Perhaps - August 18. UPDATE IV: A New Hope (Radio Premiere Tomorrow?)

[DSTK]

40 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t5235-2009-03-02-the-oakland-press-axl-rose-talks-to-gary-graff-about-his-new-album-rumors-and-the-fans

Were.

And you think that's gospel ? Axl / GNR are still under a contract at a record company..they're in charge in reality 

[Blackstar]

Just now, DSTK said:

And you think that's gospel ? Axl / GNR are still under a contract at a record company..they're in charge in reality 

What gospel are you talking about? I'm basing it on evidence, namely the fact that the latest releases have been on GN'R's own label with license to Geffen for distribution, and that GN'R appears to own the copyright of the sound recordings.

[The Real McCoy]

I don’t think anyone really cares about Beta and/or Fernando’s ethnicity. We only care about the fact that they’ve constantly been assholes to the fanbase. 

[GnR Chris]

7 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Except it does. First and foremost, Beta was an immigrant. I can't find any background info, but it's very common for people with degree here having to work with low-income jobs in the US. Nonetheless, she would never been seing as "housekeeper/nanny" for the eternity if she wasn't from Latin America. It would be a success case, for her to become a manager after having to restart her life after a divorce.

Bro, come on. It’s not a success case so much as a friendship she struck up with Axl. I am sure he considers them his family now, trusts them, so they manage him. It’s not a classic American success story. It’s nepotism. LOL

Even still, if they didn’t behave so unprofessionally toward fans on social media, then they wouldn’t be disparaged as much. There is a certain level of arrogance to them when discussing anything with us “peasants.”

[Martin Riggs]

8 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Except it does. First and foremost, Beta was an immigrant. I can't find any background info, but it's very common for people with degree here having to work with low-income jobs in the US. Nonetheless, she would never been seing as "housekeeper/nanny" for the eternity if she wasn't from Latin America. It would be a success case, for her to become a manager after having to restart her life after a divorce.

According to you it does. I would disagree. Stephanie Seymour’s nanny could have been Brenda from Biloxi/Birmingham/Baton Rouge or wherethefuckever and her/her family would still have gotten a lot of shit because their rescue singer happened to be Axl Rose. I agree with what you said earlier:

“And like you said, it's all about Axl. He's the one in charge. He's the reason why TB does not work as they should, not the other way around.”

[SoulMonster]

12 minutes ago, The Real McCoy said:

I don’t think anyone really cares about Beta and/or Fernando’s ethnicity. We only care about the fact that they’ve constantly been assholes to the fanbase. 

What? When were they assholes to the entire fanbase? I can't remember a single time I felt insulted by anything they have said. And the "complaints, complaints, complaints" was nothing but accurate (and hilarious). 

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

30 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

I do because I am Brazilian and I notice the small nudges and cheap shots. I remember how people behave when Merck or whoever was in charge. Sure there are lots of criticism still, but it's different. It feels different. 

And like you said, it's all about Axl. He's the one in charge. He's the reason why TB does not work as they should, not the other way around.

I respect your perspective but, respectfully, I think that you’re maybe a bit sensitive on this topic because you too are Brazilian.

I myself am a first generation American, child to Greek immigrants. I get it. But that’s not what’s going on here. It might feel different to you, but Axl and the Guns management team have been laughable since long before Beta was running things.

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

24 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Except it does. First and foremost, Beta was an immigrant. I can't find any background info, but it's very common for people with degree here having to work with low-income jobs in the US. Nonetheless, she would never been seing as "housekeeper/nanny" for the eternity if she wasn't from Latin America. It would be a success case, for her to become a manager after having to restart her life after a divorce.

Except these exact same complaints are common whenever anyone is managed by someone close to them who doesn’t have traditional experience in their line of work.

For a case in point, Lamar Jackson of the NFL team the Baltimore Ravens has no agent. His mother was handling all negotiations for him, and it was messy. As a result, people were knocking him for using his mother as an agent.

