With "The General" seemingly close....

[LlamaRenegade]

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Marco Beltrami worked on The General in 2002. 

When Brain was on the Appetite for Distortion podcast he said The General was one of the songs he made in the lead up to the 2001 Rock in Rio show too

[Blackstar]

Yes, Dizzy was evidently off with the timeline in that quote.

[Tom2112]

Atlas was a bit of a let down, as was HardSkool after hearing the chorus for years.... 

I wasn't aware of most other song titles though. But State of Grace still surprised me, because the rest of the leaks weren't nearly as good .. and yet that was the less finished of the "finished" tracks. Really hope to hear a final version and hope to god (or whoever) that they keep the vibe of it. I think Axl with Bass and drums during the verses is about as badass as that song can sound... But maybe it can be inproved

[Nintari]

14 hours ago, WhazUp said:

I remember "This I Love" was a song hyped up because it was one that Axl mentioned a few times in interviews in the 90s before GNR even broke up, so knowing that was one that was being worked on and it had the strongest ties to the old days was very intriguing to me.

When the news came out of Patti Hood working on the harp part, I was like "harp? This must be epic"

Finally hearing the song when CD in full leaked a couple of weeks before the release date I remember liking it, but underwhelmed because it is hard for a song to match that level of mystery and hype.  But once my expectations were more down to earth I came to love the song for what it is and I still really enjoy it

Song seriously should have been included in the movie What Dreams May Come. It fits perfectly.

[colonizedmind]

I don't really care what we get as long as we get something at this point....but it is slightly bizarro twilight zone esque, that Chinese style musical direction disagreements was one of the big reasons the band broke up and Slash left and here we are 30 years later and Slash is finishing off those same sessions....I mean, ok? Hit me with a hammer!

[RONIN]

Man the Village Leaks are....

Feels like an Emperor's new clothes situation. This is what he had in the vault?? Really? You came up with this crap with the likes of Buckethead, Finck, Stinson, Freese, Brain, Vrenna, etc?? Please tell me there is more to justify 1994-2008 than this. It appears like every half decent track he had was released on the 2008 album. I honestly think even Hard Skool and Absurd are above these leaks which explains why they were the first to be released last year.

"Nothing" may have potential. Eye on you is just average at best and I'm being kind. Atlas (the one with Brian May?) sounds like a generic alt-pop song you'd find on the Reality Bites soundtrack from the mid 90s. Bleh. The rest aren't even worth mentioning. If this is the bulk of what he has left - it makes Axl seem like an artist that has nothing left in the tank. Incredibly uninspired. Was music just a weekend hobby for him during those long wilderness years? That's what this makes me wonder now. I don't see how a "final" version of any of these tracks is going to stand up to what was already on Chinese Democracy even with Slash and Duff. The material just isn't there imho. Bring on the Moby and Youth era leaks I guess -that's the final frontier of this era...

There was another version of Oh My God that I heard and somehow they managed to strip the soul away from that one as well. All of the tracks seem exactly as Bob Ezrin described, like they've been painted over one too many times. Probably an audiophile's wet dream if you have good headphones and can pick apart each layer in the songs.

[rumandraisin]

With Perhaps coming up via jukeboxes in bars, The General will exclusively only be heard in supermarkets. 

Actually if that was the case I know someone would linger long enough in Aldi until they capture a cell phone style recording of it!

[megaguns1982]

On 8/12/2023 at 6:01 PM, TheGeneral said:

I'm of the exact opposite opinion. I think State of Grace is the worst song from the leaks, the vocals are awful and just lumbering along. Atlas on the other hand sounds really good.

Although Atlas, like Street of Dreams, is missing that certain hook. Those songs are bulding up to something and then it just falls flat.

I always thought the same about atlas, I actually just checked that I wasn’t quoting myself lol.

it starts so well and falls flat, hopefully it’ll get the slash treatment prior to release, it has a lot of potential.

[Seb91]

On 8/13/2023 at 6:23 AM, RONIN said:

Man the Village Leaks are....

Feels like an Emperor's new clothes situation. This is what he had in the vault?? Really? You came up with this crap with the likes of Buckethead, Finck, Stinson, Freese, Brain, Vrenna, etc?? Please tell me there is more to justify 1994-2008 than this. It appears like every half decent track he had was released on the 2008 album. I honestly think even Hard Skool and Absurd are above these leaks which explains why they were the first to be released last year.

