March 20th, 2014 - Rio De Janeiro, Brazil

[Amir]

Axl was proud of his band in 2006, had a purpose and drive that he's simply lost in recent years.

And as per my post above, fair enough if he wants to rest on his laurels. He's, what, 51? 52? He's earned that right, you could argue. But then there's a whole lot of other factors that go into that, and people's expectations of GN'R, that maybe he needs to account for. Especially since a lot of those expectations hinge on comments he made over the years relating to moving GN'R forward.

Well that's just it really, isn't it?

I went along for the ride you know? Axl had grande visions and was really going to take the music into the stratosphere, even if he has to alienate the original guys to do so.

One took in to consideration the best of what the guy had put on the table to date, and you thought "woah, ok, bring it".

I went to a few of the 2002 shows..Axl's back! Axl fucking Rose is back!...followed right through and even travelled to New York City for a Hammerstein show. I enjoyed every minute of it.

By the 2011 Toronto show I was looking around at the people in the section I was in, mostly a bunch of zombies with "what bullshit" looks on their faces.

A good friend of mine who followed GnR since seeing them open for the Cult bailed after that show, just flat out bailed...but he'll go to every Slash show he can.

The rock bottom for me though was the half full bar in Toronto last July, a market that used to sell out in nanoseconds for anything everything GnR related.

It was so cookie cutter and empty, it meant nothing to me...Bumblefoot and his goofy faces yeah whatever. Two plus hours of songs perfected by guys who are now biding their time in side projects while these fill in guys walk through the back catalogue of the "hits everyone wants to hear". It just really bummed me out that nothing had moved forward. I paid $150 to be reminded how cool things were 20+ years ago.

If this line up were really worth their nuts, they'd be playing 80% new material with two encores of the hits to appease. It's really how it should have been by now.

It's not all about the casual fan either. My neighbour went to a 2002 show, he was excited as hell...pretty much an original material setlist right? He left half way through and when I saw him the next day he said "who's the fuckin guy with a chicken bucket on his head?"..in a completely contemptuous tone. He was out right there and then, never went to another show.

And that's kind of the catch 22 right there, if you are going to take Guns that far in to left field, you should really have a reason for doing so. To play the hits?...no.

They should be in a fuckin studio not playing South American tour number 20.

If Chi-Dem was the only card up the sleeve, then concede that the expanded vision of GnR wasn't the next big Elton John-electronica-Queen-whatever epic extravaganza that was going to tip the music world on its collective ass. It fell...uh...somewhat short.

If the point of a GnR show, now, is to remind people of the cool tunes they used to write and the huge hits that ensued...do it with the lads that people want to see you do them with. Truth be fuckin told, what's left of the rock world would blow a collective load if the original guys (Matt or Steven) did a hits/ deep cuts tour and perhaps if there was nowhere to go from there, bowed out gracefully.

Sad thing is posts like yours and mine means we're "haters" in the eyes of Jarmo, MSL, et al. You could probably count the number of negative posts I made about GNR before 2011 on one hand with a few fingers to spare. Even since then I've tried to point out positives where possible, I got something out of each of the 5 shows I went to in 2012 even if they didn't compare any of the 6 I went to in 2010 (with the exception of Atlantic City 2012 which was better than a weaker 2010 show like Abu Dhabi, which was still fucking great). Abu Dhabi 2013, though... I had about as much energy in that show as Axl did. And I'm really trying to get myself excited for Buenos Aires, but I just can't.

[Damn_Smooth]

It still amazes me that people blame the band when everybody (especially those that post on a forum) should know who is in charge by now. Next time I go to a store and they don't have exactly what I'm looking for, I'm going to punch the cashier. I expect sympathy bail from a good amount of MYGNR posters since they can relate.

[Zint]

Axl was proud of his band in 2006, had a purpose and drive that he's simply lost in recent years.

And as per my post above, fair enough if he wants to rest on his laurels. He's, what, 51? 52? He's earned that right, you could argue. But then there's a whole lot of other factors that go into that, and people's expectations of GN'R, that maybe he needs to account for. Especially since a lot of those expectations hinge on comments he made over the years relating to moving GN'R forward.

Well that's just it really, isn't it?

I went along for the ride you know? Axl had grande visions and was really going to take the music into the stratosphere, even if he has to alienate the original guys to do so.

One took in to consideration the best of what the guy had put on the table to date, and you thought "woah, ok, bring it".

