Tommy Stinson: Chinese Democracy "kinda got yanked from Axl's hands a little bit prematurely"

[maynard]

Just now, Silent Jay said:

@maynard That means you like Sorry - I.R.S. ?

What? Ohh right, I totally forgot about them

Sorry - Hilarious lyrics + that ending makes me sure it's a not meant to be taken seriously song. Probably an in-joke. Sounds like one.

IRS - Hilarious lyrics and bad vocals for most of the time. Can't believe it took Axl more than a decade to write such simple and uninteresting songs.

There you have it...

Bonus track: Oh My God - the only Axl solo song with balls. Too bad...

[Rovim]

17 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Listen, just cuz i didn't have a woman fit about it doesn't mean that you didn't do it or say it, i don't care and you did, thats the only difference.

It's at this point that it begins to get childish, no a key change is not radical or substantial or outside the bounds of generic rock music, you can argue that all day long but it won't make you right.  And the other things you cite are periphery basically, I'll grant you that they are somewhat departures from the absolutely ridgid definition of a classic rock song structure but they are not something that any number of artists haven't done before and you don't hear them being sung up as come kind of unique quality or massive departure from typical structure.  There are songs on Nevermind the Bollocks that don't have a chorus either, a song anyway, thats an album that I would consider, broadly speaking, to be quite common in terms of structure.  None of this constitutes a departure from classic rock.  These are just basic rock songs that someone who apparently writes as a rock performer and then goes 'hmm, what can i do with these to make em 'different'?  That kind of charlatanism (and it only becomes charlatanism when fans like you try to make something of it that it isn't, cuz Axl ain't pushed that shit) always shows through because you find yourself in discussions like these with people arguing over insubstantial minutia and generally having a hard time conveying what is revolutionary about the piece in question becaaaaaaause, our survey says, there ain't nothin'.

not a chorus...not REALLY a chorus...not a traditional GnR chorus', you've wonderfully illustrated the point i was trying to make in my last paragraph   In short, they are basically choruses and you're trying to accentuate minutia to make a bigger thing of something that basically amounts to 'it's got a chorus with a mildly different melodic quality', which comes firmly under the banner of 'insubstantial'.

A woman fit? lol. You question the fact that I like an album. Came up with bullshit reasons why I don't actually like it. Look... I'm gonna stop it right here cause I internet love you. Nothing good can come of this. You're still wrong about the choruses though. I'll only say not every tune even has a chorus and it's a big part of verse/chorus/verse and your argument.

 

[auad]

After nine years...

Here we are..talking about CD

[Good, Fuck'n, Night.]

10 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

It's just straight forward verse chorus verse stuff, with solos...saturated with guitars and in some instances some kind of fuckin' out of the way motif that sounds lazily slapped across it to make you go 'ooh, this sounds a little trip hop'.  It's uninspired at best and phoney at worst.  It's dilettante shit of the worst kind.  

That is a great description & very much how I feel about the album / music. 

Honestly, it bucket put a solo over this & Pitman added some sub base it would fit on CD.

 

Edited January 24, 2017 by Good, Fuck'n, Night.

[BorderlineCrazy]

10 minutes ago, Good, Fuck'n, Night. said:

That is a great description & very much how I feel about the album / music. 

Honestly, it bucket put a solo over this & Pitman added some sub base it would fit on CD.

 

Some people would worship Dizzy for coming up with that mean keyboard part and claim he's a better songwriter than Slash 

[EvanG]

10 hours ago, Rovim said:

You don't think it is, but it is. Cause the tunes are very different from one another. You've got If The World, Shackler's, This I Love, Sorry, and Prostitute on the same record. Only some of the tunes are not that different from UYI, but some are very different which again makes it a varied record.

Listen to Appetite and UYI, then Chinese. (not telling you to actually do it) it sounds very different. Only tunes like Street Of Dreams, I.R.S, and This I Love sound the same really. Chinese Democracy sounds kinda similar in a way and perhaps a few others.

But tunes like Shackler's, Prostitute, and Sorry you won't find on an old Guns record. Or Better. So you're mistaken.

It's not a casio memory bank, it's Axl incorporating new influences, it's not just layers of make up, it's the dna of some of the tunes that is different.

It's not as varied as you think... definitely not as varied as UYI for example. I can give you many other examples of albums which contain many different styles of music all by the same band, but you'll probably disagree anyway like you always do just for the sake of having another discussion.

[Rovim]

Just now, EvanG said:

I'm not saying CD is like an Oasis album in which most of the songs sound alike, I'll give you that, but compared to a real varied album it really isn't that varied at all. I can assure you.

I can absolutely tell you it has varied tunes, varied production, and varied Axl timbres. Thematically, it offers a diverse assortment of meaty topics.

[RussTCB]

Just had to remove about 2 1/2 pages of wildly off topic posts.