"Nothing" may have potential. Eye on you is just average at best and I'm being kind. Atlas (the one with Brian May?) sounds like a generic alt-pop song you'd find on the Reality Bites soundtrack from the mid 90s. Bleh. The rest aren't even worth mentioning. If this is the bulk of what he has left - it makes Axl seem like an artist that has nothing left in the tank. Incredibly uninspired. Was music just a weekend hobby for him during those long wilderness years? That's what this makes me wonder now. I don't see how a "final" version of any of these tracks is going to stand up to what was already on Chinese Democracy even with Slash and Duff. The material just isn't there imho. Bring on the Moby and Youth era leaks I guess -that's the final frontier of this era...

There was another version of Oh My God that I heard and somehow they managed to strip the soul away from that one as well. All of the tracks seem exactly as Bob Ezrin described, like they've been painted over one too many times. Probably an audiophile's wet dream if you have good headphones and can pick apart each layer in the songs.

This mirrors my thoughts pretty much. I feel the bottom line is that Chinese could have been a double album with some filler if the songs released in 2008 were spread over two albums. However, with what's left it'd be a weak follow up. I think Atlas was the biggest surprise to me in that I saw why it was left off as it's similar to Catcher and Street of Dreams and Perhaps has a similar vibe as well. I guess it shows why Axl wasn't too keen to release a follow up and I feel he knew he needed some more songs. I've always wondered if DJ was hired more for his writing than his guitar playing - he'd co-written SOLA and The Heroin Diaries with Nikki Sixx and the latter had some radio singles. 

Here's a track listing for a hypothetical double album release I came up with via trial and error as I wanted to have a more complete Chinese era playlist: (Obviously no General though):

Chinese 1: More Industrial/Experimental

1. Chinese 2. Riad 3. Scraped 4. Absurd 5. Shackler's 6. Ten Percenter 7. Eye on You 8. State of Grace 9. Madagascar 10. Me & My Elvis 11. Sorry 12. If the World

Chinese 2: More Traditional

1. Hard Skool 2. Oklahoma 3. IRS 4. Catcher 5. SoD 6. TiL 7. Atlas 8. Perhaps 9. Prostitute 10. Going Down 11. Better 12. There Was a Time 

The thing is, had something come out along those lines I feel that the music press wouldn't have been kind to the record(s). There's a lot of padding and things like Absurd, Eye on You and State of Grace would have been received poorly. There's also the issue of a lot of the ballads sounding similar. Having said that, I'd have loved that had that come out in 2008. As a kid I was disappointed that I'd heard most of the album already and was at least expecting a double album. Whilst there's more filler, it would have seemed more in keeping with the amount of music I was expecting. Plus, the band could have incorporated more of their 'own' stuff into the set as it were. I mean, Tommy's solo spot could have been a GN'R song! The problem with releasing all the best stuff at once was that there wasn't really anywhere for the rest to go without some more writing. That being said, I find it funny that the band are just putting out singles now and again now as that was a trend way back in the late 00s/early 2010s. The Smashing Pumpkins were putting out individual songs as and when in the Teargarden era so it would have actually worked better as an approach back then I feel and would have gotten around the fact that there wasn't enough stuff for a cohesive album. 

[Tom2112]

On 8/13/2023 at 6:23 AM, RONIN said:

Man the Village Leaks are....

Feels like an Emperor's new clothes situation. This is what he had in the vault?? Really? You came up with this crap with the likes of Buckethead, Finck, Stinson, Freese, Brain, Vrenna, etc?? Please tell me there is more to justify 1994-2008 than this. It appears like every half decent track he had was released on the 2008 album. I honestly think even Hard Skool and Absurd are above these leaks which explains why they were the first to be released last year.

"Nothing" may have potential. Eye on you is just average at best and I'm being kind. Atlas (the one with Brian May?) sounds like a generic alt-pop song you'd find on the Reality Bites soundtrack from the mid 90s. Bleh. The rest aren't even worth mentioning. If this is the bulk of what he has left - it makes Axl seem like an artist that has nothing left in the tank. Incredibly uninspired. Was music just a weekend hobby for him during those long wilderness years? That's what this makes me wonder now. I don't see how a "final" version of any of these tracks is going to stand up to what was already on Chinese Democracy even with Slash and Duff. The material just isn't there imho. Bring on the Moby and Youth era leaks I guess -that's the final frontier of this era...

There was another version of Oh My God that I heard and somehow they managed to strip the soul away from that one as well. All of the tracks seem exactly as Bob Ezrin described, like they've been painted over one too many times. Probably an audiophile's wet dream if you have good headphones and can pick apart each layer in the songs.