I went to a few of the 2002 shows..Axl's back! Axl fucking Rose is back!...followed right through and even travelled to New York City for a Hammerstein show. I enjoyed every minute of it.

By the 2011 Toronto show I was looking around at the people in the section I was in, mostly a bunch of zombies with "what bullshit" looks on their faces.

A good friend of mine who followed GnR since seeing them open for the Cult bailed after that show, just flat out bailed...but he'll go to every Slash show he can.

The rock bottom for me though was the half full bar in Toronto last July, a market that used to sell out in nanoseconds for anything everything GnR related.

It was so cookie cutter and empty, it meant nothing to me...Bumblefoot and his goofy faces yeah whatever. Two plus hours of songs perfected by guys who are now biding their time in side projects while these fill in guys walk through the back catalogue of the "hits everyone wants to hear". It just really bummed me out that nothing had moved forward. I paid $150 to be reminded how cool things were 20+ years ago.

If this line up were really worth their nuts, they'd be playing 80% new material with two encores of the hits to appease. It's really how it should have been by now.

It's not all about the casual fan either. My neighbour went to a 2002 show, he was excited as hell...pretty much an original material setlist right? He left half way through and when I saw him the next day he said "who's the fuckin guy with a chicken bucket on his head?"..in a completely contemptuous tone. He was out right there and then, never went to another show.

And that's kind of the catch 22 right there, if you are going to take Guns that far in to left field, you should really have a reason for doing so. To play the hits?...no.

They should be in a fuckin studio not playing South American tour number 20.

If Chi-Dem was the only card up the sleeve, then concede that the expanded vision of GnR wasn't the next big Elton John-electronica-Queen-whatever epic extravaganza that was going to tip the music world on its collective ass. It fell...uh...somewhat short.

If the point of a GnR show, now, is to remind people of the cool tunes they used to write and the huge hits that ensued...do it with the lads that people want to see you do them with. Truth be fuckin told, what's left of the rock world would blow a collective load if the original guys (Matt or Steven) did a hits/ deep cuts tour and perhaps if there was nowhere to go from there, bowed out gracefully.

Sad thing is posts like yours and mine means we're "haters" in the eyes of Jarmo, MSL, et al. You could probably count the number of negative posts I made about GNR before 2011 on one hand with a few fingers to spare. Even since then I've tried to point out positives where possible, I got something out of each of the 5 shows I went to in 2012 even if they didn't compare any of the 6 I went to in 2010 (with the exception of Atlantic City 2012 which was better than a weaker 2010 show like Abu Dhabi, which was still fucking great). Abu Dhabi 2013, though... I had about as much energy in that show as Axl did. And I'm really trying to get myself excited for Buenos Aires, but I just can't.

Same here, I was a huge supporter. It just slowly dwindled away.

[NachoLZ]

Axl was proud of his band in 2006, had a purpose and drive that he's simply lost in recent years.

And as per my post above, fair enough if he wants to rest on his laurels. He's, what, 51? 52? He's earned that right, you could argue. But then there's a whole lot of other factors that go into that, and people's expectations of GN'R, that maybe he needs to account for. Especially since a lot of those expectations hinge on comments he made over the years relating to moving GN'R forward.

Well that's just it really, isn't it?

I went along for the ride you know? Axl had grande visions and was really going to take the music into the stratosphere, even if he has to alienate the original guys to do so.

One took in to consideration the best of what the guy had put on the table to date, and you thought "woah, ok, bring it".

I went to a few of the 2002 shows..Axl's back! Axl fucking Rose is back!...followed right through and even travelled to New York City for a Hammerstein show. I enjoyed every minute of it.

By the 2011 Toronto show I was looking around at the people in the section I was in, mostly a bunch of zombies with "what bullshit" looks on their faces.

A good friend of mine who followed GnR since seeing them open for the Cult bailed after that show, just flat out bailed...but he'll go to every Slash show he can.

The rock bottom for me though was the half full bar in Toronto last July, a market that used to sell out in nanoseconds for anything everything GnR related.

It was so cookie cutter and empty, it meant nothing to me...Bumblefoot and his goofy faces yeah whatever. Two plus hours of songs perfected by guys who are now biding their time in side projects while these fill in guys walk through the back catalogue of the "hits everyone wants to hear". It just really bummed me out that nothing had moved forward. I paid $150 to be reminded how cool things were 20+ years ago.