Same thing happens whenever someone’s wife or husband is their manager and things don’t go well.

It has nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with the fact that it seems like the manager doesn’t know what they’re doing.

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

I respect your perspective but, respectfully, I think that you’re maybe a bit sensitive on this topic because you too are Brazilian.

Or perceptive. 

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Or perceptive. 

I’ve never detected any racism in the criticisms of Beta and Fernando. Have you?

Or is this a situation where I’m not Brazilian, so I must be wrong because I can’t possibly comprehend?

[AxlSlashthebest]

30 minutes ago, default_ said:

I still think Perhaps is one of the best songs of the leaks/CD era in general and thats why I came back to the forum actually.

State of Grace being my second fav.

Those two songs, in my opinion, are better than some stuff in AFD and UYI.

hardschool and absurd did nothing for me tho.

can u imagine state of grace whith Slash ?  mamannnn

[AxlSlashthebest]

11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

What? When were they assholes to the entire fanbase? I can't remember a single time I felt insulted by anything they have said. And the "complaints, complaints, complaints" was nothing but accurate (and hilarious). 

for me Fernendo's is a bastard. Ome people said (I don't know if it's real) that he was in charche to find girl for Axl.

[General2112]

When do we think they would release two more tracks after these two get released. I would like state of Grace and atlas but I just can’t see a window for them being released 

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

I’ve never detected any racism in the criticisms of Beta and Fernando. Have you?

Or is this a situation where I’m not Brazilian, so I must be wrong because I can’t possibly comprehend?

Yes, I have. Can't give you examples, years ago and different forum, I can't even remember the specifics. Also, of course racism can be an underlying component when it is so pervasive in humans, it would almost be strange if it weren't. Racism, mysoginy, jealousy, etc, but of course mostly legitimate criticism. 

On a related note, one of the funniest aspects of the barrage of criticism and insults hurled at Fernando and Beta is the double standard in that they don't typically get praised for good stuff that happen and where they likely were involved and influenced the outcome (like touring), but they do get critizised for the single one thing where they likely have absolute zero control (music) 

4 minutes ago, AxlSlashthebest said:

for me Fernendo's is a bastard. Ome people said (I don't know if it's real) that he was in charche to find girl for Axl.

He is a bastard because you have heard stories about him hooking Axl up with girls? 

[Martin Riggs]

4 minutes ago, AxlSlashthebest said:

for me Fernendo's is a bastard. Ome people said (I don't know if it's real) that he was in charche to find girl for Axl.

Speaking of Axl’s camp, have we ever figured out why that Andrei Gillot guy is associated with GNR at all? Guy seems like a creep. 

[Blackstar]

17 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

I’ve never detected any racism in the criticisms of Beta and Fernando. Have you?

Or is this a situation where I’m not Brazilian, so I must be wrong because I can’t possibly comprehend?

There have been racist connotations in some of the criticism by a portion of the fanbase (not so much on this forum, at least not currently).

For example, there is a popular gif/meme depicting Beta as a stereotypical immigrant maid from Latin America, but I think that most of the people who find it funny don't even realize the connotations.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Blackstar

[guitarpatch]

1. There are numerous big time artists who have managers that are close family members or friends. There’s a level of trust that needs to be there for success. Every artist has different needs and that determines what they need from management 

2. Axl/GNR has had professional management before. They had the top manager in the business. It didn’t end well. It didn’t solve much of the issues that seem to surround the group, tours, albums, and the relationship with the fanbase as well.

3. Good management takes directive from the artist and knows when to interject as well. Ultimately they are there to carry out a vision. None of us know exactly what that is 

4. Nothing is perfect, but we’ve gotten numerous tours with the band showing up on time, a reunited lineup, new music, live dvd, and fan club releases during their tenure. They haven’t been a roadblock for things to happen. Those things didn’t happen consistently under previous management 

5. Sometimes the criticism of Fernando/Beta crosses the line of role/relationship and goes elsewhere in underlying ways. Not saying it’s anyone in here, but it has at times.
 