Yeah I recently heard the new Oh my god... And it definitely isn't as good as the released version.

I think we all hope there's better stuff in the vault

[alfa75]

Has anyone heard “The General” with vocals?

[WhazUp]

34 minutes ago, alfa75 said:

Has anyone heard “The General” with vocals?

The closest anyone publicly has come to that is that 2 minute barely audible cell phone clip that a fan recorded in around 2010 I believe, which has vocals but the quality is primitive so you can't really make anything out. 

 

[jamillos]

8 hours ago, WhazUp said:

The closest anyone publicly has come to that is that 2 minute barely audible cell phone clip that a fan recorded in around 2010 I believe, which has vocals but the quality is primitive so you can't really make anything out. 

 

Huh? There's a 5ish minute song on YT including the long intro. There are vocals and guitars, and it's almost better than the whole Village thing. Evader mix I believe. 

[WhazUp]

7 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Huh? There's a 5ish minute song on YT including the long intro. There are vocals and guitars, and it's almost better than the whole Village thing. Evader mix I believe. 

That isn't the actual song per say though, that is just Evader's own personal approximation and creative liberties trying to use the Chinese Democracy vocal stems, the 2006 orchestra only audio, and his own recording to emulate what can be made out from the cell recording

I agree it does sound good, and he did a great job with making it, but it is only a fan taking what elements can be heard from the recording, and emulating that while using their mind to fill in the rest of it so to me it shouldn't be taken as gospel or as what the actual composition is going to be like verbatim

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by WhazUp

[jamillos]

3 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

That isn't the actual song per say though, that is just Evader's own personal approximation and creative liberties trying to use the Chinese Democracy vocal stems, the 2006 orchestra only audio, and his own recording to emulate what can be made out from the cell recording

I agree it does sound good, and he did a great job with making it, but it is only a fan taking what elements can be heard from the recording, and emulating that while using their mind to fill in the rest of it so to me it shouldn't be taken as gospel or as what the actual composition is going to be like verbatim

 

I did not know this. It sounds awesome, though. 

[WhazUp]

Just now, jamillos said:

I did not know this. It sounds awesome, though. 

Yeah he did a great job for sure, like you said in your last post and I agree with this too, I actually think it is stronger sonically than the vast majority of the Village Session leaks lol

What Evader was able to do with those CD vocal stems to manipulate the pitch and syllables in a cohesive way is nothing short of amazing and I don't even know if AI tech at this point was commercially available to assist like it could be nowadays

[alfa75]

9 hours ago, WhazUp said:

The closest anyone publicly has come to that is that 2 minute barely audible cell phone clip that a fan recorded in around 2010 I believe, which has vocals but the quality is primitive so you can't really make anything out. 

 

Thanks. What about Oklahoma? Sorry, if this is common knowledge here, but I haven’t really been following this since this recent Perhaps incident.

[SoulMonster]

46 minutes ago, alfa75 said:

Thanks. What about Oklahoma? Sorry, if this is common knowledge here, but I haven’t really been following this since this recent Perhaps incident.

Never heard anyone claiming to have heard Berlin (which was the latest known working title to Oklahoma).

The fact that it got a new working title some time between 2000 (when it was Oklahoma) to 2008 (when it was Berlin), with Axl saying it was likely to change name again, indicates that it was worked on after 2000 and that Axl intended to work more on it in 2008, which implies it was not finished then, either. So Berlin is clearly a song that have been worked on over multiple years, but who knows if it has been finished or even received vocals at any point. That being said, Axl had probably started on lyrics back before 2000 (inspired by the Oklahoma bombings), and likely worked more on lyrics since the working title changed at some point to Berlin (inspired by what, exactly? Whether those lyrics have been put to tape is a whole different question. 

[alfa75]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

Never heard anyone claiming to have heard Berlin (which was the latest known working title to Oklahoma).

The fact that it got a new working title some time between 2000 (when it was Oklahoma) to 2008 (when it was Berlin), with Axl saying it was likely to change name again, indicates that it was worked on after 2000 and that Axl intended to work more on it in 2008, which implies it was not finished then, either. So Berlin is clearly a song that have been worked on over multiple years, but who knows if it has been finished or even received vocals at any point. That being said, Axl had probably started on lyrics back before 2000 (inspired by the Oklahoma bombings), and likely worked more on lyrics since the working title changed at some point to Berlin (inspired by what, exactly? Whether those lyrics have been put to tape is a whole different question. 