If this line up were really worth their nuts, they'd be playing 80% new material with two encores of the hits to appease. It's really how it should have been by now.

It's not all about the casual fan either. My neighbour went to a 2002 show, he was excited as hell...pretty much an original material setlist right? He left half way through and when I saw him the next day he said "who's the fuckin guy with a chicken bucket on his head?"..in a completely contemptuous tone. He was out right there and then, never went to another show.

And that's kind of the catch 22 right there, if you are going to take Guns that far in to left field, you should really have a reason for doing so. To play the hits?...no.

They should be in a fuckin studio not playing South American tour number 20.

If Chi-Dem was the only card up the sleeve, then concede that the expanded vision of GnR wasn't the next big Elton John-electronica-Queen-whatever epic extravaganza that was going to tip the music world on its collective ass. It fell...uh...somewhat short.

If the point of a GnR show, now, is to remind people of the cool tunes they used to write and the huge hits that ensued...do it with the lads that people want to see you do them with. Truth be fuckin told, what's left of the rock world would blow a collective load if the original guys (Matt or Steven) did a hits/ deep cuts tour and perhaps if there was nowhere to go from there, bowed out gracefully.

This sums it up perfectly, why are they touring now? WHY?

[Zint]

It still amazes me that people blame the band when everybody (especially those that post on a forum) should know who is in charge by now. Next time I go to a store and they don't have exactly what I'm looking for, I'm going to punch the cashier. I expect sympathy bail from a good amount of MYGNR posters since they can relate.

Well, who's in charge goes without saying no?

I don't see any of these guys saying, right, if this is all there is, maybe it's time to move on and save a little artistic integrity.

They are a collective on certain levels.

Axl's had 20+ years to save rock and roll.

Wheeling out some meat puppets to sing AFD and Illusion songs for 2 hours with a couple of ChiDem tunes added for seasoning...it's their choice to be a part of that, year in and year out.

[Naupis]

Truth be fuckin told, what's left of the rock world would blow a collective load if the original guys (Matt or Steven) did a hits/ deep cuts tour and perhaps if there was nowhere to go from there, bowed out gracefully.

Saddest part of all is that listening to some of the new riffs Slash is coming up with the original guys could make a vicious sounding GNR record if you locked them in the studio for a month.

Poor Axl has forgotten what GNR is really supposed to sound like, and if he could ever let himself go there it would totally reinvigorate him.

[Damn_Smooth]

It still amazes me that people blame the band when everybody (especially those that post on a forum) should know who is in charge by now. Next time I go to a store and they don't have exactly what I'm looking for, I'm going to punch the cashier. I expect sympathy bail from a good amount of MYGNR posters since they can relate.

Well, who's in charge goes without saying no?

I don't see any of these guys saying, right, if this is all there is, maybe it's time to move on and save a little artistic integrity.

They are a collective on certain levels.

Axl's had 20+ years to save rock and roll.

Wheeling out some meat puppets to sing AFD and Illusion songs for 2 hours with a couple of ChiDem tunes added for seasoning...it's their choice to be a part of that, year in and year out.

It's my choice to go to my job and earn my paycheck too, I really don't think anyone should expect me to change how the company is run.

[Zint]

It still amazes me that people blame the band when everybody (especially those that post on a forum) should know who is in charge by now. Next time I go to a store and they don't have exactly what I'm looking for, I'm going to punch the cashier. I expect sympathy bail from a good amount of MYGNR posters since they can relate.

Well, who's in charge goes without saying no?

I don't see any of these guys saying, right, if this is all there is, maybe it's time to move on and save a little artistic integrity.

They are a collective on certain levels.

Axl's had 20+ years to save rock and roll.

Wheeling out some meat puppets to sing AFD and Illusion songs for 2 hours with a couple of ChiDem tunes added for seasoning...it's their choice to be a part of that, year in and year out.

It's my choice to go to my job and earn my paycheck too, I really don't think anyone should expect me to change how the company is run.

Well if that's how you view art and the creative process, ok.

[alfierose]

A few pages of really insightful discussion here. Great stuff.

[Damn_Smooth]

It still amazes me that people blame the band when everybody (especially those that post on a forum) should know who is in charge by now. Next time I go to a store and they don't have exactly what I'm looking for, I'm going to punch the cashier. I expect sympathy bail from a good amount of MYGNR posters since they can relate.

