remark. 

 

 

It does not only judge Axl's person and sexuality but also denys women's sexual agency, insinuating that no woman could possibly enter a relationhip with him. Because he's (been) into kinky sex he has to stay single. If that's not condescending and immature I don't know what is. After people on social media heard that I met him last summer I was bombarded with friend requests and messages from women asking me if I could take them with me next time. One of them seriously asked me to teach her to become a groupie (complete misconception of my person). Women my age are still crazy for Axl (or their projection of him) and they really do want to meet him. Unlike the little fangirls nowadays that prefer their bunny ears Axl glam edits and run screaming at the chance to actually meet him. This has nothing to do with my opinions on sexuality. I'm not the one here who gets her knickers in a twist over Axl - or Guns in general - being a sexual person. On the contrary... LOL 

You take too much seriously any comment.... my intention don't was humiliate to Axl. Was "just " an harmless comment of my part. Is a bit exaggerate you take it comment like "dehumanizing".. calm down. Maybe a bit humour sense would be positive.

2 hours ago, Avillart said:

 

Is it really so hard for you to read? I said it was another poster, not BluegrassBlues who made this remark. 

 

 

It does not only judge Axl's person and sexuality but also denys women's sexual agency, insinuating that no woman could possibly enter a relationhip with him. Because he's (been) into kinky sex he has to stay single. If that's not condescending and immature I don't know what is. After people on social media heard that I met him last summer I was bombarded with friend requests and messages from women asking me if I could take them with me next time. One of them seriously asked me to teach her to become a groupie (complete misconception of my person). Women my age are still crazy for Axl (or their projection of him) and they really do want to meet him. Unlike the little fangirls nowadays that prefer their bunny ears Axl glam edits and run screaming at the chance to actually meet him. This has nothing to do with my opinions on sexuality. I'm not the one here who gets her knickers in a twist over Axl - or Guns in general - being a sexual person. On the contrary... LOL 

You take too much seriously any comment.... my intention don't was humiliate to Axl. Was "just " an harmless comment of my part. Is a bit exaggerate you take it comment like "dehumanizing".. calm down. Maybe a bit humour sense would be positive.

[BluegrassBlues]

Shew, I sure have woken up to some fun this morning  thank you to everyone who did try to explain my point of view a little more clearly than I was able to, but it is ok. It is obvious no middle ground is going to be found, even if I am confused on how all this even started. To be clear, I do not care what consenting adults do. My opinion on recording people having sex (possibly without them knowing) is that it is odd, if you don't think it is, that's fine. I made the porn connection because it is a rock band, and unfortunately that goes hand in hand with this genre, and recorded sex to me is porn. If you like it, fire it up and listen/watch it. But you cannot pretend that every woman who is in the porn industry is a consenting, carefree adult wanting to act out fantasies. It is a dark, cruel world full of trafficked victims with actual assaults filmed everyday, no amount of snarky comments or that its "rock and roll" will change that. That is why I do not like it, it has nothing to be with being a prude, but everything to do with how women are treated, and yes they are dehumanized in that world. I do not see how caring how people are treated is me taking away anyone's sexual agency, you should want to be treated well. That has nothing to do with me not being able to handle a sexual story, I just did not fawn over it or find it particularly funny. 

I'm sorry this snowballed like it did, I love this band and I've had to come to peace with several nasty aspects of their history I will never like or explain away for them, they are grown men who can be scrutinized for their actions. That does not take away for me the impact their music has had on my life and will continue to have. I feel bad Karice's fun thread got hijacked by this, so if we could all just leave it be I truly appreciate it. 

Edited January 16 by BluegrassBlues

[Avillart]

2 hours ago, Rovim said:

again making the distinction between you - the real Axl fan/Gn'R fan and other fans who just don't get him like you do. I guess it's hard to be objective when you think you're better than other people.

@Ratam made a guess about why Axl is single. while I do find that unlikely, I don't get worked up about it and there was no malicious intent there, if you know anything about that poster.

honestly, you come off as an obssesed wannabe groupie, even if you're not.  

 

Again, projection. And yes, I am deliberately using the word cause that's exactly what you and also SoulMonster are doing. I've never called myself a fan, you did. I shared my background on another thread. 

Your last line there makes no sense at all LOL especially in connection with your next post. 