If you want to post about this interview with Tommy, please continue to do so in this thread. Otherwise, please keep the off topic / Dizzy Reed based / derailing posts out of here. Thanks.

[wasted]

Not sure if Tommy is talking about the actual music, the tracklisting, the booklet. 

If it's the music, just after CD was out, Del pressed Axl a little bit about CD II. He asked if it was finished. Axl said depends how you look at it. So that might be a take on how he sees "finished". 

[Rovim]

6 hours ago, wasted said:

Not sure if Tommy is talking about the actual music, the tracklisting, the booklet. 

If it's the music, just after CD was out, Del pressed Axl a little bit about CD II. He asked if it was finished. Axl said depends how you look at it. So that might be a take on how he sees "finished". 

He said some tunes were good, others not so much. Not 100% certain, but does sounds like he was talking about what Axl ended up using, those 14 tracks.

I also don't know if he was on board when it came to all these layers and guitar players so perhaps he thought the versions of the tunes they had before RTB came along were fine, and there were other tunes at the time of release he thought were good enough to be included compared to what the label or someone chose to go with.

Also: it's possible there were tracks there Tommy thought were ready years ago, but Axl didn't see those tunes as ready and/or newer tunes they managed to write in the mean time that Tommy was behind or just liked that remained unreleased cause of the label pushing hard to get the album out, what they had at the time that Axl considered finished, 30 mixed tracks. CD l and CD ll.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Rovim

[wasted]

3 hours ago, Rovim said:

He said some tunes were good, others not so much. Not 100% certain, but does sounds like he was talking about what Axl ended up using, those 14 tracks.

I also don't know if he was on board when it came to all these layers and guitar players so perhaps he thought the versions of the tunes they had before RTB came along were fine, and there were other tunes at the time of release he thought were good enough to be included compared to what the label or someone chose to go with.

Also: it's possible there were tracks there Tommy thought were ready years ago, but Axl didn't see those tunes as ready and/or newer tunes they managed to write in the mean time that Tommy was behind or just liked that remained unreleased cause of the label pushing hard to get the album out, what they had at the time that Axl considered finished, 30 mixed tracks. CD l and CD ll.

Tommy thought the Beavan material was fine, didn't need the instrumentation RTB brought. And he said it came down to the same songs in the end. He also said they might re-record CD II. 

I guess everyone has their take on the situation. Dj wrote 12 songs to add to the pot and was ready to jump into all that material. 

But Axl seemed to think CD II and Remix were done, so I don't know what Fortus, Dj, Tommy were working on. 

Edited January 25, 2017 by wasted

[Funky.Monkey]

From another interview with Tommy:

Speaking of reunions, Guns N’ Roses had an even more hyped comeback in 2016. Stinson was also a member of that band as they famously struggled in the studio for years, working on what ended up as the infamous 2008 album Chinese Democracy. “There were a lot of variables with the record company,” Stinson says. “[Interscope chief] Jimmy Iovine really mucked up the works quite a bit in some ways. There’s a certain thing you have to have when you work with Axl, and I don’t think we ever had the right guy. [Producer] Sean Beavan was the closest, and most of the songs on that record pretty much started and ended up with what he did.”

https://www.yahoo.com/music/after-surviving-the-replacements-and-gnr-tommy-stinson-revives-bash-pop-234957501.html

 

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, Funky.Monkey said:

From another interview with Tommy:

Speaking of reunions, Guns N’ Roses had an even more hyped comeback in 2016. Stinson was also a member of that band as they famously struggled in the studio for years, working on what ended up as the infamous 2008 album Chinese Democracy. “There were a lot of variables with the record company,” Stinson says. “[Interscope chief] Jimmy Iovine really mucked up the works quite a bit in some ways. There’s a certain thing you have to have when you work with Axl, and I don’t think we ever had the right guy. [Producer] Sean Beavan was the closest, and most of the songs on that record pretty much started and ended up with what he did.”

https://www.yahoo.com/music/after-surviving-the-replacements-and-gnr-tommy-stinson-revives-bash-pop-234957501.html

 

Axl should hire Clink again if they're gonna try to do another Guns album with Slash and Duff.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Rovim

[J Dog]

18 hours ago, Rovim said:

Axl should hire Clink again if they're gonna try to do another Guns album with Slash and Duff.

I'd go with that. Other than him I honestly don't have a clue who could fit as producer.

Jimmy Lovine, that guy is a motherfucker.

[Rovim]

Just now, J Dog said:

I'd go with that. Other than him I honestly don't have a clue who could fit as producer.

Jimmy Lovine, that guy is a motherfucker.

First of all fuck Jummy Lovine I wish him a very short life. Secondly, there is no second choice. Only Clink. (and CWeed to take part)

[loko]

Incidentally, Stinson says there's a wealth of recordings Guns N' Roses made during his tenure that have yet to be released. "There's some stuff with lyrics, some without," he says. "We did a lot of stuff that was supposed to be on Chinese Democracy – the record was meant to be more than one disc, but after spending so much time on it we just had to put an end to it. There's also stuff that was held over from [the original lineup] before they all disbanded, so there's some stuff that should someday see the light of day."