Well, who's in charge goes without saying no?

I don't see any of these guys saying, right, if this is all there is, maybe it's time to move on and save a little artistic integrity.

They are a collective on certain levels.

Axl's had 20+ years to save rock and roll.

Wheeling out some meat puppets to sing AFD and Illusion songs for 2 hours with a couple of ChiDem tunes added for seasoning...it's their choice to be a part of that, year in and year out.

It's my choice to go to my job and earn my paycheck too, I really don't think anyone should expect me to change how the company is run.

Well if that's how you view art and the creative process, ok.

There is no creative process unless the boss allows it. All of his employees that count have expressed interest in releasing things and even went as far as sending him things, but it's all in the hands of one man and his adopted family. If they aren't creatively inspiring to him it's still his fault because he has the full capability to fire them and hire someone that is. There is no way to pawn this off on anybody other than Axl and his handlers.

[classicrawker]

Truth be fuckin told, what's left of the rock world would blow a collective load if the original guys (Matt or Steven) did a hits/ deep cuts tour and perhaps if there was nowhere to go from there, bowed out gracefully.

Saddest part of all is that listening to some of the new riffs Slash is coming up with the original guys could make a vicious sounding GNR record if you locked them in the studio for a month.

Poor Axl has forgotten what GNR is really supposed to sound like, and if he could ever let himself go there it would totally reinvigorate him.

Izzy said as much in and old interview, which I can not dig up right now, when he said that he, Slash, and Duff could put together a new GnR album in a couple of weeks and all it would need is Axl's lyrics and vocals.......

[Zint]

It still amazes me that people blame the band when everybody (especially those that post on a forum) should know who is in charge by now. Next time I go to a store and they don't have exactly what I'm looking for, I'm going to punch the cashier. I expect sympathy bail from a good amount of MYGNR posters since they can relate.

Well, who's in charge goes without saying no?

I don't see any of these guys saying, right, if this is all there is, maybe it's time to move on and save a little artistic integrity.

They are a collective on certain levels.

Axl's had 20+ years to save rock and roll.

Wheeling out some meat puppets to sing AFD and Illusion songs for 2 hours with a couple of ChiDem tunes added for seasoning...it's their choice to be a part of that, year in and year out.

It's my choice to go to my job and earn my paycheck too, I really don't think anyone should expect me to change how the company is run.

Well if that's how you view art and the creative process, ok.

There is no creative process unless the boss allows it. All of his employees that count have expressed interest in releasing things and even went as far as sending him things, but it's all in the hands of one man and his adopted family. If they aren't creatively inspiring to him it's still his fault because he has the full capability to fire them and hire someone that is. There is no way to pawn this off on anybody other than Axl and his handlers.

Some might wonder why they don't leave of their own accord to pursue more creative avenues of artistic expression elsewhere.

Perhaps to Axl they are employees, I would hope that unto themselves they are musicians.

[Amir]

It still amazes me that people blame the band when everybody (especially those that post on a forum) should know who is in charge by now. Next time I go to a store and they don't have exactly what I'm looking for, I'm going to punch the cashier. I expect sympathy bail from a good amount of MYGNR posters since they can relate.

Well, who's in charge goes without saying no?

I don't see any of these guys saying, right, if this is all there is, maybe it's time to move on and save a little artistic integrity.

They are a collective on certain levels.

Axl's had 20+ years to save rock and roll.

Wheeling out some meat puppets to sing AFD and Illusion songs for 2 hours with a couple of ChiDem tunes added for seasoning...it's their choice to be a part of that, year in and year out.

It's my choice to go to my job and earn my paycheck too, I really don't think anyone should expect me to change how the company is run.

Well if that's how you view art and the creative process, ok.

There is no creative process unless the boss allows it. All of his employees that count have expressed interest in releasing things and even went as far as sending him things, but it's all in the hands of one man and his adopted family. If they aren't creatively inspiring to him it's still his fault because he has the full capability to fire them and hire someone that is. There is no way to pawn this off on anybody other than Axl and his handlers.

Some might wonder why they don't leave of their own accord to pursue more creative avenues of artistic expression elsewhere.

Perhaps to Axl they are employees, I would hope that unto themselves they are musicians.

Even Richard's made it clear he's anxious and excited to record and release music with The Dead Daisies. Bumble's got his solo songs and side projects with musicians around the world.