2 hours ago, Rovim said:

to be fair, we don't know anything about that poster, and I don't want to be an asshole, but that would explain a lot. Insecure about herself and how she doesn't want to have the groupie label so she gets defensive and judges everyone but herself. it's just speculation, but I agree.

ironic reading her using the word "projecting" multiple times.

 

24 minutes ago, Ratam said:

You take too much seriously any comment.... my intention don't was humiliate to Axl. Was "just " an harmless comment of my part. Is a bit exaggerate you take it comment like "dehumanizing".. calm down. Maybe a bit humour sense would be positive.

 

Ever heard the phrase "I'm only responsible for what I say, not what you read into it" ?

I recommend reading "The Four Agreements". Say what you mean and mean what you say. Simple principle. These were your words, not my (perceived) lack of sense of humour. The context of the discussion around it shows you were not joking. Own it.

[Avillart]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Sorry for not getting the part where you emphasized it wasn't @BluegrassBlues you accused of denying anyone's sexual agency. That being said, my points towards your reactions to her opinions stand. 

As for @Ratam: I don't see how her pondering whether Axl's kinky sex preferences could be part of him being single, is denying women's sexual agency. Regardless of whether such speculation is warranted or not - and whether it makes sense or not - that discussion in itself doesn't deny anyone's sexual agency. It is a fact of life that the number of compatible partners are reduced in proportion to one's extent of deviating behavior. Similarly, someone could ponder whether anyone's deviating diet makes it harder for them to make long-term relationships without that being an attempt to deny anyone their right to have whatever diet they want.

Again, it seems like people bring critical of your sexual opinions/behavior in the past has made you overly sensitive and apt to interpret otherwise neutral comments as criticism of you. 

 

Again, this discussion has nothing to do with my sexual opinions or behaviour but with the things people have said in this thread. No one knows anything about my personal life/sexuality, I don't get how anyone could have criticised me for it and where you get this idea from. 

[SoulMonster]

Just now, Avillart said:

 

Again, this discussion has nothing to do with my sexual opinions or behaviour but with the things people have said in this thread. No one knows anything about my personal life/sexuality, I don't get how anyone could have criticised me for it and where you get this idea from. 

I don't think anyone has criticized you for it in this thread.

I get the idea from your exaggerated and somewhat confusing reaction to what Ratam wrote. Again, her speculating on whether Axl's sexual preferences could be the reason for him not having a long-term relationship doesn't warrant you accusing her of denying "women's sexual agency" and it was certainly not implied in what Ratam wrote that "no woman could possibly enter a relationhip with [Axl]", as you concluded.

[Avillart]

14 minutes ago, BluegrassBlues said:

Shew, I sure have woken up to some fun this morning  thank you to everyone who did try to explain my point of view a little more clearly than I was able to, but it is ok. It is obvious no middle ground is going to be found, even if I am confused on how all this even started. To be clear, I do not care what consenting adults do. My opinion on recording people having sex (possibly without them knowing) is that it is odd, if you don't think it is, that's fine. I made the porn connection because it is a rock band, and unfortunately that goes hand in hand with this genre, and recorded sex to me is porn. If you like it, fire it up and listen/watch it. But you cannot pretend that every woman who is in the porn industry is a consenting, carefree adult wanting to act out fantasies. It is a dark, cruel world full of trafficked victims with actual assaults filmed everyday, no amount of snarky comments or that its "rock and roll" will change that. That is why I do not like it, it has nothing to be with being a prude, but everything to do with how women are treated, and yes they are dehumanized in that world. I do not see how caring how people are treated is me taking away anyone's sexual agency, you should want to be treated well. 

I'm sorry this snowballed like it did, I love this band and I've had to come to peace with several nasty aspects of their history I will never like or explain away for them, they are grown men who can be scrutinized for their actions. That does not take away for me the impact their music has had on my life and will continue to have. I feel bad Karice's fun thread got hijacked by this, so if we could all just leave it be I truly appreciate it. 

 

But that's on you - you asked me for the story and you were the one that brought porn into a harmless situation no one had a problem with - but you. 

Not to derail Karice's thread any further but have you met people from the porn industry? I have friends in it, from producers to "actors" and I did have discussions with some of the women about the very things you mention there. Cause I couldn't imagine that they would want this kind of life. One of them even posted on her FB for everyone to see that she was "born to do it" after she did her first DP shoot. I couldn't believe it and now, about 10 years later, I have to say she's aged faster than most people I know and she lost the youthful vibe she had when we met. But she was still happy with her choice and it is her choice only. Women have power and they also had it back in the day. Like that Sheila Kennedy. Her book doesn't tell the story of a dehumanized victim. She deliberately went out to have sex with "that fucker". Like she did with many others. Her life was all about fame and money. Her own words. It's trendy to blame it all on the patriarchy today and to portray women as victims. Sadly, this makes it hard for real victims to even still be believed as I've witnessed in the Russell Brand investigations.