 

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/how-tommy-stinson-moved-on-from-replacements-and-gnr-w458836

[RONIN]

Would love to hear that Sean Beaven material- i bet it's way better than what ended up on Chinese Democracy. 

Oh my God, which is the only Beaven produced GnR track released, is kickass. Some great Axl lyrics and vocals. It rocks harder than anything on Chinese Democracy. If only it was given a final studio mix.

[Free Bird]

I love what Rick Rubin did with Black Sabbath's 13. A great reunion album with powerfull sound.

[Rovim]

4 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

I love what Rick Rubin did with Black Sabbath's 13. A great reunion album with powerfull sound.

Correct. don't get why black sabbath fans didn't give it more love. A fine release. don't hate on the rubin just cause it's cool.

[Silent Jay]

52 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

I love what Rick Rubin did with Black Sabbath's 13. A great reunion album with powerfull sound.

I liked 13.

But I think Rick Rubin ruined it. You don't teach Tony how to riff, or trying to redo Planet Caravan with Zeitgest.

13 shouldn't have been influenced by the first Black Sabbath album, Black Sabbath. Rubin can't bring the magic just like that, just as he wanted Ballbreaker to be Back In Black and Highway To Hell. It's dark but nothing as glorious and nostalgic as Never Say Die!

Fucking love what he did for Danzig anyway.

 

Edited January 28, 2017 by Silent Jay

[Free Bird]

3 hours ago, Silent Jay said:

I liked 13.

But I think Rick Rubin ruined it. You don't teach Tony how to riff, or trying to redo Planet Caravan with Zeitgest.

13 shouldn't have been influenced by the first Black Sabbath album, Black Sabbath. Rubin can't bring the magic just like that, just as he wanted Ballbreaker to be Back In Black and Highway To Hell. It's dark but nothing as glorious and nostalgic as Never Say Die!

Fucking love what he did for Danzig anyway.

 

Well, I don't know if Rubin tried to teach Iommy anything. All I know is I really like the result and that's actually what matters to me.

[Mendez]

Chances are they are either going to go with Caram, Eric Valentine (who Slash did all of his solo albums with), or Sean Beaven (only because it seems like everyone in the new GNR camp liked his stuff most). Or hell, maybe Axl will try his hand at self producing by himself

[default_]

4 hours ago, Free Bird said:

I love what Rick Rubin did with Black Sabbath's 13. A great reunion album with powerfull sound.

13 is great, love the record for what it is. It is modern but it also has a classic feel to it, 

 

4 hours ago, Silent Jay said:

13 shouldn't have been influenced by the first Black Sabbath album, Black Sabbath. Rubin can't bring the magic just like that, just as he wanted Ballbreaker to be Back In Black and Highway To Hell. It's dark but nothing as glorious and nostalgic as Never Say Die!

To be honest I dont think anyone can bring the "magic" from the old days back. Not only the recording, mixing and mastering process are different but also the members from these bands, their methods, their ideas and ideals, their equipment... everything. When 13 came out I was really surprised by the fact it was actually an amazing record. 

Didnt think the same of Heaven and Hell's "The Devil you may Know", for exemple. Really tought it was a generic album. 

I'd be happy with a GnR 13. 

 

[Gackt]

Speaker of producers, I'd go for Danger Mouse if a new album was to happen; I've dug his work with Black Keys, RHCP, U2.  Nick Raskulinecz is alright for heavier bands, but some of his produced albums like Alice in Chains' Black Gives Way to Blue are mixed way too loud.  Rubin's overrated.

Has Mike Clink even been active as a producer anymore?

[Silent Jay]

6 minutes ago, default_ said:

13 is great, love the record for what it is. It is modern but it also has a classic feel to it, 

 

To be honest I dont think anyone can bring the "magic" from the old days back. Not only the recording, mixing and mastering process are different but also the members from these bands, their methods, their ideas and ideals, their equipment... everything. When 13 came out I was really surprised by the fact it was actually an amazing record. 

Didnt think the same of Heaven and Hell's "The Devil you may Know", for exemple. Really tought it was a generic album. 

I'd be happy with a GnR 13. 

 

The Devil You Know is really heavy and extremely dark, but give it a chance it's a grower just as Dehumanizer.

While the first half of 13 aged awfully, the second part not: Age Of Reason, Damaged Soul, also Methademic are awesome. The End EP felt like another deluxe edition bonus disc sadly. Anyway Iommi/Geezer can't do wrong. 

 

A GnR 13 would be an awful idea. No better attempt at 'Caving in' than trying unsuccessfully another Sweet Child O' Mine or Welcome To The Jungle.