Pitman's made it clear he doesn't care about releasing new music.

Dizzy is as Dizzy does.

DJ Ashba^TM's happy not to bite the hand that feeds and sell the Ashba^TM Signature Hitachi Wand.

[alfierose]

I think Axl is an artist who deeply believes in the music he creates. He doesn't churn out generic sex n drugs rock for the hell of it, everything he's released is ta musical road map of his life and emotions (it's just sheer coincidence that AFD was about those things due to his age at the time). For whatever reason there is a current block in creativity, whether that's him, external forces or both.

In my opinion he knows he's phoning it in at this point, hence the lack of enthusiasm at times, the shades, hats and jackets. It's the equivalent of a dirty protest. I'm not saying he's not having fun sometimes, I'm sure Vegas is a blast but something has forced him down this nostalgia route and it seems like he is making the best of it but at the same time not giving anything of himself away. Maybe it's a self preservation method?

I think if he ever has something else to say we will know about it and it will probably knock us sideways. It's entirely possible though he may never feel the need to do that again.

[Damn_Smooth]

It still amazes me that people blame the band when everybody (especially those that post on a forum) should know who is in charge by now. Next time I go to a store and they don't have exactly what I'm looking for, I'm going to punch the cashier. I expect sympathy bail from a good amount of MYGNR posters since they can relate.

Well, who's in charge goes without saying no?

I don't see any of these guys saying, right, if this is all there is, maybe it's time to move on and save a little artistic integrity.

They are a collective on certain levels.

Axl's had 20+ years to save rock and roll.

Wheeling out some meat puppets to sing AFD and Illusion songs for 2 hours with a couple of ChiDem tunes added for seasoning...it's their choice to be a part of that, year in and year out.

It's my choice to go to my job and earn my paycheck too, I really don't think anyone should expect me to change how the company is run.

Well if that's how you view art and the creative process, ok.

There is no creative process unless the boss allows it. All of his employees that count have expressed interest in releasing things and even went as far as sending him things, but it's all in the hands of one man and his adopted family. If they aren't creatively inspiring to him it's still his fault because he has the full capability to fire them and hire someone that is. There is no way to pawn this off on anybody other than Axl and his handlers.

Some might wonder why they don't leave of their own accord to pursue more creative avenues of artistic expression elsewhere.

Perhaps to Axl they are employees, I would hope that unto themselves they are musicians.

Would you walk away from a payday like that when you are free to be a musician and pursue your own thing on your own time? Honestly?

[ZoSoRose]

It still amazes me that people blame the band when everybody (especially those that post on a forum) should know who is in charge by now. Next time I go to a store and they don't have exactly what I'm looking for, I'm going to punch the cashier. I expect sympathy bail from a good amount of MYGNR posters since they can relate.

Well, who's in charge goes without saying no?

I don't see any of these guys saying, right, if this is all there is, maybe it's time to move on and save a little artistic integrity.

They are a collective on certain levels.

Axl's had 20+ years to save rock and roll.

Wheeling out some meat puppets to sing AFD and Illusion songs for 2 hours with a couple of ChiDem tunes added for seasoning...it's their choice to be a part of that, year in and year out.

It's my choice to go to my job and earn my paycheck too, I really don't think anyone should expect me to change how the company is run.

Well if that's how you view art and the creative process, ok.

There is no creative process unless the boss allows it. All of his employees that count have expressed interest in releasing things and even went as far as sending him things, but it's all in the hands of one man and his adopted family. If they aren't creatively inspiring to him it's still his fault because he has the full capability to fire them and hire someone that is. There is no way to pawn this off on anybody other than Axl and his handlers.

Some might wonder why they don't leave of their own accord to pursue more creative avenues of artistic expression elsewhere.

Perhaps to Axl they are employees, I would hope that unto themselves they are musicians.

Even Richard's made it clear he's anxious and excited to record and release music with The Dead Daisies. Bumble's got his solo songs and side projects with musicians around the world.

Pitman's made it clear he doesn't care about releasing new music.

Dizzy is as Dizzy does.

DJ Ashba^TM's happy not to bite the hand that feeds and sell the Ashba^TM Signature Hitachi Wand.

You haven't lived until you have tried the Ashba^TM Signature Hitachi Wand. It's #demented, bro

[Zint]

It still amazes me that people blame the band when everybody (especially those that post on a forum) should know who is in charge by now. Next time I go to a store and they don't have exactly what I'm looking for, I'm going to punch the cashier. I expect sympathy bail from a good amount of MYGNR posters since they can relate.