One question - do you listen to Rocket Queen? 

[BluegrassBlues]

1 hour ago, Karice said:

This "Locomotive," is quickly riding off the rails. I need to make a Guns N'Roses confession, QUICK!

I wonder what would have happened if Steven never got fired for being a heavy heroin addict. I wonder what would have happened if Slash, Izzy, and Duff had never quit. I wonder what would have happened if it was ALWAYS Axl, Duff, Izzy, Slash, and Steven as Guns N'Roses. 🤔

This is something that I think about a lot, and I always come away with the same two opinions. They could have stayed together and put out a catalogue of music like the Rolling Stones, or they would have put out another album or two and still broken up lol, with all the different personalities in this band and the different issues at the time, I really don't see a scenario in which they did not break up 

[Avillart]

6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't think anyone has criticized you for it in this thread.

 

No, you claimed people in my past had. 

 

6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I get the idea from your exaggerated and somewhat confusing reaction to what Ratam wrote. Again, her speculating on whether Axl's sexual preferences could be the reason for him not having a long-term relationship doesn't warrant you accusing her of denying "women's sexual agency" and it was certainly not implied in what Ratam wrote that "no woman could possibly enter a relationhip with [Axl]", as you concluded.

 

That's exactly what her post implied. 

[SoulMonster]

31 minutes ago, Avillart said:

That's exactly what her post implied. 

You would be hard pressed to find anyone who would agree with your interpretation here, and I am certainly and obviously not among them.

Let's for fun replace "kinky sex" with "keto diet", then the original statement from Ratam becomes, "Axl used like some the keto diet too. Maybe is the reason he is still single."

[And on a sidenote, this is an entirely legit opinion to have, too, and although having weird preferences, in diet or sex or whatever, can certainly limit the number of compatible partners in life one can find, it would be wrong to conclude, in my opinion, that the reason for a life-long solitary lifestyle would solely come down to something like a weird diet... or enjoying kinky sex. Fortunately, the human condition is so diverse that one would either likely find someone sharing your minority dietary preferences (or sexual preferences) or one would find someone to live with who didn't - even if this wasn't a perfect match.]

Anyway, your response to this new statement would then be that Ratam was denying women their own dietary agency and that Ratam would suggest that no woman could possibly enter a relationship with Axl due to his keto diet. Do you now see how absurd that interpretation is? By pondering whether Axl's weird diet has affected his ability to sustain relationships you are arguing that this question in itself contains an implicit denial of other people's dietary choices. As if Ratam passed judgment on people that are on a keto diet instead of matter-of-factly opening up for the possibility that Axl's somewhat deviating sexual preference could have limited his possibilities to find a good long-term relationship. 

Regardless, I don't think you need to act affronted here, Ratam did not seek to deny anyone's sexual agency nor suggest that no woman would be in a relationship with him. It was all a misunderstanding on your part, a rather telling one. 

[Ratam]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't think anyone has criticized you for it in this thread.

I get the idea from your exaggerated and somewhat confusing reaction to what Ratam wrote. Again, her speculating on whether Axl's sexual preferences could be the reason for him not having a long-term relationship doesn't warrant you accusing her of denying "women's sexual agency" and it was certainly not implied in what Ratam wrote that "no woman could possibly enter a relationhip with [Axl]", as you concluded.

This, just speculation. I think without speculation it Forun wouldn't exist anymore....

[Avillart]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

You would be hard pressed to find anyone who would agree with your interpretation here, and I am certainly and obviously not among them.

Let's for fun replace "kinky sex" with "keto diet", then the original statement from Ratam becomes, "Axl used like some the keto diet too. Maybe is the reason he is still single."

[And on a sidenote, this is an entirely legit opinion to have, too, and although having weird preferences, in diet or sex or whatever, can certainly limit the number of compatible partners in life one can find, it would be wrong to conclude, in my opinion, that the reason for a life-long solitary lifestyle would solely come down to something like a weird diet... or enjoying kinky sex. Fortunately, the human condition is so diverse that one would either likely find someone sharing your minority dietary preferences (or sexual preferences) or one would find someone to live with who didn't - even if this wasn't a perfect match.]