I am then genuinely perplexed. I have DEFINITELY heard a song that I cannot identify. With lyrics/vocals and what could be the instrumentation from Beltrami. Can anyone help me identify this. It’s labeled “The General” but since there is no name mentioned in the chorus, I don’t know what it is. 7 minutes long if that helps.

[RONIN]

18 hours ago, BassistSeb said:

This mirrors my thoughts pretty much. I feel the bottom line is that Chinese could have been a double album with some filler if the songs released in 2008 were spread over two albums. However, with what's left it'd be a weak follow up. I think Atlas was the biggest surprise to me in that I saw why it was left off as it's similar to Catcher and Street of Dreams and Perhaps has a similar vibe as well. I guess it shows why Axl wasn't too keen to release a follow up and I feel he knew he needed some more songs. I've always wondered if DJ was hired more for his writing than his guitar playing - he'd co-written SOLA and The Heroin Diaries with Nikki Sixx and the latter had some radio singles. 

Exactly. I'm stunned by how mediocre this material is. Just the Crash Diet demo alone kills this stuff. There's a reason he was able to hire A-list players initially for CD (based on his previous reputation) but was unable to retain them.  Can you imagine Jimmy Iovine or one of those Interscope execs asking to listen to some of these demos and then that "macdaddy" song is played for them? He punk'd these execs plain and simple. Axl had the worst case of writer's block and was collecting huge multi-million dollar advances - not to mention getting unlimited time in state of the art recording studios with the best instruments on earth at his disposal, and whatever blank check perks the record label had been bankrolling for a decade before they cut him off the tab in 2004. These leaks actually complete some missing pieces of the story. That there was very likely only enough juice in 14 years for 1 solid album. Maybe we're both wrong and Soul Monster, Thyme, Oklahoma, The General, etc are classics. Personally, I'm skeptical...

DJ was hired out of desperation because Axl no longer had the credibility to hire A-listers for his touring band. He didn't want to collab on material with either DJ or Bumble because their writing contributions were subpar - they themselves have said that material went nowhere. Axl blew it by losing all that A-list talent from the 90's/early 00's. Once you get into a studio with guys like Bucket and Freese and you can't produce the goods, they're out the door and that's what happened. How many amazing players left the band or did not want to stick around after a couple auditions? This all really challenges the "Axl is Guns N' Roses" myth. He's a vital part of the band but not the maestro he thinks he is (imho).

Quote

Chinese 1: More Industrial/Experimental

1. Chinese 2. Riad 3. Scraped 4. Absurd 5. Shackler's 6. Ten Percenter 7. Eye on You 8. State of Grace 9. Madagascar 10. Me & My Elvis 11. Sorry 12. If the World

Chinese 2: More Traditional

1. Hard Skool 2. Oklahoma 3. IRS 4. Catcher 5. SoD 6. TiL 7. Atlas 8. Perhaps 9. Prostitute 10. Going Down 11. Better 12. There Was a Time 

That would have been a cool way to break it up IF any of these leaks had been worthy of release (jury is still out). I'd lean towards the experimental purely for Sorry and If the World (my favorite tracks from CD) even if the more traditional track listing is probably more consistent. But really, I feel like calling these tracks "experimental" might be a bit overstated. I don't really think Axl was pushing the envelope that far in any of the CD tracks. It seems like standard GnR fare to my ears with a late 90s/early 00's influence. I suppose the industrial elements and hip hop beats could throw an AFD/Lies fan for a loop but most of us who enjoyed UYI were already primed for them pushing their sound further into different styles. I wish Axl had left My World as an instrumental bonus track without the cheesy vocals - if you strip the vocals out retroactively, UYI 2 nicely segues into CD.

My own perfect CD tracklist would be:

1. Oh My God, 2 Shackler's, 3. If The World, 4.Catcher in the Rye (May), 5. The Blues, 6.Better, 7.There was a Time, 8. Sorry, 9. Prostitute. Bonus track: This I Love 

Quote

The thing is, had something come out along those lines I feel that the music press wouldn't have been kind to the record(s). There's a lot of padding and things like Absurd, Eye on You and State of Grace would have been received poorly. There's also the issue of a lot of the ballads sounding similar. Having said that, I'd have loved that had that come out in 2008. As a kid I was disappointed that I'd heard most of the album already and was at least expecting a double album. Whilst there's more filler, it would have seemed more in keeping with the amount of music I was expecting. Plus, the band could have incorporated more of their 'own' stuff into the set as it were. I mean, Tommy's solo spot could have been a GN'R song! The problem with releasing all the best stuff at once was that there wasn't really anywhere for the rest to go without some more writing. That being said, I find it funny that the band are just putting out singles now and again now as that was a trend way back in the late 00s/early 2010s. The Smashing Pumpkins were putting out individual songs as and when in the Teargarden era so it would have actually worked better as an approach back then I feel and would have gotten around the fact that there wasn't enough stuff for a cohesive album. 