Well, who's in charge goes without saying no?

I don't see any of these guys saying, right, if this is all there is, maybe it's time to move on and save a little artistic integrity.

They are a collective on certain levels.

Axl's had 20+ years to save rock and roll.

Wheeling out some meat puppets to sing AFD and Illusion songs for 2 hours with a couple of ChiDem tunes added for seasoning...it's their choice to be a part of that, year in and year out.

It's my choice to go to my job and earn my paycheck too, I really don't think anyone should expect me to change how the company is run.

Well if that's how you view art and the creative process, ok.

There is no creative process unless the boss allows it. All of his employees that count have expressed interest in releasing things and even went as far as sending him things, but it's all in the hands of one man and his adopted family. If they aren't creatively inspiring to him it's still his fault because he has the full capability to fire them and hire someone that is. There is no way to pawn this off on anybody other than Axl and his handlers.

Some might wonder why they don't leave of their own accord to pursue more creative avenues of artistic expression elsewhere.

Perhaps to Axl they are employees, I would hope that unto themselves they are musicians.

Would you walk away from a payday like that when you are free to be a musician and pursue your own thing on your own time? Honestly?

Isn't that a bit of a digression on the point of "blame"?

If no one calls his bluff...well, hits tour in Rio 2015..yay!

[Damn_Smooth]

It still amazes me that people blame the band when everybody (especially those that post on a forum) should know who is in charge by now. Next time I go to a store and they don't have exactly what I'm looking for, I'm going to punch the cashier. I expect sympathy bail from a good amount of MYGNR posters since they can relate.

Well, who's in charge goes without saying no?

I don't see any of these guys saying, right, if this is all there is, maybe it's time to move on and save a little artistic integrity.

They are a collective on certain levels.

Axl's had 20+ years to save rock and roll.

Wheeling out some meat puppets to sing AFD and Illusion songs for 2 hours with a couple of ChiDem tunes added for seasoning...it's their choice to be a part of that, year in and year out.

It's my choice to go to my job and earn my paycheck too, I really don't think anyone should expect me to change how the company is run.

Well if that's how you view art and the creative process, ok.

There is no creative process unless the boss allows it. All of his employees that count have expressed interest in releasing things and even went as far as sending him things, but it's all in the hands of one man and his adopted family. If they aren't creatively inspiring to him it's still his fault because he has the full capability to fire them and hire someone that is. There is no way to pawn this off on anybody other than Axl and his handlers.

Some might wonder why they don't leave of their own accord to pursue more creative avenues of artistic expression elsewhere.

Perhaps to Axl they are employees, I would hope that unto themselves they are musicians.

Would you walk away from a payday like that when you are free to be a musician and pursue your own thing on your own time? Honestly?

Isn't that a bit of a digression on the point of "blame"?

If no one calls his bluff...well, hits tour in Rio 2015..yay!

He's the boss, nobody can call his bluff. That's sort of been the point of our whole discussion. Honestly though, you should prepare yourself for hits tour 2015, because that is the only thing we will get. If we even get that.

[Zint]

It still amazes me that people blame the band when everybody (especially those that post on a forum) should know who is in charge by now. Next time I go to a store and they don't have exactly what I'm looking for, I'm going to punch the cashier. I expect sympathy bail from a good amount of MYGNR posters since they can relate.

Well, who's in charge goes without saying no?

I don't see any of these guys saying, right, if this is all there is, maybe it's time to move on and save a little artistic integrity.

They are a collective on certain levels.

Axl's had 20+ years to save rock and roll.

Wheeling out some meat puppets to sing AFD and Illusion songs for 2 hours with a couple of ChiDem tunes added for seasoning...it's their choice to be a part of that, year in and year out.

It's my choice to go to my job and earn my paycheck too, I really don't think anyone should expect me to change how the company is run.

Well if that's how you view art and the creative process, ok.

There is no creative process unless the boss allows it. All of his employees that count have expressed interest in releasing things and even went as far as sending him things, but it's all in the hands of one man and his adopted family. If they aren't creatively inspiring to him it's still his fault because he has the full capability to fire them and hire someone that is. There is no way to pawn this off on anybody other than Axl and his handlers.

Some might wonder why they don't leave of their own accord to pursue more creative avenues of artistic expression elsewhere.