Anyway, your response to this new statement would then be that Ratam was denying women their own dietary agency and that Ratam would suggest that no woman could possibly enter a relationship with Axl due to his keto diet. Do you now see how absurd that interpretation is? By pondering whether Axl's weird diet has affected his ability to sustain relationships you are arguing that this question in itself contains an implicit denial of other people's dietary choices. As if Ratam passed judgment on people that are on a keto diet instead of matter-of-factly opening up for the possibility that Axl's somewhat deviating sexual preference could have limited his possibilities to find a good long-term relationship. 

Regardless, I don't think you need to act affronted here, Ratam did not seek to deny anyone's sexual agency nor suggest that no woman would be in a relationship with him. It was all a misunderstanding on your part, a rather telling one. 

 

No, let's not. Let's read what Ratam wrote cause those were her words, not what you try and make them out to be now. Again, reading isn't so much your thing, is it. But that's the point of using language - to express what you want to say. Not to write something that then first has to go through SoulMonster's filter and be translated for people to get what someone really means. 

I think neither Ratam nor BluegrassBlues need you to be their mouthpiece, just like I don't need your claims/assumptions over my past and what people may have said about it. You do not know me, or anything about my personal life.

My impression of Ratam was that she seems to be a lovely person and that's why I found it unfortunate that such a cold statement would come from her. I was looking for the emoji or some LOL in her post but there was none, and from the context of the posts by people before and after, it was a serious statement. And I am surely not the only one who understands it the same way. 

There's always time to edit or at least later say, OK, this was a silly thing of me to say, but it didn't happen. Instead, the blame is being shifted on someone else for not having the right "sense of humour". Imagine if everyone did that - say something and then expect the other people to guess what they really mean. It would lead the very purpose of language and conversation ad absurdum. 

Again, say what you mean and mean what you say. Especially after we've had a discussion about Axl's abuse and trauma in which I experienced Ratam and BluegrassBlues as rather empathetic I found it quite disappointing to see that - in Ratam's case - the compassion didn't reach beyond that other thread. 

Also, who tells you (or Ratam) that Axl is single? Who are you to be able to make that assessment? 

Again, The Four Agreements is a great read. It tells you how making assumptions can make your life and that of others unnecessarily complicated. 

Edited January 16 by Avillart

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, Avillart said:

My impression of Ratam was that she seems to be a lovely person and that's why I found it unfortunate that such a cold statement would come from her. I was looking for the emoji or some LOL in her post but there was none, and from the context of the posts by people before and after, it was a serious statement. And I am surely not the only one who understands it the same way. 

There's always time to edit or at least later say, OK, this was a silly thing of me to say, but it didn't happen. Instead, the blame is being shifted on someone else for not having the right "sense of humour". Imagine if everyone did that - say something and then expect the other people to guess what they really mean. It would lead the very purpose of language and conversation ad absurdum. 

There was no humour to be found, I believe, it was a genuine speculation on whether Axl's somewhat deviating sexual preferences could have limited his ability to form long-term relationships. That was exactly what was said and, as Ratam has confirmed, how it should be interpreted. You are the one that interpret it to mean that she wanted to "deny women's sexual agency", that it implies that no woman could form a relationship with Axl, and now you describe that speculation as "cold". Again, for emphasis, you are the one reading between the lines and finding meaning and statements that weren't there nor intended, you are the one failing to react to people as if they "say what they mean and mean what they say" - you are the one making assumptions about Ratam's intended meaning. Maybe time to pick up another self-help book because it doesn't seem "The Four Agreements" is working for you...

[Avillart]

26 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

There was no humour to be found, I believe, it was a genuine speculation on whether Axl's somewhat deviating sexual preferences could have limited his ability to form long-term relationships. That was exactly what was said and, as Ratam has confirmed, how it should be interpreted. You are the one that interpret it to mean that she wanted to "deny women's sexual agency", that it implies that no woman could form a relationship with Axl, and now you describe that speculation as "cold". Again, for emphasis, you are the one reading between the lines and finding meaning and statements that weren't there nor intended, you are the one failing to react to people as if they "say what they mean and mean what they say" - you are the one making assumptions about Ratam's intended meaning. Maybe time to pick up another self-help book because it doesn't seem "The Four Agreements" is working for you...