I think you're right, if Axl had released a double album with tracks like these leaks, he would have been clobbered and rightfully so. Atlas or whichever song has the "how to be a man" lyrics is simply dreadful. I don't think any of these tracks can be salvaged except "Nothing" so I'm not too torn up that they never were properly released. In fact, going by the mistakes they made on UYI with too much filler material released, for me, I'm glad only the strongest CD material made the cut. They could have probably cut more tracks from the final tracklisting for an even stronger album given that a lot of this stuff had already leaked anyway.  Riad, Scraped, etc are b-sides that shouldn't have been on the album. Maybe all these leaks could have been released on a CD boxset, that would have nicely closed the book on that whole era while keeping expectations in check. I think unfortunately for many of us, a lot of these unreleased tracks have been built up in our minds for so many years, that at this point you expect nothing short of exceptional material. The standards are raised so high because of Axl's excellent track record in the past.

I actually like that they are putting singles out with this material - a perfect strategy. If this stuff was released in an album, it would just tarnish the brand. Released as a throwaway single without much fanfare seems like the correct way to go here.

On a final note....these Village leaks give me the impression that Axl was more interested in playing around with pro-tools and creating soundcapes/textures, than actually putting together a finished song. It seems like a lot of random experimentation without purpose or focus. It's like he's trying to do the Trent Reznor thing but cannot find a creative muse so all this stuff just meanders and feels half baked. I guess it also explains Axl's interest in film scores- he prefers making instrumental music.

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by RONIN

[rumandraisin]

I think, sadly, the reality is there was intention for the follow up to CD to be filled with epics like Estranged but the muse never came for Axl. Aside from The General and however much he did of Soul Monster, the rest was stuff like Absurd and Omg, Atlas and Perhaps. It's apparent now there just wasn't much leftover. Probably dozens more instrumentals but so little vocally. 

I do think now that if all these legendary tracks were sitting around like Seven, Thyme and so on with vocals they'd have been out. Either long ago in 2010 or at least before Absurd or Hard Skool. I have no faith that what's left isn't much different to the locker leaks. 

As for Soul Monster Axl did say he'd recorded a bridge but knowing how he did vocals for the other leftovers a bridge is probably 30 percent of the song. A verse, bridge and chorus repeated 3 times is the preferred method for recording vocals clearly. 

With every song released we're getting closer to the well drying up. 

[Dummy]

11 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

 

I do think now that if all these legendary tracks were sitting around like Seven, Thyme and so on with vocals they'd have been out. Either long ago in 2010 or at least before Absurd or Hard Skool. I have no faith that what's left isn't much different to the locker leaks. 

As for Soul Monster Axl did say he'd recorded a bridge but knowing how he did vocals for the other leftovers a bridge is probably 30 percent of the song. A verse, bridge and chorus repeated 3 times is the preferred method for recording vocals clearly. 

 

Nah. I think that the best songs like the general and seven and soul monster are saved for later.

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, alfa75 said:

I am then genuinely perplexed. I have DEFINITELY heard a song that I cannot identify. With lyrics/vocals and what could be the instrumentation from Beltrami. Can anyone help me identify this. It’s labeled “The General” but since there is no name mentioned in the chorus, I don’t know what it is. 7 minutes long if that helps.

Probably that fan-made thing.

[IzzysMissy]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

  Can you imagine Jimmy Iovine or one of those Interscope execs asking to listen to some of these demos and then that "macdaddy" song is played for them? He punk'd these execs plain and simple. Axl had the worst case of writer's block and was collecting huge multi-million dollar advances - not to mention getting unlimited time in state of the art recording studios with the best instruments on earth at his disposal, and whatever blank check perks the record label had been bankrolling for a decade before they cut him off the tab in 2004.

Spot on as usual - your Jimmy iovine line made me think of that EPIC Sigourney Weaver/Dana Harvey/Phil Hartman SNL sketch “Choppin Broccoli”

anyone else old enough to remember?
 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by IzzysMissy
Updated with the full sketch! Classic funny AF SNL perfection!!

[alfa75]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

Probably that fan-made thing.

Ok, I wasn’t aware of its existence. Sounds pretty convincing I must say.