6. There are issues between management and this part of the fanbase. Something that they don’t seem the need to try and address anymore. It’s a shame they can’t/won’t engage and nurture this part of the base. It is what it is. Perhaps at this time, they don’t need to 

[©GnrPersia]

4 hours ago, Rodela said:

I guess you are a new GNR fan, lol.

A New GN'R fan here. How can I help you today?

[DSTK]

49 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

What gospel are you talking about? I'm basing it on evidence, namely the fact that the latest releases have been on GN'R's own label with license to Geffen for distribution, and that GN'R appears to own the copyright of the sound recordings.

Can you not remember the label holding back CD just as much as Axl was ? Didn't they reject it with Atlas on or something 

[Slaveleft]

I mean, I really think that is wrong to call (mostly justified)criticism of TB racist, because if in this world exist one great nation that is made of all races on the planet - its Brazil.

So if anyone uses "Latin maid" stereotype - that is classism.

Learn to nuance things a little, stamping a racism tag on everything kinda insults people that really suffered under it (see Congo, South Africa, etc...)

[Blackstar]

1 minute ago, DSTK said:

Can you not remember the label holding back CD just as much as Axl was ? Didn't they reject it with Atlas on or something 

Yes, I remember, that's why I said "were" - meaning that was in the past but not now.

[Its Tino]

1 hour ago, rocknroll41 said:

How do we know that’s Pitman doing the bell?

I’m thinking he was joking

[Seb91]

3 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

I have seen a lot of people use the maid thing and included making fun of the language barrier thing with the Family Guy Consuela lemon pledge reference, I don't think it is out of bounds to say sometimes it can definitely have some racist jokes in there at times

Yeah, there's definitely been some below the belt stuff over the years but generally I've found it fair criticism. I mean, it is a bit bizarre that TB ended up managing one of the biggest bands in the world and at times their lack of experience has been evident. To be fair I imagine managing musicians is often like herding cats anyway.   

[Slaveleft]

2 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

I have seen a lot of people use the maid thing and included making fun of the language barrier thing with the Family Guy Consuela lemon pledge reference, I don't think it is out of bounds to say sometimes it can definitely have some racist jokes in there at times

Again....

When you insult, make fun based on someones skin color or other group physical characteristic - that is racism.

When you insult someones nation - that is chauvinism.

When you insult is based on his place in the society, culture, language skill - that is classism.

You can poke fun of some blonde maid from Brazil that had German ancestors and as long you are sticking to the cultural parameter and not biological - that is not racism.

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

30 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, I have. Can't give you examples, years ago and different forum, I can't even remember the specifics. Also, of course racism can be an underlying component when it is so pervasive in humans, it would almost be strange if it weren't. Racism, mysoginy, jealousy, etc, but of course mostly legitimate criticism. 

Well I can’t speak for what happened years ago on another forum. But I haven’t seen any Brazilian racism here. There was mention of a Latino maid meme, which would obviously be racist. But I haven’t seen that here in the time I’ve been visiting, since 2016 or so.

You’re right - racism is pervasive in the human condition. I’ve noticed a lot of criticism of Slash’s guitar playing lately that I disagree with. But I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s because Slash is half black while Robin Finck is white.

It just seems like the conversation is moving towards “you can’t criticize Beta and Fernando or you are promoting anti-Brazilian sentiment” which is just absolutely ridiculous.

I don’t even really criticize them. Check my post history, I’m the first to point out that they’re just doing what their boss, Axl, tells them to.

But I have to call it like I see it, and it seems like resorting to accusations of racism is just a way for our more optimistic forum members to shut down any criticism of the band and management.

Edited August 15, 2023 by GoodOlJohnnyK