Perhaps - August 18. UPDATE IV: A New Hope (Radio Premiere Tomorrow?)

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I see no legitimate reason why people should focus on her nationality when referring to her. "That Brazilian family," "Brazilian grifters," etc. Obviously, her past nationality doesn't matter at all, but equally obvious, to some it does. 

Again, did they? Someone a few posts back called them grifters. They didn’t say Brazilian grifters.

[Slaveleft]

Just now, Blackstar said:

I think you're confusing classism (which is a questionable term referring to discrimination and prejudice based on someone's social class, e.g. prejudice against someone because they're poor) with the general concept of class and class struggle, which means that in every society (except of course, a utopian communist society or "primitive" societies where there was no personal property) there are classes with different interests.

So, the answer to your question is, of course, neither.You could say that it was a manifestation of class struggle in Greek society at the time, but not limited to that.

I see that you are educated, so answer me this:

When two members of a oneracial junta (Greece) tell a communist joke - is that racism?

When two members of multiracial junta(any Latin country) tell a communist joke - is that racism?

[Martin Riggs]

17 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

 

BTW, not so underlining when you have to call her "housekeeper/nanny". 

 

That was literally her job and how she met Axl. Don’t be ridiculous.  🙄 

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

I’m just saying that I don’t believe the criticisms leveled at Beta and Fernando around here, justified or not, are racially motivated.

Is anyone actually saying they are? Seems you just throw out a red herring. 

[timoteo]

2 minutes ago, Its Tino said:

Thread is off the rails 

Completely 

 

When you’ve exhausted all talk of the band musically and are how resorting to talking about their management style woof

 

this is what bad bands do 

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Imagine levying criticism on the managers for Axl's decision to not release music lol seek help whoever you are 

Imagine thinking there’s a difference here seek help whoever you are 

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

Stop. Just stop. 

Come on, how are they grifters? Surely you just don't throw out insults, you back them up. 

[jekylhyde]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t5235-2009-03-02-the-oakland-press-axl-rose-talks-to-gary-graff-about-his-new-album-rumors-and-the-fans

Thanks. That was an interesting read.

This might sound sappy, but after reading that, I wish Axl knows how much people who love Chinese Democracy really love it. It truly is an amazing, one of a kind album.

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

Again, did they? Someone a few posts back called them grifters. They didn’t say Brazilian grifters.

Actually, referring to them by nationality has been pretty prevalent, also here, although I can't give you any recent examples (that's one type of quote I don't collect ). And again, talking not exclusively about this forum but examples of criticism with racist connotation they have experienced which has soured them to the fanbase, for context for we are where we are. 

[Blackstar]

2 minutes ago, Slaveleft said:

I see that you are educated, so answer me this:

When two members of a oneracial junta (Greece) tell a communist joke - is that racism?

When two members of multiracial junta(any Latin country) tell a communist joke - is that racism?

No and no (that's a really strange question). And no, it's not classism either (communism is not a social class, it's an ideology based on the concept of class struggle and advocating for the elimination of class and the inequality it produces).

[Slaveleft]

1 minute ago, Blackstar said:

No and no (that's a really strange question). And no, it's not classism either (communism is not a social class, it's an ideology based on the concept of class struggle and advocating for the elimination of class and the inequality it produces).

Well, call me a racist but now I know why philosophy is a Greek word

[Its Tino]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Actually, referring to them by nationality has been pretty prevalent, also here, although I can't give you any recent examples (that's one type of quote I don't collect ). And again, talking not exclusively about this forum but examples of criticism with racist connotation they have experienced which has soured them to the fanbase, for context for we are where we are. 

I’m not condoning racism obviously, but they call themselves Team Brazil ffs!! Of course people will refer to their nationality. 

[Wabby]

1 hour ago, General2112 said:

When do we think they would release two more tracks after these two get released. I would like state of Grace and atlas but I just can’t see a window for them being released 

What evidence other than the set list do we have that we will get The General next, when the supposed fake Atlas artwork was going around i thought thats more GNR style to give us that instead of the thing we really want

[Voodoochild]

4 minutes ago, Martin Riggs said:

That was literally her job and how she met Axl. Don’t be ridiculous.  🙄 

Do you call Izzy a drug dealer? Is he still a drug dealer?

 

8 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

It's accurate to refer to Beta as a previous nanny. But it is usually used derogatory to imply she is not capable to do the job she does, especially when the same people will never mention or acknowledge that she also worked as an executive assistant for a large company in Brazil and also has many years prior experience working for Axl as a personal assistant where she did varied work, preparing her for taking over as manager. Basically, people refer to her as simply a nanny to belittle her. 

And back to the topic of racism: I see no legitimate reason why people should focus on her nationality when referring to her. "That Brazilian family," "Brazilian grifters," etc. Obviously, her past nationality doesn't matter at all, but equally obvious, to some it does. 

Exactly. The context is all that matters. 

And I don't know why is it so hard to understand that people can still being critic about TB without those same prejudices.

14 minutes ago, timoteo said:

Imagine defending Guns N’ Roses management after this long lol seek help whoever you are 

what a hot and clever take

12 minutes ago, CaioAKR said:

THANK YOU. I too am brazilian and have a similar feel on this topic. Also, I know you from the Perfect Crime forums (was active there as ckspider) and you always had good, level-headed takes.