Perhaps to Axl they are employees, I would hope that unto themselves they are musicians.

Would you walk away from a payday like that when you are free to be a musician and pursue your own thing on your own time? Honestly?

Isn't that a bit of a digression on the point of "blame"?

If no one calls his bluff...well, hits tour in Rio 2015..yay!

He's the boss, nobody can call his bluff. That's sort of been the point of our whole discussion. Honestly though, you should prepare yourself for hits tour 2015, because that is the only thing we will get. If we even get that.

They do have the option to walk away though, no?

[Damn_Smooth]

It still amazes me that people blame the band when everybody (especially those that post on a forum) should know who is in charge by now. Next time I go to a store and they don't have exactly what I'm looking for, I'm going to punch the cashier. I expect sympathy bail from a good amount of MYGNR posters since they can relate.

Well, who's in charge goes without saying no?

I don't see any of these guys saying, right, if this is all there is, maybe it's time to move on and save a little artistic integrity.

They are a collective on certain levels.

Axl's had 20+ years to save rock and roll.

Wheeling out some meat puppets to sing AFD and Illusion songs for 2 hours with a couple of ChiDem tunes added for seasoning...it's their choice to be a part of that, year in and year out.

It's my choice to go to my job and earn my paycheck too, I really don't think anyone should expect me to change how the company is run.

Well if that's how you view art and the creative process, ok.

There is no creative process unless the boss allows it. All of his employees that count have expressed interest in releasing things and even went as far as sending him things, but it's all in the hands of one man and his adopted family. If they aren't creatively inspiring to him it's still his fault because he has the full capability to fire them and hire someone that is. There is no way to pawn this off on anybody other than Axl and his handlers.

Some might wonder why they don't leave of their own accord to pursue more creative avenues of artistic expression elsewhere.

Perhaps to Axl they are employees, I would hope that unto themselves they are musicians.

Would you walk away from a payday like that when you are free to be a musician and pursue your own thing on your own time? Honestly?

Isn't that a bit of a digression on the point of "blame"?

If no one calls his bluff...well, hits tour in Rio 2015..yay!

He's the boss, nobody can call his bluff. That's sort of been the point of our whole discussion. Honestly though, you should prepare yourself for hits tour 2015, because that is the only thing we will get. If we even get that.

They do have the option to walk away though, no?

They sure do. If they aren't happy with the paycheck they get for working a couple months a year, they can do whatever they want.

[gunsguy]

Say all the guys walk away... Do you honestly think Axl will just go over to the old band and ask them to join him and everything will be peachy?

He is not interested in that, without him....

anyway like you I have had my ups and downs with the band since they split, however I still feel they will do something, call my naive

Edited March 22, 2014 by gunsguy

[Amir]

Fans are walking away, though, not just in Toronto.

Let's look at Rio and Buenos Aires, possibly the 2 biggest markets.

2010:

Rio: 20,609 / 35,000

Buenos Aires: 35,814 / 43,249

A hell of a lot more tickets than they could sell anywhere else, not bad.

Come 2011, though, they're playing a venue for around 20,000 in Buenos Aires.

2014, they can't sell out 13,500 tickets for Rio, and they're just doing one show in Argentina, in an EVEN SMALLER venue than 2011, which still hasn't sold out.

[Estranged Reality]

Zint Is on a roll. Lots of spot on comments imo and also reflect my own feelings to a degree although I'm still holding out a fraction of hope for... Something.

[Zint]

Say all the guys walk away... Do you honestly think Axl will just go over to the old band and ask them to join him and everything will be peachy?

Pipe dreams mate.

Not exactly holding out for a miracle.

If it did happen though, it would be huge and you know it..

[Damn_Smooth]

Fans are walking away, though, not just in Toronto.

Let's look at Rio and Buenos Aires, possibly the 2 biggest markets.

2010:

Rio: 20,609 / 35,000

Buenos Aires: 35,814 / 43,249

A hell of a lot more tickets than they could sell anywhere else, not bad.

Come 2011, though, they're playing a venue for around 20,000 in Buenos Aires.

2014, they can't sell out 13,500 tickets for Rio, and they're just doing one show in Argentina, in an EVEN SMALLER venue than 2011, which still hasn't sold out.

What were ticket prices for each year? I seem to recall a recent thread stating that they were exceedingly high this year. Can you confirm or deny?