 

Can't help yourself, can you, Mr Keto Diet LOL

Of course her statement was cold towards Axl and of course she negates women's sexual agenda with her "assessment". 

The Four Agreements has been a great help in the lives of people but one needs to read it, not just type it into Google

But since you're Ratam's mouthpiece, please tell us how she's in the position to know that Axl is single. Can't wait!

[Karice]

I must confess that I find Duff's rat's nest hairdont distracting in the Riverport Concert Riot video. 😬

[Carnal894x]

My confession is I have always been an Axl supporter and still support him as I leaned more towards his direction of the music as as opposed to certain others in the band and or management as it was in my opinion underrated as all hell (NuGnr, CD ect..). That and I relate heavilly on all the bs hes been through. The problem with Axl is he let's things (or did im not sure it's as bad nowadays) get to him and was easily influenced and maybe a bit too hard on himself in regards to his own influence talent and creative drive. 

[BluegrassBlues]

24 minutes ago, Karice said:

I must confess that I find Duff's rat's nest hairdont distracting in the Riverport Concert Riot video. 😬

Less distracting than Axl's feather boa shrug?  

[Scream of the Butterfly]

I'm not 100% Axl is single. There's that video clip where he's heard referring to Beta as his wife.

Either way, it's not far-fetched to speculate that his sexual (mis)conduct and preferences contributed to some of his past relationships failing and that he could be single in part because of that.

[Karice]

1 hour ago, BluegrassBlues said:

Less distracting than Axl's feather boa shrug?  

Axl wore tight white shorts, a black feather boa, and a black Captain cap, a black cross that looked like it was tattooed in his chest on stage and I STILL find myself more distracted by Duff's rat's nest! 🤣

[Stay.Of.Execution]

40 minutes ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

I'm not 100% Axl is single. There's that video clip where he's heard referring to Beta as his wife.

 

That was a joke. He had Sasha and I think she's been on the tours in recent years as well. No idea what their relationship status is

[Scream of the Butterfly]

9 minutes ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

That was a joke. He had Sasha and I think she's been on the tours in recent years as well. No idea what their relationship status is

I didn't get the impression he was joking.

[Kosonen]

I have a gambling problem

[meadsoap]

2 hours ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

That was a joke. He had Sasha and I think she's been on the tours in recent years as well. No idea what their relationship status is

Yeah exactly. Beta is like a mother figure to him,and Beta has said it in every interview in which she's been asked. She's said that he even calls her "Mama"  sometimes.

There's also a video of Axl throwing a punch at paparazzi cameraman because they pushed Beta to the side, and Axl's says something like "He hit our Mom" or whatever 

https://youtu.be/Q6fPH3_SJg0?si=rUQo6aBvI8lEboGc

Edited January 16 by meadsoap

[Karice]

Speaking of Beta and Team Brazil, I must confess rhat I'm confused on why Axl has Team Brazil as his "Family," and wonder why the hell aren't his  ACTUAL Family like Amy and Stuart, his Brother and Sister helping Axl out? 🤨🤔🥴 I must also confess I just found out that Team Brazil has been around since around 1993, I thought Team Brazil started in like 2015! 😳

[BluegrassBlues]

25 minutes ago, Karice said:

Speaking of Beta and Team Brazil, I must confess rhat I'm confused on why Axl has Team Brazil as his "Family," and wonder why the hell aren't his  ACTUAL Family like Amy and Stuart, his Brother and Sister helping Axl out? 🤨🤔🥴 I must also confess I just found out that Team Brazil has been around since around 1993, I thought Team Brazil started in like 2015! 😳

I feel like it is a really complicated situation regarding Team Brazil. Axl still seems to be on good terms with his sister, but she does have her own life I would assume. I could be completely wrong, but I feel like Axl is someone who likes being taken care of. And I don't say that in a mean way, I am sure the years of trauma he has contributes to it. But even back in the 80s, there was always someone around taking care of him. From friends, to the band, girlfriends, and then the "baby-sitters" (a term I don't like) that was hired by their management. Have you read Craig Duswalts book? That was his personal assistant for UYI, he was really respectful but the things he talked about surprised me in regards to just how much Axl likes to be taken care of, bordering on being babied. And again, I don't say that in a mean way. Beta comes across as someone who is very maternal and popped up in his life at one of his lowest points, so I guess she was more than happy to give him what he wanted which was a mother and a family. I know there are a lot of opinions regarding them and I'll keep mine to myself, but they are around because they are his family