Of course, everyone can criticize TB for their work, but it often feels as there's something underneath it. Calling them cons and grifters, for example, is totally uncalled for. They're there because Axl wants them to be there and they're certainly not the reason Axl so rarely releases new music. 

Good to see you around man.
 

Yeah, it's not like anyone is defending TB here. It's really about how they criticize them. 

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Its Tino said:

I’m not condoning racism obviously, but they call themselves Team Brazil ffs!! Of course people will refer to their nationality. 

That doesn't make much sense. It makes sense to refer to them as Team Brazil or TB. Besides, focusing on their nationality predates the formation of the business entity Team Brazil. 

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Is anyone actually saying they are? Seems you just throw out a red herring. 

What? Are you arguing in good faith now or are you just being contrarian?

The discussion started because Voodoochild said that he wondered if criticism of Beta and Fernando would be the same if they were an American family. I said I don’t believe there’s a racial component to the criticism of them. They replied “I do because I am Brazilian and I notice the small nudges and heal shots. I remember how people behave when Merck or whoever was in charge. Sure there are lots of criticism still, but it’s different. It feels different.”

I was debating that and you weighed in with your take. That’s not a red herring. It’s quite literally how the conversation started. I understand disagreeing with someone’s viewpoint, but don’t just completely ignore the previous posts in the thread to try and discredit what I’m saying.

[Nintari]

Man... identity politics is the scourge of humanity. Whether you're on the right, the left, or in the middle. It's all being used as a tool to make you agitated and keep you locked into a state of fight so you do the puppeteer's  bidding. And every time you play along (even on little message boards like this), you're accomplishing that goal. 

[Martin Riggs]

That’s about enough of this thread:

 

[Appetitefordiscussion]

2 hours ago, rumandraisin said:

Axl failed to promote it you mean. No one else. Just Axl. To go missing when the album comes out after all those years was the final nail. No video, no interview until Jan 09 and he knew full well that he was making a bold statement in one of those interviews saying Slash is a cancer. That was his idea of promotion. Two interviews then the Asian tour 11 months later. 

It’s a shame, especially after Slash backed him up against leakers before the album dropped. 

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

All I know is if read any posts criticizing Merck Mercuriadis, my Greek ass is rioting.

[Its Tino]

1 minute ago, Martin Riggs said:

That’s about enough of this thread:

 

I agree. I’ll check back again r tomorrow. 

[Voodoochild]

2 minutes ago, Rodela said:

That was not my point. I'm saying that if you think posters are being "too hard" on GNR/TB for fucking up this (you can perform your mental gymnastics and claim that releasing a song through freaking jukebox is genius marketing if you want), you can't be taken serious.

I know you from Animalesko's forum, I was just teasing.

You must be really old 

I don't think I claimed the jukebox leak was a genius marketing move. In fact, I just thought it was really funny. The weekend was very nostalgic to me because of that. 

Then suddenly everything went sour after the band deleted the music on the jukebox app - which should be more than expected. That's what I thought was overly critical and negative.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

What? Are you arguing in good faith now or are you just being contrarian?

The discussion started because Voodoochild said that he wondered if criticism of Beta and Fernando would be the same if they were an American family. I said I don’t believe there’s a racial component to the criticism of them. They replied “I do because I am Brazilian and I notice the small nudges and heal shots. I remember how people behave when Merck or whoever was in charge. Sure there are lots of criticism still, but it’s different. It feels different.”

I was debating that and you weighed in with your take. That’s not a red herring. It’s quite literally how the conversation started. I understand disagreeing with someone’s viewpoint, but don’t just completely ignore the previous posts in the thread to try and discredit what I’m saying.

Hmm? As I understand him, he is saying that some of the criticism has racial connotation, but far from all and not even necessarily here. So when you turn this into someone saying that ALL criticism of TB here is racially motivated, I don't feel that is a fair depiction of what is being said. 

[Voodoochild]

2 minutes ago, Martin Riggs said:

That’s about enough of this thread:

 

Great way to end conversations. Bye

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

Just now, Voodoochild said:

Then suddenly everything went sour after the band deleted the music on the jukebox app - which should be more than expected. That's what I thought was overly critical and negative.

To try and get this thread back on course, the biggest surprise to me out of this whole debacle was how long it took to get the song taken down off of TouchTunes.

I didn’t check the forum at all on Saturday. I was only informed of the leak when I looked at Facebook on Sunday evening and Rolling Stone had written an article about it. I figured I’d missed my chance. I couldn’t *believe* it was still up by Sunday night. I figured it would have been taken down. 

[SoulMonster]

Just now, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

To try and get this thread back on course, the biggest surprise to me out of this whole debacle was how long it took to get the song taken down off of TouchTunes.

I didn’t check the forum at all on Saturday. I was only informed of the leak when I looked at Facebook on Sunday evening and Rolling Stone had written an article about it. I figured I’d missed my chance. I couldn’t *believe* it was still up by Sunday night. I figured it would have been taken down. 

They probably didn't work in the weekend.